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PROOF Sonic beat Shadow - Sonic Adventure 2 Explained


Starli7

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One huge misconception people have about this game is that they believe Sonic and Shadow tied during their fight aboard the Space Colony Ark in Sonic Adventure 2. Today, I am going to show how both endings from the Hero and Dark side fit into each other as one chronological story.

 

Let me know what you guys think!

 

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The only reason people think the two tied is because Shadow the Hedgehog ignored the giant explosion Sonic caused at the end of the Hero Story and just decided that they'd bring the Eclipse Cannon in to use like nothing happened. Hell, they've could've just said "Black Doom did it" and everything'd be fine.

Shadow couldn't have beaten Sonic because judging by the prior cutscene if he did then there simply wouldn't be a Sonic. There's also no way they could've tied either - like, how could they possibly tie in that situation? The only reason they tied in Green Forest was because Shadow got that call from Eggman.

So yeah, Sonic won the fight. Shadow winning it in the Dark story is no different to Gamma winning the Sonic fight in SA1 in his story.

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I think its suppoused to be left up to you. The giant wholes in the narrative play into that. 

If you feel like sonic won the fight,that's cool. But someone saying they tied or shadow isnt a missinterpetation. Its up to you. However you wanna view that

 

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11 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I think its suppoused to be left up to you. The giant wholes in the narrative play into that. 

If you feel like sonic won the fight,that's cool. But someone saying they tied or shadow isnt a missinterpetation. Its up to you. However you wanna view that

 

There aren't really many "holes" though. The game aligns itself so that you THINK the good guys won, or you THINK that the bad guys won at the end, depending on what side you play, but when you put all the pieces together from both stories, after beating them BOTH, you see that each event that happens in chronological order. 

 

It's really neat how they did that. 

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6 hours ago, Starli7 said:

There aren't really many "holes" though. The game aligns itself so that you THINK the good guys won, or you THINK that the bad guys won at the end, depending on what side you play, but when you put all the pieces together from both stories, after beating them BOTH, you see that each event that happens in chronological order. 

 

It's really neat how they did that. 

Duude there are strait holes and problems with sa2 as a narrative. Its the most common criticism with that game, so many narrative elements are completly unexplained and magically happen. Dont really get explained later. There are a bunch people who have solid theory that maria isnt even real.

I dont think its about chroniclogical order, sega wasnt blowing our minds. 

Ockhams razor. It wasnt about secret chronological orders.

Whichever toy was your favorite toy, won the toy battle now go buy your toy. Thats it. I appreciate the effort in the video but this one of those things that are just simply explained. I like people making theories on sonic, but this one is solved by the games tagline. You save the world or destroy it, pick your toy.

I dont think people are missinformed, the reason so many people think its a tie is because its left to you to think that, one because the narrative has more holes than Swiss  chese, but two because its frames that way. Its left up to interpretation in other adaptions of the story too, and people decide its a tie. 

You might later bring up shadow's game later havingba canon throughline thats decided by its ending. But I present you the argument the reason that is because shadow was an established character in thar game unlike sa2. In shadows game, to quote many a wrestler "when you turn heel less people are willing to buy your stuff" so in that game all but 2 endings count implying shadow was good the whole time. But sa2 was new and shadow was supposed to be offed by end of it, so you could interpret that however you wanted it. I know folks who say shadow beat up sonic during that fight. And I think they can have that interpretation because sega allowed for it. They didnt plan for shadow to catch on at the level he did, if they did that part of the story I bet you would have much more defined because they would have known and woukd have been wanting to make everyone look viable for that reason.

They let you pick the toy you like, that's about all there is to it. To me at least 

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On 9/24/2016 at 5:54 AM, Shadowlax said:

Duude there are strait holes and problems with sa2 as a narrative. Its the most common criticism with that game, so many narrative elements are completly unexplained and magically happen. Dont really get explained later. There are a bunch people who have solid theory that maria isnt even real.

I dont think its about chroniclogical order, sega wasnt blowing our minds. 

