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Badnik Mechanic

Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

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Just now, Blue Blood said:

He composed all of the Knuckles raps in SA2, Hang Castle in Heroes and considerable amounts of Rush Adventure, Colours, 06 and Unleashed (also remixes of his own tracks in Generations). In those games, he worked as part of a team to create the a varied soundtrack. Both Lost World and Runners were virtually all by Ohtani alone though, and it really shows in a bad way. It looks like Forces might go the same route unfortunately, though it's still too early to say. 

Oh well, dang. Didn't know he's been here that long. I agree with Lost World but I liked all of Runners' Soundtrack. The only track with Forces I dislike so far in Green Hill so, idk, hopefully they release more tracks as time goes on.

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On 6/7/2017 at 11:05 PM, Shaddy the guy said:

The only "if" is "if" Webber actually has as much power as you seem to think.

I'll answer that "if" right now: he doesn't. He just runs the social media pages. It would take a ton of work on his part to get into contact with the big names at Sonic team, and even more to actually make them take what he says seriously. He doesn't fuckin have Iizuka on speed dial.

I think that's likely only partially true.  I don't believe Aaron is influential to their direction but I wouldn't put it past him to be in pretty close contact with more influential people.  He and Iizuka have appeared together in multiple videos together, and they all gel with Aaron's self-referential sense of humor.  Aaron Webber does seem to have his finger soundly on the pulse of the Sonic series as it exists currently; I just think he's on the receiving end of its direction rather than giving.

However, that's enough for me to treat his posts and videos as a potential positive development in the series.  "Potential" because he might be a rare person who sees the sorts of things he sees, but on the assumption that he's acting in a way the head honchos like, to some degree I'd assume that they understand and value the same things he does.  

Webber has been quite a delight as far as Sonic Team employees go because he's able to strike a balance between making fun of this series' past and saluting it.  He's able to recognize that Sonic 2006 was rushed to death and that Sonic 4's physics were shoddy, but never crosses the line into denigrating this series' legacy, and that's a big deal for me because for a while such denigration felt real.  I'm not sure how people here feel about Big's Big Fishing Adventure, or, for that matter, Big, but we must recognize that for better or worse, it's these sorts of things, alongside present-day streaming of the Adventure series, that are keeping alive elements that, for a while, SEGA seemed rather keen to get rid of.  

That they're just posts, Twitch streams and cheap flash games, and not AAA games made by Sonic Team, is beside the point--they exist, they have Sonic's name on them, and that means fans see them and I'm quite certain influential people at Sonic Team do, too.  I don't expect them to obey Aaron Webber if he says to them, "Next Sonic game should do_______", and moreover I don't ever remember him saying that, but if they see a flash game starring Big the Cat he helped promote become a big hit, they might very well take notice and think it's time to do something bigger and more official with the character.

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On 07/06/2017 at 3:04 PM, Velvet Reindeer said:

 

Oh, hello PSO2, I thought I left your grindy backside behind after my life became too much for it but you somehow manage to crawl back into it.

Funnily enough when Las Vegas came out on PSO2 and I heard that lovely Runblebee stuff I was like "god I wish in-gameplay vocals would come back to Sonic music" - and now when they do the music is SO PSO2-ish, it's wild.  I was really surprised that Ohtani was behind it and they hadn't got PSO2's main composer back onto Sonic games too.

On 07/06/2017 at 8:21 PM, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

I've not had many complaints compared to others, but I have to saye that those are some pretty sterile robot designs, possibly the most boring looking ones I've seen out of the games.

I doubt that's the case with all of them, but I'm not impressed with these.

 

On 07/06/2017 at 8:32 PM, Blue Blood said:

I think they're supposed to look sterile and somewhat generic, if the giant Death Egg Sentinels are any indication. But yeah, they could look like production models and less zany than Eggman's typical machines without being wrote so bland. The badniks in Green Hill actually look alright, as do the sentinels. It's just the totally new enemies that aren't so hot. 

You know what I think would be super cool?  If there was a mixture of Egg Pawns, sterile production models, and deteriorated Egg Pawns that show the "production model" aesthetic underneath due to damage from over time.  If the story DOES turn out to be that a lot of time has passed under Eggman's rule, it'd be a cool way to fully illustrate "Eggman's influence has expanded so fast he doesn't have the resources or time to dress up his army anymore" and be some delicious lore material in terms of revealing the inner-workings of his goofy robots.

