Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[ChikoLad]

1 minute ago, Nepenthe said:

See; this kind of passive-aggressive, victim-complex bullshit is ruining this forum worse than any debates we could possibly have, and I include Sonic 06 debates in that determination. Maybe instead of blaming a discussion forum for engaging you pretty civilly in a discussion you could have opted out of at any time by just not posting anymore (this isn't the first time you said you were done), you maybe ask yourself why just about no one else agreed with you if you desire to foster understanding and mutual respect. Because showing your ass with this kind of attitude is the kind of shit that will get you striked and banned.

You're only proving my point.

The issue was never that anyone disagreed with me. The issue was the constant "your opinion is wrong!" attitude I was getting, including from yourself.

It's fine if other people feel differently, and I can see the reasons why. But I feel like I have enough reason to feel the way I do, and I know I'm not the only one.

That is the nature of opinions, but people didn't seem to comprehend that and got confrontational over the fact I had one that was different than the majority in this thread.

Just saying that since it's not even part of the actual discussion I was having earlier.

I don't have a victim complex, but when I'm having blatant insults flung at me repeatedly over a difference in opinion and I haven't flung any insults to instigate them, there's a problem there that isn't on me. I couldn't care less about what anyone here has to say about me personally, I'd just rather they not bring it up over a difference in opinion on games about a cartoon hedgehog. I also find it amusing how you only step in now, when I say something you personally have a problem with, yet ignored that shit flinging I was receiving. Seems just a tad biased, if you ask me.

[Indigo Rush]

Topic shift!

Assuming Sonic 2017 is, in effect, Sonic Generations '2' with the "Boost" and "Classic" dichotomy, what kind of improvements or changes do you see taking place realistically, and what would you like to see?

I imagine aside from seeing original levels and, apparently, a more involving story, I'm hoping that the gameplay mechanics for Modern and Classic are tightened up a fair bit. Modern Sonic is nice, but the full 3D controls at slow (non-boosting) speeds are pretty uncomely. I'm also wanting Classic Sonic's rolling mechanics to be, well, to be there, as well as having a more dynamic change in the physics. Almost all of those ramps and loops were automated to some unnecessary degree, and I hope they improve those mechanics to better resemble the Genesis games. 

[azoo]

20 minutes ago, ChikoLad said:

You're only proving my point.

The issue was never that anyone disagreed with me. The issue was the constant "your opinion is wrong!" attitude I was getting, including from yourself.

It's fine if other people feel differently, and I can see the reasons why. But I feel like I have enough reason to feel the way I do, and I know I'm not the only one.

That is the nature of opinions, but people didn't seem to comprehend that and got confrontational over the fact I had one that was different than the majority in this thread.

Just saying that since it's not even part of the actual discussion I was having earlier.

I don't have a victim complex, but when I'm having blatant insults flung at me repeatedly over a difference in opinion and I haven't flung any insults to instigate them, there's a problem there that isn't on me. I couldn't care less about what anyone here has to say about me personally, I'd just rather they not bring it up over a difference in opinion on games about a cartoon hedgehog. I also find it amusing how you only step in now, when I say something you personally have a problem with, yet ignored that shit flinging I was receiving. Seems just a tad biased, if you ask me.

You've taken this as other members attacking your opinions and showing obvious bias to one thing or the other.

But the only thing I and others in here have been saying was actual analysis of the gameplay styles. If you don't see what the big deal is between these styles, then okeydoke, you have your reasons. But you can't just brush off arguments against broad statements as personal attacks, especially if you took it that way enough to act condescending in retort.

If people see holes in your argument, then they will argue it. It's debate. That's community life on a message board for you, especially one with as much traffic as one like ours.

And with that, now we can move on. Continuing it wouldn't be a good idea for any party here.

[ChikoLad]

Just now, Azoo said:

You've taken this as attacking your opinions and showing obvious bias to one thing or the other.

But the only thing I and others in here have been saying was actual analysis of the gameplay styles. If you don't see what the big deal is between these styles, then okeydoke, you have your reasons. But you can't just brush off arguments against your broad statements as personal attacks. If people see holes in your argument, then they will argue it. It's debate. That's community life on a message board for you, especially one with as much traffic as one like ours.