Ockhams razor. It wasnt about secret chronological orders.

Whichever toy was your favorite toy, won the toy battle now go buy your toy. Thats it. I appreciate the effort in the video but this one of those things that are just simply explained. I like people making theories on sonic, but this one is solved by the games tagline. You save the world or destroy it, pick your toy.

I dont think people are missinformed, the reason so many people think its a tie is because its left to you to think that, one because the narrative has more holes than Swiss  chese, but two because its frames that way. Its left up to interpretation in other adaptions of the story too, and people decide its a tie. 

You might later bring up shadow's game later havingba canon throughline thats decided by its ending. But I present you the argument the reason that is because shadow was an established character in thar game unlike sa2. In shadows game, to quote many a wrestler "when you turn heel less people are willing to buy your stuff" so in that game all but 2 endings count implying shadow was good the whole time. But sa2 was new and shadow was supposed to be offed by end of it, so you could interpret that however you wanted it. I know folks who say shadow beat up sonic during that fight. And I think they can have that interpretation because sega allowed for it. They didnt plan for shadow to catch on at the level he did, if they did that part of the story I bet you would have much more defined because they would have known and woukd have been wanting to make everyone look viable for that reason.

They let you pick the toy you like, that's about all there is to it. To me at least 

In Sonic Adventure 2, ALL of the game's cutscenes are canon, and none of them contradict each other (unlike in the original Sonic Adventure where cutscenes would show different results for rival battles, this game skips any cutscene that would contradict another)
I've compiled a list of every cutscene in their general order... (broken up by Time Stamps, and by events... with references to the Game's chapter names as often as possible)
 

 
21:02
Eggman breaks into Prison Island; releases Shadow; Shadow fights Hot Shot

11:08
Enter Knuckes and Rouge as they fight over the Master Emerald only for it to be shattered to keep it from Eggman

13:27
Sonic escapes GUN in City Escape

20:22
Eggman goes to his Hidden Base Again and sees the news; Shadow's Past flashback to Maria's death; Sonic battles with Big Foot, meets Shadow, Shadow escapes as Sonic is recaptured by GUN

22:18
Rouge Infiltrates Hidden Base

22:41
Eggman breaks into ARK; Gathering of the Dark in central control room with Eclipse Cannon with Rouge joining

11:13
Invade Prison Island again, find Amy

11:56
Tails attempts Rescuing Sonic and finds Amy being chased by Eggman; Amy releases Sonic from prison
Eggman has Shadow set Bomb countdown to 15 minutes
Rouge has 5:00 of the 15m to Get Chaos Emeralds, gets trapped by Flying Dog distraction
With under 10:00 left, Rouge radios Shadow to explain why she is holding up the Prison Island Escape; Shadow races toward her but instead winds up with a Face Off with Sonic
With either 01:28 (Shadow cutscene) or 8:00 (Sonic gameplay) left before Bomb goes off Eggman radios Shadow to end the face off; Sonic races off to find Tails and Amy; Shadow runs off to finish his trek toward Rouge
With just under 01:00 left, Shadow breaks into the vault with Rouge and the Emeralds and with under 00:07 left (around 00:04 actually) uses Chaos Control to get them out - the island then blows up as the Heroes fly away

17:30
Knuckles checks out the Ghost Mountain that is Pumpkin Hill

Shadow has a short flashback before the Dark team readies the Eclipse Canon

Day X 18:00
Eggman broadcasts globally his declaration of World Domination by The Eggman Empire and blows up half of moon
Sonic and co spring into action to track down Eggman with Tails's Emerald

20:21
Knuckles checks out the Aquatic Mine

9:03
Knuckles joins Tails and Amy, Tails realizes he can track Where's Eggman from President's limo
Sonic and Tails get into President's limo where Eggman is demanding surrender in 24 hours via communication signal, they cut Eggman's negotiations with the President off and trace the signal
Eggman throws tantrum, Rouge reveals she found the Last Chaos Emerald is in Tails's possession, Rouge secretly places a call
Simultaneously in President's limo, Tails finishes his trace of Eggman's signal to ARK, they leave just as President gets a call from his "agent" (Rouge duh)
Rouge chases Tornado III; hands off to Shadow who realizes they are heading toward Eggman's Hidden Base

