Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Bowbowis]

Honestly, I'm hoping that this "new character" is Adventure/Dreamcast Sonic. I know it'll never happen but a guy can dream right?

[Straw Hat]

I'm hoping that the "new component" could be other playable characters. For this game it'd make sense to use characters who have Modern and Classic forms, like Sonic, Tails, Knuckles and Amy. That could be "The Resistance".

[Zaysho]

@MadmanRB Not that you're not allowed to voice your concerns about whatever SEGA does, but check this obnoxious attitude, especially where you're calling members' tastes into question because they like things you don't. Any more of this garbage:

3 hours ago, MadmanRB said:

Ever hear of quality over quantity I think not. But hey you're a Dragon Ball Z fan I'm sure you're familiar with character overload something that obviously never happens in that miserable cuss of a franchise. No wait it does my bad but hey dragon Ball Z all about the cool Factor

You're seeing strikes. Knock it off. Being cynical about the direction of Sonic isn't an excuse for this sort of behavior.

[Neo_Fire_Sonic]

Maybe we'll get characters who haven't been relevant in the current titles like the chaotix and blaze or someone i'm forgetting.

I don't care if they have classic sonic, just as long as it is absolutely nothing like generations... like for instance having multiplayer story mode

[Sopor]

I know some people have acted unfairly and obnoxiously in this thread, but it's not like it's unwarranted that there's anxiety and discomfort for a new Sonic character.

Yes, hypothetically Sonic Team could get better writers, but strong characterisation has rarely, if ever, been a strong point in the franchise. Realistically speaking, the writing probably isn't going to get any better, so a new character does potentially (and probably) send alarm bells ringing. Let's not also forget how the Deadly Six were dull and uninspired, so it's not like they've improved on this recently.

[Blacklightning]

I honestly don't blame anyone for being pessimistic - lord knows I would've preferred they expand their usage of existing characters over making new ones myself. I just think it's way too early to be making a solid judgement call on it, because we know literally nothing besides that it's a new character. We don't know what species it is, we don't know what their role in the story is, whether it's a major or inoffensive role or even whether they're a protagonist or an antagonist yet. At least with the Deadly Six you could make an educated guess on how they'd be handled based on their looks and body language, even though I'm pretty sure they didn't actually speak in their original reveal? Correct me if I'm wrong on that.

As far as just writing quality goes, didn't LW's writers also contribute to Fire and Ice? Boom subseries be damned, I hear they actually did a pretty good job of that.

[Blazey Firekitty]

Having some of the older characters playable in this game would be a nice surprise, but as a second choice I'd easily settle for having them summoned like in those Generations missions.

I was pretty happy with Generations, so I'm really looking forward to this. From what little we know it keeps what I liked about that game without being a total rehash. Still, a complete 3D classic Sonic would be exciting if it ever happened in the future. Sega has shown that they're willing to hire fans to program nostalgia projects like that, so maybe in a couple years they could hire the likes of the Sonic Utopia or Green Hill Paradise creators to make something special.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I think it would be great if the new character was a revitalized Nack the Weasel. They'll dodge a lot of bullets if they did that.

[Blazey Firekitty]

*rimshot*

But seriously, no complaints here about Nack coming back, it would be a nice surprise after the Mania wanted poster cameo.

[Zaysho]

1 hour ago, Blacklightning said:

As far as just writing quality goes, didn't LW's writers also contribute to Fire and Ice? Boom subseries be damned, I hear they actually did a pretty good job of that.

Something to consider, and this is not to slam Pontaff's work, but I think part of this can be attributed to how they are directed and what material they're working with. Ken Pontac, for example, is a television writer and has written for kids' shows and animated series (and despite my dislike of his and Graff's Sonic work, I still praise the three episodes of Generator Rex he wrote), and those usually have established series bibles to guide writers. I don't think Sonic games ever strictly followed one, since things tend to vary from game to game, and I recall Pontac even saying that SEGA didn't give them much to work with or that he had to do outside research because he wasn't provided with anything. On the other hand, Boom, besides probably lending better to the pair's sensibilities, has a certain type of groundwork that the people who handle the Boom subseries expect them to work from.

While I'll freely admit that I dislike their output (be it their localization or their script for Lost World) and don't think it is above criticism, in a way, they are just following along with what SEGA/Sonic Team wants them to do, and they just don't have much to work with in comparison. The writers don't have to be fans, but I can't say I expect much from them when Sonic Team themselves aren't putting in more than the bare minimum effort and it's something I'd love to see changed.

