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Speak With Your Wallet?


Baraksha

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There is something that's been bothering me lately. You know the "Mania will have more rehashes" thing right? Well alot of people seem to be disapointed and even angry at this fact and I totaly understand, I mayself feel kind of sad that we won't have a comepletely new expirience as we though. However that's not nearly enough to make me any less exited for Mania. Anywayd I was thinking, people like to say "speak with your wallet" when it comes to telling the developers what they should do. However Sonic Mania does seem to bring alot of attention to many people and will most likely sell really well. Probably well enough to make SEGA and their developers to think that they are in the right direction and that there is no error that are necesary to fix. While I do think Sonic Mania is awesome and I love it I still wish for better then this. So does that mean I have to skip Mania to show them this is not what we want? Because that might tell them "we hate this idea" rather then "you could do better". I'm just confused on what to do if I want to show that I still like the idea but I wish it was better.

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I see your point, but I feel it's more likely that they'll let the team make more original games instead of telling them to make "Mania 2."

Though honestly at this point I want Sonic to keep moving with 3D (and be a good game) more than another 2D game.

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If no one buys Mania, it's very likely SEGA will never go back to classic games with classic physics ever again. Mania is a celebration of the classics, SEGA know fans love the classic games so I don't blame them for playing up the classic-angle. Although of course I would prefer a 2d game with all completely original stages. Also, SEGA's restructures (a few years back) have apparently put them in a better position to receive and process fan-feedback.

Mania hasn't been released yet, so it's a bit too early to judge. Remember, the classic stages are reimagined (Green Hill is apparently the tamest), so it may turn out the reimagined stages are different/unique enough from the original versions to garner enough praise to help Mania receive a good critical reception.

The ideal scenario would be for Mania to be enough of a success to make SEGA realise there is a profitable market for more 2d games, and that a game with all new content isn't such a big risk.

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There's a difference between rehashing and remixing.

Rehashing old levels is what Generations 3DS did; literally making the same exact level with the same design and the same enemy placement but with a new look. What Mania is doing is remixing them, what may look familiar will eventually start to feel like an entirely different level altogether. I mean, if you paid attention to the footage shown in Green Hill you'll notice some things that weren't in the original Green Hill Zone.

To further prove my point, I'll post the same image I posted at the Mania thread.

Cs9YQYvWEAEQ0L7.jpg

And that's just the tamest of the changes Whitehead and crew did to these kinds of levels. I mean, if you're still disappointed by it; that's fine. I personally don't really care but you do you.

 

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10 minutes ago, Soni said:

There's a difference between rehashing and remixing.

Rehashing old levels is what Generations 3DS did; literally making the same exact level with the same design and the same enemy placement but with a new look. What Mania is doing is remixing them, what may look familiar will eventually start to feel like an entirely different level altogether. I mean, if you paid attention to the footage shown in Green Hill you'll notice some things that weren't in the original Green Hill Zone.

To further prove my point, I'll post the same image I posted at the Mania thread.

Cs9YQYvWEAEQ0L7.jpg

And that's just the tamest of the changes Whitehead and crew did to these kinds of levels. I mean, if you're still disappointed by it; that's fine. I personally don't really care but you do you.

 

Oh wow, nice picture, this will be useful for my Sonic Mania Hack (coming soon)

Anyways, like I said, I am still very hyped for mania, I was just wondering because I don't think I believe in the phrase "speak with your wallet" anymore. I is most likely the best way to deal with companies that are not very cknnected with their fanvase and doing whatever just because it would sell anyways, but SEGA are not like that now, infact I would argue that SEGA and Sonic Team are probably more close to theur fanbase and listening more then they ever were. So I guess the answer to my question is, depands on the company and how much they care about fan feedback

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Personally Sega going back to formula for Mania is why I am liking Sonic again.

Now yes there isnt too much original about Sonic Mania and yes it feels like generations all over again.

But heres the thing, generations was a good game.

Hitting the reset button for the entire franchise is the best thing to do, make sonic multi console again, stop with the experimental bull and go back to formula

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56 minutes ago, Blacklightning said:

The problem with voting with your wallet is that so many publishers in the industry - and Sega is far from an exception here - react in such knee-jerk fashion that they'll view every single thing attached to the game in a negative light, even things that weren't really bad or broken. For example, notice how Sonic '17 is the first main game we've had in nearly ten years that takes a tone of the more serious kind? We have 06 and Unleashed partly to thank for that, games that received such a critical mauling that Sega decided they wanted almost nothing to do with them, and not always for the better. Appealing on a financial level only really works on a company that understands literally nothing else, and even if it didn't have all the subtlety of swatting a fly with a gatling gun most publishers that far gone are generally beyond hope anyway.