13:04
Heroes reach and begin infiltration of Eggman's Hidden Base

14:58
Knuckles completes the Heroes' infiltration of Eggman's Hidden Base, Eggman Intercepts them with Egg Golem; Sonic damages it and it attacks Eggman; Heroes get into Eggman's Shuttle for Blast Off; the shuttle collides with debris losing Master Emerald pieces

Cannon Countdown 2 hours 11 minutes
Rouge tricks Eggman into letting her hack into ARK computer and detects Master Emerald (or detects the Heroes getting into ARK in GC remake) which she goes after the Last Pieces; simultaniously, Heroes have boarded ARK and realize that Knuckles has also gone after the Last Pieces of the Master Emerald, they make their plans around Tails's fake Emerald

Cannon Countdown 58 minutes
Eggman detects an extra Emerald and deduces that there is a fake, Eggman's Plan is to transport up and take the Heroes on himself, Shadow is back up

Cannon Countdown 45 minutes*
Sonic shown in control room receiving call from Tails and Eggman about Amy being held hostage
Rouge has her Face Off with Knuckles

Cannon Countdown 33 minutes*
Eggman finds Amy alone and takes her hostage; Sonic tries to exchange the fake Emerald for Amy but Eggman tricks the Heroes and jettisons Sonic out into space inside a capsule, Sonic in Trouble realizes that the fake Emerald is very similar to a real one

Cannon Countdown 21 minutes 7 seconds
Sonic's capsule explodes as everyone, including Shadow from another location, watch; Eggman begins fight with Tails; simultaneously, Sonic appears in front of Knuckles having used Chaos Control and races off toward the cannon
During Tails vs Eggman battle, Shadow confronts Rouge having discovered she is an agent for the President, Rouge confronts Shadow about her research into him, Eggman doing multitasking in his battle radios Shadow to tell him that Eggman has found the 7th Emeralds but he's detected someone messing around the Eclipse Cannon

Cannon Countdown 5 minutes 44 seconds
Shadow catches up to Sonic and The Last Battle between them begins

Cannon Countdown 1 minute 33 seconds
Tails has defeated Eggman when Sonic calls on the radio, the distraction allows Eggman to sneak off with the last Emerald

Cannon Countdown 40 seconds
Eggman places final Emerald into the Eclipse Cannon, WARNING sign appears
As Eclipse Cannon begins its big attack, parts of it explode as Sonic was aiming to do (though its superstructure is left largely intact and the what little damage is done appears to be mostly some explosive feedback - the FinalHazard attaches it self to the superstructure later)

Last Story Begins

There is only one minor issue with the time stamps which I marked above with asterisks: Sonic is shown getting the radio call from Tails and Eggman about Amy's hostage situation in the Hero story with the Cannon Countdown @ 45 minutes then Sonic makes the confrontation @ 33 minutes left; yet the Dark story shows Eggman finding Amy @ 33 minutes then jumps right into the confrontation - this is easily correctable by just bumping Eggman finding Amy to an earlier time stamp. Otherwise there are no other obvious contradictions within the game. Some fans claim that the final Hero side cutscene is not canon because the Eclipse Cannon still works in Shadow's game, but the same is true of the moon - which is still in one piece - and the CG animation of the Eclipse Cannon exploding shows so little actual damage done that it may have even been usable again.

The lack of contradiction clearly means all SA2 cutscenes are meant to be canon.

 

This guy summarizes it pretty well.

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Yeah, the biggest things that you can refer to as inconsistencies regarding SA2's internal logic are how Gerald got the video of his execution programmed to play aboard the ARK, and why everyone (including Amy and Eggman) keep confusing Shadow for Sonic. Most of the other plot holes people usually point to can be explained pretty easily from my experience. A lot of stories have plot holes if you search hard enough though, I don't get why they're such a big deal. I'm not saying a writer shouldn't do his darndest to try to make sure they don't exist (a sentiment that I, a writer, constantly feel), but I don't think they absolutely ruin a story.

