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I have a plan to "fix" Game-Canon Amy Rose

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When was Amy broken?

I think she's pretty well 'fixed' in Sonic Boom. Game canon Amy is who she is. If she was less colour blind, that would be nice. But I certainly don't really have a problem with how she is.

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18 minutes ago, reflection_of said:

That being said your suggestions failed to convince me that Amy is worth "fixing" while there are other female protagonists who already work perfectly.  

You do realize that Amy being a girl does not mean she is interchangeable with other characters who happen to be girls, right? Just like Sonic being a boy doesn't mean every other boy character created after him is useless?

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14 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Two extra thing I would change about her if I had a time machine: her design and name. Now it's too late, we grew accustom to them. But in world where everyone had meaningful names, "Amy" sounds bland. Her design could use more touches, but most importantly she needs dress that hides her panties.

41 minutes ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

It's kinda hard to imagine what else they could had named her tho? Hammer? which only even works if you ignore she didn't start off with her hammer. Pinky?... That'd be awful. I'm cool with Amy. And lets try not to make this weird, but I don't really agree with her "needing" a longer dress or whatever to hide her vague cartoon butt, It's not a problem with characters like Minnie mouse, so I don't see it as a problem with Amy. Plus I can't help to think folk truly worried about it just comes from cultural differences, because from a Japanese media standpoint it's a non-issue. And for something trying to appeal to western tastes more we have Boom Amy. Regardless it's a non-issue.

While Amy may sound simple compared to "meaningful" names like Cream and Silver, she has a last name Rose which no one else has. I think that equals her out.

I don't know about the longer skirt either. The short red skirt shows her character: energetic but still girly and in the age where she wan't to be more lady-like. If you make it longer it kinda change her whole image. 

As for the panties...I grew up watching Japanese (kids) show that had panties and bath/beach episodes with minors without any sexualization or treating as bad so it's hard for me to be concerned. As Lord-Dreamerz say, I think it's cultural difference. I was actually surprised when I came to the west that people were very sensitive about it. I don't remember Amy showing off her panties, or SEGA sexualizing her or her panties. The camera angle and dress angle usually hides it no matter what pose she is in. The only pantie-show I remember is in Heros which is long ago...I didn't care when I saw it then, and even looking back now I still don't see it as sexual or bad. If I were to feel uncomfortable, it'll be to the people who see that as sexual or troublesome.

She may not be my top favorite but I like Amy. A minor tweak is fine, but I'd be happy if they keep her as she is.

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I think Archie's Mega Drive comic pretty much exemplified the ideal Amy for me.  Someone who is a tad annoying, but is still capable and comes through when she's needed.  She's not above being a damsel in distress, but it's made up for by the fact that none of the characters are.  Every challenge they face comes with unique problems that require the specific skillsets of one or more of the characters.  This Amy also has a noticeable crush on Sonic, but she's not completely incapcitated by it, either.  It's basically treated as a cute preteen crush, nothing more serious than that.  She can still think and act on her own.  She's basically just a cute preteen girl with a little bit of edge to her, and I find that extremely charming.

Early-to-mid 2000's Sonic really liked to pander to very specific character archetypes (presumably those they saw on whatever anime was popular at the time), which is what bestowed unto her the annoying reputation of "my personality is girl," even though I don't really agree with that assessment.  She has a lot of interesting points that make her an invaluable character, but she's not always been handled with care in the main series games.

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Just now, KoDaiko said:

While Amy may sound simple compared to "meaningful" names like Cream and Silver, she has a last name Rose which no one else has. I think that equals her out.

None of the character's names are meaningful. Besides Charmy...and Cream whose name is apart of word-play, all of these characters names are nothing more than labels. Titles than actual names. Vector is the only character that has a meaningful name, because it's not at all related to his actual gimmick.

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Amy's name is fine.

She's supposed to be ordinary by comparison to Sonic, so having a name as simple as "Amy" fits in that regard, but even more than that: Her last name, Rose, is pretty symbolic of her nature.  It symbolises her crush on Sonic (roses are flowers of love), it matches her color scheme (red or pink), and if you really wanted to get deep, it could symbolize the way she sees the positive side of things.  As in, she sees the world through rose-tinted glasses.  (See, for example, the end of SA2 where she convinces Shadow that there is good in the world, despite how grim and ugly it may be)

So I really don't think that Amy's name needs to be changed.  It works perfectly fine, even though it is a huge contrast.  Besides that, it's not like she's the only one with a normal name.  Tails' real name is technically Miles, and Ivo (Robonik) is also a name that (while not super-common) is actually given to people in real life.

