Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Forte-Metallix]

That's called false advertising, and it would get them into a lot of trouble with the fans.

Do you realize just how pissed off fans would get if they got a game called Adventure 3 that played nothing like an Adventure game? It's disappointing not getting what you want, but getting what you want, and having it come nowhere near your expectations is far worse. And at this point, Sega can't afford to do something that underhanded.

[JezMM]

22 minutes ago, Forte-the-Bell-Tolls said:

That's called false advertising, and it would get them into a lot of trouble with the fans.

Do you realize just how pissed off fans would get if they got a game called Adventure 3 that played nothing like an Adventure game? It's disappointing not getting what you want, but getting what you want, and having it come nowhere near your expectations is far worse. And at this point, Sega can't afford to do something that underhanded.

The vast majority would not care one bit, but this is probably a good reason to never call a game Sonic Adventure 3, because nothing is ever going to be EXACTLY what SA3 fans want.  SA1 and SA2 were products of a very different time.

 

Having said that, no-one is bitter about Super Mario Bros. 2 or (in the US) "Super Mario World 2" so...

[Badnik Mechanic]

37 minutes ago, Terriful said:

It just seems to fit for some reason. I don't know why.

Absolutely nothing.

[MadmanRB]

a new character oh joy as if this fucking franchise doesn't have enough shit characters to deal with

[Darinian]

16 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

a new character oh joy as if this fucking franchise doesn't have enough shit characters to deal with

More like as if this franchise doesn't have enough barely used characters to deal with.

[Nepenthe]

21 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

a new character oh joy as if this fucking franchise doesn't have enough shit characters to deal with

Because they've been actively dealing with the entire cast for the past eight years.

[NegaMix]

If I had to wager a guess, maybe this "new character" (assuming it is brand new) ends up being used as an explanation for how and/or why Classic Sonic is helping his Modern self once more? After all, there's been no sign of a 'Time Eater 2.0' or anything similar as of yet, and the only known time-travellers in the series so far are Silver and Eggman Nega.

[MadmanRB]

16 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

Because they've been actively dealing with the entire cast for the past eight years.

Yeah but still why what's the point I mean seriously what the hell is a new character going to do in a franchise already overloaded with loads of characters that Sega doesn't give a shit about. Honestly I wonder what the fucking point is now because Sega is just going to pull something out of its ass like it usually fucking does. And people wonder why people are so fucking cynical about Sonic right now because every five fucking seconds Sega has to pull something out of their asses just to revive this franchise only to bury it in the mire of stupid ideas. This is why Sega is such a fucking laughing stock

[Nepenthe]

Using a bunch of "fucks" doesn't make your complaining anymore salient than it would be otherwise.

[Badnik Mechanic]

44 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

Yeah but still why what's the point I mean seriously what the hell is a new character going to do in a franchise already overloaded with loads of characters that Sega doesn't give a shit about. 

Well we don't know that yet because we know absolutely nothing about the game. 

So why are you getting so upset?

[MadmanRB]

Okay let me make this clear, remember the last time they made a Sonic game that was supposed to celebrate Sonics birthday that introduced a new main character?

 

Point is it didnt work so well that time now didnt it?

There is a reason why people liked generations, it understood that mucking about with the formula was not a good idea.

Still didnt stop them from making BOOM! But whatever.

Mucking about what makes the good games good is why the Sonic cycle exists, so when a crap game comes out we are put in the same loop as before.

 

[Lucid Dream]

11 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

Okay let me make this clear, remember the last time they made a Sonic game that was supposed to celebrate Sonics birthday that introduced a new main character?

Correlation does not equal causation. 

They probably still would've made a crap game, even if they used a different character instead of Silver. 

[MadmanRB]

Perhaps not but it does seem like a step in the wrong direction.

Creating a new character seems to be Segas sonic fallback when they know that they have a bad game in hand

[Badnik Mechanic]

1 minute ago, MadmanRB said:

Okay let me make this clear, remember the last time they made a Sonic game that was supposed to celebrate Sonics birthday that introduced a new main character?

And what does any of this have to do with a game that you know nothing about?

[Mad Convoy]

I find the "Sonic's shitty friends" argument to be very interesting because it usually only gets pulled out when the characters are written poorly, and not when the concepts behind the characters are bad.

For example, not a lot of people complained when Knuckles was introduced in Sonic 3 or Amy in Sonic CD. Why? Well, because Knuckles was portrayed well, and also had the benefit of being fun to play as. Amy also had a lot of adaptational expansion that made her interesting and a lot of fans liked the idea of Sonic having a little fangirl chasing him. E102 Gamma and Tikal also don't get a lot of complaints, because they were written really well too. Gamma had a compelling story about being a robot that's trying to do the right thing and also had an interesting perspective (that of a Flicky that had been roboticized). Tikal was more of a minor character, but she also was interesting for her desire to prevent Chaos from hurting everybody without having to hurt him, and for eventually learning that something had to be done to calm him and not fighting him was only prolonging the inevitable. Heck, a lot of fans clamor for their return, even though they're both dead. You might also be surprised to hear that the hatred for Shadow and Rouge is largely retroactive as they were both well-liked when SA2 came out-- probably because they were both written really, really well in that game as complicated characters. They only became unpopular when Sega started to write them poorly in games like Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 06.

