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YelloGecko

What was the problem with Heroes?

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Okay so the controls aren't perfect, the teamwork mechanic needs work, and the VO's...well typical, lol. But despite many of its flaws, Sonic Heroes DID do a lot of things right. Things that could've probably pulled the series out of its slump since then if they just stuck with the formula (instead of chop and screw it with Shadow's game using the engine). So why is it that out of all the Sonic games, Heroes can't seem to catch anything close to a break from the general fan consensus?

What did you guys think of Heroes (like/dislike), why do you feel that way, and what do YOU think is the reason for the cold-to-indifferent reaction over it? Cuz quite frankly, I don't have a consistent clue :/

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You pretty much already mentioned all of my problems with the game and that's why I honestly can't stand it.

The team system was flawed which made the gameplay suffer, the level design wasn't that good, the game looked terrible visually, the voice acting was bad, and you had to play through the same bad game four times over in order to get the real ending.

This is completely ignoring my personal qualms that I have with that travesties they called 'Super Tails' and 'Super Knuckles' at the end of the game.

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Yeah I feel you on those issues, but many of the elements they did right are a lot of things Sonic fans gripe about in other games. Their old-school spirit, for instance, was front and center in this game. From the colorful graphics to the Special Stages to the main focus on speed instead of a bunch of other modes tacked onto it (SA2 for instance), it was a definite step in the right direction. The teamplay wasn't terrible; it could've worked a lot smoother but it was still usable. I just don't see how this particular game seems to get more flak than the others.

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I'm pretty sure Sonic '06 and Shadow the Hedgehog get a lot more flak than Heroes does and I happen to enjoy both of those more than Heroes for the most part.

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Hated the plot.

Poor Eggman spends the entire game in a prison cell, and then gets mindlessly beat up by Charmy, a character I found annoying to begin with.

This game was basically Takashi Iizuka beating up on Eggman, which he would continue to do in Shadow the Hedgehog, with those abominable death sequences. I've come to accept that Iizuka just doesn't like Eggman, since the Doc gets such poor treatment when he's in charge.

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I agree the characters looked terrible, but one thing I will give this credit for is Grand Metropolis. That was one gorgeous level. I was dissapointed that Empire City chose a boring "above the cloud cover" city level approach after the detail on a game as far back as Heroes.

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I thought the graphics were gorgeous. I don't understand how someone can say it looks terrible visually, aside from the brightness. There's a lot of detail in the backgrounds and textures.

The thing that made the game lose major points for me was its physics engine. It just felt weak compared to the Adventures.

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That's another thing I noticed about the Heroes criticism. Most of it is aimed toward the plot of the game, which is admittedly pretty lackluster. But then why are the Sonic games light on story, heavy on gameplay suddenly lauded for that direction, while the more plot-heavy titles (Sonic 06, Shadow, etc.) crapped upon for it, among other things?

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When Sonic Heroes was first announced I was all psyched about it. I actually loved the Sonic Adventure games. And I was really hoping that Sonic Heroes would be the Sonic Adventure 3 I was waiting for. But it wasn't. The camera sucked but I was able to look over that since it also sucked in both Sonic Adventure games. But it also suffered from something else all 3D Sonic games suffer from. BUGS!

I was just running like you do in Sonic games and got to a wall. But instead of stopping, I ran right through it and died. It happened to me when I played the demo and then it happened again when I bought the game on release day. I never did finish the game because it just lost my interest. Hell, I even played all the way through Sonic 3D Blast.

I will one day finish it, but I haven't picked it up in 5 years.

It was a bad game for it's time, but after the newer Sonic games, it really isn't all that bad. lol

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Bad controls, game was ugly, because of the whole team idea everyone felt gimped, shitty boss fights, too "kiddy", enemies that took 50 hits to kill, nonstop annoying talking from the characters, halfassed return of Shadow, no fight with normal Metal Sonic, and the plot/writing was just awful.

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I loved this game, it wasn't as good as the two Adventure games or Unleashed (360) but it was still awesome none the less, well, when playing as Team Sonic anyway.

The graphics, music and overall feel of the game made for a game that felt alot like one of the old Mega Drive games with some new elements of its own, and I love that.

