Why did Rouge become so mean?

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, Sniper dreams said:

You expect him to destroy both claws so quickly? Not possible.

The guy smashes robots on the regular. The guy is strong enough to shatter stone by casual swinging his arms as he walks. On what grounds do you declare it "not possible" for him to smash a grabby claw?

1 minute ago, Sniper dreams said:

He can't pull it loose because it's already secured and he has no foothold to help him. How do you expect him to get to the eggpod as well? He can't try to climb up M.E the way he normally does (the traditional way), or he'd break it. He just jumped on the M.E and probably tried to figure out how to get it back without destroying it, since it's not exactly an easy puzzle. 

It is, in fact, an easy puzzle, and the solution is punch Eggman's shit. I don't know why you think he couldn't have punched the claw when it was right in his face, or held onto the claw to climb up if he was so worried about breaking the emerald (even though he does it so casually in SA2). At any rate, "hang there and get electrocuted" was absolutely the wrong answer, so he's not winning any points for that.

1 minute ago, Sniper dreams said:

Rewatching the scene, Knuckles never even really gave Eggman trust either. He didn't trust anyone at all really. He assumed Eggman had the Master Emerald shards and went to attack him, and only stopped because he saw the silver Chaos emerald. Then Eggman just said 'Oh, Sonic's after the M.E. shard, go figure it out yourself'. 

Knuckles going around taking swings at anyone who happens to be holding a jewel of some sort doesn't speak any better of his intelligence.

1 minute ago, Sniper dreams said:

And since Sonic looked like he had the M.E and was reluctant to show it or give it to Knuckles, why wouldn't Knuckles fight Sonic? 

By "reluctant" you mean, Sonic managed to get two words out before Knuckles started throwing punches. Maybe if Knuckles had tried talking to him (you know, the common courtesy he showed to proven asshole Eggman, not proven ally Sonic), there wouldn't have been a pointless fight that led to Eggman getting two more emeralds.

[Lucid Dream]

51 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

The guy smashes robots on the regular. The guy is strong enough to shatter stone by casual swinging his arms as he walks. On what grounds do you declare it "not possible" for him to smash a grabby claw?

It is, in fact, an easy puzzle, and the solution is punch Eggman's shit. I don't know why you think he couldn't have punched the claw when it was right in his face, or held onto the claw to climb up if he was so worried about breaking the emerald (even though he does it so casually in SA2). At any rate, "hang there and get electrocuted" was absolutely the wrong answer, so he's not winning any points for that.

Why would he punch the claw when he could break the emerald, and it wouldn't be easy to break 2 claws on opposite ends of a precious jewel in less than 10 seconds. And, yea he should climb up a metal claw, that would totally make such a difference. Even though metal conducts electricity. 

Knuckles destroyed the Emerald in SA2, because he knew he'd have no other choice but to if Eggman gets a strong grip on the M.E again. And he knows how to track the M.E, so he has more confidence. He's learning from experience. It's called context.

Quote

Knuckles going around taking swings at anyone who happens to be holding a jewel of some sort doesn't speak any better of his intelligence.

By "reluctant" you mean, Sonic managed to get two words out before Knuckles started throwing punches. Maybe if Knuckles had tried talking to him (you know, the common courtesy he showed to proven asshole Eggman, not proven ally Sonic), there wouldn't have been a pointless fight that led to Eggman getting two more emeralds.

Except, this isn't any jewel. Knuckles can sense emeralds like Chaos emeralds and Sol Emeralds, but he can't quite tell them apart. Why are you assuming nonsense? 

I don't know sometimes, maybe you should try reading what I write? Knuckles was just showing Sonic he was going to fight if he didn't comply (think of a warning shot). It's increadibly obvious that clearly wasn't intended to hit him. Maybe you should play SADX again before talking nonsense. Knuckles did talk to Sonic before fighting him. 

What more do you want Sonic to say? He refused to show or give Knuckles the emerald (that knuckles thought was the M.E.). Knuckles showed Sonic that he would fight to get back his possessions, and that's what he did. On the other hand, when Knuckles approached Eggman, he immediately put his hands up and showed Knuckles the Chaos Emerald and told him he's misunderstanding. It's a world of a difference, and it's due to context.