On the other hand, we do have writers that are fans, like Ian Flynn, who do care and know the series like the back of their hand. While SEGA may not care too much about how the main series is handled, or the comic in this case (which is based on the main series' image), they do have certain mandates in places, and I imagine so long as he plays by those rules he's allowed to do whatever the hell he wants so long as it's within reason (hell, we still have the Freedom Fighters, Fang, Bark, Bean, Mighty, Ray, and Honey because of it).

[MadmanRB]

Ok since I need to back myself up here and since people dont get why a new character is a bad idea lets look at Sonics current roster:

First lets talk about the main cast:

First is Sonic himself, Sonic himself is fine as he is the hero and the main character.

Now yes Sonics purpose has kind of faded, his role as Marios Rival is long over as he was mostly Marios lap dog after Sega dropped making consoles.

But I see no reason why he should fade into nothing like most of the other characters in the franchise.

Next is Tails, Tails is Robin to Sonics Batman. Sure the side kick aspect is rather passe in todays market but Tails was there to be Sonics player 2 and there is nothing wrong here.

But then we get to Knuckles, seems like poor knux has had better days.

Knuckles was the original Shadow, Sonics rival and anti hero.

But it seems that knuckles has lost his purpose, his treasure hunting gameplay in SA1 and 2 is highly hated by most and while i actually like the Knuckles sections in SA1 and 2 they are hated with good reasons.

Now we get to Sonics other cast and here is where the mess of this franchise comes in.

Amy Rose in my mind is the worst Sonic character in terms of personality and presentation, heck i actually hate her more than Big the cat.

Amy is obnoxious, loud and sometimes very psychotic.

Sure playing as Amy in SA1 is actually fun as her other times she is playable but gameplay should not be the only reason why a character exists which is something Sonic has huge issues with 

The only real time i like Amy is in Boom and thats mainly the cartoons.

Next is the character most Sonic fans love, worship and put on a gold statue.

Shadow "I am the god of this franchise" the hedgehog

Lets make this clear: I hate Shadow

I hate his backstory

I hate his character

I hate his devoted fanbase who wanted more shadow and didnt care how good his game would be.

Look if you strip away his stupid backstory he is just another atypical evil twin character like out of a bad soap opera and as for gameplay he is just a black Sonic.

There is nothing special about him, a evil Sonic thats all he is.

And we already had that in metal sonic, and as for a rival for Sonic again we had Knuckles for this role.

There is no reason for him to exist other than "oh look he is so cool!"

If a character can play exactly like another why bother?

This is why I dont like Cream, we already had a flying character his name is Tails.

I mean again why does Cream exist? she has no reason to exist and was only made to fill in a spot in Sonic advance that did not need to be filled.

At least Big or Gamma had unique gameplay, there is nothing really new to Creams gameplay.

Heck i would have opted to use Rouge instead.

Speaking of, Rouge is another character who i really hate in terms of personality.

The only good thing about her is her gameplay but its Knuckles all over again and again why make her when Knuckles exists?

This is the redundancy issue that Pixel brought up, why add a new character when there are others who can do the same job?

Next is what i call the waste pile of characters, characters who existed only because Sega could make them

There is Silver created for a game that is a steaming pile of crap

Big the cat whos gameplay is broken

Gamma who is a one shot

The chaotix who existed for a game you need an emulator to play that is not that good

There are the arcade characters like Mighty and Ray and Fang, Sega just forgot they existed I guess.

There is Blaze who is yet another Sonic clone

Plus the others that i will not mention as this has gone on long enough I think.

Point is Sonics cast is already chalk filled with badly written, underused or forgotten characters so why is there another one being made?

What logical reason why this game needs another character to make it sell more?

There is no reason why a new character needs to be here, simply none

[FriendBot]

It really depends if this new character can add to the cast that the others can't, if they don't then I'd say we can start the "why add this character when a pre-existing character already does this" talk

[MadmanRB]

Well what new amazing thing can this new character do?

Fly? (Tails)

Psychic powers? (Silver)

Fire? (Blaze)

Dig? (Knuckles)

Time travel? (Silver)

Be utterly useless? (Big)

Water is the only real thing this series hasnt done yet with one of its playable characters (But we have Chaos anyhow so what is the point?)

