Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Lucid Dream]

Well I also love the boost mechanic. I can see why a lot of people dislike it, since it can be very trial and error like, which opposes previous Sonic games. I enjoy the trial and error though, since it's still really pleasant to do everything perfectly and get that glorious S rank. 

But I think for Sonic 2017 to really have an impact on us, it would need a updated and slightly transformed version of Sonic Lost worlds engine. If it's the boost engine, I'm sure it'll be a great game and everything, but it probably won't get over the controversy around Sonic and be critically acclaimed. Also, lets not forget that the Boost system would have been in place for 12 years when Sonic 2017 comes out. 

I'm kinda hoping for a revolutionary Sonic game, and I don't think the boost engine can give us that. It's a fairly old engine now after all. 

[Pixel]

I think Boost works really well at going really fast in a straight line, but not much else. It hampers the controls too much for anything outside of that very narrow focus.

[NeoZero]

Well, I speedrun, so that's probably why I like the boost. While it isn't actually INTENDED, it is really fun to break the game. Colour outside the lines, if you will. Say there is a area. There are two platforming routes suspended in the air. Drop down and there's a longer platforming area with more enemies, but at the end there's a loop that leads to a quicker route than the top before they merge again. You can boost, jump on one platform, jump to the other route, drop down and boost over the top of the loop and get an item then drop down to the converging point, doing it a hell of a lot quicker. I'll draw it out at some point to convey what I mean, but if they designed it around breaking it as much as possible, that could be fun.

[Pixel]

The Boost is indeed fun to watch for Speedruns and I'm a huge Speedrun fan. That said, I don't think a game should be designed around Speedrunning.

[Mad Convoy]

2 minutes ago, Lucid Dream said:

But I think for Sonic 2017 to really have an impact on us, it would need a updated and slightly transformed version of Sonic Lost worlds engine. If it's the boost engine, I'm sure it'll be a great game and everything, but it probably won't get over the controversy around Sonic and be critically acclaimed. Also, lets not forget that the Boost system would have been in place for 12 years when Sonic 2017 comes out. 

I'd think the opposite. Outside of SSMB, the boost formula is easily one of the most popular Sonic formulas, if not the most popular for 3D. On most websites, this isn't even a controversy and in some locations, people look down on those who don't like the boost (I am reserving my judgement on that because I know it will turn into a two paragraph tangent). The critics especially love it, so provided that Sonic Team didn't screw it up too badly, Sonic Team would get the instant hype and praise for using the Boost for Sonic 2017 like Mania did for being a Classic game.

But of course, that doesn't necessarily mean that a game taking after Lost World is going to bad. Parkour won't get the instant hype that boost or classic would get, but if Sonic Team makes it live up to its potential, people will warm up to it. If such a game turns out to be good, people will be really impressed, if not outright surprised, and that would also get Sonic over recent controversies and get the game critically acclaimed (provided the reviewers don't show their usual bias, that is).

There are many, many ways to fix a hedgehog.

[Hiki]

As much as I enjoy the other characters, I have a strong feeling that they won't return... SEGA's been avoiding them in 3D Modern Sonic games for ten years, and they keep talking about how they have to get Sonic's gameplay right first. Kind of a shame since the other characters add more replayability, and more variety (even if they do play like Sonic with their own abilities.). I definitely miss playing as Shadow, or even just Tails for that matter.

[Pixel]

I think the characters will probably be in, just not playable. That's the recent pattern.

If there's a resistance that hints at a whole ensemble of supporting characters. It's up in the air if they will be playable or not.

[Hiki]

Just now, Pixel said:

I think the characters will probably be in, just not playable. That's the recent pattern.

If there's a resistance that hints at a whole ensemble of supporting characters. It's up in the air if they will be playable or not.

If this turns out to be a resistance of every Sonic ever, I'm done! XD

I do hope the other characters are at least important in the game. Generations didn't make them all that important, and neither did Lost World, or Colors DS.

[JosepHenry]

No more new formulas please!

A improved boost formula is enough I guess. With more 3d than 2d please. And less linear. And boost like Sadv2 and 3

I would be happy :3.

[Cakito]

Yeah, I'd like Lost World controls mixed with the boost formula! That's the better control I can imagine.

[Spееdy]

If there are other characters playable, they better have their own stages, please. I watched playthroughs of Sonic Boom Fire & Ice and it annoyed me that you have multiple playable characters in that game who people are begging of to have in Sonic games recently, but they play Sonic-only anyway most of the time... Gotta go fast style, because it spells "Sonic" in the title. Ugh. So why other characters? You won't play as them anyway if Sonic is around and available, he's the fastest and all, most valuable...

