Why "Adventure Sonic" is Modern Sonic

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I saw this video on my feed and I watched the whole thing, thus I wanted to start a conversation about it.

One of the main points it makes is that "Adventure Sonic" is Modern Sonic because he shares the same core design aka his long quills, green eyes, red shoes, gloves, tan arms etc

   

The designs do not have much a different to warrent being a separate character. The reason why the Adventure style of Sonic is a bit different is because it is the style that fits the game they were trying to do, thus making him mesh well with the environment they put him in. Still the same character. We cannot say the ame for Classic Sonic as they have too many differences between them that Classic is warranted to be his own character.

I have heard that Adventure Sonic was going to be in Generations but the idea was scrapped. However, there was a poster that featured Classic/Modern/Boom Sonic and they put Modern for the 1998 era, further adding that not only they not consider "Adventure Sonic" a thing, but Modern Sonic is representative of that era because Dreamcast IS Modern Sonic.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Uh, yeah. That's kinda obvious that they are the same character. When people refer to Modern Sonic and Adventure Sonic, they never mean that they are two different characters altogether like Classic/Modern, but rather use it to refer to the two different voices, and the two different gameplay modes. I honestly don't recall anyone hinting that Modern and Adventure are two different characters at all.

[Wraith]

14 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Uh, yeah. That's kinda obvious that they are the same character. When people refer to Modern Sonic and Adventure Sonic, they never mean that they are two different characters altogether like Classic/Modern, but rather use it to refer to the two different voices, and the two different gameplay modes. I honestly don't recall anyone hinting that Modern and Adventure are two different characters at all.

We had a thread the other day where people tried to insist to the contrary. They're not a huge majority or anything but they do exist.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Just now, Wraith said:

We had a thread the other day where people tried to insist to the contrary. They're not a huge majority or anything but they do exist.

Well, a small minority thinks that. Doesn't change the fact that it's rather obvious they're the same character. 

If it all worked like that, we'd be out calling Mario from Mario 64 a different character from Galaxy Mario or 3D World Mario.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

3 minutes ago, Wraith said:

We had a thread the other day where people tried to insist to the contrary. They're not a huge majority or anything but they do exist.

That and they are all over Twitter and FB. For a known Sonic Youtuber to make a video addressing the issue via video means they this pretty much comes up a lot. 

[FriendBot]

4 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Uh, yeah. That's kinda obvious that they are the same character. When people refer to Modern Sonic and Adventure Sonic, they never mean that they are two different characters altogether like Classic/Modern

uhh I'm pretty some some people do, it's laughable to be honest. Like when it comes to the differences between Classic and Modern Sonic in terms of looks and gameplay, there are some differences. Classic is younger, his games are primarily 2D and it's pretty technical with the physics, momentum and all that jazz. Modern is older and experienced, his games are primarily 3D and the gameplay is more spectacle/action-focused with a narrative focus at that. 

SO yeah, pretty clear differences between the 2 even though they are the same character.

I can't say the same for differentiating Adventure with Modern. 

I feel the only reason people treat Adventure as his own character is because they seem bothered by the fact the Sonic now is not as serious or cool as he was in the early 3D games and they have to accept that it's the same Sonic, which again is silly to me. 

I'm perfectly fine with the sillier Sonic of Colors-onwards AND the corny action heroness of the Adventure era as well, so I didn't have too much of a problem to accept this is all the same universe.

I don't know, this is just another petty thing that annoys in the fanbase. Can't say anything else more than that without rambling like an idiot (even though I do that on a daily basis)

4 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Uh, yeah. That's kinda obvious that they are the same character. When people refer to Modern Sonic and Adventure Sonic, they never mean that they are two different characters altogether like Classic/Modern

uhh I'm pretty some some people do, it's laughable to be honest. Like when it comes to the differences between Classic and Modern Sonic in terms of looks and gameplay, there are some differences. Classic is younger, his games are primarily 2D and it's pretty technical with the physics, momentum and all that jazz. Modern is older and experienced, his games are primarily 3D and the gameplay is more spectacle/action-focused with a narrative focus at that. 

SO yeah, pretty clear differences between the 2 even though they are the same character.

I can't say the same for differentiating Adventure with Modern. 

I feel the only reason people treat Adventure as his own character is because they seem bothered by the fact the Sonic now is not as serious or cool as he was in the early 3D games and they have to accept that it's the same Sonic, which again is silly to me. 

I'm perfectly fine with the sillier Sonic of Colors-onwards AND the corny action heroness of the Adventure era as well, so I didn't have too much of a problem to accept this is all the same universe.

