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PROOF Sonic beat Shadow - Sonic Adventure 2 Explained


Starli7

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4 hours ago, Diogenes said:

The game shouldn't need to drop every minor detail at your feet. W55e know Shadow was responsible for putting Gerald's plan into action. Why do we need explicit confirmation of this particular detail? You don't see him plugging Gerald's calculations for the colony drop into the ARK's computers either, but are you going to argue we can't assume he's responsible for that either?

The game takes place over the course of only a few days, remember. What little we do see of the government in action, they are starting to respond to it, but it's a slow and careful process, understandable when there's a madman who can have an orbital laser pointed at your country in minutes if you make him upset.

I explained this in my earlier reply to Raijin; they wanted the issue buried after they fucked up, so the shut the ARK down and left it to rot, out of sight, out of mind. Is that the best decision they could've made? No, but that's human nature for you.

You know how you bury a body the way no one can find it

You destroy the body. Of all people a corrupt military origination would know that. Human nature would have been to use their already accelerated military might to erase thay thing from existance perminantly. It wasn't even just a bad descion, its one a military with the means to actually make it go away does not makes. They already went about killing everyone or most everyone who knew about that. Why stop there. If some ass hole was mumbling about revenge and that same asshole might have, (we dont know if shadow was... A person before or he was "home grown") basically  created dio brando. Im blowing everything that looks remotely like a place of development sky high.

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At this point you're just complaining that they didn't act as you would in their place, which isn't actually a plot hole.

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9 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

There are a few , the fact we are even having the conversation and the fact that people in this thread are complaining about "misinterpretations" en masse suggests that clearly... It isnt. Clearly other people say the story a lot of other people and came to very different conclusions. The fact this thread exists and arguments need to be made means that wasnt clear. Whether it be lack of skill or purposefully leaving stuff vuage, and its both.

You say, but if sonic did the thing with the canon. How could shadow win, so I play a lot of fighting games and "who actually won the thing" pops up" and unless explicitly told or shown a lot of times. A lot of the time to best interperate is well, no one won. The fight ended for various various reasons before both contenders could finish their bout. They had to stop, you mention shadow sulking but actually thats the moment any comes to him...for help. He knew the planet was going to get destroyed either way. If the fight is inconclusive sonic gets away he has no reason to chase him, worlds gonna explode either way. The story works being left up to interpretation because again because of aformentioned reason of shadow knew it was gonna happen either way but more importantly, sonic could just...get up. Shadow was more than content with letting peoples demise fall upon them, unlike later shadow in that game takes no lives actively. So shadow could have just won the fight got all "haha im the coolest" dipped, sonic got back up and did the thing. Or the fight was inconclusive sonic got away and shadow went " fuck it". And it works, sonic took a beating like champ still archived his goals, because he doesnt give up and had friends to help him. The lesson still works.

But the biggest thing is something I didnt wanna mention but you did.

In shadow the hedgehog a canon game. The eclipse canon is fine. The space colony arc is in ruins , eclipse canon is fine.  

Sonic failed.

There is no one sans eggman, who swore off all that...untill he made more death eggs. And tails...and come on would tails do that, who could fix that canon. That canon was intact. 

Sonic failed

You can't go by the logic that the ARK was still intact in Shadow the Hedgehog because the moon is also intact. By that logic you are implying that the entire story of SA2 isn't canon because the moon is clearly intact and the canon still fires in Shadow the Hedgehog. The writers of that game didn't go by the original source material; SA2, while writing Shadow the Hedgehog. SA2 surely has plot holes, but almost no contradictions between the hero and darkside of the story. No one is saying the story isn't flawed, but when you align what happened in the hero side of the story and what happened in the darkside of the story you can clearly see everything is happening in a different point in time.

The game isn't leaving anything open for interpretation, it's leaving the player with all the pieces of a puzzle so that any analytical thinker, or story dissector, can go through the game's plot and put everything in chronological order. If you seen my post above it literally has every event, from both stories, in chronological order. If you can find flaw in that timeline above I will be happy to debate it with you. But referring to a "sequel" game that already has more plot holes than actual story is a bit invalid for an argument.

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2 hours ago, Diogenes said:

At this point you're just complaining that they didn't act as you would in their place, which isn't actually a plot hole.

