Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[JosepHenry]

I think this game will be Sonic alone again, but a new polished Boost engine.

[Pixel]

I hope Tails and Knuckles aren't in. The only good thing about the trailer was that Sonic was on his own. Sonic is the only good character in the series lol. It would be especially bad to have Tails and Knuckles in '17, which looks like a tryhard edgy game.

[Lucid Dream]

4 hours ago, Pixel said:

I hope Tails and Knuckles aren't in. The only good thing about the trailer was that Sonic was on his own. Sonic is the only good character in the series lol. It would be especially bad to have Tails and Knuckles in '17, which looks like a tryhard edgy game.

I'm sorry, I don't think I can accept "lol" as a reason to why Sonics friends are bad.

Mind explaining how all Sonic characters aside from Sonic are bad? 

 

[Pixel]

Tails was ok in the Classics because he never spoke. He was still fucking annoying, because he would speed ahead and break destructible bridges and platforms and fuck up Sonic 2's Special Stages. The thing was though, you could disable him, so I could play the games in bliss without his presence fucking everything up.

Tails is even worse in the modern games, he's smarmy and annoying. He's really up himself and a back-talker. So I don't exactly want to see him continue to be a wise ass in Sonic '17.

As for Knuckles, he's just either portrayed as an idiot or he just stands there doing fuck all with no personality. He was fine in Sonic and Knuckles since he basically didn't have much personality. He was an idiot for believing in Eggman, but at least he wasn't running around confusing how many fingers he has or just standing there awkwardly doing nothing.

I understand that theoretically you could write the characters better, but this is Sonic Team we are talking about and they haven't done anything right in decades. From a purely practical viewpoint, I don't want to see Sonic's awful friends.

[NeoZero]

12 minutes ago, Pixel said:

Tails was ok in the Classics because he never spoke. He was still fucking annoying, because he would speed ahead and break destructible bridges and platforms and fuck up Sonic 2's Special Stages. The thing was though, you could disable him, so I could play the games in bliss without his presence fucking everything up.

That's up to gameplay mechanics, not characterisation, making this argument null and void.

13 minutes ago, Pixel said:

Tails is even worse in the modern games, he's smarmy and annoying. He's really up himself and a back-talker. So I don't exactly want to see him continue to be a wise ass in Sonic '17.

Well, I partially agree, but that's because Pontac and Graff have zero sense of comedic timing, don't understand that there is a time and place for being a smart arse (it should be at the beginning of the game when there is downtime before the story starts building up, the little breaks between action in the midgame, and the calm after the storm,) and they are dumbing the sarcasm and snark down for the little kiddielings.

15 minutes ago, Pixel said:

As for Knuckles, he's just either portrayed as an idiot or he just stands there doing fuck all with no personality. He was fine in Sonic and Knuckles since he basically didn't have much personality. He was an idiot for believing in Eggman, but at least he wasn't running around confusing how many fingers he has or just standing there awkwardly doing nothing.

I agree completely, honestly. You could give him a stoic personality like usual, but add the element of him not actually being a stoic, simply acting like that because he thinks being stoic is cool. That would be a jab at other Japanese works (especially modern anime and the like) that have stoic characters simply to appeal to teenagers who make a habit of yelling CRAWLING IN MY SKIN out their window in the middle of the night. But have it so that when he needs to get serious he is brutally pragmatic, borderline anti-hero-ish, will constantly trying to outdo Sonic.

 

19 minutes ago, Pixel said:

I understand that theoretically you could write the characters better, but this is Sonic Team we are talking about and they haven't done anything right in decades. From a purely practical viewpoint, I don't want to see Sonic's awful friends.

Sonic Team are the dev team. The writing are often outsourced to freelancers, with Sonic Team giving the basic foundations (events, themes, tone, etc) and leaving character interaction and further depth to the writer/s in question.

[Pawn]

26 minutes ago, Pixel said:

I understand that theoretically you could write the characters better, but this is Sonic Team we are talking about and they haven't done anything right in decades. From a purely practical viewpoint, I don't want to see Sonic's awful friends.

There is reason to have hope though. While I would only ever be cautiously optimistic for a 3D Sonic, the fact that Colours and Gens (while not exactly what I personally wanted) were critically well-received and praised by fans old and new at least suggests that Sonic Team can please a crowd, even if it's not everyone. The 2017 game appears to build on them from the trailer, rather than Lost World, and SEGA's current focus on quality (which they themselves admitted hadn't been a priority in recent years) has seen the latest Boom title garner far greater critical reception than its predecessors. Delaying Fire and Ice, a game that didn't seem all that important to them (compared to other Sonic games, as the marketing has been pretty quiet), does point to a pretty positive change for the company. I can't remember a 3D Sonic game ever being delayed (except Sonic Adventure from Saturn to Dreamcast but those were very different circumstances). It probably happened at some point, but it's at least bloody rare.