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On 9/24/2016 at 5:54 AM, Shadowlax said:

Duude there are strait holes and problems with sa2 as a narrative. Its the most common criticism with that game, so many narrative elements are completly unexplained and magically happen. Dont really get explained later. There are a bunch people who have solid theory that maria isnt even real.

Do you want to maybe discuss some of these holes and problems instead of just insisting that they're there? SA2's story isn't flawless, but I don't see the kind of gaping holes that you're implying. The only major issue I can think of is under what circumstances Gerald was able to "complete" Shadow after the raid on the ARK.

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Sonic winning that fight is the only conclusion you can really come to. If he won, then he would go on to stop the Eclipse Canon - which he did. Had he lost or tied, then he wouldn't have been able to stop the canon and the game would have been over, Eggman wins. Furthermore, Sonic beating Shadow in that fight contradicts nothing in the Dark story-line. Eggman is still able to recover the last Emerald after losing to Tails, and insert it into the canon and think he has won - before the whole thing goes kablooie. Shadow is still left to bide his time sulking before his next appearance in the Last story line.

It all adds up. There is no other conclusion to come to. If Occam's Razor applies to anything it applies to "lets believe what they are showing us". We don't need to make any inferences to know Sonic lives to blow up the Eclipse canon. We see him do it. We see him complete the mission he set out on before tangling with Shadow. i.e. the simplest most straight forward solution is just to say that he beat Shadow. 

 

And SA2 has no more plot holes then you would expect out of a limited narrative. The Gerald thing is the worst offender, but there's no huge gamebreaking holes so to speak.

 

***Although come to think of it... I'm not sure if its ever been brought up before, but all those explosions must have totaled or at least damaged the eclipse canon. How was Shadow able to fire the thing in Shth?

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1 hour ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Sonic winning that fight is the only conclusion you can really come to. If he won, then he would go on to stop the Eclipse Canon - which he did. Had he lost or tied, then he wouldn't have been able to stop the canon and the game would have been over, Eggman wins. Furthermore, Sonic beating Shadow in that fight contradicts nothing in the Dark story-line. Eggman is still able to recover the last Emerald after losing to Tails, and insert it into the canon and think he has won - before the whole thing goes kablooie. Shadow is still left to bide his time sulking before his next appearance in the Last story line.

It all adds up. There is no other conclusion to come to. If Occam's Razor applies to anything it applies to "lets believe what they are showing us". We don't need to make any inferences to know Sonic lives to blow up the Eclipse canon. We see him do it. We see him complete the mission he set out on before tangling with Shadow. i.e. the simplest most straight forward solution is just to say that he beat Shadow. 

 

And SA2 has no more plot holes then you would expect out of a limited narrative. The Gerald thing is the worst offender, but there's no huge gamebreaking holes so to speak.

 

***Although come to think of it... I'm not sure if its ever been brought up before, but all those explosions must have totaled or at least damaged the eclipse canon. How was Shadow able to fire the thing in Shth?

Well said. I pointed all that out in the video as well. It just makes the most amount of sense that Sonic would. There are no real contradictions between the hero side and dark side stories when watching the cutscenes. 

However, with your latter question, I used the same logic as to why we still see the moon full intact. It's just details the writers/game creators overlooked. Some are more apparent than others. 

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16 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

 

And SA2 has no more plot holes then you would expect out of a limited narrative. The Gerald thing is the worst offender, but there's no huge gamebreaking holes so to speak.

 

 

There are  but you all seem set in your theory so have fun.

My whole point was...its whatever you want it to be anyway so hey it works out. If you do wish to go into the multiple giant plot holes that didnt get filled I think that's for another thread.I dont mind talking about it

19 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Do you want to maybe discuss some of these holes and problems instead of just insisting that they're there? SA2's story isn't flawless, but I don't see the kind of gaping holes that you're implying. The only major issue I can think of is under what circumstances Gerald was able to "complete" Shadow after the raid on the ARK.

