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Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

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29 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

Look at any trailer which has a character creator in it. Saints row, Mass Effect, Wrestling games. They all show off their creators with a huge diverse range.

SEGA's marketing sucks generally speaking, so I could totally believe the creator is at least marginally more interesting than what they've shown off.

29 minutes ago, blazefan519 said:

Didn't the stream on Thurday say there were more body type options tho?

Case in point (maybe).

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1 hour ago, Sonikko said:

Mario has much more personality nowadays than Sonic. It always had personality in the first place, Sonic was just "coolest", in the West at least.

*Way past cool

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22 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

If I was in Sega's position I wouldn't be doing either.

But if I had to do one, I would've tried to make a better one than this.

I agree. Of course, Sega aren't exactly known for making the smartest or most optimal decisions for Sonic. Though that post you linked makes me wonder if Sega's going to throw other characters in as DLC for the CaC or something. It'd be kind of a scummy tactic but I'd have no issue shelling out money for Shadow, Rouge or Omega.. 

 

 

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I've noticed something...

I really don't think it's Forces ITSELF being blasted on per-se.

I think the game is being tarnished by receptions not because of what it's doing, but WHO is doing it.

If it were the equivalent of Whitehead and his team making Forces, by and large I'd think most of what it's doing would be fairly energetically received as it's not what's in the game, it's the fear of the competency of what it's going for and those behind what it's going for.

The negativity toward Forces is misguided/perceived incorrectly I think. It's more of a "Why are these people still making the games?" rather than "Why is Sonic doing this?" basically.

Though that's something I could be wholeheartedly wrong about.

Think about BOOM and Big Red Button initially. Having new people behind Sonic is something that gives consumers a big sense of relief. If the product follows suit in the end, people are even more welcoming toward new folks behind the series, ala Mania.

Though the negative affect this has would be consumers developing even more of an intolerant mindset toward the products from those delivering the less favored titles.

So... Sticky situation. To put it frankly, Sonic Team is entering Big Red Button's shoes now.

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4 minutes ago, Clewis said:

Correct.

People aren't impressed with Forces because it's not doing anything impressive, not because Sonic Team's at the helm. It's not like Colors and Generations got the same reception Forces is getting now. Those games still got a decent amount of praise despite Sonic Team's tarnished reputation.

Sadly the Colors title could still be considered a lucky fluke that happened to land at the ultimate time.

In regards to Generations, the praise was just initial for the most part. It didn't take long for its faults and shortness to become a big problem. Not on S4 levels mind you, but the acclaim didn't last, certainly not as long as Colors by any means which has taken until just recently to sour in folks mouths.

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1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

No it is absolutely Forces itself that is being blasted, which should be very obvious to anyone who has read even a few pages of this thread.

"Initially" is the only point that RoL was given any leeway, yes, in part because BRB were an unknown element at the time. But as more actual footage started to drop and it became more and more clear what the game was, it didn't matter who was behind it. It was a shitty game, and BRB being a new team without the kind of baggage Sonic Team has had no effect on people judging the game. Likewise, that Forces is made by Sonic Team may have made people skeptical from the start, but if it actually looked good, people would acknowledge it. The problem is that it doesn't look good, regardless of who's responsible for it.

I think it DOES look good personally. The execution is the issue for me. I don't mind the game plays at all, deep down I love them, they're just not being done right. It's a matter of incompetence mixed with my own muddled opinions of those behind it, and this could be a likewise sentiment for many.

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If you have issues with the execution, describe the gameplay as "not being done right", and call it "a matter of incompetence", I'm not sure under what measure you think it looks good. Ultimately though that's your opinion and you're free to have it. But don't go projecting your issues with Sonic Team onto everyone else without any kind of evidence. Many people throughout this thread have made it very clear that they have issues with what is in the game, down to making specific complaints about things in the game, so it should be very clear that this is not just an issue with hating on Sonic Team.

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1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

If you have issues with the execution, describe the gameplay as "not being done right", and call it "a matter of incompetence", I'm not sure under what measure you think it looks good. Ultimately though that's your opinion and you're free to have it. But don't go projecting your issues with Sonic Team onto everyone else without any kind of evidence. Many people throughout this thread have made it very clear that they have issues with what is in the game, down to making specific complaints about things in the game, so it should be very clear that this is not just an issue with hating on Sonic Team.

Oh, believe me I'm aware. It's just one potential issue of the many that exist. In my own way it was my intention to defend Forces itself with the claim that the hate on the game itself could be stemming from other things and not so much the fault of the title alone.

Forces is stuck in a very... Complicated situation at the moment. There are issues with the execution of the game plays within it, issues with who's behind it, issues with what's in it, issues with WHERE is in it even, and to top it off, Mania is a thing that SEGA consistently screams being "Proudly Presenting" while Forces...

They seem... Scared of it... They WANT to get it out there and for it to sell enough to profit from, but... There's just something missing, even in the advertisement of the title.

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27 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

In regards to Generations, the praise was just initial for the most part.

Are we not talking about initial reactions primarily? It's not like Forces has been released and people are giving their honest thoughts on the final product.

During the initial reveal periods for Colors and Generations people liked what they saw and gave it appropriate praise, despite Sonic Team's past screw ups. Hell, similar reactions were even given during Lost World's reveal (even though it looked completely different), because of how Sonic Team handled Colors and Generations.