I don't know, this is just another petty thing that annoys in the fanbase. Can't say anything else more than that without rambling like an idiot (even though I do that on a daily basis)

[Ryannumber1gamer]

2 minutes ago, Kabalni said:

uhh I'm pretty some some people do, it's laughable to be honest. Like when it comes to the differences between Classic and Modern Sonic in terms of looks and gameplay, there are some differences. Classic is younger, his games are primarily 2D and it's pretty technical with the physics, momentum and all that jazz. Modern is older and experienced, his games are primarily 3D and the gameplay is more spectacle/action-focused with a narrative focus at that. 

SO yeah, pretty clear differences between the 2 even though they are the same character.

I can't say the same for differentiating Adventure with Modern. 

I feel the only reason people treat Adventure as his own character is because they seem bothered by the fact the Sonic now is not as serious or cool as he was in the early 3D games and they have to accept that it's the same Sonic, which again is silly to me. 

I'm perfectly fine with the sillier Sonic of Colors-onwards AND the corny action heroness of the Adventure era as well, so I didn't have too much of a problem to accept this is all the same universe.

I don't know, this is just another petty thing that annoys in the fanbase. Can't say anything else more than that without rambling like an idiot (even though I do that on a daily basis)

uhh I'm pretty some some people do, it's laughable to be honest. Like when it comes to the differences between Classic and Modern Sonic in terms of looks and gameplay, there are some differences. Classic is younger, his games are primarily 2D and it's pretty technical with the physics, momentum and all that jazz. Modern is older and experienced, his games are primarily 3D and the gameplay is more spectacle/action-focused with a narrative focus at that. 

SO yeah, pretty clear differences between the 2 even though they are the same character.

I can't say the same for differentiating Adventure with Modern. 

I feel the only reason people treat Adventure as his own character is because they seem bothered by the fact the Sonic now is not as serious or cool as he was in the early 3D games and they have to accept that it's the same Sonic, which again is silly to me. 

I'm perfectly fine with the sillier Sonic of Colors-onwards AND the corny action heroness of the Adventure era as well, so I didn't have too much of a problem to accept this is all the same universe.

I don't know, this is just another petty thing that annoys in the fanbase. Can't say anything else more than that without rambling like an idiot (even though I do that on a daily basis)

I'm referring to what I saw, in which case I haven't saw anyone do that, meaning that would be a minority of people. 

And the idea is pretty stupid to be completely honest.

[Rusty Spy]

I absolutely hate this running meme that Sonic is even a separate character from his previous incarnations based solely on character design. I can at least accept Classic Sonic as being considered a "different" incarnation of Sonic because of the whole retro revival angle and because his modern incarnation was meant as an evolution to his design, just like with Sonic Boom, but it should've stopped there. Calling Sonic "Modern Sonic" as an official designation feels so token and disingenuous and only further perpetuates the idea that Classic Sonic is a completely different character entirely in the same way Boom-Sonic is meant as a different Sonic.

It's even worse that people have gone so far as to consider the Adventure games as it's own separate incarnation, when it's purely art design. It's one thing to have a preference to the sharper art and character design he had in the Adventure era, but to treat that design like a separate entity entirely is a whole new level of delusional.

[Nepenthe]

Honestly? I'm not sure why people seem this pissed off now about Classic and Modern Sonic being considered different incarnations by the fans nowadays when Sega validated the idea with Generations and no one seemed to mind as much if at all back then because Sky Sanctuary. You're playing two different Sonics of two different personalities with two different designs and two different ways of communicating and two different gameplay styles and two different cultural connotations. They are now, from a pragmatic point-of-view, separately-acting entities; two different characters.

Yes, from a canon standpoint they're both the same character, with the only difference being the Classic Sonic is just from an earlier time period. But realistically, as in what is given to me when I engage in the franchise in 2016, it is impossible now to complain about people "perpetuating a myth" that "they're really the same character!!!" when fans didn't treat them that way for years (mainly to shit on Modern Sonic) and now Sega has officially put its seal of approval on that idea...twice.

You reap what you sow I guess?

[Ryannumber1gamer]

I don't have an issue with the idea of Classic/Modern being seen as two different incarnations of the same character (Similar to Boom). My issue is the reasoning behind why people do it. Specifically, where people use it as an excuse to shun off the Modern titles for not being like the Classic titles, and in a way, try to disconnect them by claiming "Modern Sonic is a different character, and not connected to Classic!". 

[Wraith]

5 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

I don't have an issue with the idea of Classic/Modern being seen as two different incarnations of the same character (Similar to Boom). My issue is the reasoning behind why people do it. Specifically, where people use it as an excuse to shun off the Modern titles for not being like the Classic titles, and in a way, try to disconnect them by claiming "Modern Sonic is a different character, and not connected to Classic!". 