So yeah, I don't see any fault in her name.

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I never knew people actually had a problem with Amy's name. I've always loved how simple and short it is. I think it suits her perfectly.

People thinking her name should change just because 'Sonic is fast so his name is Sonic, Shadow is dark so let's call him Shadow, or Knuckles has big knuckles so let's call him Knuckles', is ridiculous. 

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17 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

None of the character's names are meaningful. Besides Charmy...and Cream whose name is apart of word-play, all of these characters names are nothing more than labels. Titles than actual names. Vector is the only character that has a meaningful name, because it's not at all related to his actual gimmick.

I can't tell if you're replying to MetalSkulkBane's opinion of her name being bland or my sarcastic (attempted) reply to it, but since you're replying to me...

I see no problem with her name. I was saying if the problem was she wasn't following the trend of everyone's name based off something that describes the character. Amy still has her last name. But I can't see their name as "meaningful", so I gave Cream and Silver who seem to based of their body color and no deep meaning as an example.

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Just now, KoDaiko said:

I can't tell if you're replying to MetalSkulkBane's opinion of her name being bland or my sarcastic (attempted) reply to it, but since you're replying to me...

I see no problem with her name. I was saying if the problem was she wasn't following the trend of everyone's name based off something that describes the character. Amy still has her last name. But I can't see their name as "meaningful", so I gave Cream and Silver who seem to based of their body color and no deep meaning as an example.

Your sarcasm could've used any of the characters as an example (besides Vector) because none of their names are actually that creative...that's why I replied to "you" specifically.

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Amy is more emotionally driven than Blaze, less overtly sexual than Rouge, and more physically capable than Cream. You couldn't just swap her out with someone else.

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4 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Your sarcasm could've used any of the characters as an example (besides Vector) because none of their names are actually that creative...that's why I replied to "you" specifically.

wait does creative=meaningful?

MetalSkulkBane said, "in world where everyone had meaningful names", so even if you think their name isn't that meaningful, he thinks otherwise.

I don't think the (failed) sarcasm would've worked if I named anyone else because, for example, one can argue Sonic is meaningful because it describe his personality/ability/etc, one can say Rogue is meaningful because it can mean lipstick/jewelry/thief/romance that explain her character, or even argue Big is big not only physical but in heart and mind or something. You may disagree, but people have different definition and reason for "meaningful". As much as I disagree with him, I (think I) understand why he think that way. 

But you can't twist out an analysis behind Cream or Silver except body color...ok maybe also a food pun but that's not related to the character...at least I can't, so I chose them to say to him "hey I don't think everyone is meaningful".

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I really really don't like Boom! Amy to be honest, I feel like she's an obnoxious in your face "Strong female character" that nags, and picks up after the male characters even though in main canon they're perfectly capable of looking after themselves, I think she's even more a generic girl than normal Amy is. The "naggy woman, messy childish men" is so freaking tired and unfunny.

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At least for Boom Amy the roles are reversed several times or her stuck up behaviour comes back to haunt her, usually when the guys are just having harmless fun (eg. Closed Door Policy is DEVOTED to this). Sally and even Julie Sue are more straight up examples of the trope. You can count the times Sally did any silly behaviour (let alone lost an argument to the boys) on one hand.

I do agree that the archetype doesn't quite mix with Amy however. Amy is bossy and self important, but I don't see her as this grumpy fun police who thinks everyone else's fun is just childish and stupid. I always saw her as one of those more liable to join in (in fairness Knuckles was often the intelligent buzzkill in other interpretations, eg. Sonic X).

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4 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

At least for Boom Amy the roles are reversed several times or her stuck up behaviour comes back to haunt her, usually when the guys are just having harmless fun (eg. Closed Door Policy is DEVOTED to this). Sally and even Julie Sue are more straight up examples of the trope. You can count the times Sally did any silly behaviour (let alone lost an argument to the boys) on one hand.