That and electricity (Though knuckles did friggin Sith Lightning in SA2)

But overall face it there is no new gameplay unless you make another sue (and we already have plenty of them)

[Darinian]

30 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

Water is the only real thing this series hasnt done yet with one of its playable characters (But we have Chaos anyhow so what is the point?)

Marine in sonic rush adventure.

[MadmanRB]

Only by a small margin as the power was out of the ass

[Mad Convoy]

Last I checked, Sonic didn't operate on a "one-character-per-role" basis and never needed to, because having a bunch of characters with similar gameplay styles doesn't necessarily make those characters have a similar personality, the exact same plot relevance/actions, or even mean that the game has an over-inflated cast. Speaking of which, you haven't really elaborated on personality beyond saying "its terrible!" or explained why the stuff you complain about is bad. How has Sonic faded into nothing when he was one of the few characters retained in the Great Cast Purge of 2008? How does SA2 mean that Knuckles has lost his purpose when the game was released over 10 years ago? How is being a "one shot" like Gamma bad or not memorable (Gamma is looked upon fondly by many and is one of the few characters people can agree is good with a plotline that also has a rare amount of agreement in regards to opinions on quality)? How is Blaze a Sonic clone when her personality is almost complete different from Sonic?

Plus the characters you mention as being made just for the sake of making them actually did have a point. Big the Cat was important to SA1 because it was him that uncovered the Chaos Emerald that his frog ate and that Eggman needed for Chaos, and thus he went to go get his frog back-- the frognapping also became important in Gamma's story because his first test out in the field was to go find that darn frog and bring him to Eggman. Granted, you could argue that the frog is more important than he is, but I would say that if it weren't for Big finding the Emerald, his whole plot wouldn't have started and Gamma's would have been significantly altered. So he likely wasn't made "just because" or for money. Silver was important to Sonic 06 because he went back into the past to try to make a better future, changing the course of Sonic's story as Sonic would now have to deal with Silver thinking that he is evil, interfering with his attempt to save Elise and trying to get Silver not to kill him. Once they sorted those out, Silver enabled Sonic to time travel to before Elise's death by Eggman ship crash so he could prevent her death. Shadow's story was also affected by Silver since Shadow had disliked Silver for being an ally of Mephiles and tried to fight him. Once they sorted that out, Silver provided a key opportunity to explore Mephiles's backstory. He was also key to fighting Solaris and getting Sonic brought back to life. Now, he was written pretty poorly in that game, I'll give you that, but as you can see, he had a point in being there and wasn't made just for money or because why not. And of course, I'd like to point out that he was since retooled for games like Gens and Colors DS-- having both good writing and a purpose (he's a boss fight in the former and a mission-giver in the latter) in those titles. I could go on, but I think I've made my point.

49 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

I hate his devoted fanbase who wanted more shadow and didnt care how good his game would be.

Woah, woah, woah, this is getting into spiteful territory here. You have the right to dislike Shadow as a character, but to hate his entire fanbase for daring to express that they like him and want to see more of him is just plain petty and dismissive. Not to mention that you're holding them responsible for Sega and Sonic Team screwing up Shadow, even though the fandom wasn't responsible for developing the game or the decision-making behind the game, and the Shadow spinoff was a project the two companies were planning on doing anyways after Heroes.

[Cakito]

51 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

Well what new amazing thing can this new character do?

Fly? (Tails)

Psychic powers? (Silver)

Fire? (Blaze)

Dig? (Knuckles)

Time travel? (Silver)

Be utterly useless? (Big)

Water is the only real thing this series hasnt done yet with one of its playable characters (But we have Chaos anyhow so what is the point?)

That and electricity (Though knuckles did friggin Sith Lightning in SA2)

But overall face it there is no new gameplay unless you make another sue (and we already have plenty of them)

What? So you saying that there can't be is any new gameplay ideas for a new character?

Okay, let's go:

Sonic T. could make a character that teleports - that controls plants - that properly swims - that turns into a optimus prime - that explodes - that changes size of stuff - that changes gravity direction - that multiplies him/herself - or any other shit you'd imagine. Ideas never ends for games... 

Specially platformers like sonic... A new character doesn't necessarily means it will be a clone of some other character. Silver was the most different character of all games for me - his ability to manipulate the scenery and use it as a weapon was a very good idea... So... Well, yeah, maybe they clone some character but saying that this new character is a bad idea just because you can't imagine any gameplay ideas is just crazy.