It's so increadibly obvious and simple. It's called a misunderstanding. It's not even that strange of a misunderstanding since Sonics chaos Emerald was green. Maybe you should stop making baseless assumptions like thinking Knuckles trusted Eggman in SA. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

1 hour ago, Soni.exe said:

This isn't being naive anymore, this is being downright stupid! Not even Boom Knuckles trusts Eggman in the their universe!

That is fucking sad....has he not even been tricked in the Boom verse? (I'm asking because I find Boom difficult to keep my attention on)

[Diogenes]

17 minutes ago, Sniper dreams said:

Why would he punch the claw when he could break the emerald, and it wouldn't be easy to break 2 claws on opposite ends of a precious jewel in less than 10 seconds. And, yea he should climb up a metal claw, that would totally make such a difference. Even though metal conducts electricity. 

This is honestly getting ridiculous. You're expecting Knuckles to treat the emerald like a faberge egg and not even do so much as breathe in its general direction lest it shatter, in spite of the fact that he could repair it even if it did. You're acting like he has to destroy both sides of a pincer claw to get it to drop something, and even if that made sense that he made the right choice to not even try. You're acting as if the whole of the eggmobile would be electrified when it's clearly just the taser-tentacles that shock him.

17 minutes ago, Sniper dreams said:

Except, this isn't any jewel. Knuckles can sense emeralds like Chaos emeralds and Sol Emeralds, but he can't quite tell them apart. Why are you assuming nonsense? 

Dude's not smart enough to stop and think that the thing he's sensing might be a chaos emerald rather than a shard, even after making that mistake once.

17 minutes ago, Sniper dreams said:

I don't know sometimes, maybe you should try reading? Knuckles was just showing Sonic he was going to fight if he didn't comply (think of a warning shot).

Oh yes, I regularly take warning shots at my friends before even asking them my question. Because pissing them off makes things go much smoother than just asking. Intimidation and assault are how smart people talk to their friends.

17 minutes ago, Sniper dreams said:

It's increadibly obvious that clearly wasn't intended to hit him. 

That's why Sonic had to dodge, right? Regardless, not a smart way to greet a friend.

17 minutes ago, Sniper dreams said:

What more do you want Sonic to say?

No no, it's not what I want Sonic to say, it's what I want Knuckles to say. Like "Hey Sonic, is that a big emerald shard, or the green Chaos Emerald?" or "Hey Sonic, the Master Emerald exploded and I'm looking for its pieces, have you seen any?" Not throwing a punch and then demanding whatever emeralds he had with no explanation. Is it any surprise that Sonic wasn't eager to cooperate after that?

17 minutes ago, Sniper dreams said:

He refused to show or give Knuckles the emerald (that knuckles thought was the M.E.). Knuckles showed Sonic that he would fight to get back his possessions, and that's what he did. On the other hand, when Knuckles approached Eggman, he immediately put his hands up and showed Knuckles the Chaos Emerald. It's a world of a difference, and it's due to context.

Yeah the context of Knuckles not immediately assaulting him and him actually specifying that he was looking for the Master Emerald, because apparently Eggman is more deserving of trust than Sonic in his eyes.

[FriendBot]

Just now, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

That is fucking sad....has he not even been tricked in the Boom verse? (I'm asking because I find Boom difficult to keep my attention on)

Nope, the only times where you can sort of consider him tricked into doing is from Sonic and crew. In the Boom comic, it was Knuckles that tricked Eggman. 

If the supposedly "dumber than Main Series Knuckles" Boom Knuckles knows to not trust a word what Boom Eggman says, then it speaks volumes on just how idiotic main series Knuckles is.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Just now, Soni.exe said:

Nope, the only times where you can sort of consider him tricked into doing is from Sonic and crew. In the Boom comic, it was Knuckles that tricked Eggman. 

Now that's just hell freezing over right there (granted, that was under Archie, and I've heard that the writers don't like Knuckles being that stupid for the most anyway, Megadrive aside, but if it looks like a duck...)

...still not a fan of Boom's sitcom-y style, but wow.

 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

1 minute ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

 

...still not a fan of Boom's sitcom-y style, but wow.

 

On it's best days though, Boom has a nice balance of comedy and humor. Heck, even some swell stories and morals to show. Which of course is why CN give it the usual treatment reserved for any show on their network that dares do something of the sort, but that's another story.

[MadmanRB]

4 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Now that's just hell freezing over right there (granted, that was under Archie, and I've heard that the writers don't like Knuckles being that stupid for the most anyway, Megadrive aside, but if it looks like a duck...)

...still not a fan of Boom's sitcom-y style, but wow.