Frankly, the problem if anything is the exact opposite - not that the fanbase has any problem trying to communicate the problems they have with the franchise (anyone familiar with our brand of pedantry knows they're very well documented by now), but rather that Sega's attempts to listen and comprehend what their audience is telling them is generally fleeting at best, and flat out lunacy at worst. The burden shouldn't fucking have to be on us to tell Sega what good marketing and game design is either, on that note.

You know how people generally say that Sonic Team don't really have an idea on how to handle the series anymore? Yea, that's kind alluding to why they're so critical of the reception they receive.

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49 minutes ago, Blacklightning said:

Frankly, the problem if anything is the exact opposite - not that the fanbase has any problem trying to communicate the problems they have with the franchise (anyone familiar with our brand of pedantry knows they're very well documented by now), but rather that Sega's attempts to listen and comprehend what their audience is telling them is generally fleeting at best, and flat out lunacy at worst. The burden shouldn't fucking have to be on us to tell Sega what good marketing and game design is either, on that note.

What you've got at is one of the biggest problems I have with taking the consumerist approach, and ultimately what turned me off it in recent times. When people say "Just don't buy bad games so you won't get more crap.", there's the implication the people who did buy the game are primarily responsible for the company continuing to produce crap. Despite the fact that the customer had absolutely nothing to do with the games' development or the developer's and publisher's decision-making, and may well be the victim of dishonest marketing and/or incorrect assumptions about the game. Or lord forbid, might not actually think the game is crap and want to support it.

It reminds me of a post (I wish I could find it) somebody made on NeoGAF, where the poster claimed that the Sonic fandom needed to start holding itself accountable for the fall of Sonic and stop buying Sonic games blindly. Briefly setting aside the fact that no, Sonic fans do not buy Sonic games blindly (look at the sales of Sonic 06 and RoL/SC for proof of that), its really unfair to expect fans to be held responsible for bad corporate decisions just for purchasing some products they think or thought would be good. Not to mention that its yet another flimsy attempt to paint Sonic fans as morons who need to be enlightened on proper buying habits...

I mean, yes, if a game doesn't interest you, you don't have to buy it. If Sonic keeps disappointing you, you should move on to other franchises. Plus, I do encourage fans to give feedback and stuff-- Sega does seem to listen. But ultimately, its on Sega and Sonic Team to make good decisions-- and there's nothing you or me can do to force them to do that. Perhaps that's the true origin of the whole "speak with your wallet" thing-- it makes people feel like they can do something about this. Unfortunately, what it does generally ranges from absolutely nothing (because Sega has some other franchises and merch to fall back on) to encouraging bad decisions (because the low sales spook Sega and it assumes that everything about that game is hated). While it sucks to be so powerless, its better to accept that, move on if needed, and not be so judgy about people's buying choices than to fall back on ineffectual tactics.

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I'd say what fans should do to help out SEGA figure out what went wrong with a poor outing is to just tell them what they didn't like about the game. ALL OF IT!

Personally, I'd say that's a better move than saying "lol nope ain't buying it".

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3 hours ago, Soni said:

There's a difference between rehashing and remixing.

Rehashing old levels is what Generations 3DS did; literally making the same exact level with the same design and the same enemy placement but with a new look. What Mania is doing is remixing them, what may look familiar will eventually start to feel like an entirely different level altogether. I mean, if you paid attention to the footage shown in Green Hill you'll notice some things that weren't in the original Green Hill Zone.

To further prove my point, I'll post the same image I posted at the Mania thread.

Cs9YQYvWEAEQ0L7.jpg

And that's just the tamest of the changes Whitehead and crew did to these kinds of levels. I mean, if you're still disappointed by it; that's fine. I personally don't really care but you do you.

 

i'm sorry, do you happen to have a higher resolution version of this pic?

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9 hours ago, Mad Convoy said:

I mean, yes, if a game doesn't interest you, you don't have to buy it. If Sonic keeps disappointing you, you should move on to other franchises. Plus, I do encourage fans to give feedback and stuff-- Sega does seem to listen.

I neglected to mention this last night because I kinda had to leave in a hurry, but I did want to add that I do think Sega as of late is visibly improving in interacting with their audience. A lot of this is down to Webber and Stealth, granted, but it's still a huge step up from maybe acknowledging the demand for a particular kind of game like 5 years after it ceases to be relevant, and otherwise just throwing random bullshit on people that nobody ever wanted or asked for. My argument was less a stab at current day Sega and more an analysis of the hole they'd dug themselves in leading up to this mess.

Now hopefully Sonic '17 turns out alright and I don't end up looking stupid in hindsight! =D

;w;

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