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The General American Politics Thread

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"Bernie's a racist in disguise who doesn't have a comprehensive platform on racial issues!" said the BLM woman at the last rally (paraphrased).

 

"Oh really? Try this!" Said Bernie, as he poofed a comprehensive package into existence. And it was good.

 

https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/

 

Highlights:

 

Police:

-Demilitarization

-Required (and funding for) body and dashcams for all police

-Programs to make police forces and community members interact more to bridge the gap

-Affirmative action to make police departments more racially representative

-Higher standards on the use of lethal force

 

Voting:

-Curbing voter ID laws

-Allowing early voting to help those unable to show up on Election Day

-Eliminating the ability to disenfranchise convicts

-Automatic registration to vote upon turning 18

-Funding for ballot boxes to increase turnout

 

Incarceration:

-Soften the War on Drugs; use medical treatment, not prison time, to help those with substance abuse problems

-Abolish for-profit prisons

-Free nonviolent offenders; invest in programs to help ex-convicts rebuild their lives to prevent turning to crime

-No more mandatory minimums

 

Economic Opportunity:

-Free university tuition

-Elimination of criminal records as a reason to avoid hiring someone

-Access to childcare for all working families

 

That slight against businesses aside, I can say I really like this guy overall.

 

He more than makes up for it with his proposals for much higher wages, given that will probably increase my sales dramatically. :P

Edited by Ty the Tasmanian Ogilvie

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"Bernie's a racist in disguise who doesn't have a comprehensive platform on racial issues!" said the BLM woman at the last rally (paraphrased).

That woman needs a serious punch to the jaw. It should be illegal to be that stupid.

 

Its good that Bernie has kept cool over that nonsense, but that shouldn't even have been necessary if that woman paid any attention to his platform.

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonic

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http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/08/politics/bernie-sanders-black-lives-matter-protesters/

 

She just represents the sentiment of the BLM Seattle chapter, which said, and I quote, "the problem with Sanders, and with white Seattle progressives in general, is that they are utterly and totally useless (when not outright harmful) in terms of the fight for Black lives."

 

I think it's obvious these chapters have very different approaches. While the Seattle chapter's idea of reaching the general public is disrupting politicians, calling people who disapprove racists (what could possibly go wrong with alienating the majority with insults, true or not?), and otherwise making asses of themselves, the more intelligent BLM members who run the social media and the like are including police brutality against ALL people, not just blacks, in their message.

 

What I'm seeing is the usual divide between those wanting racial justice: those who are pragmatic and work to include whites in the benefits of the program, and those who are idealistic and emphasize blacks (or another minority) to a point the general public lose interest.

 

I mean, it sucks you can't address problems facing you without losing people's attention, but people as a whole are pretty self-interested. How many Americans give up everything they don't need to ensure there's nobody homeless or starving? Not a lot.

 

One can't practically rely on others' empathy for one's benefit. You need to make your cause relevant to their interests. I mean, it's no surprise that a lot of politicians suddenly switch sides on gay marriage when one of their relatives comes out; it's suddenly no longer palatable for them as a person to deny their relative the right to be happy.

 

Heck, that's a key reason that, as much as I don't usually like affirmative action, I'm fully behind it for police forces. I don't think of police as necessarily being raging racists, so much as a lot of them operate on misconceptions about minorities and their behavior. Working with those minorities day in and day out would probably change those perceptions.

Edited by Ty the Tasmanian Ogilvie

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And now, a sudden change of focus, this time on the invisible minority in this country. A report straight from Alabama, the beacon of religious and racial tolerance.

 

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/178bdd31603d434a9a74e7a2af1e4489/native-americans-lose-fight-long-hair-ala-prisons

 

After a lengthy legal battle, the US 11th Circuit of Appeals upheld Alabama’s decision to ban long hair in prisons for Native Americans who state that long hair is a key part of their religious traditions. Many of the tribes in the region consider long hair a manifestation of the soul and a connection with the Earth, and some state it is only allowed to be cut in times of mourning. Those defending the policy cite hygiene and smuggling as reasons for cutting, though prisons across the country have allowed people to keep long hair for religious reasons without issue.

 

Given the fact the Indian incarceration rate is 38% higher than the national average and there’s a connection between cultural norms and inmate suicide, this issue is especially relevant to many Indian people.

