No more yearly releases

[Baraksha]

I am really truly exited for both Sonic Mania and Project 2017 and I can't wait to get my hands on both and I am exited to hear that Sonic Team are taking their time on this one. But I was thinking about something lately, I am just so used for sonic games to have yearly releases that I don't think i'll be that patiant. Yeah I can play other games and I am, but sonic is something special for me, it's that one series that I am always awaiting for, and I think I got a bit spoiled by sonic team rushing the games to come out every year that the though of having to wait longer is kind of scary. I'm not dare to say that sonic team should keep rushing games, but I really hope they at least do something to keep us bussy, this year I learned just how impatiant I am with sonic games, I had to wait since boom for a new game and runners was nice but it wasn't enough, I was just beging for something new. I mean sonic is mostly a single player game and while I do love replaying his games for a very long time , even a whole year in my case. you can replay the old ones for so long. I don't think its enough to keep me accupied up until the next game. I just having the though that. "What if now I only have 1 sonic game per 3-5 years , and so I will have like 3 or 6 games until the rest of my life" but then I relized, thats silly. what if they will accupie us by releasing more classic sonic games by christian whitehead and cannonhead or maybe more spinoff games and Boom games, not to mention the movie and other media's. Hack, why not finally even work on other franchises, I know what I said about how i'm impatiant with sonic specificaly , but i'm still a sega fan aswell, i'm still  dying for ports for shenmu 1 and 2 for pc and especially jet set radio future.

Anyways , what do you think sega can do to accupy the fans so sonic team won't have to rush their games? And did you learn to be as impetiant as me when it comes to sonic?

[ChikoLad]

I'm pretty sure SEGA is trying to set up a scenario where they have multiple developers putting out Sonic games to make sure the years are occupied. As well as collaborations with other games.

It might not necessarily equate to a big release every single year, but I think the 2015 drought was an exception, not a rule.

I mean you have Sonic Team seemingly working on Project 2017 for a long time. They put out Runners in the meantime, probably having a small section of Sonic Team for that. Then we have Sanzaru working on Fire & Ice right now. If Fire & Ice turns out good and sells well, I'm sure we can expect more Boom games to help fill gaps, which will be handled by Western developers like Sanzaru. We did get Sonic Dash 2: Sonic Boom too, in 2015. Sonic Dash receives ongoing support. And hopefully, if Sonic Mania does well (I'm confident it will), then maybe the team that worked on it can become a dedicated team for 2D/Classic Sonic games (which might encourage Sonic Team to not rely on those aspects as much in their own games). I could also see Sonic Team giving a smaller mobile game another go or something.

Another thing of note is that it's likely Project 2017 is taking a long time because they are building it more or less from the ground-up. When that game is finished, they can re-use the engine, as well as assets like Sonic's model and programming, for their next project so it shouldn't take as long.

Also I'm sure we'll see the Mario & Sonic Olympic games continue to release every second year.

And I know a lot of people don't count this, but to me, Sonic in LEGO Dimensions is basically a game release for me. I don't have LEGO Dimensions, but I want it now because the way they did Sonic in that game, makes it so that you may as well be playing a Sonic game while playing as Sonic in LEGO Dimensions. So yeah, that's gonna fill my need for a 3D Sonic game until Project 2017 comes out, personally. I can just play through most of the game as Sonic, and suddenly, it's a new Sonic game!

[Baraksha]

11 minutes ago, ChikoLad said:

 

Another thing of note is that it's likely Project 2017 is taking a long time because they are building it more or less from the ground-up. When that game is finished, they can re-use the engine. As well as assets like Sonic's model and programming, for their next project so it shouldn't take as long.

 

Shit , I should have though of that. Thanks

Also I agree lego dimention's sonic apearance  look amazing . But I tried looking into lego dimentions and it looks...not to worth it for me. As much as I love sonic I don't feel like buying this game just so I can use this one sonic aspect of it.

[Betz]

20 minutes ago, ChikoLad said:

I'm pretty sure SEGA is trying to set up a scenario where they have multiple developers putting out Sonic games to make sure the years are occupied. As well as collaborations with other games.

I hope that's the case because I cant handle another 5 years without a main series title. Or more for a classic title.

[JezMM]

We've had Sonic Runners, Mario & Sonic Rio and soon Sonic Boom Fire & Ice this year.  Can't say they aren't providing in spin-offs.  If those aren't good enough then that's too bad really.  Games need a good amount of time to make and I'd rather they take as long as they need so each new addition is an amazing experience, rather than a half-baked game every year.

There's no shortage of back catalogue main series Sonic to play to get your fix while they work on each new one.

[ChikoLad]

Also I find ROM hacks, mods, and fan-games really help fill the gap in between Sonic games. I've played a good few in the last two or three years as I waited (I skipped RoL and Shattered Crystal, so I haven't had a brand new Sonic game that wasn't on mobile since Lost World).

[Baraksha]

1 hour ago, ChikoLad said:

Also I find ROM hacks, mods, and fan-games really help fill the gap in between Sonic games. I've played a good few in the last two or three years as I waited (I skipped RoL and Shattered Crystal, so I haven't had a brand new Sonic game that wasn't on mobile since Lost World).

