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Badnik Mechanic

Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

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I barely understand why people still care about whether it's a main game, spin off, canon, non canon.
I find it increasingly more difficult to see the diffrence. The entire franchise is bouncing all over the place like mad.

Considering Sonic Mania, a low budget digital subgame made by a small team of relative indy developers is one of the most SONIC-ey Sonic games we had in a while is saying something. And the constant Meta Wink WInk atmosphere in and out of the games is making everything melt together in one giant soup as well.

Whatever man, at this point Sonic School house is just as legit as Sonic Forces far as far as I'm concerned.
I gave up on the idea of fighting for what's canon or "real" anymore, saves a lot of a headache. It's clear the team is way more focused on experimenting and finding some kind of magical super formula to re-invent Sonic with then having any kind of cohesive framework for the series.

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10 hours ago, Joseph Mello said:

New fans.

And you say this like nobody likes this game, come on, outside SSMB people are very interested in Forces.

 

10 hours ago, ZinogreVolt said:

SSMB is a minority as far as opinions on Forces go. Sure there are people outside of here who don't care for it. But the general public impressions have positive, if not optimistic overall

They did lose my pre-order, and I'm sure many others won't buy this game at launch either, all longtime Sonic fans. It's the first time in 15+ years I won't buy a Sonic game day one. I can't be alone in this.

I didn't buy the Sonic Boom games at launch either, and we've seen how those went, I'm sure that if you take out old Sonic fans from the equation the fanbase is not that huge. By old I don't necessarily mean 2D Sonic fans, even people that came in during the early 2000s.

I have pre-ordered Mania twice, one collector's for the Switch, and I spent 100€ for that on Amazon.co.uk, proving that when the game is right I'm more than willing to support it. I also bought the Steam edition. I want to send a clear message to SEGA.

 

Besides, I'm scrolling through Youtube comments on the OC reveal trailer, and the majority are meme comments, or people saying "they don't know what they've unleashed". Even under positive comments people are spamming and saying that OCs are bad. 

On the modern gameplay trailer there are a couple of positive comments, 80% are comments of people bashing people bashing the game, and the rest are people actually bashing the game.

The classic trailer is full of negative comments.

I don't think this is positive reception guys. The same happened on NeoGAF and within my real life friends group, same reactions, not all necessarily Sonic fans.

I think it's fair to say that this game is not widely rated as awesome or good even.

I repeat what I've said countless times. I don't want a 1:1 recreation of Classic Sonic in 3D, even if I'd absolutely LOVE that, if a game looks good then I'll be happy with it. Forces doesn't. It's OK at best, if I really want to be optimist about it.

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Of course people are going to poke fun at the idea of Sonic OCs actually being a thing in Forces given the incredible stigma surrounding them. But there are far fewer people outright opposed to the idea than people who think it's silly, but could be fun nontheless (myself included).

 I mean, Forces might not have the level of hype surrounding Mania. But public interest in the game is cautiously optimistic at worst from what I've gauged, unless you want to argue semantics.

tl;dr There are more people going 'Don't screw it up Sega' than 'Wow, Sega screwed up.'

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1 minute ago, ZinogreVolt said:

Of course people are going to poke fun at the idea of Sonic OCs actually being a thing in Forces given the incredible stigma surrounding them. But there are far fewer people outright opposed to the idea than people who think it's silly, but could be fun nontheless (myself included).

 I mean, Forces might not have the level of hype surrounding Mania. But public interest in the game is cautiously optimistic at worst from what I've gauged, unless you want to argue semantics.

tl;dr There are more people going 'Don't screw it up Sega' than 'Wow, Sega screwed up.'

I understand what you're saying, it's just that the majority of comments I've seen have been more on the negative side than the positive one. Even the neutral comments just sound like they're making fun of Sonic because memes. I don't know if those people are actually interested in the games or just like to poke fun at it.

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8 minutes ago, Sonikko said:

I understand what you're saying, it's just that the majority of comments I've seen have been more on the negative side than the positive one. Even the neutral comments just sound like they're making fun of Sonic because memes. I don't know if those people are actually interested in the games or just like to poke fun at it.

 

That's fair, I guess its really all dependant on who you talk to and where you hang out on the internet. Either way I guess it doesn't really matter as far as our own outlooks on the game are concerned.

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If we're still talking about views of Sonic Forces, I've seen a mixture of both. On YouTube, depending on which video you go on, it's either positive or negative. But on the neutral videos, like the OC trailer on the official Sonic the Hedgehog channel, for the most part I've seen positive. I find most of the negative comments scarcely in the positives or in videos talking about the game negatively. That's just what I see, though.