When the idea of a military destroy evidince horrific crimes exist today. Thats not a me thing, thats " thats how this functions" thing. Whether they are successful that's another thing, some dont even try to hide it but the destruction of evidence whether its people, facilities or documents is real...and documented oldly enough. 

So if a military was conducting experiments on immortality and then killed a space station full of people... Filled scientific abominations they funded? 

The arc would have been gone. 

Another thing, why wasnt rouge immediately found out by eggman?

2 hours ago, Starli7 said:

But referring to a "sequel" game that already has more plot holes than actual story is a bit invalid for an argument.

Im gonna focus on this bit.

No, if I play deus ex, not comparing those two stories in terms of quality calm down. But if im playing deus ex, and I thought for sure, this ending was the true ending. And the next game strait up says, "nah" then thats it.

Sonic didnt destroy the canon, he didn't get to it. He didnt even make it. Thats it. Full stop. You can't pick and pull the "chronological" order card when its convenient, my first thing was "it was left up to interpretation" belive what you want to belive, the game is open both on purpose but on accident so it allows for that. You didnt wish to go for that ,fine. We will play it your way chronological events that suggest an outcome.

Next chonological game that references that. Sonic didnt get to that canon that game didnt retcon itself out of existance its still referenced by sega.

Sonic failed.

2 hours ago, Starli7 said:

You can't go by the logic that the ARK was still intact in Shadow the Hedgehog because the moon is also intact.

As silly as the explination is, the moon "rotated". We can chalk that up to sonic geography is weird, and we could go with that given checkerboard foliage, aliens, exist with more natural regular and human cities. Their moon rotates.

There wasnt any explination on the arc. See you cant change the definition of destroyed, I mean they can for the universe in sonic but I doubt they would for this. It either got destoyed or it didnt. Sonic failed dude.

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3 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

When the idea of a military destroy evidince horrific crimes exist today. Thats not a me thing, thats " thats how this functions" thing. Whether they are successful that's another thing, some dont even try to hide it but the destruction of evidence whether its people, facilities or documents is real...and documented oldly enough.

First off, I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here. That military groups in real life are guilty of destroying evidence? I mean...yes, they are, with some being more thorough than others, but I don't see how that proves your point. GUN's goal in wiping out the research team on the ARK was to destroy any evidence that any of the experiments taking place there ever happened, right? Well, they killed everybody aboard, and captured most of the experiments and hid it away in their base. You can't really get more thorough than that. If you're suggesting that that wasn't enough and that the ARK itself also should have been dismantled or destroyed, well, ask yourself the logical question of why that wouldn't be a good idea. Depending on how noticeable the ARK is from the planet, (leaning towards not noticeable, since you can't see it in any level that doesn't take place around or inside it in SA2) it wouldn't be worth the effort, since nobody barring the immediate relatives of the original research team would even know of its existence, so why bother removing something nobody even knows exists? But even if you want to argue that people CAN see the ARK from the planet's surface, or that the general populace knows that the ARK exists (like how most people know Area 51 exists but nobody knows what actually goes on inside), then that leads to a whole different set of questions. Then you have people becoming curious as to why a scientific research colony is being disassembled, leading to conspiracy theories, people questioning their government, etc. The point is, all the evidence that anything happened aboard the ARK already was destroyed or taken, why go any further and risk people finding out?

4 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Another thing, why wasnt rouge immediately found out by eggman?

That's kind of the nature of being a spy, isn't it? Making sure the general public DOESN'T know who you are? Shadow, by nature, has ties to GUN due to being reprogrammed by Gerald and by naturally figuring stuff out while leaving Prison Island, so him figuring out who Rouge is isn't too far of a stretch, but Eggman? I realize that Eggman doesn't totally qualify as "general public." Hell, he's probably recognized as an international terrorist, but that being said, he doesn't know everything regarding GUN's staffing or plans. He didn't even know Shadow was a genetic experiment, much less one designed to look like a hedgehog. Note that this actually is a plot inconsistency, as Gerald's diary, which Eggman was in possession of (otherwise, even he wouldn't have known about Shadow) clearly refers to Shadow as a "him," while Eggman refers to Shadow as an "it," as just a weapon. He refers to Gerald's project as "a top secret military weapon," which proves that the knowledge Eggman possessed regarding both Gerald's work and GUN's involvement was only enough to break in and steal Shadow away. He didn't even realize that plugging in all seven emeralds would've caused the ARK to crash into the planet until it was too late. This knowledge was likely only known by Shadow himself, and had been lost to time, as Rouge's mission revolves around finding out more information regarding Project Shadow.