As for Sonic's friends; there's no reason the improvements shouldn't extend to them. Sonic Team haven't really tried except with Tails in cutscenes (and while your mileage may vary, a lot of people have enjoyed his modern self).

[Lucid Dream]

Personally, I actually like Tails being more selfish and over-confident. Tails needed some personality flaws, when he didn't have any before. 

That said, graff and Pontac are pretty awful at comedy. It was a bad move to use them... Fleetway Tails was pretty good in terms of having a balanced personality. 

Anyway, I'm fairly sure Blaze would be a nice addition. Several Sonic characters aren't written badly. Cream is another one, and she's always been a fun character to use. 

[Pixel]

I don't have that high opinion of either Colors or Generations. Colors was ok, but it wasn't amazing or anything. It was a standard fare 2D game but it was passable for what it was. I mean, compare it to Rayman, Donkey Kong, Mario, Yoshi and Kirby and it's not exactly incredible. It was ok though. Deserving of a 6/10 or 7/10. Colors was better written than the previous titles in terms of the script, but it was still a cringe fest.

As for Generations, I think it's quite over-appreciated. It's very small with a very monotonous level set. Classic Sonic in Generations is completely wrong with terrible physics and Modern Sonic isn't designed for open and expansive platforming, so he controls horribly in the later levels. Generations is only really refined in Modern Sonic running really fast and going forward. It's good at that I guess. I'd give Generations about a 5/10.

As for the friends, they should be improved, but they won't because whoever is in charge of managing the Sonic IP has been fucking useless. The only concrete improvement is the outsourcing of talent to the Mania team. So perhaps that's a good sign of things to come. However, if the friends are in, they'll probably just continue to be banal and cringey along with the horrible gameplay they will no doubt bring since they were ruined from Adventure.

[NeoZero]

1 minute ago, Pixel said:

As for the friends, they should be improved, but they won't because whoever is in charge of managing the Sonic IP has been fucking useless. The only concrete improvement is the outsourcing of talent to the Mania team. So perhaps that's a good sign of things to come. However, if the friends are in, they'll probably just continue to be banal and cringey along with the horrible gameplay they will no doubt bring since they were ruined from Adventure.

I hate to backseat moderate, especially being new and backseat moderating being seen as something dickish and generally bad from new people...

 Look, I'll be blunt. You've just been going around taking every chance to shit on anything post-1994. I'm not sure if you are trying to actively force your opinion on people, but if you want to go in-depth explaining why you believe 3D, long limbs, vocal chords and irises are shit, make your own thread. Don't temporarily derail another topic just because you prefer Classic Sonic, because while preferring Classic Sonic is fine and understandable, that's no reason to shit on the other games and the people that like them. And don't start another argument from this post, just take it in and either continue on your merry way, or else create your own thread.

OK?

OK.

[Lucid Dream]

Uh, I thought we were talking about Sonic characters in Project 2017? Lets not get off into another tangent.

And we get it, you think Sonic characters who have personalities are cringy and bad. You've repeated that for the umpteenth time already. 

[NeoZero]

I know, hence the post. However, the somewhat off-topic jabs s/he's taking at 3D Sonic was already called out on the Mania thread, and talking like that is going to cause it to go off on a tangent anyway.

[Pixel]

I want Sonic '17 to be a solo Sonic affair because I don't like the way SEGA portrays the supporting characters. It really is as simple as that.

[PickleBrows]

Tails' recent personality, while flawed in how it's been handled, actually seems like a perfectly natural progression for him from the Adventure days.

He started out as the innocent type in the classics, looking up to Sonic and wanting to be like him. In Adventure he begins to realise that he'll need to stand on his own two feet and winds up having to save Station Square on his own. Fast forward to today and he's a little older, he's been through this and that and he's yet to really come to any harm for it. This probably would make him a bit more confident in himself which only makes him more annoyed when Sonic is still being somewhat protective of him.

Right now the problem is that he's been forced a little too far the other way and he's now getting overly hostile the moment anyone isn't 100%. This really comes from Lost World and while I like that they tried to give him some more energy (he seemed somewhat calm and indifferent about a lot of Colours and very content to just tinker with his translator at the sidelines) they've maybe gone too far. If they can find some balance in there I think he'll be fine personality wise.