Sega pretty much encourages this mentality, so why wouldn't they? If people don't like modern Sonic, they have a Sonic for them. That's the the whole point of them handling it like this. It makes sense.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

1 minute ago, Wraith said:

Sega pretty much encourages this mentality, so why wouldn't they? If people don't like modern Sonic, they have a Sonic for them. That's the the whole point of them handling it like this. It makes sense.

It's more when they get really obnoxious about it to the point of trying to disown the Modern titles from the Classic games. 

[Nepenthe]

People disowning the 3D Sonic games from the 2D ones was happening for years before Gens existed. This isn't a new revelation but rather the culmination of a divisive attitude from the fanbase since the early 2000s. Sega finally recognizing it would only be surprising if they also didn't have a habit of taking hammers to problems that required scalpels.

[Wraith]

7 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

It's more when they get really obnoxious about it to the point of trying to disown the Modern titles from the Classic games. 

Again, that's kind of  the point.

They know Dreamcast/Modern Sonic carries bad press. Instead of trying to fix that,  they're kind of trying to divorce those games from classic to get those fans back on board. "You didn't like that other shit? Don't worry, here's YOUR Sonic."

 

 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

I'm not saying that isn't what they're doing. What I'm saying is I disagree with doing that, and I disagree with SEGA promoting that attitude.

[Mad Convoy]

You have to keep in mind that there are actually two reasons fans choose to use labels like "Classic fan" or "Adventure fan." One is a shorthand for people to describe what variety of Sonic they prefer. Its pretty obvious how different Classic, Adventure, Boost, and Boom are from each other despite sharing some fundamentals, so it makes sense and is perfectly ok that a fan might prefer one style and not another. And it just so happens to be quicker to say "I'm a Classic Sonic fan" than "I like Sonic 1, Sonic 2, Sonic 3 (and Knuckles), and am super excited for Sonic Mania." Same goes for any other label that fans apply. The other reason is the separation aspect that you guys bring up-- fans don't want to associate with the "uncool" Modern Sonic, and so create their own divides. Or alternatively, somebody takes advantage of labels to deal with cognitive dissonance-- in most cases, its somebody who is set on the opinion Modern Sonic is terrible and always will be terrible having to grapple with finding a style of Modern Sonic games that they actually like. Rather than admitting that they're wrong and that Modern Sonic isn't as bad as they think, some take the easy path and claim that the style they like isn't really Modern Sonic because insert arbitrary reason here, or that it represents true Modern Sonic and the ones they don't like simply belong in their own category, or etc. From there, we get a vocal minority claiming that Adventure Sonic is not Modern Sonic, despite clear evidence to the contrary.

But I don't think Sega is deliberately trying to pander to or encourage the latter attitude. I think its just a matter of Sega trying to appeal to some of the former group-- the ones that simply want a style they like to come back and be given justice. It isn't feasible for Sega to do that for every style, so it simply chooses the more economical/relevant ones. The onus is on the fans and non-fans not to seize this as an opportunity for arrogance and factionalism, but several have failed in this regard. As Sega does not currently own a mind control device, it can only do so much to stop them. Really, there's certain point where people need to stop finding ways to blame Sega for their problems and start reflecting on their own behaviors.

I don't mind people labeling themselves "Classic fan" or "Adventure fan" or whatever-- just don't be arrogant about it or make ignorant claims like "Adventure Sonic is not Modern Sonic" and you'll be fine.

[MetalSkulkBane]

"Adventure fans" "Classic fans" this is fine. But idea that Adventure Sonic should be another entity is stupid. (And I'm adventure fan).

It can only work if Project 2017 will have army of Sonic: Classic, Boom, Werehog, Knight, Modern, every single one of them.

(And if that's the case, i kinda worry about gameplay)

[Rusty Spy]

3 hours ago, Nepenthe said:

Yes, from a canon standpoint they're both the same character, with the only difference being the Classic Sonic is just from an earlier time period. But realistically, as in what is given to me when I engage in the franchise in 2016, it is impossible now to complain about people "perpetuating a myth" that "they're really the same character!!!" when fans didn't treat them that way for years (mainly to shit on Modern Sonic) and now Sega has officially put its seal of approval on that idea...twice.

That's exactly the problem. This disassociation between modern and classic is the biggest divide the fanbase, and rather than try to unify these two, they've only driven a wedge between them by designating what modern Sonic is and what it isn't, and as it is now, classic Sonic isn't modern Sonic, and this defined split more or less gives Sega a license to keep 3D Sonic games as far removed from the genesis gameplay as they like, so long as they in turn keep up a quota of classic 2D sidescrollers that don't mingle with anything related to Sonic after 1994.

