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Badnik Mechanic

Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

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4 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

I've not had many complaints compared to others, but I have to saye that those are some pretty sterile robot designs, possibly the most boring looking ones I've seen out of the games.

I doubt that's the case with all of them, but I'm not impressed with these.

Well, I thought they looked cool, but only in the sense that they were new, as odd as that may sound. Otherwise, they don't look so impressive, and do look sterile, so I see where you are coming from.

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I think they're supposed to look sterile and somewhat generic, if the giant Death Egg Sentinels are any indication. But yeah, they could look like production models and less zany than Eggman's typical machines without being wrote so bland. The badniks in Green Hill actually look alright, as do the sentinels. It's just the totally new enemies that aren't so hot. 

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29 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

I've not had many complaints compared to others, but I have to saye that those are some pretty sterile robot designs, possibly the most boring looking ones I've seen out of the games.

I doubt that's the case with all of them, but I'm not impressed with these.

Even blander than RoL's?

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I agree that the bland and sterile look is intentional, but it's hard to judge whether that design was a success when we don't know exactly what the intention was.  The change in design aesthetics could conceivably be related to a plot point, but could they have taken it in a different direction?  This tiny detail is strangely one of the more interesting things about Forces to me.

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I quite enjoy the new robot designs, especially the Egg Pawns/Death Egg Robots. They fit well with everything else the game is presenting, and I feel like if they went with the usual Egg Pawns over these, they would've clashed with the game's tone.

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2 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

They look like a bunch of eggs got possessed and started attacking the city.

I dunno, I kind of like the way they look. 

I am mixed on it, I mean yeah its probably a infantry unit as opposed to the normal badniks or G.U.N robots but lack the detail or look that threatening in comparison.

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5 hours ago, Miru the Living Planet said:

Even blander than RoL's?

I didn't play RoL and haven't bothered looking at them, so I wouldn't know. :P

1 hour ago, ZinogreVolt said:

I quite enjoy the new robot designs, especially the Egg Pawns/Death Egg Robots. They fit well with everything else the game is presenting, and I feel like if they went with the usual Egg Pawns over these, they would've clashed with the game's tone.

I actually think they should've gone with the usual Egg Pawns just for that reason (or at least make these more interesting to look at). Would be an excellent show of "Beware the Silly Ones," showing that these dorky robots just gained a competence boost and are capable of conquering cities despite their appearance. I mean, it didn't stop them from appearing in ShTH's dark tone, so why should their appearance stop them from being in Forces?

3 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

They look like a bunch of eggs got possessed and started attacking the city.

That made me laugh... :lol:

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If you've conquered the world and beaten everyone that resisted you, you don't have to care as much toward the overall design of your current robot sentry.

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2 minutes ago, -Robin- said:

If you've conquered the world and beaten everyone that resisted you, you don't have to care as much toward the overall design of your current robot sentry.

If it's Eggman we're talking about, I have to disagree. There's a reason he pastes some facsimile of his face onto most things he makes - he conquers not just for attention, but to establish a land in his own image, and I have a hard time believing that proves less true after he's already accomplished that. There's really no better indication of that than Eggmanland in Unleashed. He wants people to know who beat them.

The first thing I gather from this is that someone has taken over his facilities and stripped the branding from them in the process. Which is interesting when you think about it, because I don't think we've seen Eggman himself yet.

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It could be like Sonic Rivals 1 and 2 where Eggman NEGA is the true villain disguising as Dr. Eggman. Also I've played Sonic 2006, it's a good game, not as good as its successor games, however pretty good compared to Heroes and Shadow. Sonic Boom Rise of Lyric, looks like a pretty good game with improved team-based gameplay from Sonic Heroes and Weapon and melee combat from Shadow and Unleashed. The Park Avenue ost sounds like a clip rather than a complete song, which will be released with the game, remember Sonic Colors Reach for the stars, they released the short version for the intro and launch trailer then released the full version later, not sure if they did that with Endless Possibilities for Unleashed or not. 

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2 minutes ago, Blue Knight/Bluestreak said:

It could be like Sonic Rivals 1 and 2 where Eggman NEGA is the true villain disguising as Dr. Eggman. Also I've played Sonic 2006, it's a good game, not as good as its successor games, however pretty good compared to Heroes and Shadow. Sonic Boom Rise of Lyric, looks like a pretty good game with improved team-based gameplay from Sonic Heroes and Weapon and melee combat from Shadow and Unleashed. The Park Avenue ost sounds like a clip rather than a complete song, which will be released with the game, remember Sonic Colors Reach for the stars, they released the short version for the intro and launch trailer then released the full version later, not sure if they did that with Endless Possibilities for Unleashed or not. 

you liked Sonic 05?

The game that is all broken and badly coded and nearly killed the franchise?

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1 hour ago, Blacklightning said:

The first thing I gather from this is that someone has taken over his facilities and stripped the branding from them in the process. Which is interesting when you think about it, because I don't think we've seen Eggman himself yet.

Metal Sonic is up to his games again.