Obviously the same can't be said about Forces, but it's not because people know Sonic Team's involved, it's because of the game itself. The past 400 pages haven't been spent primarily lambasting the game solely because Sonic Team's developing it, after all.

I mean, there's a reason Forces' initial teaser advertised that it was being developed by the same people who made Colors and Generations.

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1 minute ago, Clewis said:

Are we not talking about initial reactions primarily? It's not like Forces has been released and people are giving their honest thoughts on the final product.

During the initial reveal periods for Colors and Generations people liked what they saw and gave it appropriate praise, despite Sonic Team's past screw ups. Hell, similar reactions were even given during Lost World's reveal (even though it looked completely different), because of how Sonic Team handled Colors and Generations.

Obviously the same can't be said about Forces, but it's not because people know Sonic Team's involved, it's because of the game itself. The past 400 pages haven't been spent primarily lambasting the game solely because Sonic Team's developing it, after all.

I mean, there's a reason Forces' initial teaser advertised that it was being developed by the same people who made Colors and Generations.

I'm actually talking more about post-release and in consumers hands, not really during the advertising time-span. Though that IS included nonetheless.

It's like I said however, it seems like a combination of both. It's many things revolving the game itself, and those behind it aren't helping, especially with the most recent writer revelation causing a fiasco all its own.

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13 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

I'm actually talking more about post-release and in consumers hands, not really during the advertising time-span.

I'd still say the general reception towards those games are positive, even after release. Yeah, I've read recent posts on here and a few other places that explain how flawed both games are (and I agree with most of them), but it's not like people's views on the games have suddenly flipped to the point where they're now considered nothing more than mediocre schlock like Lost World.

Again:

17 minutes ago, Clewis said:

there's a reason Forces' initial teaser advertised that it was being developed by the same people who made Colors and Generations.

 

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2 minutes ago, Clewis said:

I'd still say the general reception towards those games are positive, even after release. Yeah, I've read recent posts on here and a few other places that explain how flawed both games are (and I agree with most of them), but it's not people's views on the games have suddenly flipped to the point where they're now considered nothing more than mediocre schlock like Lost World.

Again:

 

As someone who enjoyed Unleashed it seems to me that game would be the bigger one to promote as having worked on. Though then again I suppose I'm one of the few who consider it far above and beyond Colors and Generations combined in terms of game play, plot and overall depth.

I haven't spent anywhere near as much time with Colors nor' Generations as I have with Unleashed, it's still the game I go back to as far as Modern titles go.

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2 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

As someone who enjoyed Unleashed it seems to me that game would be the bigger one to promote as having worked on.

That's nice, but it doesn't change the general reception Unleashed currently holds compared to its two sequels, which makes it obvious as to why they would be promoted instead.

I'm going to stop now considering we've blatantly wandered off from the initial subject.

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1 minute ago, Clewis said:

That's nice, but it doesn't change the general reception Unleashed currently holds compared to its two sequels, which makes it obvious as to why they would be promoted instead.

I'm going to stop now considering we've blatantly wandered off from the initial subject.

I won't deny the general reception revolving the whole "werehog" aspect of the game, but it would be nice if Forces offers the same depth, if not more-so ala various concepts from Unleashed such as various hubs, countless missions pertaining to these hubs, unlockables like clips, art, music...

The whole "werehog" thing aside, I do hope Forces takes note of everything else Unleashed did.

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Saying we're bashing the game because it's developed by Sonic Team is nonsense. If the game looked good or at least proved that the team behind it had some understanding of the franchise they're working on, I wouldn't have cared about who's developing it. I just want a great 3D game, I want to see Sonic shine in 3D as much as he does in 2D.

I mean, this game is the first entry in the series that manages to piss off almost everyone, classic fans are upset, modern fans are upset (a lot of them). Who's it pleasing in the first place?

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    Honestly, I just think Sonic Team isn't very confident in Forces, and I feel that could be a detriment to the game in the long run. Classic Sonic is back despite his novelty already wearing off and Mania making his presence in Forces redundant. Original the Character seems fine enough, it's new territory for the franchise so we'll have to see how it plays out.

But I feel like with all these playstyles the game could end up having a major lack of focus, with all three playstyles only being decent. This is, again, due to Sega's lack of confidence in one style and attempts to appeal to different parts of the fanbase. But rather than making one amazing playstyle, they choose to make three and they'll all be worn thin in the long run.

I still think Forces will be decent. But it'll be only that.

    

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4 hours ago, Sonikko said:

I mean, this game is the first entry in the series that manages to piss off almost everyone, classic fans are upset, modern fans are upset (a lot of them). Who's it pleasing in the first place?

Ironically, all of the fans.

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4 hours ago, Sonikko said:

Saying we're bashing the game because it's developed by Sonic Team is nonsense. If the game looked good or at least proved that the team behind it had some understanding of the franchise they're working on, I wouldn't have cared about who's developing it. I just want a great 3D game, I want to see Sonic shine in 3D as much as he does in 2D.

I mean, this game is the first entry in the series that manages to piss off almost everyone, classic fans are upset, modern fans are upset (a lot of them). Who's it pleasing in the first place?

New fans.

And you say this like nobody likes this game, come on, outside SSMB people are very interested in Forces.

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34 minutes ago, Joseph Mello said:

New fans.

And you say this like nobody likes this game, come on, outside SSMB people are very interested in Forces.

SSMB is a minority as far as opinions on Forces go. Sure there are people outside of here who don't care for it. But the general public impressions have positive, if not optimistic overall

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