Where do you want to begin?

I dont mind talking about them

Should we chronologically go through the game?

We can cinima sins the shit if you want. I just didnt wanna take the thread away from this guy.He has an opinion, he clearly did research, my opinion is due to the nature of the game its open to interpretation ,in the end it isnt much more to exspand on due to the nature of my opinion. Didnt want to ruin anything for anyone 

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17 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

 

It all adds up. There is no other conclusion to come to.

There are a few , the fact we are even having the conversation and the fact that people in this thread are complaining about "misinterpretations" en masse suggests that clearly... It isnt. Clearly other people say the story a lot of other people and came to very different conclusions. The fact this thread exists and arguments need to be made means that wasnt clear. Whether it be lack of skill or purposefully leaving stuff vuage, and its both.

You say, but if sonic did the thing with the canon. How could shadow win, so I play a lot of fighting games and "who actually won the thing" pops up" and unless explicitly told or shown a lot of times. A lot of the time to best interperate is well, no one won. The fight ended for various various reasons before both contenders could finish their bout. They had to stop, you mention shadow sulking but actually thats the moment any comes to him...for help. He knew the planet was going to get destroyed either way. If the fight is inconclusive sonic gets away he has no reason to chase him, worlds gonna explode either way. The story works being left up to interpretation because again because of aformentioned reason of shadow knew it was gonna happen either way but more importantly, sonic could just...get up. Shadow was more than content with letting peoples demise fall upon them, unlike later shadow in that game takes no lives actively. So shadow could have just won the fight got all "haha im the coolest" dipped, sonic got back up and did the thing. Or the fight was inconclusive sonic got away and shadow went " fuck it". And it works, sonic took a beating like champ still archived his goals, because he doesnt give up and had friends to help him. The lesson still works.

But the biggest thing is something I didnt wanna mention but you did.

In shadow the hedgehog a canon game. The eclipse canon is fine. The space colony arc is in ruins , eclipse canon is fine.  

Sonic failed.

There is no one sans eggman, who swore off all that...untill he made more death eggs. And tails...and come on would tails do that, who could fix that canon. That canon was intact. 

Sonic failed

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22 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Do you want to maybe discuss some of these holes and problems instead of just insisting that they're there? SA2's story isn't flawless, but I don't see the kind of gaping holes that you're implying. The only major issue I can think of is under what circumstances Gerald was able to "complete" Shadow after the raid on the ARK.

Well he's right that some aspects of SA2's story don't make sense. Here's just a few examples.

- How did Gerald record his death speech and get it on the ARK when he's arrested by the authorities and immediately shot during the video? There's no character in the story who would have a motive for assisting Gerald in his plan to crash the ARK into Earth. The video and speech just seem to magically beam onto the ARK after Gerald's death.

- Why is the ARK left in space after a secret government cover up? Wouldn't the government try to dismantle it and if they couldn't do that then at least have some form of security on/working with the ARK. The government are never anywhere near the ARK in the story.

Nothing massive, but a few examples.

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13 minutes ago, Raijin said:

Well he's right that some aspects of SA2's story don't make sense. Here's just a few examples.

- How did Gerald record his death speech and get it on the ARK when he's arrested by the authorities and immediately shot during the video? There's no character in the story who would have a motive for assisting Gerald in his plan to crash the ARK into Earth. The video and speech just seem to magically beam onto the ARK after Gerald's death.

There absolutely is a character with a motive to help Gerald: Shadow. That was Gerald's whole plan, program Shadow to carry out his revenge and wait for someone to let him out. GUN records Gerald's last words for whatever reason, Shadow nabs the tape on his way out of Prison Island, and uploads it to the ARK's computers at the same time he reprogrammed it to fall.

13 minutes ago, Raijin said:

- Why is the ARK left in space after a secret government cover up? Wouldn't the government try to dismantle it and if they couldn't do that then at least have some form of security on/working with the ARK. The government are never anywhere near the ARK in the story.