Oh yeah, I play those two. You know what? On second though there is to many stuff to occupy me, I think that this year I was just very tense and exited because I was woried about sonic's future after sonic boom. I mean everyone was on the edge of leaving the series and I had to know if whatever they had next could save them or they would lose everyone's interest. But I feel more calm now that I finally know what the future for sonic is. 

[TheLaw34]

1 hour ago, ChikoLad said:

Another thing of note is that it's likely Project 2017 is taking a long time because they are building it more or less from the ground-up. When that game is finished, they can re-use the engine, as well as assets like Sonic's model and programming, for their next project so it shouldn't take as long.

What makes this likely? Have they made any comments on the engine? If we are speculating I would say that it's likely they are finally ditching making their own engine and switching to something like unreal which they can edit to suit their needs.

[Sega DogTagz]

2 hours ago, Baraksha said:

"What if now I only have 1 sonic game per 3-5 years , and so I will have like 3 or 6 games until the rest of my life

Are you selling your life expectancy kind of short? You must be straight chain smoking six packs a day on top of riding a nasty addiction to junk food and sugar.

lol

Seriously though, if Sonic Team has a commitment to quality, then they can take as long as the need to work on their games. If they want to release them faster, then they need larger teams, simple as that. As long as we get quality stuff like ASR to hold us over - then I think I can wait longer between franchise installments.

 

[Milo]

If you ask me, dropping the yearly release schedule is something Sonic needed to do a long time ago, at least in terms of the main games. A major reason that can be said as to why (cue the groans) Mario games turn out as polished as they do, and subsequently are as well-received/appreciated as they are is because they have relatively few releases a console generation. That not only gives the developers enough time to work out their game design and provide enough game content, it also allows the game formula of the previous game to actually settle in long enough to audiences to know what to expect. It also helps the IP (or that specific line of IP, if you're not factoring spinoffs) from overexposure and franchise fatigue.

The previous generation in terms of Sonic releases was, to put it mildly, ridiculous--including the Storybook spinoffs (which ST made, back when they were split into two groups), you had six games, all consecutive yearly releases. Mario in comparison had half as much, and all three of those games all reviewed and sold much, much better than even the best-reviewed and/or best selling Sonic games in that bunch. So far, we just have Lost World and the pending Project Sonic 2017 as the eighth-generation games...which I think should likely be enough for this generation. If Project Sonic 2017 does have a new gameplay style (or continues off Lost World) that they want as the foundation of Sonic going forward, then they really need to give it time to settle into the market. And if Sega really wants to emphasize focusing on quality with Sonic, then their developers should start getting accustomed to a Sonic game with a three-six year development cycle.

And while they're at it, Sonic Team could also stand to get back to working on original IPs or former IPs during their downtime. It would certainly help prevent the studio from padding Sonic games with ideas they'd probably like to do without having to shoehorn it into a Sonic game for sales. :v

Edited July 27, 2016 by Gabe
Fixed the fragment I left hanging on Mario

[ChikoLad]

59 minutes ago, TheLaw34 said:

What makes this likely? Have they made any comments on the engine? If we are speculating I would say that it's likely they are finally ditching making their own engine and switching to something like unreal which they can edit to suit their needs.

Common game development sense?

Even if they used something like UE4, they would have to heavily retool it for their specific needs. Most AAA games that use these engines don't just straight up use them, they generally heavily modify them.

In any case, there is no reason why they would switch engines mid-console generation, unless the first game is bad for some reason (like Sonic '06). Unleashed, Generations, and Lost World all use the same engine and even similar model formats and everything. It saves development time and cost. No need creating a new engine when you already have one that works and character models and a gameplay template that do the job perfectly (though Lost World changed this while still using the same engine). You just create the new levels and mechanics on top of what you already built, and polish what was there before.

[Baraksha]

3 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Are you selling your life expectancy kind of short? You must be straight chain smoking six packs a day on top of riding a nasty addiction to junk food and sugar.

lol

well, I guess that description was a bit oversaturated . But I am not the most active preson and I even have something called long QT syndrom

[TheLaw34]

3 hours ago, ChikoLad said:

Common game development sense?

Even if they used something like UE4, they would have to heavily retool it for their specific needs. Most AAA games that use these engines don't just straight up use them, they generally heavily modify them.

In any case, there is no reason why they would switch engines mid-console generation, unless the first game is bad for some reason (like Sonic '06). Unleashed, Generations, and Lost World all use the same engine and even similar model formats and everything. It saves development time and cost. No need creating a new engine when you already have one that works and character models and a gameplay template that do the job perfectly (though Lost World changed this while still using the same engine). You just create the new levels and mechanics on top of what you already built, and polish what was there before.

Okay? but I'm not asking why they would reuse the engine after they make it. I am asking why you think it's likely they are making a new one from scratch in the first place? yes the engine would need to be retooled as I said in my original post however you are suggesting doing more than retooling one. You are suggesting building one completely from scratch.