I do agree that the archetype doesn't quite mix with Amy however. Amy is bossy and self important, but I don't see her as this grumpy fun police who thinks everyone else's fun is just childish and stupid. I always saw her as one of those more liable to join in (in fairness Knuckles was often the intelligent buzzkill in other interpretations, eg. Sonic X).

Your subtly knows no bounds :V

 

 

Ya know @Scape it'd be a lot easier to understand your point if you actually listed some of the criticisms you've seen directed at Amy and why she needs to be "fixed". You're basically talking about a solution to a problem that you haven't shown.

In  any case, I guess I can just respond to these "solutions" 

1. The whole point of her crush on Sonic isn't to be anything substantial and I don't understand why people want something substantial out of it. Its literally a running gag based on how most video games in the 90's have the hero save the girl and live happily ever after, with the hero saving the girl and being completely uninterested despite her advances. That was the main crux of Amy's inception. Removing that, you make her an almost completely different character (Hello Boom :V) 

2. That seems pretty...out there considering her "interest" in the mystic arts is superficial at best; it'd be pretty jarring if after using a hammer for so many years, she just randomly becomes a seer for no real reason than "just because".

3. What is this actually adding though? This doesn't really sound like anything major or needed. 

4. Once again, why? What problem is this fixing? 

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7 hours ago, StaticMania said:

Your sarcasm could've used any of the characters as an example (besides Vector) because none of their names are actually that creative...that's why I replied to "you" specifically.

 

6 hours ago, KoDaiko said:

wait does creative=meaningful?

MetalSkulkBane said, "in world where everyone had meaningful names", so even if you think their name isn't that meaningful, he thinks otherwise.

I don't think the (failed) sarcasm would've worked if I named anyone else because, for example, one can argue Sonic is meaningful because it describe his personality/ability/etc, one can say Rogue is meaningful because it can mean lipstick/jewelry/thief/romance that explain her character, or even argue Big is big not only physical but in heart and mind or something. You may disagree, but people have different definition and reason for "meaningful". As much as I disagree with him, I (think I) understand why he think that way. 

But you can't twist out an analysis behind Cream or Silver except body color...ok maybe also a food pun but that's not related to the character...at least I can't, so I chose them to say to him "hey I don't think everyone is meaningful".

All my point is that everyone uses a name that is a description. Silver is silver, Tails has two tails, Blaze uses fire. Amy doesn't have that (unless you count "rose" part).

Just like her short dress, it's very VERY petty complain, so I wouldn't change it now. BUT, if I could change it at very start, I don't see why not fixing it.

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10 hours ago, Nepenthe said:

You do realize that Amy being a girl does not mean she is interchangeable with other characters who happen to be girls, right? Just like Sonic being a boy doesn't mean every other boy character created after him is useless?

Actually the main reasons people focus on Amy so much is because she is one of the few female Sonic characters and because she has a crush on the protagonist. If she was just another male no one would give shit. 

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59 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Your subtly knows no bounds :V

Funnily, that was actually an unintended typo. XD

In fairness Archie were just asking for that to happen (especially the one they actually called MARI SU, come on!).

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On 8/10/2016 at 5:26 PM, Scape said:

Subject: I have a plan to "fix" Game!Canon Amy Rose.

I get the feeling that it's become taboo to say anything about her, but I can't internalize my thoughts anymore. I think it's funny how defending Amy to the Sonic Fanbase is just like defending the overall Sonic series to the rest of the world. As an off-and-on Sonic fan, I already have a target on my back. On top of that, I'm getting sick of Amy not being a fun character. I'm getting sick of people saying things like "Amy was always terrible" "Amy needs to die" "Amy's fans are idiots" but when IGN says this about the Sonic series as a whole, they're up in arms.

So, in celebration of the 25th anniversary and Sega's big attempt to regain the goodwill that Rise of Lyric killed, I'm gonna attempt to explain how one of the most divisive characters in the series can be done better.

1. End the crush because most of SEGA's writers don't know what to do with it. After Sonic Adventure 2, her obsession with Sonic became her main defining trait to the point of being a detriment to herself and everyone around her. Tails had a similar relationship with Sonic, but eventually grew out of it, becoming absorbed in his work and almost dismissive of him. [which is probably becoming it's own problem but whatever] This contributed to making Amy look even worse. Sonic's friends are more interesting when they possibly have their own lives to lead. That's not to say she should go all "rah rah gurl power sonic is old news" Just let her affection towards him be background radiation. Don't make her dismissive of Sonic.