5 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

If im playing deus ex, and I thought for sure, this ending was the true ending. And the next game strait up says, "nah" then thats it.

Sonic didnt destroy the canon, he didn't get to it. He didnt even make it. Thats it. Full stop. You can't pick and pull the "chronological" order card when its convenient, my first thing was "it was left up to interpretation" belive what you want to belive, the game is open both on purpose but on accident so it allows for that. You didnt wish to go for that ,fine. We will play it your way chronological events that suggest an outcome.

Next chonological game that references that. Sonic didnt get to that canon that game didnt retcon itself out of existance its still referenced by sega.

Sonic failed.

As silly as the explination is, the moon "rotated". We can chalk that up to sonic geography is weird, and we could go with that given checkerboard foliage, aliens, exist with more natural regular and human cities. Their moon rotates.

There wasnt any explination on the arc. See you cant change the definition of destroyed, I mean they can for the universe in sonic but I doubt they would for this. It either got destoyed or it didnt. Sonic failed dude.

Except that Sonic stopping the laser from firing doesn't equal the ARK being destroyed. In fact, the ARK is just fine during the Last Story, which takes place immediately afterwards. I really want you to point out where the game Shadow the Hedgehog points to the fact that Sonic didn't end up making it to the cannon. Because that doesn't make any sense. If Sonic didn't stop the cannon from firing, then the planet wouldn't still exist, it'd be blown to tiny pieces. Judging by the logic that there are more Sonic games that take place on the same planet, we can rule that out as a possibility.

In fact, do you want a better question to pose in terms of potential plot holes? Why was Rouge attacked by Flying Dog in Security Hall? If she works for GUN, why would she be attacked by another GUN agent? The only reason I can think of is that GUN didn't feel comfortable giving Rouge the Chaos Emeralds with the knowledge that they'd be used to power the Eclipse Cannon. After all, Rouge's mission was more for reconnaissance on Eggman's plans and Project Shadow, not to risk giving Eggman the power to actually threaten the planet. Rouge was probably acting outside of the orders she was given, thinking she could just steal the emeralds back while Eggman wasn't present. Some division of GUN probably sent Flying Dog because they believed they couldn't trust Rouge anymore. But that explanation doesn't quite make sense as she continues communication with GUN even after the Security Hall incident. Not to mention the fact that even after confronted by Shadow at the end of the Dark Story, she still doesn't steal the Chaos Emeralds back. I really don't have an explanation for this one.

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19 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

There are a few , the fact we are even having the conversation and the fact that people in this thread are complaining about "misinterpretations" en masse suggests that clearly... It isnt. Clearly other people say the story a lot of other people and came to very different conclusions. The fact this thread exists and arguments need to be made means that wasnt clear. Whether it be lack of skill or purposefully leaving stuff vuage, and its both.

There are still people who believe the world is flat too. I wouldn't have to look hard to find people who think the moon landing is fake either. Some of the best movies on the planet have detractors who call them garbage. Doesn't make that a point of contention though. Earth is still round, moon landing went down and acclaimed movies are viewed as acclaimed no matter what a few people in the crowd might say.

People are free to come to their own conclusions sure, and that is proved by some of the back and forth in this thread.  However I would imagine that it is safe to believe that the vast majority of people coming out of SA2 would make the assumption that Sonic won because the events line up in such a way that it is HEAVILY implied that he did.

We never see Bambi's mom die in the movie. All we get is a gun shot sound and her extended absence. There is no physical proof that she died, However, I don't think it a stretch to say she bit the big one and its certainly not a stretch to say that despite the lack of solid evidence, that the average person would come to the same conclusion. It fits the narrative and it is heavily implied. SA2 is no different. Sonic winning fits the narrative (the stuff that happens before it, and the events that follow) and is heavily implied by such.