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When Sonic Heroes was first announced I was all psyched about it. I actually loved the Sonic Adventure games. And I was really hoping that Sonic Heroes would be the Sonic Adventure 3 I was waiting for. But it wasn't. The camera sucked but I was able to look over that since it also sucked in both Sonic Adventure games. But it also suffered from something else all 3D Sonic games suffer from. BUGS!

I was just running like you do in Sonic games and got to a wall. But instead of stopping, I ran right through it and died. It happened to me when I played the demo and then it happened again when I bought the game on release day. I never did finish the game because it just lost my interest. Hell, I even played all the way through Sonic 3D Blast.

I will one day finish it, but I haven't picked it up in 5 years.

It was a bad game for it's time, but after the newer Sonic games, it really isn't all that bad. lol

Lol forreal though, that's what I'm getting at. I didn't experience those type of bugs exactly, 'cept for a few cases of falling through a platform here and there. And yeah camera really did suck. There were many glitches that I pointed out from the get-go, but all I'm trying to say is that it isn't THAT bad. And yet, with all the suckier titles that succeeded it, whenever anyone mentions the brighter spots of Sonic's next-gen history, they won't even speak of Heroes.

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What was the problem with Heroes?
1. The story. The Adventures got us used to having a pretty solid story in these games, and Heroes completely failed to deliver. And it's not just that it was light on story; no, it was a story that could've been genuinely interesting, but ended up being stripped down to nothing more than alternating between "hey let's go get Eggman" and "oh look another team let's beat them up" with "oh hey Metal Sonic" tacked onto the end. The dialogue's crap too; poorly written, with some of the worst acting I've seen from these people. And Tails' new voice was abysmal.

2. The graphics. Goddamn are the characters ugly in this game. Poorly modeled and ridiculously shiny, they look like cheap knock-off toys. The levels are better, but considering they were trying to recapture the classic style to an extent they didn't do too good of a job. Everything kind of feels fake.

3. The bosses. They are all bad, without exception. The team battles may as well be random, it's almost impossible to attack a moving boss (making the albatross an incredible amount of bullshit), and the robot storms...probably the closest thing to good, since they make good use of the whole team, but still pretty lame.

4. The controls. You slide around way too much, Knuckles and Omega's punching attacks tend to launch you right off the level, the homing attack isn't anywhere near as reliable as it used to be, the flight is crippled, the rocket accel fails to go off more often than not, rail switching is suicidal, and you can't always rely on your partners to be ready when you want to switch. And of course there's the times when the game just doesn't like you and throws you into a pit.

5. The special stages. Honestly I don't have any strong feelings one way or the other as far as having them. But they're so poorly programmed and buggy here that every time I'm reminded of them I'm tempted to change my mind. Seriously, the best part about them is that odd super jump bug with the power characters that lets you finish it in seconds, so you don't have to put up with the bullshit.

6. The teams. First off, we've got 4 near-identical teams with near-identical levels, and they expect us to go through all of that to reach the final boss. I like having other characters that play like Sonic, but they really should be optional. Second, the system cripples every character. For Speed, the spindash is replaced with the barely functional rocket accel, the enemy HP makes killing anything a pain, and the constant switching (especially when it isn't a smooth switch) interrupts what should be a speedy experience. For Flight, the flight timer is way too short and you can barely get any height, plus the flight characters are the weakest of the bunch which makes killing things even worse for them than the speed characters, also they're slow as fuck. The power characters can actually kill things, but that comes at the expense of, again, being slow as fuck, and also having a worthless-without-a-fan glide, a punch that will throw you off the edge, and their most useful attack requires the other two characters to function properly. And shall I mention yet again just how frustrating it is to get them to cooperate? For a game about teamwork it's amazing how difficult it is to do anything that requires more than just the character you're controlling.

And yet, with all the suckier titles that succeeded it, whenever anyone mentions the brighter spots of Sonic's next-gen history, they won't even speak of Heroes.
Heroes is not a bright spot. Though it depends on who you ask, an awful lot of people (myself included) mark Heroes as the first real dark spot on Sonic's record, the game that started his descent into crap. Now, it's true that it isn't as bad as ShtH, SatBK, or '06. But it's still a crappy game.

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I think the reason why I didn't care much for Sonic Heroes was the fact that I hyped it up in my head so much that it didn't meet my expectations. It just seems like after Sega went Third Party, the quality of their games went down. And not just Sonic games either.