[NeoZero]

10 minutes ago, Pixel said:

I don't have that high opinion of either Colors or Generations. Colors was ok, but it wasn't amazing or anything. It was a standard fare 2D game but it was passable for what it was. I mean, compare it to Rayman, Donkey Kong, Mario, Yoshi and Kirby and it's not exactly incredible. It was ok though. Deserving of a 6/10 or 7/10. Colors was better written than the previous titles in terms of the script, but it was still a cringe fest.

As for Generations, I think it's quite over-appreciated. It's very small with a very monotonous level set. Classic Sonic in Generations is completely wrong with terrible physics and Modern Sonic isn't designed for open and expansive platforming, so he controls horribly in the later levels. Generations is only really refined in Modern Sonic running really fast and going forward. It's good at that I guess. I'd give Generations about a 5/10.

However, if the friends are in, they'll probably just continue to be banal and cringey along with the horrible gameplay they will no doubt bring since they were ruined from Adventure.

Combined with previous posts, it just seems that you seem to constantly want to sprinkle in some jabs at anything post-94 simply because you don't personally like it. Anyway, whatever. No point in sticking around, I may as well leave it as-is rather than causing more tangents.

[Kiah]

4 hours ago, Pixel said:

I don't have that high opinion of either Colors or Generations. Colors was ok, but it wasn't amazing or anything. It was a standard fare 2D game but it was passable for what it was. I mean, compare it to Rayman, Donkey Kong, Mario, Yoshi and Kirby and it's not exactly incredible. It was ok though. Deserving of a 6/10 or 7/10. Colors was better written than the previous titles in terms of the script, but it was still a cringe fest.

As for Generations, I think it's quite over-appreciated. It's very small with a very monotonous level set. Classic Sonic in Generations is completely wrong with terrible physics and Modern Sonic isn't designed for open and expansive platforming, so he controls horribly in the later levels. Generations is only really refined in Modern Sonic running really fast and going forward. It's good at that I guess. I'd give Generations about a 5/10.

As for the friends, they should be improved, but they won't because whoever is in charge of managing the Sonic IP has been fucking useless. The only concrete improvement is the outsourcing of talent to the Mania team. So perhaps that's a good sign of things to come. However, if the friends are in, they'll probably just continue to be banal and cringey along with the horrible gameplay they will no doubt bring since they were ruined from Adventure.

While your are definitely entitled to your opinion, you are being disruptive in this topic with these jabs and are therefore derailing it and this cannot continue. Express yourself in a respectful manner as that is imperative to constructive discussion which we wish to have here at the SSMB within our topics even if you disagree with others instead of taking all of these jabs that are upsetting people while not respecting their opinions in the process. 

4 hours ago, NeoZero said:

I hate to backseat moderate, especially being new and backseat moderating being seen as something dickish and generally bad from new people...

 Look, I'll be blunt. You've just been going around taking every chance to shit on anything post-1994. I'm not sure if you are trying to actively force your opinion on people, but if you want to go in-depth explaining why you believe 3D, long limbs, vocal chords and irises are shit, make your own thread. Don't temporarily derail another topic just because you prefer Classic Sonic, because while preferring Classic Sonic is fine and understandable, that's no reason to shit on the other games and the people that like them. And don't start another argument from this post, just take it in and either continue on your merry way, or else create your own thread.

OK?

OK.

Backseat moderating is against the rules we have established here so please don't do this. I understand your frustrations but this honestly isn't helping matters but is complicating them further. If you see a problematic post a member has made then please report it and a Staff member will take care of it.

[Lucid Dream]

So uh, getting back to more positive matters

Would it be better if this carried on the boost 3D gameplay, or if it tried out a new system? Normally Sonic Team creates a new system for their games after every 3 or so games, so as to not become boring, but since Sonic Generations and Sonic Colours both had a lot more 2D than 3D, do you think they might continue using the boost gameplay? 

Personally, I'd like to see the Lost world gameplay come back, but hugely improved and with some modifications. I think that if they iron out the problems and strengthen the gameplay, than we could have a really fun 3D Sonic game. 

[Pixel]

I'd like it to try out a new system because I think that Boost is a terrible game mechanic that runs counter to the spirit of true classic Sonic. Of course, it's a risk for Sonic Team to try anything new, because they'd probably mess it up.

I think from the trailer though it's safe to say it will be a boost game. It's a spiritual successor to Generations essentially. If people liked Generations then good for them I guess. I'll pass on it though.

[Diogenes]

I expect it's going to be bog standard, practically unmodified boost gameplay, and that's why I have no hope for it, because the boost gameplay is so boring. Even knowing I'm not going to get the kind of game I actually want, I'd rather they at least try something different so they might actually hit on something engaging.