 

Yeah this is why for the most part I like Boom!

I mean yeah i dont like the sitcom aspects as well but it mostly does great characterizations.

The only characters I actually prefer the Sega version to are Shadow (which is funny considering i really hate shadow) and Sonic himself.

All the others are fine, I actually even like Boom! Eggman because at least he didnt start off being the big bad and devolving into a clown (this is why I hate sega Eggman, I am surprised that version knows how to breathe sometimes!)

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

57 minutes ago, Sniper dreams said:

 

Except, this isn't any jewel. Knuckles can sense emeralds like Chaos emeralds and Sol Emeralds, but he can't quite tell them apart. Why are you assuming nonsense? 

 

 

Eh, to be fair, there were shards of the Master Emerald scattered in the Mystic Ruins area, so it's no stretch to assume Knuckles sensed such power, saw the green in Sonic's possession and put together an observational assumption from such.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

6 minutes ago, Jovahexeon the Sapphire said:

On it's best days though, Boom has a nice balance of comedy and humor. Heck, even some swell stories and morals to show. Which of course is why CN give it the usual treatment reserved for any show on their network that dares do something of the sort, but that's another story.

Yeah, I'm just more gravitated towards action and intensity when it comes to Sonic, with comedy serving to emphasize but never overshadow them. Not that Boom is terrible (even if I particularly don't like it), but it just isn't grabbing me.

[MadmanRB]

7 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Yeah, I'm just more gravitated towards action and intensity when it comes to Sonic, with comedy serving to emphasize but never overshadow them. Not that Boom is terrible (even if I particularly don't like it), but it just isn't grabbing me.

Yeah I would hope the series could do that, but Sega mandates and all

[blade57331]

2 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Because he just hung there for a minute instead of doing anything.

Doing something stupid and surviving doesn't mean the thing wasn't stupid to start with.

And Sonic stood like a he was blind when Knuckles punched him, taked his emeralds, and then laugh. And Sonic is suppose to be the fastest...  Limited cutscenes, another words.

You say stupidity, I say being jerk. And considering he make it I don't much stupidity in it.

[Lucid Dream]

36 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

This is honestly getting ridiculous. You're expecting Knuckles to treat the emerald like a faberge egg and not even do so much as breathe in its general direction lest it shatter, in spite of the fact that he could repair it even if it did. You're acting like he has to destroy both sides of a pincer claw to get it to drop something, and even if that made sense that he made the right choice to not even try. You're acting as if the whole of the eggmobile would be electrified when it's clearly just the taser-tentacles that shock him.

What are you talking about? Yea, sure he could repair it, but do you think he'd have the confidence to? The only reason he did it in SA2 was because he knew he'd have no chance, and because he had already repaired it before. 

I don't think that looks like a pincer claw, at all. How about you check your sources? And why would the whole of the eggmobile be electrified? What are you talking about? Just put the taser-tentacles onto the claw and now it's an electric claw. It's really not complex. 

Quote

That's why Sonic had to dodge, right? Regardless, not a smart way to greet a friend.

No no, it's not what I want Sonic to say, it's what I want Knuckles to say. Like "Hey Sonic, is that a big emerald shard, or the green Chaos Emerald?" or "Hey Sonic, the Master Emerald exploded and I'm looking for its pieces, have you seen any?" Not throwing a punch and then demanding whatever emeralds he had with no explanation. Is it any surprise that Sonic wasn't eager to cooperate after that?

Don't you know that the Sonic universe has fighting as a sort of game and possibly even a greeting at times? This has been shown in a bunch of games. Sonic does it often too, especcially to Knuckles. Remember Sonic Battle, Sonic Rivals, etc, etc? 

Also, why would Knuckles trust Sonic? Sonic hid the emerald from him and refused to show it to him. Considering that the Mystic Ruins had so many Emerald Shards, and that Knuckles doesn't know that Sonic is collecting Chaos Emeralds, I wouldn't say it's a stupid guess at all. If Sonic had done what Eggman did, which was put his hands up and show the chaos emerald, than Knuckles wouldn't have gotten so suspicious. 

Quote

Yeah the context of Knuckles not immediately assaulting him and him actually specifying that he was looking for the Master Emerald, because apparently Eggman is more deserving of trust than Sonic in his eyes.

So, are you saying Knuckles should have assaulted Eggman like he did to Sonic, even thouh Eggman put his hands up, showed him he had a chaos emerald and told him it was a misunderstanding? That is what I would call very stupid. 