Sonic Heroes is a playable game. I hear Sonic the Hedgehog Next Gen was way worse though. Apparently it's so poorly made many people can't even finish it. But I don't know since I've yet to play it. All this talk is actually making me think about going back and finishing Sonic Heroes soon.

But as I've said many times, one day they'll get it right.

Edited by Joseppi

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Just to clarify I didn't hate Heroes. I enjoyed it, hell I can forgive most of it's problems. I just mostly hated the fact that the game was so "kiddy". Not that I want "mature" Sonic either mind you. I just think Heroes took it too far. Fighting Amy to not marry her, a date to die for, the super power of team work, etc. It was a real turn off to me. I would have enjoyed the game more with no story at all tbh. I think SU got the story tone almost perfect for comparison.

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The dialogue's crap too; poorly written, with some of the worst acting I've seen from these people. And Tails' new voice was abysmal.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that. Tails annoyed the hell out of me. He couldn't even speak proper English. "Look at all those Eggman's robots!" That actually was the first thing about that game that annoyed me. He said it within a few minutes of starting the game.

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Okay so the controls aren't perfect, the teamwork mechanic needs work, and the VO's...well typical, lol. But despite many of its flaws, Sonic Heroes DID do a lot of things right. Things that could've probably pulled the series out of its slump since then if they just stuck with the formula (instead of chop and screw it with Shadow's game using the engine). So why is it that out of all the Sonic games, Heroes can't seem to catch anything close to a break from the general fan consensus?

I actually place Heroes as the second-worse main series Sonic game. Right above S06, right below ShTH. Why?

The positive:

+ The team system was original-ish

+ Brought back a few classic characters

+ Brought back Emerald-collecting

+ Brought back checkers

+ Tails follows you again

+ Longer levels

+ Funny-ish moments

The negative:

- Horrible controls

- Crazy camera

- Glitchy levels (I always fall through the floor)

- Extremly bad boss fights

- TOO long of levels

- Shallow team system

- Glitchy Special Stages with a sticky-roof- Awful, shiney character models

- Narmy story

- Un-inspired levels

- Boring enemies

- Awful dialog

- Randomly changed the style (from real-ish to checkers)

- Brought back characters badly (Team Chaot- what?, ditched a member [not like Mighty was that good in the first place])

- Stupid AI (the collect rings automatically, which pervents me from doing the light speed dash)

As you can see, the bad undos any of the good in the game. Keep in mind this is my opinion and the GC version of the game.

Edited by BlazingTales

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I actually place Heroes as the second-worse main series Sonic game. Right above S06, right below ShTH. Why?

The positive:

+ The team system was original-ish

+ Brought back a few classic characters

+ Brought back Emerald-collecting

+ Brought back checkers

+ Tails follows you again

+ Longer levels

+ Funny-ish moments

The negative:

- Horrible controls

- Crazy camera

- Glitchy levels (I always fall through the floor)

- Extremly bad boss fights

- TOO long of levels

- Shallow team system

- Glitchy Special Stages with a sticky-roof- Awful, shiney character models

- Narmy story

- Un-inspired levels

- Boring enemies

- Awful dialog

- Randomly changed the style (from real-ish to checkers)

- Brought back characters badly (Team Chaot- what?, ditched a member [not like Mighty was that good in the first place])

- Stupid AI (the collect rings automatically, which pervents me from doing the light speed dash)

As you can see, the bad undos any of the good in the game. Keep in mind this is my opinion and the GC version of the game.

I have to agree with everything you said there. And I own the Gamecube version too. Sonic Heroes could have really been a fantastic game if they had spent more time on it.

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I have to agree with everything you said there. And I own the Gamecube version too. Sonic Heroes could have really been a fantastic game if they had spent more time on it.

Yeah that is a continual pattern with these Sonic games...

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One thing that I really don't get about the game, or many other games in general, is that some people say they ran into bugs during the game, such as running through walls or falling through floors, yet when I play it, they're nonexistent.

And as for Heroes, this is the big "Love It or Hate It" game.

Postives:

- Graphics: I found the graphics really nice, even if a bit too shiny, but I never let it get to me

- Team: While it is very annoying when they fail to respond when trying to do things with them, I like how you can work with each of them in unison, and it's especially fun once all members are fully leveled up, allowing them all to effectively kill enemies on their own.