And with that, this case is officially closed to discussion. Carry on.

I'm aware of that, but I'm talking about the times where blatant insults were thrown at me, which you seem to be ignoring at this point. This is far from the first internet forum I've been on, FYI.

But it's whatever, I think I see how things are around here at this point anyway, and I was warned of it, so I guess I'll take my leave.

[Sean]

10 minutes ago, ChikoLad said:

I'm aware of that, but I'm talking about the times where blatant insults were thrown at me, which you seem to be ignoring at this point. This is far from the first internet forum I've been on, FYI.

But it's whatever, I think I see how things are around here at this point anyway, and I was warned of it, so I guess I'll take my leave.

Hahahah you don't fucking listen do you? Have a strike for not shutting up when told to.

EDIT: ChikoLad, if you want to, show me some examples of the insults (via PM, or better yet reporting) if you want all I'll talk with you. But from what I can tell, there has only been that kind of thing from your end. Everyone else's posts have only escalated in frustration due to how much you wouldn't budge and would also press for that, insulting the community as you did it.

- Azoo (hi sean how ya doin)

[Milo]

1 minute ago, ChikoLad said:

I don't have a victim complex, but when I'm having blatant insults flung at me repeatedly over a difference in opinion and I haven't flung any insults to instigate them, there's a problem there that isn't on me. I couldn't care less about what anyone here has to say about me personally, I'd just rather they not bring it up over a difference in opinion on games about a cartoon hedgehog. I also find it amusing how you only step in now, when I say something you personally have a problem with, yet ignored that shit flinging I was receiving. Seems just a tad biased, if you ask me.

You're really not one to talk about being biased or shit-flinging...

15 hours ago, ChikoLad said:

We resorting to butt kissing now?

...

People weren't lying when they said SSMB wasn't a welcoming place...all the better I don't post much, then.

17 hours ago, ChikoLad said:

Stuff like physics don't count for much and are extremely nitpicky

...

Literally, only the most hardcore fans care about this in any game series.

 

[Zaysho]

Just now, Gabe said:

You're really not one to talk about being biased or shit-flinging...

 

 

We've already asked that this be dropped and for the topic to be re-railed. Don't do this.

[Wraith]

4 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

Topic shift!

Assuming Sonic 2017 is, in effect, Sonic Generations '2' with the "Boost" and "Classic" dichotomy, what kind of improvements or changes do you see taking place realistically, and what would you like to see?

I imagine aside from seeing original levels and, apparently, a more involving story, I'm hoping that the gameplay mechanics for Modern and Classic are tightened up a fair bit. Modern Sonic is nice, but the full 3D controls at slow (non-boosting) speeds are pretty uncomely. I'm also wanting Classic Sonic's rolling mechanics to be, well, to be there, as well as having a more dynamic change in the physics. Almost all of those ramps and loops were automated to some unnecessary degree, and I hope they improve those mechanics to better resemble the Genesis games. 

A trick system like Rush and Riders implemented in the game if it were up to me. Sort of like what Generations had with those stunt ramps, but it can be done on every spring or ramp that launches you into the air. I want the boost games to embrace flashiness if they're going to continue to be a thing. If he touches the ground mid trick, Sonic should stumble and lose speed, but if he sticks the landing, he gets a boost. 

I also want SA2's balancing mechanic back, or anything that could make rail grinding more involving and skill based and less just sitting there and watching Sonic do cool thing. 

There are a lot of little tweaks you could make to give the boost formula more player involvement and less automation. Hopefully Sonic team takes that approach and ignores the large majority of the fandom saying you can't do much with it.

[Sonictrainer]

Was it already said whether or not Sonic would make an appearance at Gamescom?

[Darinian]

What I would like to see is less automated sections after you hit a boost pad and more of a "I wanna skip the boost pad and explore that little chamber over there". I don't really care for the giant stretches of boosting, but along the line give me a bit of exploring.

[Indigo Rush]

5 minutes ago, Sonictrainer said:

Was it already said whether or not Sonic would make an appearance at Gamescom?

Nothing was mentioned, so it's not likely, at least for Project '17. Sonic Mania has a working demo, so I would expect to see it playable there.