Eggman figured out Knuckles wanted the M.E. and showed he didn't mean to steal the M.E. Knuckles didn't know that Sonic was collecting Chaos emeralds, saw a green emerald which Sonic immediately hid and refused to hand over. What do you think Knuckles is? a monster? Obviously he's going to not assault the guy showing that he has no malice to the M.E. while attacking the guy who is hiding what looks like the M.E. while refusing to cooperate. 

There's nothing that shows Knuckles trusted Eggman over Sonic at all. Nor is there anything really stupid about this simple misunderstanding. 

[Diogenes]

6 minutes ago, Sniper dreams said:

What are you talking about? Yea, sure he could repair it, but do you think he'd have the confidence to?

Yes? He wasn't worried about that in SA, he just got right to collecting and repairing it.

6 minutes ago, Sniper dreams said:

*snip*

I don't think that looks like a pincer claw, at all. How about you check your sources?

How do you think that grabber works, man? You bust one side, the emerald's not going to stick to the other like it's glued there.

6 minutes ago, Sniper dreams said:

 And why would the whole of the eggmobile be electrified? What are you talking about? Just put the taser-tentacles onto the claw and now it's an electric claw. It's really not complex.

That's making an assumption that Eggman would be safely insulated from it, and you're expecting Knuckles to have calculated all these different possibilities when that's absolutely not his character regardless of whether you're describe him as dumb or not.

6 minutes ago, Sniper dreams said:

Don't you know that the Sonic universe has fighting as a sort of game and possibly even a greeting at times? This has been shown in a bunch of games. Sonic does it often too, especcially to Knuckles. Remember Sonic Battle, Sonic Rivals, etc, etc? 

And that makes it a good idea to start a fight rather than getting to the actual point? Nah.

6 minutes ago, Sniper dreams said:

Also, why would Knuckles trust Sonic? Sonic hid the emerald from him and refused to show it to him.

Maybe because Sonic already saved the ME for him in S3&K and they parted on friendly terms? And Sonic didn't show any kind of hostility towards Knuckles until after Knuckles tried to punch him out? Sonic only refused after he was attacked, there was no reason for Knuckles to think he was up to anything shady unless he actually took Eggman seriously.

6 minutes ago, Sniper dreams said:

Considering that the Mystic Ruins had so many Emerald Shards, and that Knuckles doesn't know that Sonic is collecting Chaos Emeralds, I wouldn't say it's a stupid guess at all. If Sonic had done what Eggman did, which was put his hands up and show the chaos emerald, than Knuckles wouldn't have gotten so suspicious.

Again: Knuckles attacked Sonic as soon as they ran into each other, and never properly explained himself. He confronted Eggman and demanded he give him the ME specifically. These are two radically different approaches and bizarrely, he gives Eggman the more trusting one.

6 minutes ago, Sniper dreams said:

So, are you saying Knuckles should have assaulted Eggman like he did to Sonic, even thouh Eggman put his hands up, showed him he had a chaos emerald and told him it was a misunderstanding? That is what I would call very stupid. 

He would've been more justified in attacking Eggman because Eggman is a known dick who had already stolen the ME once. But the bigger point here is that he had no reason to attack Sonic, and it only made the situation worse for everyone (except Eggman when he was able to nab 2 emeralds).

6 minutes ago, Sniper dreams said:

What do you think Knuckles is?

Stupid.

And you really haven't done anything to prove otherwise.

[Fr0zenanus]

where does Rouge, offering Sonic an kiss, in Colors DS fit in an narrative where she's supposedly "mean"?

[Lucid Dream]

57 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Yes? He wasn't worried about that in SA, he just got right to collecting and repairing it.

Well what do you want him to do? Sulk for 24 hours and then try to collect and repair it? It's not like he wanted it to be destroyed.  

Quote

How do you think that grabber works, man? You bust one side, the emerald's not going to stick to the other like it's glued there.

Why wouldn't it be temporarily stuck to the grabber? I mean, it would make a lot more sense than just making it hold the emerald by compression. 

Quote

That's making an assumption that Eggman would be safely insulated from it,

Dude, the eggmobile is electric. If he wasn't insulated, how'd he ride the thing? The grabber is obviously an add on, and not part of the Eggmobile. 

Quote

And that makes it a good idea to start a fight rather than getting to the actual point? Nah.