 

Quote

You say, but if sonic did the thing with the canon. How could shadow win, so I play a lot of fighting games and "who actually won the thing" pops up" and unless explicitly told or shown a lot of times. A lot of the time to best interperate is well, no one won. The fight ended for various various reasons before both contenders could finish their bout. They had to stop, you mention shadow sulking but actually thats the moment any comes to him...for help. He knew the planet was going to get destroyed either way. If the fight is inconclusive sonic gets away he has no reason to chase him, worlds gonna explode either way. The story works being left up to interpretation because again because of aformentioned reason of shadow knew it was gonna happen either way but more importantly, sonic could just...get up. Shadow was more than content with letting peoples demise fall upon them, unlike later shadow in that game takes no lives actively. So shadow could have just won the fight got all "haha im the coolest" dipped, sonic got back up and did the thing. Or the fight was inconclusive sonic got away and shadow went " fuck it". And it works, sonic took a beating like champ still archived his goals, because he doesnt give up and had friends to help him. The lesson still works.

You could make roundabout versions justifiable to make downright anything happen if you really wanted to. If you put an equal amount of effort into it, you could spin a narrative tale into the mix where Silver portaled in from the future and broke up the fight. The point is, that you have to make much more of a reach and make many more assumptions for any of that to work.

In this case lets stick to the facts.

-Sonic wanted to stop the Eclipse Canon from firing. Sonic's mission was to do just that. (confirmed)

-Shadow told Sonic he would kill him to prevent him from completing his mission. Shadow's mission was to stop Sonic's mission (confirmed)

-Sonic and Shadow fight (winner ?)

-The Eclipse Canon does not fire (confirmed)

 

To come to any conclusion other than Sonic winning would be to create additional unnecessary dialog. In order for Shadow to win, he'd have to recant on his desire to kill Sonic. He'd have to bail on his mission to allow the Eclipse canon to fire. We'd have to find a way to justify why Sonic is still alive. We'd have to explain why they Eclipse canon failed to fire. That is a pretty tall stack of assumptions right there. All of which also come with the additional baggage of being a complete 180 for his character at the time.

That's at least four assumptions you'd have to make. (Shadow wins / why did he not kill Sonic / why did he not complete his mission / why did the eclipse canon not fire ) Four things you'd have to explain and justify with no supporting material to back it up. Four activities that go against the characters current goals motivations and personality. Whereas inversely, there is only one assumption to make when you go the other direction. Sonic wins. Thats one assumption. One assumption that fits the narrative to a T. One assumption that requires no extra facts and no extra explanations. If Sonic wins, he is able to stop the canon from firing - like we know he did. If Sonic wins, the events of the Last Story are still free to go into motion - like we know they did. If Sonic wins Shadow is unable to kill him - Like we know he didn't. If Sonic wins, then Shadow is free to retreat to the Arc where Amy can find him - Like we know she did.

On one hand, we get a straightforward response that fits the narrative. On the other, you get a multitude of assumptions that require explanations as to how/why they opposed the current motivations of Shadow.

Common sense tells you that only one of these choices is actually right.

Bambi's mom is Dead

Sonic wins. period.

 

Quote

But the biggest thing is something I didnt wanna mention but you did.

In shadow the hedgehog a canon game. The eclipse canon is fine. The space colony arc is in ruins , eclipse canon is fine.  

Sonic failed.

There is no one sans eggman, who swore off all that...untill he made more death eggs. And tails...and come on would tails do that, who could fix that canon. That canon was intact. 

Sonic failed

Well, that same game saw half the moon get blown off, and yet in the rest of the series its perfectly fine. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say whatever "magic" fixed the moon also fixed the Eclipse Canon.

Not that is matters, but for all we know, Bioliazrd could have repaired the thing when he fused with it. He did have regenerative properties after all.

2 hours ago, Writer's Blah said:

In fact, do you want a better question to pose in terms of potential plot holes? Why was Rouge attacked by Flying Dog in Security Hall? If she works for GUN, why would she be attacked by another GUN agent?

That's easier to explain. Technically speaking, Rouge wasn't working for GUN at the time. She worked and reported directly to the President. Flying Dog and GUN brass may not have even known who she was even though she technically played for the same team. It wasn't until later titles that Rouge got cozy with GUN. Its not surprising when spies keep their identities a secret even to some of their allies.

 

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10 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

There are still people who believe the world is flat too. I wouldn't have to look hard to find people who think the moon landing is fake either. Some of the best movies on the planet have detractors who call them garbage. Doesn't make that a point of contention though. Earth is still round, moon landing went down and acclaimed movies are viewed as acclaimed no matter what a few people in the crowd might say.