[Radiant Hero Ike]

Hope we get some new information soon. I'm thrilled for it, but I would love to know more. As it stands there's not much for me to talk about that I haven't already discussed.

Well, aside from wantin Shadow to be playable, but that's probably not happening for a while.

[StaticMania]

Just now, Wraith said:

I also want SA2's balancing mechanic back, or anything that could make rail grinding more involving and skill based and less just sitting there and watching Sonic do cool thing. 

I don't see how they can really bring this back in the Boost game-play. 9 out of 10 times the rails are typically straight lines. You also stopped having to balance one you started going really fast, with the boost this balancing mechanic will ultimately be a useless feature.

 

But also again, isn't rail switching to dodge obstacles and possibly timing jumps to hit trick rings a smidge more involved than just balancing? Rails leading to alternative pathways should come back definitely.

[Darinian]

Also I might not see this happening but the choice to choose sa1, sa2 spindashing or boost. Yknow, that little bit of choice

[StaticMania]

Ya don't want Sa2 spin-dash, that has a one second delay.

[Darinian]

Just now, StaticMania said:

Ya don't want Sa2 spin-dash, that has a one second delay.

That's what I loved about it, they're all different but learnable

[Nepenthe]

7 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

I don't see how they can really bring this back in the Boost game-play. 9 out of 10 times the rails are typically straight lines. You also stopped having to balance one you started going really fast, with the boost this balancing mechanic will ultimately be a useless feature.

Balancing in SA2 came into play regardless of your speed or the rail's shape. If you were too unbalanced, it would kill your speed until you slowed down enough to fall. You could easily apply this idea to boosting and have an unbalanced state drain your meter so fast that you could lose it on a rail, or facilitating the potential for actually boosting off if a player wasn't able to keep themselves upright at all times.

So it's high risk, high reward: you could either rail-grind without boosting exactly like in SA2, which is safer and easier to do because there's a recovery period for Sonic to regain his balance if you mess up, but it's ultimately slower and inhibits you from reaching some alternate paths that require a high enough speed to reach after leaving a rail; or, you can boost down a rail with the risk of either severe meter drainage or of automatically falling off because of the lack of a recovery period during boost mode, but the reward being that you get to reach really high points and get extra skill points for good measure.

[FriendBot]

If the Boost were to come back for this game, I'll say like I always have; let it be like the Boost Mode but instead of making you go fast and have a nice afterimage effect; bring in that invincible cone that destroys all in its path.

[Wraith]

I'd also like it if rail grinding was less of a chrutch in the level design and more of a route the more skilled players can take to get a boost. More organic placement like stairways and tracks and less of it just being a gap between platforming over bottomless pits. 

Just fucking look at SA2 and take notes for rail grinding is what I'm saying basically.

[Milo]

28 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

We've already asked that this be dropped and for the topic to be re-railed. Don't do this.

You have my apologies.

2 minutes ago, Wraith said:

A trick system like Rush and Riders implemented in the game if it were up to me. Sort of like what Generations had with those stunt ramps, but it can be done on every spring or ramp that launches you into the air. I want the boost games to embrace flashiness if they're going to continue to be a thing. If he touches the ground mid trick, Sonic should stumble and lose speed, but if he sticks the landing, he gets a boost. 

I also want SA2's balancing mechanic back, or anything that could make rail grinding more involving and skill based and less just sitting there and watching Sonic do cool thing. 

There are a lot of little tweaks you could make to give the boost formula more player involvement and less automation. Hopefully Sonic team takes that approach and ignores the large majority of the fandom saying you can't do much with it.

Adding to this, I think I mentioned it back in the statuses a while ago, but I've been thinking about how a fair amount of stuff in Riders could be pretty fun when applied to the boost gameplay. Rails as used in Sonic Riders would be a pretty neat way to using shortcuts; and on a broader note, I really wouldn't complain if with character-specific routes (i.e. grinding rails for speed, hoops for flight, and giant / blocked obstacles for power/strength) were used as a way to have other characters playable (albeit as being virtually the same as Sonic's gameplay).