[Nepenthe]

I don't deny that Gens solidified some issues with the franchise's identity going forward. I think the whole thing is as dumb as anyone else.

But my point is, I don't see how fans are supposed to converse casually about the franchise now that it actively uses this split as part of its identity. Like, I don't get why when people talk about it as something that just is now, such as with the harmless quagmire about Sonic's age, someone has to swoop in and say how much they hate that people keep "perpetuating this idea that there's two Sonic's when there's only one."

Seems like unnecessary grandstanding, like the whole "social construct" thing people use to downplay issues. Yes, social constructs don't exist as tangible objects or scientific laws, but they inevitably exist as observable patterns of culture, and people simply can't act outside of them without any real life consequences. Similarly, we all know Classic Sonic is the same Sonic as Modern Sonic, but Sega doesn't treat him as such so what are we as fans supposed to do about it going forward? Talk about Sonic without the "Classic" and "Modern" designations somehow? That's gonna be pretty fucking difficult and inefficient for a multitude of reasons, so I "perpetuate the idea," even if I don't like it.

[Rusty Spy]

Well I guess I can't expect people to treat it differently from what it is, but I can express my dissatisfaction with the status quo and the way it affects Sonic's fractured identity. Again, I don't particularly mind a distinction between classic and modern, I just wish Sega had tried to work to against that mentality rather than reaffirm it.

But I guess I can't really blame fans for having that mentality in the first place, since it is Sega's fault for modernizing Sonic's design in the first place.

[MetalSkulkBane]

9 hours ago, Rusty Spy said:

But I guess I can't really blame fans for having that mentality in the first place, since it is Sega's fault for modernizing Sonic's design in the first place.

Linked looked quite different during his appearance and no one complains (not to mention almost everyone changing from Nes to Snes). On youtube "Sonic Spitball part 1" explained that modern Sonic design was created to work better in 3D. Heck, Eggman was redesign much more and I never heard complains about him (except for is name).

[Rusty Spy]

17 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Linked looked quite different during his appearance and no one complains (not to mention almost everyone changing from Nes to Snes). On youtube "Sonic Spitball part 1" explained that modern Sonic design was created to work better in 3D. Heck, Eggman was redesign much more and I never heard complains about him (except for is name).

That's true, but with Sonic in particular people generally attribute his modern design with the series' low point and the classic design with his glory days. In a sense, Modern Sonic became the poster boy for everything wrong with the series.

Alternatively, from a concrete perspective, due to Sonic's image of being cool, his classic design has that timeless appeal, ala Mickey Mouse or Felix the Cat, whereas his modern design is considered more dated.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Ya know, I don't think this would be as big an issue if they were just talking about gameplay and eras while acknowledging both Classic and Modern Sonic as the same character. It'd actually be easier to accept and fight less over. People don't do this with Mickey Mouse, they don't do it with Mario, and these ironically actually do have alternate settings and personas like Kingdom Hearts and Paper Mario yet are acknowledge as Mickey and Mario (well, Paper Mario is arguable given Paper Jam).

Of course, that's just wishful thinking given how people wanted the two divorced entirely because "ew Modern cooties." Not even Megaman is treated like that, and there's an actual line of separation in that franchise between Classic, X/Zero, ZX, and NT Warrior. 

[Green Eyes]

I don't really like the idea of classic Sonic and modern Sonic as "different Sonic's" to be honest, either. I believed that the monikers were for convenience only, and very much on the same level as "SA Sonic". I never really considered it a thing with Generations because I assumed "classic Sonic" wouldn't be back.

If we're really going to do the separation thing then arguably "neoclassic" Sonic isn't classic Sonic.

[FriendBot]

Here's my take on this whole Classic/Modern shinding, I know that Classic and Modern are the same Sonic. But the identity between the two are different, they each represent a unique style.

Classic Sonic is more fun, creative and energetic but of course still have that coolness to him and his gameplay is primarily 2D that's very technical and has a good depth to them.

Modern Sonic (in my eyes) is more action-focused, cinematic and more overall just feels bigger in terms of scale and presentation but should keep the perfect balance of light heartedness and dark tones, while occasionally being a bit more darker or sillier every once in a while. His gameplay is primarily 3D that isn't a tightly designed as Classic's gameplay but I don't think it should. It's hard to describe but then again, out of the three main interpretations of Sonic; Modern is the most unclear because of the various gameplay styles he had so yeah, I can only really say what Modern Sonic should be like in terms of its tone. But I guess I could give a lazy answer for how his gameplay should be by just saying, add all the good things his past gameplay styles and put it all together in a blender.