But, you might say, that was back when people were more open to the idea of new characters. Now, you say, people don't want Sonic's friends because they've been burned by bad portrayals so many times. And for that, I'd point you to Sonic Colors DS, released in 2010 with Sonic 06 still fresh in everybody's minds. Not to be confused with the Wii version, this game was remarkably well-written with charming dialogue and good characterization. It featured a plethora of characters to give you missions, from Vector to Cream to Rouge and etc., and if you wanted to get all the red rings, you would have to speak to all of them at least once. And nobody complained about this. Nobody complained that they had to interact with the friends to 100% the game, or that they had to put up with them if they wanted to do a mission. Many even praised the use of the friends, as it gives the game variety, they're charming and even funny sometimes, and brings back some faces that the fandom had missed in Unleashed. While some made passing reference to the shitty friends argument with Gens, for the most part people were fine with the friends having minor parts in the game and featuring in the missions. Both Colors DS and Gens. are quite good in terms of gameplay too. Coincidence? I think not. Heck, even with Sonic Boom, which has had a really rocky ride since the start and is still a point of contention in some parts of the web, people are pretty accepting of Sticks, an original character exclusive to Boom and one Olympic game, because she's a unique character who doesn't get overused and adds an interesting angle to the overall group dynamic.

So from that, I think the problem isn't that there are new characters at all but rather that they're not being written well. Overcrowding is an issue too with main characters, but who said that every character featured had to be of utmost importance to the plot or that every character had to be featured at all? Besides, when Sonic Team or another developer does write a character well, people tend to like that character and not care much that its "yet another friend". People also tend not to mind the new characters when they're featured in games that don't suck. So whatever this new character is, Sonic Team just needs to write him/her/it well to get people to like him/her/it. Or, barring that, make Sonic 2017 excellent (which, might I add, it should be doing anyway) enough that people are able to set aside their story concerns.

[Menace2Society]

How is adding a new character in the game is gonna make it terrible? It's likely they'll probably be a one-shot character anyways.

Besides, don't they usually introduce a new character in the series in each new game, with a few exceptions?

[MadmanRB]

8 minutes ago, Mad Convoy said:

I find the "Sonic's shitty friends" argument to be very interesting because it usually only gets pulled out when the characters are written poorly, and not when the concepts behind the characters are bad.

For example, not a lot of people complained when Knuckles was introduced in Sonic 3 or Amy in Sonic CD. Why? Well, because Knuckles was portrayed well, and also had the benefit of being fun to play as. Amy also had a lot of adaptational expansion that made her interesting and a lot of fans liked the idea of Sonic having a little fangirl chasing him. E102 Gamma and Tikal also don't get a lot of complaints, because they were written really well too. Gamma had a compelling story about being a robot that's trying to do the right thing and also had an interesting perspective (that of a Flicky that had been roboticized). Tikal was more of a minor character, but she also was interesting for her desire to prevent Chaos from hurting everybody without having to hurt him, and for eventually learning that something had to be done to calm him and not fighting him was only prolonging the inevitable. Heck, a lot of fans clamor for their return, even though they're both dead. You might also be surprised to hear that the hatred for Shadow and Rouge is largely retroactive as they were both well-liked when SA2 came out-- probably because they were both written really, really well in that game as complicated characters. They only became unpopular when Sega started to write them poorly in games like Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 06.

But, you might say, that was back when people were more open to the idea of new characters. Now, you say, people don't want Sonic's friends because they've been burned by bad portrayals so many times. And for that, I'd point you to Sonic Colors DS, released in 2010 with Sonic 06 still fresh in everybody's minds. Not to be confused with the Wii version, this game was remarkably well-written with charming dialogue and good characterization. It featured a plethora of characters to give you missions, from Vector to Cream to Rouge and etc., and if you wanted to get all the red rings, you would have to speak to all of them at least once. And nobody complained about this. Nobody complained that they had to interact with the friends to 100% the game, or that they had to put up with them if they wanted to do a mission. Many even praised the use of the friends, as it gives the game variety, they're charming and even funny sometimes, and brings back some faces that the fandom had missed in Unleashed. While some made passing reference to the shitty friends argument with Gens, for the most part people were fine with the friends having minor parts in the game and featuring in the missions. Both Colors DS and Gens. are quite good in terms of gameplay too. Coincidence? I think not. Heck, even with Sonic Boom, which has had a really rocky ride since the start and is still a point of contention in some parts of the web, people are pretty accepting of Sticks, an original character exclusive to Boom and one Olympic game, because she's a unique character who doesn't get overused and adds an interesting angle to the overall group dynamic.