I'd also like to see rings also get some purpose in a similar vein Sonic Riders had it with its upgrading system, but with the existence of the Skill Set feature and due to the boost being pretty powerful anyway, I can't think of any other ability Sonic could be given that the boost wouldn't override.

 

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I REALLY do not want the balancing mechanic back from SA2. The controls for me were really confusing and I really don't want grinding to be much a chore.

[TheOcelot]

I'd quite like the idea of having the boost on a more limited basis like in Sonic Colors.

Maybe something along the lines of; you have to collect 100 rings to be rewarded with a limited supply of boost energy, which can then be used at your leisure until the supply runs out. In other words the Boost is a reward for skill/not losing any rings. You can then use the boost energy (until the supply runs out) to race through the stage or to get to hard to reach routes more easily. You then replenish the supply when you reach 200 rings, then 300 etc.

I just think making the boost feel like a reward instead of being a forced stage gimmick might be a more interesting take on it.

[Lord-Dreamerz]

I REALLY wish bottomless pits were less of a default for level design in 3D Sonic games. If possible it would be nice if falling just lands you on a lower path, maybe forcing you to have to backtrack little as the punishment. This includes water.

[StaticMania]

Just now, Nepenthe said:

Balancing in SA2 came into play regardless of your speed or the rail's shape. If you were too unbalanced, it would kill your speed until you slowed down enough fall. You could easily apply this idea to boosting and have an unbalanced state drain your meter so fast that you could lose it on a rail, or facilitating the potential for actually boosting off if a player wasn't able to keep themselves upright at all times. So it's high risk, high reward: you could either rail-grind without boosting exactly like in SA2, which is safer and easier to do because there's a recovery period for Sonic to regain his balance, but it's ultimately slower and inhibits you from reaching some alternate paths that require a high enough speed to reach after leaving a rail; or, you can boost down a rail with the risk of either severe meter drainage or of automatically falling off because of the lack of a recovery period during boost mode, but the reward being that you get to reach really high points and get extra skill points for good measure.

I'm just making observations from my experiences with the game. I've always came to this conclusion: The slower you go on a rail (while crouching), the more extremely you'll have to balance yourself to stay on. The faster you go on a rail, the less you will have to balance yourself...mostly amongst the curves. At a certain point, it really does just become unnecessary. I'm not even like, just referring to how it impacts the player's level progression or just level design in general.

[Diogenes]

39 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

Assuming Sonic 2017 is, in effect, Sonic Generations '2' with the "Boost" and "Classic" dichotomy, what kind of improvements or changes do you see taking place realistically, and what would you like to see?

What do I expect to see? Fuck all. At most a few minor tweaks like there were between Unleashed and Gens, but nothing substantial, nothing that actually addresses the gameplay's problems, nothing that adds to what it already is. I feel this is intended to be a very "safe" game; Lost World ranged from mediocre to bad, Boom bombed hard, and now they're in full retreat to the only thing they've had some amount of success with. They sure as hell didn't convince me there's any creativity or innovation going on with the teaser, at least.

What would I like to see...? Well, assuming it's got to conform to a boost+classic format, start by actually getting Classic Sonic right. Have Christian Whitehead stand behind the programmers/designers with a rolled up newspaper ready to whap them with it if they do it wrong, if that's what it takes. It's honestly beyond excuse if they still can't get it right.

The boost half is the tricky part, since...I don't like it, and wouldn't even be trying to fix it if I had the choice. Fixing the low-speed controls is imperative; aim for something similar to the Adventures. Make the boost more acceleration-based than instant; it might be okay to have a bit of a kick when you first hit it, but you shouldn't be hitting top speed instantly like you do now. Maybe limit the attacking hitbox to when you're above a certain speed so you can't just use it to plow through everything all the time. Fix the homing attack to keep forward momentum on hit. Fix the air dash to likewise keep its forward momentum instead of stopping dead. Replace the slide with the roll. You can still use it to get under things, but don't just reskin it, make it work like the roll. I don't even care if it's not that useful. Put it in there so we can do it right next game. Integrate grind rails naturally into the level design rather than using them as long, awkward transitions. Get rid of the quick step and quick step sections, they've never been fun. Make the drift actually feel good.