People are free to come to their own conclusions sure, and that is proved by some of the back and forth in this thread.  However I would imagine that it is safe to believe that the vast majority of people coming out of SA2 would make the assumption that Sonic won because the events line up in such a way that it is HEAVILY implied that he did.

We never see Bambi's mom die in the movie. All we get is a gun shot sound and her extended absence. There is no physical proof that she died, However, I don't think it a stretch to say she bit the big one and its certainly not a stretch to say that despite the lack of solid evidence, that the average person would come to the same conclusion. It fits the narrative and it is heavily implied. SA2 is no different. Sonic winning fits the narrative (the stuff that happens before it, and the events that follow) and is heavily implied by such.

 

You could make roundabout versions justifiable to make downright anything happen if you really wanted to. If you put an equal amount of effort into it, you could spin a narrative tale into the mix where Silver portaled in from the future and broke up the fight. The point is, that you have to make much more of a reach and make many more assumptions for any of that to work.

In this case lets stick to the facts.

-Sonic wanted to stop the Eclipse Canon from firing. Sonic's mission was to do just that. (confirmed)

-Shadow told Sonic he would kill him to prevent him from completing his mission. Shadow's mission was to stop Sonic's mission (confirmed)

-Sonic and Shadow fight (winner ?)

-The Eclipse Canon does not fire (confirmed)

 

To come to any conclusion other than Sonic winning would be to create additional unnecessary dialog. In order for Shadow to win, he'd have to recant on his desire to kill Sonic. He'd have to bail on his mission to allow the Eclipse canon to fire. We'd have to find a way to justify why Sonic is still alive. We'd have to explain why they Eclipse canon failed to fire. That is a pretty tall stack of assumptions right there. All of which also come with the additional baggage of being a complete 180 for his character at the time.

That's at least four assumptions you'd have to make. (Shadow wins / why did he not kill Sonic / why did he not complete his mission / why did the eclipse canon not fire ) Four things you'd have to explain and justify with no supporting material to back it up. Four activities that go against the characters current goals motivations and personality. Whereas inversely, there is only one assumption to make when you go the other direction. Sonic wins. Thats one assumption. One assumption that fits the narrative to a T. One assumption that requires no extra facts and no extra explanations. If Sonic wins, he is able to stop the canon from firing - like we know he did. If Sonic wins, the events of the Last Story are still free to go into motion - like we know they did. If Sonic wins Shadow is unable to kill him - Like we know he didn't. If Sonic wins, then Shadow is free to retreat to the Arc where Amy can find him - Like we know she did.

On one hand, we get a straightforward response that fits the narrative. On the other, you get a multitude of assumptions that require explanations as to how/why they opposed the current motivations of Shadow.

Common sense tells you that only one of these choices is actually right.

Bambi's mom is Dead

Sonic wins. period.

 

Well, that same game saw half the moon get blown off, and yet in the rest of the series its perfectly fine. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say whatever "magic" fixed the moon also fixed the Eclipse Canon.

Not that is matters, but for all we know, Bioliazrd could have repaired the thing when he fused with it. He did have regenerative properties after all.

That's easier to explain. Technically speaking, Rouge wasn't working for GUN at the time. She worked and reported directly to the President. Flying Dog and GUN brass may not have even known who she was even though she technically played for the same team. It wasn't until later titles that Rouge got cozy with GUN. Its not surprising when spies keep their identities a secret even to some of their allies.

 

You sir, have won the interwebs for the day. 

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Something I'm just a little confused about:

Doesn't Gerald basically say in his recording that he programmed his 'initiative' (crashing the whole ARK into the Earth) to activate once all seven Chaos Emeralds were placed into the Eclipse Cannon? In other words, the cannon was likely never going to fire at that point? I just don't really see the initiative activating with Sonic's fake Emerald being inserted into the cannon. I dunno, am I missing something here?

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1 hour ago, Captain Metallix said:

Something I'm just a little confused about:

Doesn't Gerald basically say in his recording that he programmed his 'initiative' (crashing the whole ARK into the Earth) to activate once all seven Chaos Emeralds were placed into the Eclipse Cannon? In other words, the cannon was likely never going to fire at that point? I just don't really see the initiative activating with Sonic's fake Emerald being inserted into the cannon. I dunno, am I missing something here?