 

For my personal input on the subject, this is rather concerning. You all likely remember how a single pro-gay marriage case was followed by one court after another toppling gay marriage bans in their jurisdiction. The reason this happened is for the most part, judges honor each other’s rulings in a common law system like ours; precedent is very often used to decide a lot of cases. That’s why this ruling is worrying: it may just be Alabama now, but it’s possible a ruling like this could be made by other courts owing to the precedent.

 

In general, we allow free religious practice where it doesn’t create some sort of risk to public safety. The statistics show that long hair – especially for those who claim religious purposes for having it – doesn’t have much of an effect on safety or hygiene, despite the concerns. This argument reminds me rather of how pro-Drug War advocates invoke widespread addiction if drug policy was softened, when statistics from other countries say otherwise. This appeal to safety is a fearmongering argument with no basis in reality.

 

But hey, Alabama. They voted 40% against interracial marriage in 2000. And I'm sure that while they whine about Christian bakers being forced to bake gay couple's cakes, they're silent on this issue. White supremacy at its finest.

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Native Americans are consistently getting shit on in this country, even though most people today probably think that stuff ended at the Siege of Wounded Knee in the 1970s. All because of that, even though Native Americans are being targeted and killed at a higher rate than African American folks, and despite certain American politicians continuing to divvy up and sell off Native lands through corrupt dealings with big business, the #NativeLivesMatter movement has yet to go mainstream. Not to shit on BLM, but these people need every bit as much help, if not more.

Has Mr. Sanders been questioned on what a presidency under him would mean to the extant Native tribes? I'd like to hope that he would do their cause a world of good, visiting several reservations and bringing their plight to the attention of all. Cue a decidedly 19th century Republican response and a lot of bile poured out on Twitter, Fox and so on, I'm sure.

Other BLM chapters really need to call this one out on its nonsenses. They'll likely do more harm than good if they don't, because you know how the opposition will spin this shit.

IIRC, BLM representatives have apologized to Mr. Sanders, and the movement is distancing itself from the idiots who disrupted his rally.

Edited by Patticus

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It looks like he for the most part hasn't mentioned them specifically, which probably isn't helped by their small numbers.

 

But, the many programs he proposes would probably help them out just like the other groups. While the reservations and their unique status do need consideration, by and large his support for more services and reduced police invasiveness would benefit them greatly.

 

Given Obama's recent support for internet access for the Choctaws, though, I imagine it's only a matter of time before Indian issues become more mainstream.

Edited by Ty the Tasmanian Ogilvie

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As Hillary Clinton's e-mail fiasco goes on, is nobody asking why she had a private e-mail server to begin with? See, I'd say it's most likely because she didn't do her due diligence when she first became Secretary of State, and simply asked, "Well, how did my predecessor do things?" That was the easy thing to do, and it had never proven problematic previously.

I think it's doubtful indeed that Clinton thought anything of it at the time, but if we're going to string her up, why don't we string her predecessors up too?.

Edited by Patticus

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Hillary Clinton not doing her due diligence when it comes to a powerful political office? Hillary Clinton simply doing what a member of the Bush Administration had done because it was easier? Hillary Clinton not being briefed on the importance and procedures of classified material? Those are some pretty big initial hurdles to jump over.

Even assuming Hilary or someone in her office ended up using private facilities to conduct official SecState business since that had been done by her predecessors (as opposed to the opposite extreme insinuations that she essentially just did what she wanted like she has done ever since Bill left office), Rice was always perceived as nothing more than an affirmative action buffer between the Bush Administration and public scrutiny; Powell is a bona-fide highly decorated war hero with two decades of experience with classified material before Bush was even elected, and who left public office with an even higher critical approval than he had when he became SecState in the first place; Albright was a huge hardass who lived and breathed proper policy to the extent of making what were probably diplomatic mistakes because things weren't done properly; and Christopher is dead. The only one who people would want blood over would be Rice because she's the only one who might have done something similar, and then questions would simply be raised why the person whose election platform so far is largely derived from how much experience she has in politics was willing to to just do whatever Bush's staff had been doing when they were in full "everyone not in the Bush Administration can go fuck themselves" mode.

 

 

The common threads between all of them is also that they aren't running for President after a stint as SecState with skeletons of increasing seriousness that keep falling out of the closet. Benghazi was a farce, but Benghazi is what lead people to realize that she even had the server in the first place. The email thing in particular is going to hound her all the way through November, because the way her team originally handled it made her look like she was covering things up even if it ultimately turns out that she wasn't; plus who knows what else is going to be uncovered?