2. Dive into her interest in the mystical like fortune telling, dowsing and her possible psychic abilities. Have games of chance more likely to fall in her favor. When she's near a special item (hidden Item Boxes, Rings and Springs, Giant Rings, Red Star Rings, etc.) she closes her eyes and gets surrounded by hearts. When a hazard off-screen is nearby, an exclamation point appears above her head. And maybe have instances where Sonic Tails and Knuckles skeptical of all her mystical mumbo-jumbo even though their lives have been so strongly influenced by it.

3. Make her the one looking after those little animals that Sonic rescues. Whenever he opens a big capsule of them, she runs up and checks on them. As he rescues the critters by the dozens, she hangs back a bit, letting them flock to her and making sure they're cared for. As Sonic continues, Amy gathers more and more of them. By the end of the game, her and thousands of the critters storm the final stronghold with Sonic, breaking machinery, helping him traverse and giving him items.

4. Maybe have Tails make her these shoes [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0skVVddNibQ] Just cut out the middle man. She can now reach Boost-level speeds. Say that Tails gave them to her during her last birthday. He wanted to see if she'd be less frustrated with Sonic and understand him better, if she could reliably trail him. She begins running errands using the skates instead of her car out of concern for the environment, and becomes hooked. The sensation of the wind ripping through her quills, the feeling of being virtually unstoppable, and the knowledge that she could now theoretically catch up to Sonic without breaking a sweat. She eventually senses him run past her hometown and decides to go for it. She skates as fast as she can towards him until the shoes begin to lift her feet off the ground and propel her forward. After a while, she begins trailing him. Once he notices, his path starts changing erratically, making tons of zig-zags and sharp turns, but she mimics him beat-for-beat. He finally relents and slows down. Before he can speak, she says that she knows he doesn't owe her anything and promises to respect his privacy, but she would still like to just play tag every once in a while. After a moment of silence, He compliments the build quality of her shoes and how well she kept up with him. Then after another bit of contemplation, he pokes her and goes "Tag, you're it" before taking off.

If that couldn't make her cool, nothing could. We start thinking about Amy in a finer detail than “burn it to the ground and forget it existed.” What do you think?

1. End it? No. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, Amy's crush on Sonic is the foundation of her character and one of her biggest aspects. I don't care how crazy she is regarding Sonic but I do appreciate the somewhat softer approach the series has taken in recent years. Actually, I think a softer approach with a sign of neuroticism is the best way to go. Good for serious and funny moments.

2. In reality, it probably doesn't go any further than a hobby ala astrology. Making her a wizard is a stretch and a subversion since she's never been depicted as full on magical in the main series.

3. Again, it's been said before but Amy's been depicted as more caring of the critters in Lost World. It's a bit of a stretch, and frankly kind of ludicrous in retrospect, to think an army of critters could stand a chance against an army of Eggman robots when they capture them all of the time. Plus, I'd personally rather see an army of Sonic's friends then an army of tiny animal buddies that always need saving fight Eggman's robots. For starters, the main cast has been under utilized for a decade now. And I don't think Amy would need help taking out a base of robots.

4. That's really unnecessary. Sorry to be blunt but Amy chasing Sonic on foot is part of the charm of their dynamic. Because you'd have to be batshit insane to chase someone who can break the sound barrier in his sleep on foot and the though of that is ludicrously hilarious. 

All in all, count me as a member of the Amy Doesn't Need Fixing Club. 

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2 hours ago, reflection_of said:

Actually the main reasons people focus on Amy so much is because she is one of the few female Sonic characters and because she has a crush on the protagonist. If she was just another male no one would give shit. 

I don't see how there being few female Sonic characters (which isn't even true btw) and her crushing on Sonic have to do with her being interchangeable with other female characters. Or how being a male makes any real difference.

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1 hour ago, reflection_of said:

Actually the main reasons people focus on Amy so much is because she is one of the few female Sonic characters and because she has a crush on the protagonist. If she was just another male no one would give shit. 