The only key would be quickly communicating to the player that both the intact, deteriorated and endoskeleton models are all the same enemy with the same attributes, just different aesthetics.  Animation would need to be clear and on-point for them.

On 08/06/2017 at 6:54 AM, Chris Knopps said:

Well... That's what Mr. Webber is supposed to be back for. If they're ignoring things he's very likely telling them, it can't be helped.

Big "if" there mind you.

To be fair, what is Mr Webber meant to be saying?  "No-one likes Egg Pawns"?  Coz that isn't true.  They aren't universally loved but I only ever see a few people who passionately hate them.  The only issue I have with them is relating them to Heroes and Shadow, which had very unsatisfying combat due to even the weakest enemies having health bars that made them feel rubbery and resisting rather than clean and satisfying to crack open in a single hit.  It's hard to shake that relationship of them.  I found the Egg Fighters more satisfying to fight due to their size, BUT either are fine now that badnik variety has been reintroduced to the series.  The Egg Pawns fit well as generic footsoldiers alongside all the goofy animal design robots.

Either way the sterile production model look is certainly way closer to the darker/serious Eggman you'd like to see, surely?

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Ohtani is at his best when he's part of a team full of composers whose work complements and enhances each others'. I actually did like SLW and Runners' soundtracks a lot, but they're not exactly what I expect or want as the norm for a Sonic game. I miss the varied styles and what each composer brought to the table - not to mention Kumatani and Tokoi have him beat.

I'm still in love with Park Avenue, and the main theme for Forces is really good, so I'm optimistic for this game's soundtrack. Even though I'm disappointed that it's yet another solo Ohtani effort, at least it feels like he's trying to channel the pre-SLW sound that Sonic games had in the music.

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On 6/4/2017 at 10:27 AM, Nepenthe said:

Citation needed on this.

I've seen more asks for Cream to be playable again rather than people's own characters.

Cream Becoming the Playable character? PFFFFFFFT, those kids trying to get Cream back, they are stu- Oh yeah, they're going to burst and destroy me. Also I mentioned that it is what most fans creates and not wants, it was just a mistake cause my mind is filled with so many randomness.

But besides that, I have something to say, we did something, and it was something that no other gaming franchise fans have ever done, we used memes like we always did in the past, we ignored the internet, instead of making whatever there is as a meme, we made a huge mistake, and while we were making memes like we did, it was too much, we brought back something, it's not Sonic, because we always talk negative about him, it is Bubsy, We are Sonic fans, only to revive Bubsy, we have went too far with what we had and now, because jokes become reality, they are not jokes, they are seriouses but we need to remember this, What could possibly go wrong.

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6 hours ago, JackIsInTheStadium said:

But besides that, I have something to say, we did something, and it was something that no other gaming franchise fans have ever done, we used memes like we always did in the past, we ignored the internet, instead of making whatever there is as a meme, we made a huge mistake, and while we were making memes like we did, it was too much, we brought back something, it's not Sonic, because we always talk negative about him, it is Bubsy, We are Sonic fans, only to revive Bubsy, we have went too far with what we had and now, because jokes become reality, they are not jokes, they are seriouses but we need to remember this, What could possibly go wrong.

lol, Aaron already said that they had no idea or acknowledgement of the Bubsy thing.

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Just wanted to clarify what I said in an earlier post, I like Sonic 2006 and don't like the Shadow game for several reasons, however I do like the CG cutscenes. I never played Shadow, because I bought it from goodwill for $5 and it was so scratched it didn't work. I have the Xbox 360 version of Sonic 2006 and have not experienced any major glitches, except one with shadow on a couple of levels where teleporting you wind up falling off a cliff or out of the level, other than that none whatsoever. I like 2006 mostly because of the CG cutscenes, the number of playable characters, removal of weapons from Shadow and also not being able to play the adventure Sonic games because of only having PS2, 360 and 3DS and not being able to find a Dreamcast or Gamecube in good condition cheap. Sonic Boom Fire and Ice I haven't tried yet, the classic games are alright but I like the Modern Sonic and Boom games more, however I can't play Rise of Lyric because I don't have a Wii U, unless they port it over to other systems. If Rise of Lyric was multi-platform it might've been better for PS3, PS4, Xbox 360/One, Wii U and PC.