[Blacklightning]

50 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

Well what new amazing thing can this new character do?

(list of abilities goes here)

Have you considered for a moment that maybe, just maybe, there's more to designing a character than just offloading a bunch of superpowers onto them? Hell, for that matter, have you considered yet that the new character might not even be playable? It's not like there isn't any precedent for it, especially when pretty much every character they've introduced from Unleashed onwards fits that bill and even pre-existing characters haven't been cut a break in that regard yet.

This is before you consider that even characters with very similar physical ability can still have entirely different playstyles, so summing everybody up with a single buzzword is kind of missing the point to be frank.

[MadmanRB]

17 minutes ago, Mad Convoy said:

Last I checked, Sonic didn't operate on a "one-character-per-role" basis and never needed to, because having a bunch of characters with similar gameplay styles doesn't necessarily make those characters have a similar personality, the exact same plot relevance/actions, or even mean that the game has an over-inflated cast. Speaking of which, you haven't really elaborated on personality beyond saying "its terrible!" or explained why the stuff you complain about is bad. How has Sonic faded into nothing when he was one of the few characters retained in the Great Cast Purge of 2008? How does SA2 mean that Knuckles has lost his purpose when the game was released over 10 years ago? How is being a "one shot" like Gamma bad or not memorable (Gamma is looked upon fondly by many and is one of the few characters people can agree is good with a plotline that also has a rare amount of agreement in regards to opinions on quality)? How is Blaze a Sonic clone when her personality is almost complete different from Sonic?

Plus the characters you mention as being made just for the sake of making them actually did have a point. Big the Cat was important to SA1 because it was him that uncovered the Chaos Emerald that his frog ate and that Eggman needed for Chaos, and thus he went to go get his frog back-- the frognapping also became important in Gamma's story because his first test out in the field was to go find that darn frog and bring him to Eggman. Granted, you could argue that the frog is more important than he is, but I would say that if it weren't for Big finding the Emerald, his whole plot wouldn't have started and Gamma's would have been significantly altered. So he likely wasn't made "just because" or for money. Silver was important to Sonic 06 because he went back into the past to try to make a better future, changing the course of Sonic's story as Sonic would now have to deal with Silver thinking that he is evil, interfering with his attempt to save Elise and trying to get Silver not to kill him. Once they sorted those out, Silver enabled Sonic to time travel to before Elise's death by Eggman ship crash so he could prevent her death. Shadow's story was also affected by Silver since Shadow had disliked Silver for being an ally of Mephiles and tried to fight him. Once they sorted that out, Silver provided a key opportunity to explore Mephiles's backstory. He was also key to fighting Solaris and getting Sonic brought back to life. Now, he was written pretty poorly in that game, I'll give you that, but as you can see, he had a point in being there and wasn't made just for money or because why not. And of course, I'd like to point out that he was since retooled for games like Gens and Colors DS-- having both good writing and a purpose (he's a boss fight in the former and a mission-giver in the latter) in those titles. I could go on, but I think I've made my point.

Woah, woah, woah, this is getting into spiteful territory here. You have the right to dislike Shadow as a character, but to hate his entire fanbase for daring to express that they like him and want to see more of him is just plain petty and dismissive. Not to mention that you're holding them responsible for Sega and Sonic Team screwing up Shadow, even though the fandom wasn't responsible for developing the game or the decision-making behind the game, and the Shadow spinoff was a project the two companies were planning on doing anyways after Heroes.

So you say that Sonic needs a billion trillion characters just to survive? Again explain to me why a new character is necessary when so many characters served the same roll. Face it this franchise is chock-full of characters who do the same freaking thing there's no need for all the excess baggage this franchise has carried. And I don't foresee why you would defend any of the transparent two dimensional characterizations that this franchise has given us for these characters. There's nothing special about Cream the Rabbit and her personality outside of her being another tag along kid or Amy Rose and her incessant need to chase Sonic around. Seriously look at these characters you're trying to defend and give them a second look from an outsider's perspective and you will see why I'm complaining about them because outside of superficial looks each character looks they're all the same character in terms of ability and the minor scratches of characterization buried underneath the muck and filth of this franchise. There's no way you can tell me the characters like Blaze are good characters outside of the miniscule pathetic story lines Sega has given us which they are very terrible at doing if these characters had more to them I would agree with you but I don't and I can't because I am a writer myself and I know how to manage characters and when you are a writer you need to look deeply into why a character needs to be and outside of the minor superficial characteristics and looks of these characters there's nothing special about them outside of the core characters who gets pushed back and become underdeveloped themselves I mean honestly what was the last time you had a good Tails moment or a knucklehead  moment no we need the magical great doom black Grimm the werewolf to do this with or or the ever famous magic Sparkle fluff the sheep to do this with

[Sonictrainer]

1 hour ago, MadmanRB said:

This is why I dont like Cream, we already had a flying character his name is Tails.