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2 hours ago, Blacklightning said:

If it's Eggman we're talking about, I have to disagree. There's a reason he pastes some facsimile of his face onto most things he makes - he conquers not just for attention, but to establish a land in his own image, and I have a hard time believing that proves less true after he's already accomplished that. There's really no better indication of that than Eggmanland in Unleashed. He wants people to know who beat them.

The first thing I gather from this is that someone has taken over his facilities and stripped the branding from them in the process. Which is interesting when you think about it, because I don't think we've seen Eggman himself yet.

Unless this is a case like Metallic Madness Bad Future where he's become so complacent about his victory that he's become careless and feels like he doesn't need to bother keeping up with appearances and stuff anymore.

But that's just one possibility.

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Even if you can come up with a logical reason for Eggman to make boring looking robots, that's no excuse for the people who have actually designed them to give terrible, boring robots to the people who will actually be an audience to them.

There's no thematic point worthwhile enough to excuse enemy designs so terrible that the player can't help but wonder if the designers didn't even finish them.

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14 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Even if you can come up with a logical reason for Eggman to make boring looking robots, that's no excuse for the people who have actually designed them to give terrible, boring robots to the people who will actually be an audience to them.

There's no thematic point worthwhile enough to excuse enemy designs so terrible that the player can't help but wonder if the designers didn't even finish them.

So... To simplify that in a way that isn't so head-scratching...

"The enemies in Sonic Forces are too generic/bare-bones in design."

"Something with more detail and/or depth would be preferable to Egg Pawns again."

Is... That close enough?

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21 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Even if you can come up with a logical reason for Eggman to make boring looking robots, that's no excuse for the people who have actually designed them to give terrible, boring robots to the people who will actually be an audience to them.

There's no thematic point worthwhile enough to excuse enemy designs so terrible that the player can't help but wonder if the designers didn't even finish them.

Eh, it's not that bad to me.

I don't really care about that minor detail to begin with, though. I'm usually too busy destroying the robots to care about what they look like unless it's an Eggman-piloted mech or Metal Sonic.

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^ Agree. I feel like it's hard to get super angry at the design of things you're just gonna blow straight through anyway, you'd have to put a lot of effort in to get that mad.

 

That said, I recognize many of you take pride in your ability to put that effort in, so...sorry about that.

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3 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

^ Agree. I feel like it's hard to get super angry at the design of things you're just gonna blow straight through anyway, you'd have to put a lot of effort in to get that mad.

 

That said, I recognize many of you take pride in your ability to put that effort in, so...sorry about that.

I'm frustrated over Egg Pawns returning again myself. I miss the days of mecha bots and badniks.

Egg Pawns have been the main thing since Unleashed and have taken up an almost total role in being the sole enemies of the franchise and it's... Old...

I'm not p@$$ed to high hell over them, yet. But if this keeps up, probably will be.

I'm a salty s-o-b.

Edit

Or... Since Heroes I guess...

Gotta give the Genesis/Advance/Rush/Adventure games credit for having new enemies all the time at least.

I guess Egg pawns are just cheap and that's money to SEGA's ears over spending cash making a bunch of new things to fight.

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This is kinda old news, but out of curiosity I went back and took another look at the Forces interview Iizuka gave back in April, albeit with the interview based on SonicJPNews' translation (compared to @Fusion Ellipsis 's rougher translation from earlier).

It seems my previous assumptions about the Hedgehog Engine 2 being a new engine or a game engine were wrong, as Iizuka in this translation says that "what we announced as ‘Hedgehog Engine 2’ this time is not something what we built up from scratch, but it is a step-up version powered with a new rendering engine to optimize it for next gen hardwares such as PS4, XBOX One, and Nintendo Switch."

So it sounds like really is an iterative update on the original HE engine, and is (still) a lighting engine as opposed to a game engine. Again, hopefully the "step-up version" doesn't have the drawbacks of the old engine, though the footage we've seen so far does look solid in its performance.

On another note, Iizuka also says that Sonic Team prefers using engines made in-house, with their justifications made on Sonic's speed: "[The] fast paced movement is necessary in Sonic series, so we don’t use a general purpose game engine but the one specially designed with our longtime know-how for high-speed processing. ... It is better to make the engine by ourselves than asking for it outside. There is a team formed exclusively for game engine development inside Japanese Sonic Team."

Iizuka also said that the design for the badniks is deliberately different, with a more "military" based design: "Eggman had thousands of minion robots until now too, but with this time’s concept of fighting against Eggman’s huge army, we made the robots’ design more military-like while keeping the animal motives as always. Not only the huge Death Egg robot in the footage, but enemies in the stages also have military based design added to the traditional Eggman taste."

Last, but not least, Iizuka says the design concept of the stages (referring to artstyle/aesthetics, apparently) follows upon Lost World's approach: "As a concept, we adopted the flow from ‘Sonic Lost World’ and told the team to create worldview that is not too realistic. It may look fairly realistic due to the high resolution, but if you look at details you’ll notice that the worldview is rather cartoonish. The silhouette of trees are simplified as needed, too."

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