I also have Sonic Unleashed and Generations for 360 and Lost World for 3ds and Sonic Mega Collection Plus for PS2 and plan on getting Sonic Boom Fire and Ice for 3DS to try the Boom games mostly because I like the show. Now the other games in my collection are better than Sonic 2006. I like 2006 a little more than the classic games, but I still like all the Sonic games in my collection alot, because Sonic is my #1 video game franchise above Sly Cooper and Ratchet & Clank.

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So, any word yet on who is preforming the vocals for Park Avenue (Custom Character)?

I can only assume that at this point everyone involved with the OST is under some sort of NDA until closer to release. Still, this does bode well; vocal tracks are something that has been sorely missing from recent Sonic games.

Anyway, I can’t wait to hear the full version of this song.

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19 hours ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:

Hmm, I find it hard to care about what the badniks look like for the quarter of a second they're on screen before Sonic/ Bob the Accountant flamethrow/Boost their tragic remains into outerspace. As long as the bosses/ Set piece induced stronger enemies look more impressive.

Call me crazy, but I'd consider that less of a defense of poor enemy design and more of a denigration of how enemies are way too wimpy to justify even being in the game.  There does come a point in power disparity when the stronger party and its victory stops looking awesome and just starts looking boring, and right now, based on how it looks in action, the Sonics' and OC's simple elimination of enemies feels less like a mongoose or honey badger defeating a venomous snake, and more like me stepping on an ant with my shoe.

Shocked as I am to say it, I think Shadow the Hedgehog had more of the right idea on combat; not as in, we should give everyone guns (although the OC is getting them, anyway), but that it's alright to put in enemies that have some HP and can truly kill you if you don't stop what you're doing and fight them.  That's especially true because they seem to be going all grimdark again with this game.  If they really want to sell me that something's at stake from these rampaging robots, they should nail it home by showing how said robots can kill me.

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Lost World had enemies a little like that, and I think the problem there is that the players, and often enough the designers too, don't want Sonic to have to slow down or stop to defeat an enemy.  It runs contrary to the principles of the Boost games - and furthermore, the nature of the Boost games is such that you don't have any way of defeating enemies which isn't an easy blunt instrument.  There are only really two ways to approach an enemy in a 3D Boost game: You either beat them easily with the Boost or the Homing Attack, or you just go past them.  It's hard to make enemies both "quick to beat" and "actually dangerous."

In the 2D games, when confronted with an enemy, you basically had two options for how to attack them: Horizontally, and vertically.  That is, you could spindash into them or jump into the side of them, or you could hit them from directly below or above, depending on the nature of the badnik in question.  This also applies to how you'd go about simply avoiding them, actually.  But neither of those processes were as automated and one-button as the Boost and Homing Attack; you needed a certain measure of precision.  And yet because the speeds are lower and your movement directions more limited, it's comparatively easy to make relatively sophisticated movements to hit even a complex enemy - and if you can't figure out where to hit them, then you can still figure out how to dodge them and move on.  But in the Boost games, there's only really one direction you can approach most enemies from: The front.  You Boost into them or Homing Attack them, both of which are basically just one-button procedures with no timing element, and other than that, there's no other option for how to confront them.  Jumping on them in the manner of, say, jumping on a Motobug isn't really viable because of the speed Sonic moves at and the extra precision it requires in 3D.  You would also gain nothing from jumping on them, either; no boost in height or momentum.  So in a Boost game, if you don't attack them from the front, you just go past them.  This is why a lot of enemies in Boost games are more like platforming gimmicks; Homing Attack chains to get you to higher ground or to traverse platforms quickly.

As such, my approach to making more dangerous and sophisticated enemies in a Boost game would be to make ones which are harder to hit, but also easier and more legitimate to dodge.  You can stop and figure them out if you want, and maybe you'll get a reward for doing so, like a shortcut or a red ring.  But you can just as easily decide that you don't want to bother and choose any direction to go around them.  Enemies like that can be more complex obstacles rather than things which just die usefully or stylishly.

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