It's more likely because she's the female lead. That's a tough spot to be in.

One of the problems with Amy is that her iteration fluctuates in nearly every other game, and that's likely due to her being the ONLY representing female in the maincast. The writers just can't seem to find where the balance should be between 'sweet girl' and 'capable fighter'. Mix in what little screentime she has and you get... messes like Heroes.

So I agree with the others. She just needs more things to do outside of obsessing over Sonic. Looking back at SA1, her trying to convince him to protect a small bird created a nice contrast between their priorities. Every adventure doesn't have to be overblown and exciting. Amy's tiny quests can still be part of a larger whole.

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2 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Ya know @Scape it'd be a lot easier to understand your point if you actually listed some of the criticisms you've seen directed at Amy and why she needs to be "fixed". You're basically talking about a solution to a problem that you haven't shown.

In  any case, I guess I can just respond to these "solutions" 

1. The whole point of her crush on Sonic isn't to be anything substantial and I don't understand why people want something substantial out of it. Its literally a running gag based on how most video games in the 90's have the hero save the girl and live happily ever after, with the hero saving the girl and being completely uninterested despite her advances. That was the main crux of Amy's inception. Removing that, you make her an almost completely different character (Hello Boom :V) 

2. That seems pretty...out there considering her "interest" in the mystic arts is superficial at best; it'd be pretty jarring if after using a hammer for so many years, she just randomly becomes a seer for no real reason than "just because".

3. What is this actually adding though? This doesn't really sound like anything major or needed. 

4. Once again, why? What problem is this fixing? 

1. [Problem: "Sonic needs a restraining order"] I understand the point of the crush, but years and years of character derailment and flanderization turned her into a psychopath, and made her the butt of jokes that I'm unable to laugh at and have personally become fed up with seeing. If SEGA could hire writers competent enough to keep the crush alive without it devolving into making Amy a little demon then fantastic, but until then, I'd just like to see anything else be exaggerated to the point of consuming her.

2. [Problem: "There's nothing noteworthy about Amy besides being Sonic's stalker" ] SEGA's still pushing the mysticism angle, and I personally still think my suggestions would be fun, but if it's not necessary, then cool.

3. [Problem: "She failed to make Sonic respect her/No one likes her"] I still really like the idea of Amy looking after the flickies/chao/wisps, etc. Someone going out of their way to care for the lives that Eggman stops on. Really, all I'm suggesting is that SEGA makes the depiction of Amy in Sonic Lost World the default.

4. [Problem: “I come to a Sonic game to play as Sonic”] This one is drastic. She was slow, now she's not. I didn't imagine her using the shoes 24/7 from then on, just when she wants to be a pink Sonic for whatever reason.

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2 hours ago, reflection_of said:

Actually the main reasons people focus on Amy so much is because she is one of the few female Sonic characters and because she has a crush on the protagonist. If she was just another male no one would give shit. 

This doesn't actually address anything I said in the post at all.

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8 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

At least for Boom Amy the roles are reversed several times or her stuck up behaviour comes back to haunt her, usually when the guys are just having harmless fun (eg. Closed Door Policy is DEVOTED to this). Sally and even Julie Sue are more straight up examples of the trope. You can count the times Sally did any silly behaviour (let alone lost an argument to the boys) on one hand.

She isn't a Mary Sue like Sally (or at least like she was) or Julie Su , I guess, but I'd argue what she IS is a naggy housewife.

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I adore Amy in the comics, to the point where she's one of my favorite Sega cast characters. But she's one of my least liked recurring characters in the game canon, since I'm not a fan of her obnoxious anime-ish personality between Heroes and Free Riders (and Sonic X especially), although I liked her in SA1. I like that unlike in the games, Sonic in the Archie comics doesn't even get annoyed at Amy crushing on him and he even teases her about it on occasion. It's that sort of reaction from him that really sells their dynamic to me, whereas Amy being treated as an annoying tag-along doesn't really improve my opinion about her (or Sonic, for that matter; I sometimes wonder why they're even friends in the first place).

If the games adapted her comic personality + crush on Sonic where she only displays it during appropriate moments, like when he does something cool, then she'd be one of my favorite Sonic characters instantly. As it stands, she's only a favorite of mine under Ian's pen.

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