 

 

 

And, on a more specific note:

As Hillary Clinton's e-mail fiasco goes on, is nobody asking why she had a private e-mail server to begin with?

Because it was purchased as part of her 2008 Presidential bid, and then she simply kept it for personal use since then.

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http://news.yahoo.com/reactions-to-u-s--flag-raising-in-havana-signal-progress--long-road-ahead-231221209.html#

 

Or in which those whose families backed a dictator and were repressed because of it whine that we're not actively trying to hurt another dictator anymore.

 

Sanctions do not foster democracy. Economic development does. It's hard to economically develop when you're strangled for markets.

 

Opening 1/4 of the global economy - the US economy - to Cuba will probably do more in five years than this embargo did in fifty-five.

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https://www.yahoo.com/politics/donald-trump-says-14th-amendment-is-127077752761.html

Good lord.

 

I knew he wasn't exactly bright but there's no way he's not trolling at this point.

 

How can a Constitutional amendment be unconstitutional? Does he ignore the fact there's a formal amendment process as part of the original Constitution, which makes all amendments that pass under it just as valid as the first ten?

 

I know in one Central American country their Supreme Court has the power to overturn Constitutional amendments. But that's not how America runs. The Constitution is the real supreme law of our land, not the Court, and if there's a contradiction, the Constitution wins. The 14th amendment exists in the first place to overrule the Supreme Court decision in Dred Scott.

 

"It wouldn't hold up in Court." Something tells me paying legions of lawyers to do his legal tasks for him has left him incredibly stupid on how law works.

 

Just... wow.

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http://news.yahoo.com/-nashville-hotel-cancels-reservations-for-hate-group-ccc--dylann-roof-s-inspiration-154205634.html

 

A Nashville hotel has cancelled all the reservations the Conservative Citizens' Council - the modern incarnation of the anti-desegregation White Citizens' Councils - after learning about their white supremacist ideology. It's clear the church shooting is making waves on issues of racial perception.

 

Now, how about an aside on something else.

 

This article points out how the CCC depicts all black-on-white crime as racist in motivation, while the Southern Poverty Law Center states only a small percent is. I pose the question: how do they know this? Are they mind readers?

 

I don't like the double standard that's gradually been established in our culture. There's no doubt the CCC is being unreasonable in its assertion, but I imagine the SPLC probably wouldn't be downplaying racism in white-on-black violence. To be frank, it reminds me of those morons on Tumblr who say only white people can be racist.

 

You know what is very real? Vengeance. There's a reason Muhammad had to whip the Arab tribes into shape and tell them to stop killing each other. It stands to reason that if there's a lot of white-on-black racism, there will be a ton of black-on-white racism in turn. I've heard no shortage of stories from black friends of relatives warning them against hanging out with, dating, etc. whites. That sounds awfully similar to how some of my white relatives have told us growing up to avoid hanging out with, dating, etc. blacks.

 

I don't know. That just struck a nerve with me. I understand that white racism holds the most power due to politics and economics, but I get annoyed very easy when non-white communities are depicted as having a racial kumbayah mentality. I've studied more than enough history and sociology to know that's a load. White and black supremacists ironically were close allies in the early 1900s, because they were both working to establish blood purity laws. The situation of whites in many post-colonial African societies shows just how deep vengeance runs. Living under racism doesn't mean you're going to be non-racist; in fact, I'd wager you're more likely to be racist in turn, because it easier to seek revenge than forgive.

Edited by Ty the Tasmanian Ogilvie

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http://www.rawstory.com/2015/08/white-power-trumps-alabama-pep-rally-brings-out-folks-who-want-to-shoot-illegals-at-the-border/#.Vdihe8vrArA.facebook

 

God help us all. Trump is appealing to the inner stupidity of a good deal of Americans, and this is actually working.

 

There are no shortage of people calling for bounties on illegal aliens. When confronted on this, they say they were "just kidding." I'm sure they were.

 

No surprise, though. Alabama is one of the cesspit states.

 

Gotta love white people harping on about illegal aliens when the bulk of the country was seized through war and unfair treaties.