Dismantling a space station the size of a small moon isn't exactly an easy task, and probably not the kind of thing you want drawing people's attention after you fuck up and kill a bunch of people on it. It's not as if many people have access to space anyway, so it's easier to just shut it down and let people forget. And they do have security on it, a bunch of GUN robots. It's not like they can have human guards on a space station that was shut down half a century ago.

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1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

There absolutely is a character with a motive to help Gerald: Shadow. That was Gerald's whole plan, program Shadow to carry out his revenge and wait for someone to let him out. GUN records Gerald's last words for whatever reason, Shadow nabs the tape on his way out of Prison Island, and uploads it to the ARK's computers at the same time he reprogrammed it to fall.

Dismantling a space station the size of a small moon isn't exactly an easy task, and probably not the kind of thing you want drawing people's attention after you fuck up and kill a bunch of people on it. It's not as if many people have access to space anyway, so it's easier to just shut it down and let people forget. And they do have security on it, a bunch of GUN robots. It's not like they can have human guards on a space station that was shut down half a century ago.

Yeah, that may be the case, but it's never shown or alluded to in the game. As far as I'm concerned, that's just poor writing/plot mistake. And Shadow doesn't really have any interest in Gerald, he just wants to avenge Maria. He's got no interest in Gerald's pain, he just uses Gerald's plan for his own revenge purposes.

As for the space station, I forgot that GUN robots are on it, but it's a bit odd that there is no government awareness that Sonic and Eggman are on it at all isn't it? Again, it just seems a bit off to me.

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14 minutes ago, Raijin said:

Well he's right that some aspects of SA2's story don't make sense. Here's just a few examples.

- How did Gerald record his death speech and get it on the ARK when he's arrested by the authorities and immediately shot during the video? There's no character in the story who would have a motive for assisting Gerald in his plan to crash the ARK into Earth. The video and speech just seem to magically beam onto the ARK after Gerald's death.

Was it ever stated in the games that Gerald was executed immediately after the incident? Both of his journals in SA2 and Sonic Battle imply that he continued working on his projects after he was arrested. In fact, forcing the greatest scientific mind of history to work under strict supervision would make much more sense than just killing him, especially since the government shut the project down because they were afraid of things getting out of hand. He probably had enough time to change Shadow's memories and remotely reprogram the ARK. As for his final speech, he either programmed the GUN computers so that they stream it to the ARK, or Shadow did that for him as Diogenes said.

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1 minute ago, Raijin said:

Yeah, that may be the case, but it's never shown or alluded to in the game. As far as I'm concerned, that's just poor writing/plot mistake. 

Don't blame the game for making you think a bit.

1 minute ago, Raijin said:

And Shadow doesn't really have any interest in Gerald, he just wants to avenge Maria. He's got no interest in Gerald's pain, he just uses Gerald's plan for his own revenge purposes.

Shadow was programmed to carry out Gerald's plan. His memories were tampered with to get him to do what Gerald wanted. It shouldn't be hard to accept that alongside the false memories of Maria wanting revenge and calculations for a colony drop he slipped in a bit about uploading this video to tell everyone on Earth how terrible they are.

1 minute ago, Raijin said:

As for the space station, I forgot that GUN robots are on it, but it's a bit odd that there is no government awareness that Sonic and Eggman are on it at all isn't it? Again, it just seems a bit off to me.

We see very little of GUN/the government behind closed doors over the course of the game, so we don't know how much they knew about what was going on. Surely they figured it out after Eggman blew a chunk out of the moon at least, but I'm not sure what you expected to see from them in response.

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Just now, Mauricius said:

Was it ever stated in the games that Gerald was executed immediately after the incident? 

Well you hear gun shots in the video, that's what I'm referring to. I'm referring to how Gerald is killed in the video that he somehow uploads onto the ARK.

Just now, Diogenes said:

Don't blame the game for making you think a bit.