Sonic's fake chaos emerald was never inserted into the canon, UNLESS Sonic somehow installed it in an area where it shouldn't have been installed, as he does say that he'll "slam dunk it in there". However, the emerald that does get inserted into the canon is the real chaos emerald by Eggman, that he grabbed from Tails after their fight. 

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On 9/26/2016 at 0:18 AM, Starli7 said:

In Sonic Adventure 2, ALL of the game's cutscenes are canon, and none of them contradict each other (unlike in the original Sonic Adventure where cutscenes would show different results for rival battles, this game skips any cutscene that would contradict another)
I've compiled a list of every cutscene in their general order... (broken up by Time Stamps, and by events... with references to the Game's chapter names as often as possible)
 

 
21:02
Eggman breaks into Prison Island; releases Shadow; Shadow fights Hot Shot

11:08
Enter Knuckes and Rouge as they fight over the Master Emerald only for it to be shattered to keep it from Eggman

13:27
Sonic escapes GUN in City Escape

20:22
Eggman goes to his Hidden Base Again and sees the news; Shadow's Past flashback to Maria's death; Sonic battles with Big Foot, meets Shadow, Shadow escapes as Sonic is recaptured by GUN

22:18
Rouge Infiltrates Hidden Base

22:41
Eggman breaks into ARK; Gathering of the Dark in central control room with Eclipse Cannon with Rouge joining

11:13
Invade Prison Island again, find Amy

11:56
Tails attempts Rescuing Sonic and finds Amy being chased by Eggman; Amy releases Sonic from prison
Eggman has Shadow set Bomb countdown to 15 minutes
Rouge has 5:00 of the 15m to Get Chaos Emeralds, gets trapped by Flying Dog distraction
With under 10:00 left, Rouge radios Shadow to explain why she is holding up the Prison Island Escape; Shadow races toward her but instead winds up with a Face Off with Sonic
With either 01:28 (Shadow cutscene) or 8:00 (Sonic gameplay) left before Bomb goes off Eggman radios Shadow to end the face off; Sonic races off to find Tails and Amy; Shadow runs off to finish his trek toward Rouge
With just under 01:00 left, Shadow breaks into the vault with Rouge and the Emeralds and with under 00:07 left (around 00:04 actually) uses Chaos Control to get them out - the island then blows up as the Heroes fly away

17:30
Knuckles checks out the Ghost Mountain that is Pumpkin Hill

Shadow has a short flashback before the Dark team readies the Eclipse Canon

Day X 18:00
Eggman broadcasts globally his declaration of World Domination by The Eggman Empire and blows up half of moon
Sonic and co spring into action to track down Eggman with Tails's Emerald

20:21
Knuckles checks out the Aquatic Mine

9:03
Knuckles joins Tails and Amy, Tails realizes he can track Where's Eggman from President's limo
Sonic and Tails get into President's limo where Eggman is demanding surrender in 24 hours via communication signal, they cut Eggman's negotiations with the President off and trace the signal
Eggman throws tantrum, Rouge reveals she found the Last Chaos Emerald is in Tails's possession, Rouge secretly places a call
Simultaneously in President's limo, Tails finishes his trace of Eggman's signal to ARK, they leave just as President gets a call from his "agent" (Rouge duh)
Rouge chases Tornado III; hands off to Shadow who realizes they are heading toward Eggman's Hidden Base

13:04
Heroes reach and begin infiltration of Eggman's Hidden Base

14:58
Knuckles completes the Heroes' infiltration of Eggman's Hidden Base, Eggman Intercepts them with Egg Golem; Sonic damages it and it attacks Eggman; Heroes get into Eggman's Shuttle for Blast Off; the shuttle collides with debris losing Master Emerald pieces

Cannon Countdown 2 hours 11 minutes
Rouge tricks Eggman into letting her hack into ARK computer and detects Master Emerald (or detects the Heroes getting into ARK in GC remake) which she goes after the Last Pieces; simultaniously, Heroes have boarded ARK and realize that Knuckles has also gone after the Last Pieces of the Master Emerald, they make their plans around Tails's fake Emerald