Edited by Ty the Tasmanian Ogilvie

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http://www.rawstory.com/2015/08/white-power-trumps-alabama-pep-rally-brings-out-folks-who-want-to-shoot-illegals-at-the-border/#.Vdihe8vrArA.facebook

God help us all. Trump is appealing to the inner stupidity of a good deal of Americans, and this is actually working.

There are no shortage of people calling for bounties on illegal aliens. When confronted on this, they say they were "just kidding." I'm sure they were.

No surprise, though. Alabama is one of the cesspit states.

Gotta love white people harping on about illegal aliens when the bulk of the country was seized through war and unfair treaties.

 


Yeah, I saw that. Trump is making people feel like their racial prejudices and violent tendencies are perfectly okay, drawing a thoroughly vile niche of society to his side in the process.

Ultimately, it may be these kinds of people who will alienate Trump to the electorate at large in numbers sufficient enough to knock him out of the race.

It's simultaneously amusing and scary that the other contenders have yet to see him off, actually. The man would be a terrible president. The funny aspect is wearing off as time goes on and he remains an active player, too, so soon it'll just be scary. :(

Edited by Patticus

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There's not terribly much that other candidates can probably do at the moment. After what happened with that chick a month ago where she badmouthed him and he publicly released her personal contact details in response, they are probably trying to make sure that they are more scandal-proof than even is normal for a presidential candidate.

 

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It's stuff like this that keep my paranoia of the Fascist States of White America alive in spite of the progress made in many areas. After all, if people like this exist despite history constantly telling us how stupid this shit is, then what's stopping it from eventually happening here under everyone's noses?

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I must say the GOP's in quite the pickle, though.

 

If they nominate Trump, they probably alienate a lot of people in the general election.

 

If they don't nominate Trump, he may very well go Perot on their asses and eat up a lot of the conservative vote.

 

Barring a really bad Democratic candidate, he might very well end up costing the GOP the election.

 

I think a savvy move would be to try and see if he'd be open to Vice President or some sort of Cabinet position where he could use his business talents (the guy's an idiot on most issues but I doubt turning millions into billions was pure luck). That way they could secure his support for a unified party ticket while avoiding making him the dominant persona in it. This of course would require his ego not be gigantic enough to think he's fit to tackle every single issue. I have no doubt he could very well possibly make the government more effective in some department or another, but he's absolutely not the right fit for the Presidency, which is about a lot more than managing the government.

 

Coming soon... Secretary of State Trump's trip to Mexico!

Edited by Ty the Tasmanian Ogilvie

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I really don't think he'd be open to the VP position, let alone a cabinet role. If that man doesn't get the nomination next year, he's going to go third party - at least, assuming his state of mind remains the same. Given how hectic and mad and over the top next year's going to get, I can't say I think he'll become reflective and any more accepting of the second or third in command role than now. He's a boss, and he's always going to be a boss, so I'd be pretty shocked if he turns around and starts calling another person his boss.

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In other news, the house of cards that is China's economy (managed by a police state that clearly has no idea what its doing) is cracking, causing a ripple effect across the world's stock markets, especially in Wall Street, the sort that hasn't been since since the recession. Hoo, boy.

And, of course, Trump is totally confident he can fix this shit. Hah.

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China's economy couldn't carry on growing at its previous high rates without rewriting the laws of economics, so this slowdown was inevitable.

China needs to restructure its economy anyway, or it stands to face down terrible problems in years to come. If nothing else, the fact that it devalued its own currency and is experiencing these problems now shows how serious the country is about economic rewiring.

There's also Japan to factor in - China's arch nemesis faces similar, albeit far less serious economic problems to China. Japan cannot in China's view be allowed to race ahead economically, while China flounders in an economic quagmire. These changes and disruptions are an important part of getting rid of worse issues later on.

Edited by Patticus

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I'm hoping this will cripple their massive counterfeit goods market if nothing else. Those douchebags constantly get in the way of legitimate merchants like myself, so I'd love to see them forced out of business.

 

It will be interesting to see the results of this will be. I'm crossing my fingers it leads to gradual further opening of the Chinese economy. The Party builds its power on perpetual growth, and it doesn't take a genius to see how bad this might be.
 

The Chinese believe in history as a series of cycles rather than point A to point B, though.

 

Maybe the Party will go the way of every other dynasty here soon.

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The Party's reliance on high growth to smooth over the cracks in the Chinese facade is going to be tested beyond breaking point, the longer this downturn lasts. Expect to see reports of civil unrest eventually.

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