What do you have to support the theory that they are making one from scratch and not starting from a base like unreal? Or are you speculating purely on the fact the the new game is taking a long time? I would say that adapting an engine would also take work.

[pppp]

Here's an idea: In between Sonic games how about a new Nights game or a new Phantasy Star game? Some other classic IP that they have? Seriously why can't they bring out their other stuff once in a while?

[Hyp3hat]

20 minutes ago, pppp said:

Here's an idea: In between Sonic games how about a new Nights game or a new Phantasy Star game? Some other classic IP that they have? Seriously why can't they bring out their other stuff once in a while?

The main reason why SEGA isn't utilising their old IPs any more is because the culture that produced them is no longer present - those were mostly not developed by SEGA 'in-house' by a studio like Sonic Team, rather by studios SEGA owned, like AM-2 (Shenmue, Virtua Fighter, Outrun), Hitmaker (Crazy Taxi), or United Game Artists (Space Channel 5, REZ), which is a small but crucial distinction. SEGA have sold off or assimilated those studios as their profits declined, and now they have a bunch of smaller studios with different IPs - this article breaks it down fully https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_development_studios#Team_list

I'm sure they still own their IP, but they have drastically reduced their manpower and game development is more expensive than its ever been.

As for NiGHTS specifically, as SEGA could still develop that in-house, here's probably a bunch of reasons for that - somewhere deep in the bowels of SEGA, there's an accountant who has told them, based on Journey of Dreams and the remaster' sales figures, that a new Nights game wouldn't be financially feasible.

There's also the issue of the execs not wanting to split Iizuka's attention - Nights is pretty much his baby (he designed Into Dreams, and wrote, produced, directed, and designed JoD), and if SEGA are trying to repair Sonic's image they don't need him ditching that to make another NiGHTs game. 

This sucks, as a new Nights game would make me a very happy chappy, but while Sonic's struggling, it's not looking likely.

[ChikoLad]

3 hours ago, TheLaw34 said:

Okay? but I'm not asking why they would reuse the engine after they make it. I am asking why you think it's likely they are making a new one from scratch in the first place? yes the engine would need to be retooled as I said in my original post however you are suggesting doing more than retooling one. You are suggesting building one completely from scratch.

What do you have to support the theory that they are making one from scratch and not starting from a base like unreal? Or are you speculating purely on the fact the the new game is taking a long time? I would say that adapting an engine would also take work.

 

Because they haven't mentioned using UE4 or anything like that yet.

Most games that use UE4 always announce it from the get go because it's an easy way to sell the game's potential graphical fidelity to casual consumers who don't know any better.

[Guest]

I`m pretty sure we`ll be

13 hours ago, ChikoLad said:

I'm pretty sure SEGA is trying to set up a scenario where they have multiple developers putting out Sonic games to make sure the years are occupied. As well as collaborations with other games.

It might not necessarily equate to a big release every single year, but I don't think the 2015 drought was an exception, not a rule.

I mean you have Sonic Team seemingly working on Project 2017 for a long time. They put out Runners in the meantime, probably having a small section of Sonic Team for that. Then we have Sanzaru working on Fire & Ice right now. If Fire & Ice turns out good and sells well, I'm sure we can expect more Boom games to help fill gaps, which will be handled by Western developers like Sanzaru. We did get Sonic Dash 2: Sonic Boom too, in 2015. Sonic Dash receives ongoing support. And hopefully, if Sonic Mania does well (I'm confident it will), then maybe the team that worked on it can become a dedicated team for 2D/Classic Sonic games (which might encourage Sonic Team to not rely on those aspects as much in their own games). I could also see Sonic Team giving a smaller mobile game another go or something.

Another thing of note is that it's likely Project 2017 is taking a long time because they are building it more or less from the ground-up. When that game is finished, they can re-use the engine, as well as assets like Sonic's model and programming, for their next project so it shouldn't take as long.

Also I'm sure we'll see the Mario & Sonic Olympic games continue to release every second year.

And I know a lot of people don't count this, but to me, Sonic in LEGO Dimensions is basically a game release for me. I don't have LEGO Dimensions, but I want it now because the way they did Sonic in that game, makes it so that you may as well be playing a Sonic game while playing as Sonic in LEGO Dimensions. So yeah, that's gonna fill my need for a 3D Sonic game until Project 2017 comes out, personally. I can just play through most of the game as Sonic, and suddenly, it's a new Sonic game!

 I completely agree, I was honestly surprised how well they made Sonic work in Dimensions too. 

[TheLaw34]

5 hours ago, ChikoLad said:

 

Because they haven't mentioned using UE4 or anything like that yet.

Most games that use UE4 always announce it from the get go because it's an easy way to sell the game's potential graphical fidelity to casual consumers who don't know any better.

True, I still hold them both as a fairly likely though.

 

 

[NintendoSoul]

I get why you're against yearly releases, but I think you need to separate the main games from the spin-offs here.

Sonic: Lost World, the previous main game, was released in 2013. The main game before that, Sonic Generations,was in 2011. These new main games won't be out until next year, so I think the wait is evenly paced.