So I figured that Sonic should be completely out of use sometimes, blocked and game forced to play as others the entire level, so that other characters had their credit too. I really liked the concept of Rise of Lyric in this matter (or Adventure series overall), so I wish to have something similar in '17 if there are other guys playable.

[MegasonicZX]

16 minutes ago, Spееdy said:

If there are other characters playable, they better have their own stages, please. I watched playthroughs of Sonic Boom Fire & Ice and it annoyed me that you have multiple playable characters in that game who people are begging of to have in Sonic games recently, but they play Sonic-only anyway most of the time... Gotta go fast style, because it spells "Sonic" in the title. Ugh. So why other characters? You won't play as them anyway if Sonic is around and available, he's the fastest and all, most valuable...

So I figured that Sonic should be completely out of use sometimes, blocked and game forced to play as others the entire level, so that other characters had their credit too. I really liked the concept of Rise of Lyric in this matter (or Adventure series overall), so I wish to have something similar in '17 if there are other guys playable.

As a big fan of how sonic adventure 1 did multiple characters I have to disagree with this. While having the other characters playable in their own stages would arguably give them more fleshed out gameplay in some cases, I don't think its a bad idea to give the player a choice like in the classic games and I certainly don't think it'd be a good idea to go back to forcing you to play as other characters because if history has taught us anything, not many people liked that so sega would be shooting themselves in the foot if they brought it back. I'd actually like to see booms idea expanded on in the future because, while not perfect, it gives you the option of playing as anybody you want on the fly without having to go back to character selects to choose them which in turn could open up the level design to a variety of play styles if done well.

[Spееdy]

I just get the feel that if you are switching characters on the go like that - Sonic is basically the only playable character and others are simple "wisps" kinda, to overcome a gimmick you are facing and then back to Sonic blasting through..

This is quite not right in my opinion. Playable characters should be treated as characters and not as "additional moves" to main character.

[MegasonicZX]

16 minutes ago, Spееdy said:

I just get the feel that if you are switching characters on the go like that - Sonic is basically the only playable character and others are simple "wisps" kinda, to overcome a gimmick you are facing and then back to Sonic blasting through..

This is quite not right in my opinion. Playable characters should be treated as characters and not as "additional moves" to main character.

I think thats always going to be a problem with the 2d games though since knuckles and tails have always been just sonic with a flight type of move and some slightly different value changes. Its why, like I said, that adventure 1 was my favorite with multiple characters because while it didn't change them terribly much compared to their 2D counterparts, the different level objectives they had made all of them feel like new but familiar experiences, everybody had the different objectives sure but with the exception of big (and maybe gamma if you want to stretch it) they never felt like they diverged from the series main strengths too much (trying to get to the end as fast as possible with platforming challenges throughout the stages) and they all controlled in the same way. 

[Ajavalo]

As a guy who likes both the Classic and Modern sides of Sonic, honestly, it saddens me whenever I see people with such an extreme opinion on the 3D games. Pretty much all of the playstyles we've had throughout the years have given me what I always look for in Sonic games and what makes it my favourite franchise: traversing huge, organic and beautiful environments at high speed, as if saying "the world is mine, and nothing can stop me!"; whether it's done via rolling and momentum, extremely fast movement and flashy setpieces, parkour or whatever. One of my fantasies is being able to traverse the world like Sonic does, I consider myself adventurous like him! 

I understand people may enjoy some playstyles more than others (just like me to some extent), but I have difficulty understanding why someone who is a Sonic fan or has enjoyed Sonic games before would see some of the games as totally intolerable pieces of frustration (Sonic 06 glitchiness aside, ofc).

On the subject of other playable characters, if all of them are given the basic goal of getting to the end of the level, they aren't that different from Sonic, and may give the game good replay value. Tails and Knuckles handled like in Sonic 3 and Sonic Adventure with a Spin Dash added (even Sonic 06 without the glitchiness) would be perfect.

[Pixel]

The problem with having multiple characters play the same stages is it creates repetition and doesn't always play to the character's strengths. Part of the reason Adventure was so bad was that you played the same levels over and over again. It worked in Sonic 3 because Knuckles had his own exclusive routes, but in Adventure you basically played shortened and gutted versions of Sonic's stages.