Cannon Countdown 58 minutes
Eggman detects an extra Emerald and deduces that there is a fake, Eggman's Plan is to transport up and take the Heroes on himself, Shadow is back up

Cannon Countdown 45 minutes*
Sonic shown in control room receiving call from Tails and Eggman about Amy being held hostage
Rouge has her Face Off with Knuckles

Cannon Countdown 33 minutes*
Eggman finds Amy alone and takes her hostage; Sonic tries to exchange the fake Emerald for Amy but Eggman tricks the Heroes and jettisons Sonic out into space inside a capsule, Sonic in Trouble realizes that the fake Emerald is very similar to a real one

Cannon Countdown 21 minutes 7 seconds
Sonic's capsule explodes as everyone, including Shadow from another location, watch; Eggman begins fight with Tails; simultaneously, Sonic appears in front of Knuckles having used Chaos Control and races off toward the cannon
During Tails vs Eggman battle, Shadow confronts Rouge having discovered she is an agent for the President, Rouge confronts Shadow about her research into him, Eggman doing multitasking in his battle radios Shadow to tell him that Eggman has found the 7th Emeralds but he's detected someone messing around the Eclipse Cannon

Cannon Countdown 5 minutes 44 seconds
Shadow catches up to Sonic and The Last Battle between them begins

Cannon Countdown 1 minute 33 seconds
Tails has defeated Eggman when Sonic calls on the radio, the distraction allows Eggman to sneak off with the last Emerald

Cannon Countdown 40 seconds
Eggman places final Emerald into the Eclipse Cannon, WARNING sign appears
As Eclipse Cannon begins its big attack, parts of it explode as Sonic was aiming to do (though its superstructure is left largely intact and the what little damage is done appears to be mostly some explosive feedback - the FinalHazard attaches it self to the superstructure later)

Last Story Begins

There is only one minor issue with the time stamps which I marked above with asterisks: Sonic is shown getting the radio call from Tails and Eggman about Amy's hostage situation in the Hero story with the Cannon Countdown @ 45 minutes then Sonic makes the confrontation @ 33 minutes left; yet the Dark story shows Eggman finding Amy @ 33 minutes then jumps right into the confrontation - this is easily correctable by just bumping Eggman finding Amy to an earlier time stamp. Otherwise there are no other obvious contradictions within the game. Some fans claim that the final Hero side cutscene is not canon because the Eclipse Cannon still works in Shadow's game, but the same is true of the moon - which is still in one piece - and the CG animation of the Eclipse Cannon exploding shows so little actual damage done that it may have even been usable again.

The lack of contradiction clearly means all SA2 cutscenes are meant to be canon.

 

This guy summarizes it pretty well.

I'd respond but my ancient post (from 3/2/2012) was already quoted. Thanks for the recognition Starli7

And that video knocked it out of the park - Hey Starli, are you RLGlitch?

Its clear Sonic beat Shadow, so what next... "who dealt the final blow to FinalHazard"? lol

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21 hours ago, Darth InVaders said:

I'd respond but my ancient post (from 3/2/2012) was already quoted. Thanks for the recognition Starli7

And that video knocked it out of the park - Hey Starli, are you RLGlitch?

Its clear Sonic beat Shadow, so what next... "who dealt the final blow to FinalHazard"? lol

That was you that I quoted?

Yes, RLGlitch Gaming is my gaming channel. 

Actually I would love to do a video like that, but I prefer trying to proof things as real rather than theorize... However I guess they are kinda the same thing. lol There's more to go off of with the Sonic V Shadow topic though. Haha!

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  • 1 month later...
On 9/28/2016 at 2:10 PM, Captain Metallix said:

Something I'm just a little confused about:

Doesn't Gerald basically say in his recording that he programmed his 'initiative' (crashing the whole ARK into the Earth) to activate once all seven Chaos Emeralds were placed into the Eclipse Cannon? In other words, the cannon was likely never going to fire at that point? I just don't really see the initiative activating with Sonic's fake Emerald being inserted into the cannon. I dunno, am I missing something here?

That's interesting. Also, sorry for the delayed response. Eggman managed to install all 7 REAL emeralds into the the central firing mechanism. Sonic must have found another area to insert it which caused the canon to backfire, almost like plugging a central exhaust port. I guess he pulled a Luke Skywalker vs The Death Star. 

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