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1 minute ago, JackIsInTheStadium said:

Tl;dr but the custom characters were what most of the Sonic fans wanted, nowadays they hate on everything SEGA does.

I wouldn't most fans did. Sure there were some, but that seems like an exaggeration. Same for the hate.

I'd say most fans aren't opposed to it, not that they wanted it per se.

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3 minutes ago, blazefan519 said:

I wouldn't most fans did. Sure there were some, but that seems like an exaggeration. Same for the hate.

I'd say most fans aren't opposed to it, not that they wanted it per se.

Okay, I kinda made a mistake there, I didn't mean the fans Wanted it to actually happen, I meant that they were making Fan Characters cause that's what they like to do, and SEGA thought of making it a thing in the game they are making, which just makes the fans angry instead of happy, well there is at least some fans that is happy about this.

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17 minutes ago, JackIsInTheStadium said:

Tl;dr but the custom characters were what most of the Sonic fans wanted, nowadays they hate on everything SEGA does.

 

9 minutes ago, JackIsInTheStadium said:

Okay, I kinda made a mistake there, I didn't mean the fans Wanted it to actually happen, I meant that they were making Fan Characters cause that's what they like to do, and SEGA thought of making it a thing in the game they are making, which just makes the fans angry instead of happy, well there is at least some fans that is happy about this.

I am not making fan characters, am I not allowed to say I don't like them or does that cancel my fan status?

I've given what I consider deep analysis of why I don't think Forces is going to be a good game, and what I don't like about it.

I'm just so tired of hearing that we hate on everything SEGA does. Almost nobody hated Generations because it was a great game, flawed for sure, but still great regardless.

Forces, at least what we've been shown of it, the things they've decided were good enough for us to make up our mind on the game, were bad at worst and mediocre at best. There's a reason the reception has been mixed, that did not happen with Generations because it was not an average game.

I understand that some of you are enthusiast about a new "3D" Sonic game, and you're free to be happy about it, but please don't dismiss the other's opinions just because it's different from yours.

I am not happy about the game because I think it's deeply flawed in its design, not because I hate SEGA or Sonic, I wouldn't be here otherwise.

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5 minutes ago, Sonikko said:

 

I am not making fan characters, am I not allowed to say I don't like them or does that cancel my fan status?

I've given what I consider deep analysis of why I don't think Forces is going to be a good game, and what I don't like about it.

I'm just so tired of hearing that we hate on everything SEGA does. Almost nobody hated Generations because it was a great game, flawed for sure, but still great regardless.

Forces, at least what we've been shown of it, the things they've decided were good enough for us to make up our mind on the game, were bad at worst and mediocre at best. There's a reason the reception has been mixed, that did not happen with Generations because it was not an average game.

I understand that some of you are enthusiast about a new "3D" Sonic game, and you're free to be happy about it, but please don't dismiss the other's opinions just because it's different from yours.

I am not happy about the game because I think it's deeply flawed in its design, not because I hate SEGA or Sonic, I wouldn't be here otherwise.

I did say Most Fans, I didn't say Every Fans, it doesn't mean you can be counted because you weren't like the Sonic Fans I mentioned that were like this, I made the post judging on people on YouTube.

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It's new territory for the franchise so we'll have to see how well it plays out for the game. If it's one thing about custom characters though, it's that it's got people talking. Even with Forces' nonexistent marketing, the game still managed to cook up a ton of buzz with this news given how crazy the very idea is.

Edited by ZinogreVolt

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Here's the issue I see...

By and large people are either negative about Forces, asking "why?" in more ways than one would bother counting, or just having fun with the ideas being used in the game, joking about it and doing "meme" related things as others have point out.

So...

This is a problem because it essentially means very, very few are interested in the game from a purchase perspective. Buying it isn't likely to be a priority for many/most that are putting in the effort to comment on the title. It's a product people are either unhappy about or just want to have a good laugh about, be it a positive or negative consumer I don't see either side of the fence reaching into their pockets for the Forces title, not until there's a sale/reduction.

It's an issue if SEGA misinterprets people saying "we're having fun" about Forces as "we're buying it" basically. When a title has little going for it in a positive light besides people coming out of the woodwork to make jokes/puns/memes/references/etc, then there's still a problem.

There is very, very little in the way of genuine positive feedback toward the title, and from what i can tell, the only legitimate defense those for it have are your basic "Hater!!" and "Fanboy!!" type of comments to negativity.

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On 6/2/2017 at 2:38 PM, JackIsInTheStadium said:

Tl;dr but the custom characters were what most of the Sonic fans wanted, nowadays they hate on everything SEGA does.