I think Adventure 2 did it better honestly, as the stages played to the character's unique abilities. The problem was that Adventure 2's alternate playstyles were terrible.

Another reason why multiple characters worked in Sonic 3 was that the levels were far more expansive and open ended. It's easier and far more efficient to make large 2D Sonic stages than 3D Sonic stages. If the levels get too large in 3D it becomes cluttered and unclear where you are supposed to go. Additionally, it must take ages to make Boost levels so massive. It's another reason why Sonic doesn't work in 3D.

I think if the multiple characters are playable then it would be best to give them their own levels. That said, I think it would be better if they weren't playable at all and Sonic Team focused on a way to actually make Sonic fun in 3D.

[Pixel]

The problem is that they have never gotten Sonic's gameplay to be satisfying in 3D. There's no point in trying to incorporate other characters with abilities that are challenging in a 3D space generally, such as flying, climbing and gliding, when they can't even get Sonic's core gameplay right. Without satisfying core gameplay, Sonic is always doomed to fail in 3D.

Yeah, ideally we could have multiple playable characters in 3D, but we are talking about Sonic Team here and they can't get the basics of Sonic right. From a purely practical viewpoint, we need to first nail Sonic's core gameplay. If Sonic Team incorporated the supporting cast now it would probably be a terrible and disastrous impulse that Sonic Team always seem to bring.

[Ajavalo]

^Any ideas for a 3D gameplay style that would feel more satisfying?

[Diogenes]

2 hours ago, Stephenb19 said:

The excuse that "We can't put in other characters until we get Sonic's gameplay right" just does not fly with me anymore. They've been saying this for ten years.

And they've still yet to get it right. They haven't settled down with one gameplay style because they haven't found one able to get enough people to pick up the controller in a way that's viable in the long term. And finding a successful style is only going to become more complicated the more characters and abilities they have to juggle.

2 hours ago, Stephenb19 said:

Sonic 06 essentially had this format - Three characters, three stories, and the only reason that didn't turn out great is because the development time was severely stunted.

Also because pretty much all of its ideas are terrible. Really. Just about all of them. '06 was never going to be a good game.

[Ghast06]

Project 17 looks like one of those games that may have a bigger range of playable characters (hopefully). I also do hope it's a "co-op" game as well. Just not sure how that will work. I do hope they bring back Silver in this game too. (Sorry I sound like a demanding 10 year old Sonic fanboy)

[Pixel]

I don't have clear ideas because I'm not a game designer, but I'd suggest looking at the glorious Classic formula and building from there. Make a playstyle that is built from freedom of movement, rolling and exploiting the physics of the game's mechanics.

For all its faults, Sonic's gameplay in Adventure 1 is probably the closest they have ever got to a good 3D Sonic game. I'd suggest taking that gameplay, going back to the drawing board and drastically improving the controls and camera. Then, designing a game dedicated to that one playstyle.

That's how I'd prefer a 3D title.

[Safka]

I think the Boost mechanic is actually pretty well perfected, the only thing they really need to improve is the walking controls.

I actually think introducing multiple characters would be a good way of building upon the Boost gameplay. It's a way of building upon an existing formula and making it fresh and exciting without needlessly innovating. It also would improve replay value because the levels could hide secrets for Tails, Knuckles and Co. The length of the Boost games is arguably one of their greatest weaknesses, do it would be a good way to address that.

[Hiki]

For gameplay, I know it's very unlikely, but I'd really like the Adventure style to return. That style just felt less linear, and the levels felt more open to me.

[Lucid Dream]

How can you actually add characters to the boost formula though? The boost formula emphasises speed, and Tails and Knuckles abilities don't mesh well with that. The glide and fly are both fairly slow abilities.

The only reason Blaze worked well as an alt character is because she had a similar gameplay to Sonic but with several key differences that really separated them. The boost formula isn't very forgiving to other characters. 

[Mad Convoy]

30 minutes ago, Lucid Dream said:

How can you actually add characters to the boost formula though? The boost formula emphasises speed, and Tails and Knuckles abilities don't mesh well with that. The glide and fly are both fairly slow abilities.

No, actually, they're not inherantly slow abilities. In fact, Tails's flying and Knuckles's gliding are both already pretty fast in most of the games they appear in (albeit with little acceleration). They can be coded to maintain the character's momentum when used, which would make them not slow provided you managed to get to a good speed beforehand.

Level design would be a tricker hurdle, since you'd have to account for the air as well as the land. But designing separate levels for Tails and Knuckles, as many have suggested here in the past, would do the trick.