Is that really necessary :wacko:

1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

Shadow was programmed to carry out Gerald's plan. His memories were tampered with to get him to do what Gerald wanted. It shouldn't be hard to accept that alongside the false memories of Maria wanting revenge and calculations for a colony drop he slipped in a bit about uploading this video to tell everyone on Earth how terrible they are.

It's possible, but it's never alluded to in the game. It seems more likely to me that Sonic Team put the video on the Ark in the final story for dramatic exposition and didn't think of how the tape actually got onto the ARK. The scene works dramatically so it's easy to overlook. If Sonic Team did intend Shadow to upload the video it would surely be alluded to in some way. It isn't.

5 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

We see very little of GUN/the government behind closed doors over the course of the game, so we don't know how much they knew about what was going on. Surely they figured it out after Eggman blew a chunk out of the moon at least, but I'm not sure what you expected to see from them in response.

Well, I would except some sort of government response to two factions (light and dark) meddling on a base which has a top-secret military past. It makes no sense that the government does nothing while Sonic and Eggman are meddling about on the ARK.

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Im in a class right now so I would like to respond further but I cant atm

 

But one plot hole

Why did gun leave the space station intact? No government organization....ever would have done that ever. That thing would have been destroyed its valuables taken. And you cant use the " the debree would fall into the earth" excuse because by being there the it had already started doing that anyway.

It was falling apart in shadows game surey someone waa calculating that. + The litteral abominations they knew were on the station. It should be gone. They had space stations and efficient space travel and the funds for it 50 years ago. They could and should have solved that problem in 50 years especially with their excellerated technological growth.

Shadow should have woken up to "the arcs been destroyed for decades"

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1 hour ago, Raijin said:

It's possible, but it's never alluded to in the game. It seems more likely to me that Sonic Team put the video on the Ark in the final story for dramatic exposition and didn't think of how the tape actually got onto the ARK. The scene works dramatically so it's easy to overlook. If Sonic Team did intend Shadow to upload the video it would surely be alluded to in some way. It isn't.

The game shouldn't need to drop every minor detail at your feet. We know Shadow was responsible for putting Gerald's plan into action. Why do we need explicit confirmation of this particular detail? You don't see him plugging Gerald's calculations for the colony drop into the ARK's computers either, but are you going to argue we can't assume he's responsible for that either?

1 hour ago, Raijin said:

Well, I would except some sort of government response to two factions (light and dark) meddling on a base which has a top-secret military past. It makes no sense that the government does nothing while Sonic and Eggman are meddling about on the ARK.

The game takes place over the course of only a few days, remember. What little we do see of the government in action, they are starting to respond to it, but it's a slow and careful process, understandable when there's a madman who can have an orbital laser pointed at your country in minutes if you make him upset.

45 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Why did gun leave the space station intact?

I explained this in my earlier reply to Raijin; they wanted the issue buried after they fucked up, so the shut the ARK down and left it to rot, out of sight, out of mind. Is that the best decision they could've made? No, but that's human nature for you.

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On 26/09/2016 at 4:24 PM, Diogenes said:

Do you want to maybe discuss some of these holes and problems instead of just insisting that they're there? SA2's story isn't flawless, but I don't see the kind of gaping holes that you're implying. The only major issue I can think of is under what circumstances Gerald was able to "complete" Shadow after the raid on the ARK.

That and how he was able to create the Final Hazard program and input that into Biolizard while living in a maximum security jail cell. His thoughts for revenge can only have occurred after his arrest for his work on the ultimate life form project as Iogically, the raid that saw Gerald arrested had to have been the same raid that lead to Maria's death.

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49 minutes ago, Scar said:

That and how he was able to create the Final Hazard program and input that into Biolizard while living in a maximum security jail cell. His thoughts for revenge can only have occurred after his arrest for his work on the ultimate life form project as Iogically, the raid that saw Gerald arrested had to have been the same raid that lead to Maria's death.

He made his calculations in his cell, then implanted them in Shadow's brain when he brainwashed him.

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