So from that, I think the problem isn't that there are new characters at all but rather that they're not being written well. Overcrowding is an issue too with main characters, but who said that every character featured had to be of utmost importance to the plot or that every character had to be featured at all? Besides, when Sonic Team or another developer does write a character well, people tend to like that character and not care much that its "yet another friend". People also tend not to mind the new characters when they're featured in games that don't suck. So whatever this new character is, Sonic Team just needs to write him/her/it well to get people to like him/her/it. Or, barring that, make Sonic 2017 excellent (which, might I add, it should be doing anyway) enough that people are able to set aside their story concerns.

The problem is that Sega isnt very good with this, they have proven time and time again that they are not so good with character creation.

7 minutes ago, CuzEyeCan said:

How is adding a new character in the game is gonna make it terrible? It's likely they'll probably be a one-shot character anyways.

Again the aforementioned Sonic 06 is your answer to that, all of its issues were from segas mandates and adding a new character just because they could

[StaticMania]

There are no exceptions, there have been new characters in every 3D game from Adventure onwards.

[MadmanRB]

1 minute ago, StaticMania said:

There are no exceptions, there have been new characters in every 3D game from Adventure onwards.

Indeed, thus is a part of my issue.

[Mad Convoy]

 

1 minute ago, MadmanRB said:

The problem is that Sega isnt very good with this, they have proven time and time again that they are not so good with character creation.

...I literally just demonstrated multiple examples of Sega creating good characters and writing them well, demonstrating Sega can be good at this and that people can accept new characters... I know I wrote a lot but I do expect you to read more than the last paragraph.

[Lucid Dream]

8 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

The problem is that Sega isnt very good with this, they have proven time and time again that they are not so good with character creation.

Again the aforementioned Sonic 06 is your answer to that, all of its issues were from segas mandates and adding a new character just because they could

Dude, are you actually going to argue your points? Or are you just going to carry on shitting on our arguments with your vague statements?

Saying "Oh no Sega made bad characters" without pointing out anything or making any further arguments is not cool. Also, correlation is not equal to causation, we've already explained this to you, but you completely ignore it and shove a 10 year old game down our throat as a reason why new characters are bad. At least try to explain how Silver is so horrifyingly bad, instead of assuming that it's fact and that we'll all acknowledge it. 

Your opinion is not fact, so actually make points and rebuttal properly, instead of just crapping on our arguments and ignoring them. 

[Menace2Society]

8 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

Again the aforementioned Sonic 06 is your answer to that, all of its issues were from segas mandates and adding a new character just because they could

No, the only issue with how 06 turned out was because of the fact that they rushed the shit out of it in order to release the game before year ended. Silver barely had anything to do with how that game turned out. (Even though, he's not really that good of a character.)

[Jango]

2 hours ago, Mayor D said:

Absolutely nothing.

None is right, tho...

We don't know anything about the gameplay. What if it does uses the Adventure formula (6 characters, diferent play-styles, darker plot)?

All we know is that so far it does not resemble an Adventure game... in fact, it doesn't resemble any game before it. The only hint that the teaser trailer gave (that is was actually Generations 2) was denied by Iizuka... Having Classic Sonic will be a regular thing from now on I believe, so it might not always imply a game with 3D/boost and 2D/side-scroling play-styles, with only the Sonics playable.

 

Edit: Oh God you guys are already talking about other subject, I gotta keep up with this thread.

Edited October 29, 2016 by Jango

[Mr. Armstrong]

The people outside of the fandom hate Sonic friends, the biggest problem with introducing a new character is the awful characterization that Sonic Team gives his characters.

[MadmanRB]

Okay fine lets list the crap characters Sega has made in the last decade and lets talk about why:

Shadow: Moody dark character that got to star in his own crap game

Silver: The cherry on top of the shit sandwich that was Sonic 06

Cream: Annoying

Big: Come on do I need to explain

Marine: Utterly pointless

Omega: only put in a game to fill up space

Blaze (to a point): Only made to be another pointless "rival", if it were not for her backstory i would say she would be a bad character

Jet: See Blaze

Amy Rose: This is your idea of a girlfriend for Sonic? (Mind you this is post adventure issues I have with her)

Rouge: Rude and obnoxious

I think the only good thing that Boom! ever did was limit the characters down to a select cast of playable characters but even that messed up by bringing us Sticks 

Look at the characterizations that Sega has given us and the stupid ideas they had.

Hey it wasnt my idea to make Sonic into a goddamned werewolf thats of sure.

Point is this franchise is already overloaded, or are we just so eager to have another Elise or Big the cat now?

Yeah didnt think so, I do hope the game is good yes but seeing that sega is pulling out the new character trick again doesnt bode well.