Citation needed on this.

I've seen more asks for Cream to be playable again rather than people's own characters.

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2 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

I've seen more asks for Cream to be playable again rather than people's own characters.

Citation needed for this.

I've never seen anyone ask for Cream to be playable.

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Also notice how quick I was to at least find some sources of my claim.

I honestly would like someone to find a sizable contingent of people who wanted a CaC in a Sonic game. People keep insisting that this was an obvious thing to add to the games due to nothing but the mere existence of the fan community, but this existence keeps being conflated with desiring action from a game company which isn't the same thing. I've been on SSMB since 2005 and I literally have never seen this kind of crossover where fan creatives like me were insisting that we wanted to extend this kind of thing to the games proper.

Really, I feel if it's "so obvious that most fans/everyone wanted it," you could find any myriad of SSMB threads where we complain into the aether about what we want and find at least five people who wanted this. This shouldn't be that hard, surely.

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1 minute ago, Nepenthe said:

Also notice how quick I was to at least find some sources of my claim.

I honestly would like someone to find a sizable contingent of people who wanted a CaC in a Sonic game. People keep insisting that this was an obvious thing to add to the games due to nothing but the mere existence of the fan community, but this existence keeps being conflated with desiring action from a game company which isn't the same thing. I've been on SSMB since 2005 and I literally have never seen this kind of crossover where fan creatives like me were insisting that we wanted to extend this kind of thing to the games proper.

Really, I feel if it's "so obvious that most fans/everyone wanted it," you could find any myriad of SSMB threads where we complain into the aether about what we want and find at least five people who wanted this. This shouldn't be that hard, surely.

I... Think they're saying "This was the obvious thing to do" because of just how many franchises feature custom characters nowadays.

Kind of how "This was the obvious thing to do" in Breath of the Wild with the Open World thing.

The only problem is that, while it IS technically an obvious thing to do for the franchise, it's not a good thing because unlike how people WANTED the Open World in Zelda, it's not the same for Custom Characters in Sonic.

People see other franchises doing Open World more and more, it followed suit Zelda would do the same because it was a widespread consumer demand by majority. In the case of Sonic it just followed suit to do OC's because it's what the other franchises are doing and SEGA's desperate despite being AGAINST widespread consumer demand.

(Well... I guess to the extent of OC's that is. Been begging for alternate outfits for Sonic and co. for YEARS now.)

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1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

I... Think they're saying "This was the obvious thing to do" because of just how many franchises feature custom characters nowadays.

People keep bringing up Xenoverse and other MMO/RPGs where the point for years has been to make your own custom character within reason. Outside of those genres, this hasn't been proven to be a widespread thing; it certainly isn't in most platformers, which is what Sonic is. Mario, Rayman, Donkey Kong, Crash, indies like Shovel Knight and Rain World-- no one is refraining from buying these because there isn't a CaC.

Besides, that's not what this post and others have said:

Quote

the custom characters were what most of the Sonic fans wanted

This is an assertion that "most Sonic fans" wanted Sega to put this in the games, and assertions need proof to be credible. But every ask for proof in this topic has gone ignored. People just keep insisting that the existence of people who make fan characters directly translates into a marketing demographic that will only put down money for a product that caters to that specific niche' interest, which not only hasn't been supported by any kind of proof, but has been inadvertently disagreed with by the same people who keep pushing this narrative when you apply this same exact reasoning to far more outlandish things Sonic fans do and create like porn.

1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

Kind of how "This was the obvious thing to do" in Breath of the Wild with the Open World thing.

The only problem is that, while it IS technically an obvious thing to do for the franchise, it's not a good thing because unlike how people WANTED the Open World in Zelda, it's not the same for Custom Characters in Sonic.

People wanted an open-world Zelda because Zelda is commonly credited with kickstarting the foundational ideas of the whole genre. There's an actual context there other than "well, other people are doing it," (which I always counter with shooting mechanics. FPS games are still extremely popular, but this doesn't mean most people want a Sonic or Zelda FPS game). I don't remember Sonic doing this with CaC's in games. I remember him rolling a whole lot. Following from that, one of the biggest demands on Sega is for rolling to become a staple of the 3D games again in a meaningful way.

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Just now, Nepenthe said:

I remember him rolling a whole lot. Following from that, one of the biggest demands on Sega is for rolling to become a staple of the 3D games again in a meaningful way.

45-head-shake-gif-587.gif

That moment when something is hilarious, then you realize how much it truthfully hurts afterwards.

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