Didn't he get to the actual point pretty quick though? He basically said "give me back my emerald or I'll beat you". It's definitely very rough, but it's been stated several times that he's not very good at communicating with others. not knowing/understanding conversational rules does not equal to stupidity. 

Quote

Maybe because Sonic already saved the ME for him in S3&K and they parted on friendly terms? And Sonic didn't show any kind of hostility towards Knuckles until after Knuckles tried to punch him out? Sonic only refused after he was attacked, there was no reason for Knuckles to think he was up to anything shady unless he actually took Eggman seriously.

Sonic didn't really show any hostility, he was quite calm through the entire thing actually. And it's less about taking Eggman seriously, and more about Eggman giving Knuckles the idea that Sonic is collecting M.E. shards and then Knuckles seeing what looked like proof that Eggman was right. It's more stupid to reject proof. Again, a very very normal and human thing to do. It's a fair assumption considering the scenario. 

Quote

He would've been more justified in attacking Eggman because Eggman is a known dick who had already stolen the ME once.

He would've been more justified for beating up a weak man who showed he did not have any interest in the ME? No, seriously? That's antagonistic as hell. 

Quote

But the bigger point here is that he had no reason to attack Sonic, and it only made the situation worse for everyone (except Eggman when he was able to nab 2 emeralds).

Again, people fight in the Sonic world a lot to make a point. It's the kind of place where almost anything is reason enough to fight. Sonic was holding onto something important to Knuckles and Knuckles wanted it back. Sure he was a bit of a jerk, but he doesn't understand communication very well. 

Quote

And you really haven't done anything to prove otherwise.

Except explain how him clinging to the ME in Sonic 3&K wasn't stupid, and that him not attacking Eggman while attacking Sonic is due to a simple misunderstanding. 

Is it really so hard to believe that people who havn't talked to others for most of their life can't converse effectively with others? 

[Nepenthe]

Guys, this is the Rouge thread, not the Knuckles thread. Argue about his flanderization elsewhere. D8

[Aquaslash]

For what it's worth, there was literally nothing at stake in Free Riders except money, and even that turned out to be a fraud. Shadow and Rouge had zero reason to care about anything except the prize, and especially not their partner for who all they knew was random egg pawn #257.

Additionally, pretty much everyone had their characters about wholesale rewritten starting with Free Riders.  Granted, a bunch of a it was pre existing traits taken to their logical conclusion (especially Knuckles) but still.

Count me as one of the few who thinks this was a good thing in the case of Shadow and Rouge.  To have them be all buddy buddy with the rest of the cast kinda muddles the point of their characters, which is to be essentially mercenaries that get good things done in...morally ambiguous ways.  Anti heroes basically

[SBR2]

On ‎11‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 6:58 PM, Fr0zenanus said:

where does Rouge, offering Sonic an kiss, in Colors DS fit in an narrative where she's supposedly "mean"?

I don't know but it totally fits into my narrative that Sonic and Rouge would be cute couple.

[Shadowlax]

14 hours ago, Aquaslash said:

For what it's worth, there was literally nothing at stake in Free Riders except money, and even that turned out to be a fraud. Shadow and Rouge had zero reason to care about anything except the prize, and especially not their partner for who all they knew was random egg pawn #257.

Additionally, pretty much everyone had their characters about wholesale rewritten starting with Free Riders.  Granted, a bunch of a it was pre existing traits taken to their logical conclusion (especially Knuckles) but still.

Count me as one of the few who thinks this was a good thing in the case of Shadow and Rouge.  To have them be all buddy buddy with the rest of the cast kinda muddles the point of their characters, which is to be essentially mercenaries that get good things done in...morally ambiguous ways.  Anti heroes basically

They don't need to be buddy buddy. But they were kind of just purposfully antagonistic. Along with that They are mercenaries. I mean technically shadow might be if you squint, and maybe if you interpret how the gun soldiers feel about shadow in the comics, but they are more like secret agents. Shadow specifically joined gun to help the world, so no only is it weird to see shadow indulge in this, its even weirder. But even more so for the both of them, maybe I just really like their comic book counter parts, you said it yourself, they are only in it for the prize. They wouldn't really fight with anyone, they really wouldn't even want to be bothered with it besides winning or loosing. Heck rouge would probably just steal the prize. Their characters and their being there really didn't make sense, and I get a feeling the reason their characters were so bad was because no one knew how to justify that.