- Levels: This has to be my favorite game design wise. While most of the themes are carbon copies of those from earlier games, the levels that are unique are among the best levels I've played.

- Music: Again. another favorite of mine.

- Metal Sonic: Nuff said.

Negatives:

- Bosses: While I like the idea of having the opportunity to attack the boss be present all the time, the main strategy being timing, but these bosses feel very sloppy and a mess with little structure, other than the robot storms. The team fights suffer greatly from this.

-Story/Characters/VAs: Corny

Compared to past Sonic games, no it's not that good, as a game in general, it's pretty good.

This is completely ignoring my personal qualms that I have with that travesties they called 'Super Tails' and 'Super Knuckles' at the end of the game.

You know, they were never Super Tails/Knuckles to begin with.

Edited by VirgoTheCougar

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Do you wanna know why I cared less about Heroes? Mainly because the stages in the game were anything special (especially the special stages) and Team sonic & Dark moved too slow, and I grew bored of the "TEAM" aspect of the game. I just wanted to blast through a stage at "SONIC SPEED" to see if i can beat my times. The VO's (except tails) were okay, and i was able to grow on to the shad+rouge+omega thing after awhile. But what really got me was, WHY IN THE HELL IS KNUX WITH SONIC & TAILS WHEN HE SHOULD BE ON ANGEL ISLAND PROTECTING THE M.E.?

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I take even Shadow the Hedgehog over this game. I can't stand Sonic Heroes.

The team system didn't work like a tag team, it was more like rock-paper-scissors. Because each character wasn't good enough on their own. Hazards in the game were designed to be Knuckles or Sonic hazards, for example, and required you to switch. This meant switching 50 or so times per level. To make it worse the game holds your hand and tells you when to switch or forces it.

Slippery movement and nerfed attacks like others said, sending you off edges of the level. This gets really bad when you're trying for a nice rank and 8 minutes through a 10 minute level you die on a technicality. I died like this so many times.

The story isn't anything spectacular. If they want to go back to a basic story with the next Sonic game, I've got no problem. But for a game with such a shallow plot, WHY is this the game with the most dialogue? They go on and on about nothing for the whole level. "Maybe we can go down there!" Shut your mouth Knuckles, I just died because you punched me off a cliff. On top of all this the dialogue sounds like it was written by a third grader for a third grader. Sonic is for kids, but writing a script as stupid as this makes me feel stupid too. Kids can appreciate a well written game, and maybe even appreciate it more as they get older. Like how I can still watch the '80s Transformers movie, but I can't play Heroes without cringing. There's nothing cool about Sonic here.

Graphics are something I don't really care about. They're not too ugly. If a game is fun the graphics don't matter to me. I wish they hadn't made the characters so shiny in this game though. Sonic looks like a blue rubber dolphin.

Level design sucks a little. I appreciate the extra platforming in this game, even if I feel it's overshadowed by the partner switching mechanic. I think it's more linear than SA2 however, despite environments being more open. Sonic has one path to follow forward, and this game looking more open is just a tease. I like some of the old school design though. Meh.

Some of the stuff I did like were the stage progression with a boss in the third act. I liked the platforming and checkered hills like I said before. And the special stage was a good idea, but it controlled like shit. Worst special stage besides the Advance games. This game seems like a bunch of good ideas all handled the wrong way. It's like they forgot how, starting with this game.

Edited by Badnikz

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So why is it that out of all the Sonic games, Heroes can't seem to catch anything close to a break from the general fan consensus?

Actually, I'd argue that (if only because of the total shit that came after it for the next few years) Heroes is one of the least hated games in the entire series.

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Fucked-up story and dialogue, weird graphics, awkward controls, terrible Special Stages (the concept's not bad but the controls make it horrid), sometimes frustrating level design, inaccurate physics (the pinball boards in the casino stages would have been fun if they actually had pinball physics), annoying characterization, lack of used potential in the team system (which amounted to nothing more than switch to character B to overcome an obstacle), horrid "boss" stages, bland enemy designs, annoying enemy health bars, repetition of having to play through the same exact game with all characters.

But hey, still had some fun with it.

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