[FriendBot]

I really hope it's not going to have the Boost like in past games. But with being a broken record as always, if the Boost were to come back; I really hope it would be like the Boost Mode from Advance 2/3, that I would be ok with.

But if Parkour returns, I would die happy.

That is all.

[Cakito]

13 minutes ago, Lucid Dream said:

Personally, I'd like to see the Lost world gameplay come back, but hugely improved and with some modifications. I think that if they iron out the problems and strengthen the gameplay, than we could have a really fun 3D Sonic game. 

I feel the same way - I don't like Lost Wolrd. It's a bad game in my opinion, yeah, but the controls in the game, there, was the best I've seen and played since years. If the levels were designed well, Lost World would be a fun game to play.

[MegasonicZX]

5 minutes ago, Soni.exe said:

I really hope it's not going to have the Boost like in past games. But with being a broken record as always, if the Boost were to come back; I really hope it would be like the Boost Mode from Advance 2/3, that I would be ok with.

But if Parkour returns, I would die happy.

That is all.

Yeah, having parkour back would be great since I don't think it got a fair shake in lost world and was amazingly underutilized and I could honestly see it working pretty well now that the game is based more on a flat surface rather than round planetoids.

[Menace2Society]

Parkour would be nice, but I expect to see the Boost gameplay again, since it seems to be the most popular one, as well as the most well-received.

I personally wouldn't mind if the Boost gameplay came back, since it's my favorite gameplay style, but I can see why people would be annoyed by it's return.

[Mad Convoy]

I absolutely love the boost, so I would definitely be happy to have it return.

I believe that if Sonic Team were to take some elements of Sonic Lost World, such as the parkour, and append it to the boost formula, we could make the boost even better. Parkour, for example, could be used to facilitate vertical exploration by enabling Sonic to have a choice of multiple paths without having to deal with drifting or "stop and go" stuff. I'd also set up the boost so that its meter gets filled up slowly by rings, the meter loses some energy when you're hit by enemies while not using the boost, and is required to activate parkour-- that way only players who use the boost effectively and play the game well can access the higher paths of the levels. Thus, it rewards skill and encourages mastery. Not to mention that wall climbing aspect of Parkour allows for some leniency if you boost runs out literally just as you are about to get to the other side of a pit or wall, which would otherwise be really annoying.

I also think that spherical/conical/capsule shape of Lost World's levels, while impractical for normal Sonic levels, would make for good bonus stages. They could be filled with rings and obstacles like spikes, and Sonic's goal would be to collect all the rings without losing a life (which would automatically eject him from the stage and back to the main level). There'd be a risk-reward factor to them-- win and you get a bunch of extra lives and rings, lose and you lose all your rings and don't get to keep the lives you collected in the bonus stage. They'd be good for special stages if Sonic Team decides to go that route (which I kind of doubt, but hey, you never know), or they could just be little bonuses for players that found them and wanted to do them. I know this sounds a lot like Get Blue Spheres, but the key difference would be the shape of the terrain and world, which creates a new layer of challenge.

[NeoZero]

Lost World has a fantastic engine kicking about in there, but everything else attached to it is not all that good. All I'd want is an SA1 style spindash. Sure, it's spammable, but considering that the Lost World one is actually infinite, I don't really care.

Oh, and Lost World has no momentum, with some really weird air controls. That too.

So Keep Lost World's parkour system, get rid of the run button in favour of acceleration like that of SA1, get a more traditional spindash and add physics.

That I'd be happy with.

But boost I would be very happy with, as I love using the boost to manipulate the physics engine. Like an evolved spiritual successor of the rolling in the megadrive games.

But one of my favourite Sonic levels is Empire City Day, so I have a dodgy opinion in the eyes of many.

[Salamander]

To me, Sonic Team keep on having good ideas and then fluffing the execution.  Boost clearly works, on a basic and somewhat visceral level, but it's shallow and not hugely connected to the original principles of Sonic gameplay outside of a superficial notion of "go fast."  Could the Boost perhaps be made into a non-damaging move and the spindash reintroduced with the ability to curl and uncurl at will?  Parkour, meanwhile, is clunkily-implemented but shows promise as a way of overcoming the eternal Sonic problem of what happens to your speed when you hit a wall, while I feel that the cylindrical and spherical levels, while perhaps a little immersion-breaking, form a potentially strong model for a more free-roaming Sonic game not riddled with bottomless pits and highway-in-the-sky design.  I'd really like to see these concepts revisited and rethought.