I mean again why does Cream exist? she has no reason to exist and was only made to fill in a spot in Sonic advance that did not need to be filled.

While Tails is Easy Mode, Cream is "Very Easy Mode".

In terms of story Cream is

• the only character, besides Eggman, that has a family member
• one of 4 recurring female characters, if we want to include Wave into that group
• our Chao Expert, which why she appears in the Chao Minigames with Cheese
• She's Amy's sidekick, like Tails is to Sonic

Quote

What logical reason why this game?

Each character has different limitations

[Badnik Mechanic]

Lol I love how we know nothing about this new character yet now people are looking for reasons to hate him... amazing.

Now the argument is "Well we already have X character who can do this so why do we need a new one."

Well how about, because it makes utterly no sense for existing characters to have that role? 

[Blacklightning]

4 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

So you say that Sonic needs a billion trillion characters just to survive? Again explain to me why a new character is necessary when so many characters served the same roll.

Literally nobody is insinuating that the franchise needs to constantly invent new characters every game in an ongoing bid for relevance, especially if they're going to be mainstays like Sonic and co - on the contrary, many of us have actually stated that this isn't our most desirable option. However, it needs to be said that we still know literally nothing about the new character beyond that it's new, and all the assumptions you are making are either wild, unfounded guesses or melodramatically blowing up other issues to the point of ludicrousness, to the point of putting words in people's mouths like you are here.

Would it kill you to at least wait for a screenshot before crying foul? A description? A name?

[MadmanRB]

1 minute ago, Mayor D said:

Lol I love how we know nothing about this new character yet now people are looking for reasons to hate him... amazing.

Now the argument is "Well we already have X character who can do this so why do we need a new one."

Well how about, because it makes utterly no sense for existing characters to have that role? 

Again you don't get narrative seems like nobody does in this fandom it seems and how do you know it's going to be a male character? If anything this character I think should be female to round off the cast a little bit and perhaps even give Sonic a better love interest who is not Shadow

[Mad Convoy]

But I didn't say anything about a billion characters... or survival. So I think its safe to say that I don't think Sonic needs a billion characters to survive.

Judging by the fact that your response blatantly puts words in my mouth and ignores my explanations, I think you aren't reading all of what I'm writing to you. And before you mention it, your head cold is a poor excuse for bad debating. If you really aren't mentally ready for debating because you're sick, the solution isn't to charge headlong into them and hope people will give you sympathy points and leniency for it, but rather to not be getting involved in or disengage from debates until you're over the cold and are mentally ready to listen and respond well.

Sonictrainer said basically what I was going to say in regards to character purpose. I also explained a few pages back how Shadow and Knuckles, despite both filling the rival role for Sonic, act completely different from each other and are by no means clones or redundant. While I was aware of these characters before 2010, I didn't actually get into the franchise until Colors, which was long after Sega decided to drop much of the extended cast. So in a way, I am seeing these characters from an outsider's perspective because I wasn't around when they were in the spotlight and they primarily feature in games for consoles that I don't own.

And I can think of plenty of good Tails moments-- the Wisp translator, his quick thinking that allowed him to escape the roboticizer that Zavok had trapped him in, and lots of funny moments in Boom TV. Knuckles gets a good moment here and there too in Boom, though its less common (Him standing up to Charlie comes to mind).

Besides, as Blacklightning pointed out, we don't even know the name of this new character-- so how on earth can we judge his/her quality?

[MadmanRB]

_{well that part I think it's coming from the medicine I'm taking for my cold sometimes it interferes with the meds I take for my bipolar disorder and interrupts my train of thought and I do apologize for that at least yes my negative opinions stand however they were Amplified by the over-the-counter medicines I'm taking for my head cold. Again this is all just bad timing I'm normally much better at this and this is all initial reactions in the end}