The General American Politics Thread

[Meta77]

14 hours ago, Dizcrybe said:

I'll throw in a bit of my own honesty and say that I do not understand how certain  people from minority group (including the LGBT community in this) can like Donald Trump. Like, do you realize the feeling's not mutual? Are you even listening to what he's saying? Or do you just not have any self-respect at all?

Open your eyes, y'all, the man does not like you; wake up. I mean, it's one thing to have opinions, but to admire a man who has openly expressed disdain for your people? Don't y'all have principles?

For me I have not really seen one thing trump has said against blacks. I may be missing it but eh most i can think of he may have said the n word here or there but that honestly does not bother me in the least lol

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

27 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

Repealing Obamacare and replacing it with block programs and health savings accounts would immediately drop 21 million people from their insurance plans and add another $200-ish billion to the deficit. This would inevitably force all of these people to have to buy insurance, potentially putting a load on emergency rooms in the meantime (more money for taxpayers to shoulder), of which only 5% of people would be able to reasonably do so. The only thing potentially saving this plan would be the federal block grants- where the government gives the states money to use for healthcare- but considering Trump doesn't have numbers per state no one knows what in the world that would even do, ranging from saving absolutely no money whatsoever to somehow $850 billion, which would cover the initial cost but still does absolutely nothing to address the 21 million people with no plan anymore, meaning the net benefit of the absolute best negotiations possible is still that 21 million people are shit out of luck. But this is regardless of the fact that you want as many people as possible on health insurance because the tax revenue dilutes the cost of any one individual, which is why smarter countries got with the program on implementing a universal healthcare program of some sort. If ten people, for example, donate $2 towards a $20 pizza, you as an individual get access to the whole for much cheaper than if you were to have to shoulder seven other people's burden and and thus have to donate $6.67 (and the people who didn't pay would still get to eat pizza because you can't let people starve if they say they're hungry.) That is why insurance is currently expensive. That, and just general inefficiency, marketing, and bad negotiation with healthcare providers.

The paring down of the income tax code to four brackets still allows the rich to keep a much bigger chunk of change in relation to poorer people. Said closures would also decentivize charity giving since it couldn't be deducted anymore, which tends to be the thing conservatives say is all we need to maintain a social safety net, and incentivize tax inversion. All in all, tax cuts don't work in isolation unless you're going to do massive spending cuts to keep the budget at bay in relation to it (think about what happens when you personally spend money in your account you don't have), and considering Trump has no official positions about social welfare, infrastructure, energy, etc. on his platform, one can only assume he's not really touching that, thus this thing is just a way to get him and his buddies some nice tax breaks while the middle and poor class once again have to shoulder the tax burden for these programs or either see them removed entirely, either of which would be syooper dumb for us to do.

I guess my problem is that when me and my family moved here we had to get health insurance which was bad in itself because he had no money. We eventually had it but still. It is fairly easy for immigrants (well sometimes I argue that it is easier for undocumented immigrants to get healthcare than it is for people who live here or even insurance since their's is...free. Please correct me if I am wrong). I do understand why people need health insurance and I agree to an extent, however I do think people need to be able to afford it. Also I am iffy about blocking grant-medicare. 

I do want to touch on the idea of bringing less expensive and better medicines from overseas is a big plus for me. Especially since the ones that we have are expensive and not as good. Then again my healthcare related knowledge is very slim.

To be honest, the tax brackets didn't mention about the top 1% which they were going to be taxed greatly and they wouldn't have access to loopholes. thus, they would be paying for the majority of it. I think the biggest thing here is is family size and if you are married or not. (and also getting rid of the marriage penalty). Of course in order to do the tax breaks they cannot spend as much which will be.....interesting.

[WakanoBaka]

3 hours ago, Nepenthe said:

You have displayed absolutely no reasonable political knowledge in this thread or others nor provided any evidence to back up your claims. You also have not displayed any reasonable evidence that you have actually read any of the posts here which reference if not outright link to studies and articles for actual information. All you have fallen back on are emotional appeals and anti-intellectual equivocation fallacies where non-voters and fence sitters get on a high horse and praise themselves for slamming both political parties as meaningfully equivalent, proving they can't be assed to simply go to the candidates' websites and directly contrast policy proposals like an actual politically-responsible citizen would. And yet you're telling me to read.

You forget, I said all of them are shit. No matter who you vote for, their gonna be shit.  It's not me sitting on a high horse, I'm not better than you or anything, that is just your thoughts subjected.
And no matter how you look at it. They all weigh each other out...with Sanders standing IMO a lil better than the rest....but that guy gets like 0 coverage. I literally haven't heard about him since what? A Week ago. Oh but Trump turning up the radar. Hilary also. Then there is Cruz...w-we don't....anybody remember that guy?

My arguments aren't "emotional appeals" and/or "anti-intellectual" I don't hate a man I see no reason to. Unless you are implying anyone who isn't against Trump is "anti-intellectual"  somehow. Then that's just fucking terrific.

I got some bleach over here, lemme drink some real quick.

To comically quote Hillary, "What difference does it make?"

http://www.ontheissues.org/donald_trump.htm

http://www.ontheissues.org/Hillary_Clinton.htm

http://www.ontheissues.org/Bernie_Sanders.htm

More links on there btw

Always Loved Trump and Hilary's stance on abortion.

Now you could just say "Everyone is gonna lie, almost everything is bias. Only way to know anything is by walking up and asking them." But then that would mean all you would have to do to avoid that is don't bother.

 

53 minutes ago, Raccoonatic Ogilvie said:

There's a sizable moderate swing base that the Parties try to capture every election. Not everyone is a mindless drone who chose their Party and never again questioned it (just look at what's going on with Trump and Sanders and you can see that there's a LOT of independent thinking within the Parties).

You. Would. Be. Surprised.

Let's face it. They say your vote matters. They say the people have a say in who gets elected President. Nah bub. The Electoral College votes for the President of the United States. Who's the EC? Why it's people chosen by congress to cast an electoral vote, and you need 270 electoral votes to win the presidency. How do you become an elector? Kiss enough ass to a local congressperson and maybe they'll pick you. Donating lots of money to your congressperson's campaign funds certainly helps. Think about it, Gore should have won in 2000 because he had more popular votes. Make the popular vote matter. In fact, let's just get rid of congress since they're too incompetent to do anything. That or start it over.

59 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

For me I have not really seen one thing trump has said against blacks. I may be missing it but eh most i can think of he may have said the n word here or there but that honestly does not bother me in the least lol

"Well-educated blacks have advantage over whites" - Trump, 2015.

 

[Dizcrybe]

54 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

For me I have not really seen one thing trump has said against blacks. I may be missing it but eh most i can think of he may have said the n word here or there but that honestly does not bother me in the least lol

Given his thoughts on Muslims and Mexicans, I think I can safely assume he's not very fond of black people either.

David Duke, a former Klan leader, gave his support to Donald Trump, and Don seemed to be perfectly fine with that. I don't know about y'all, but that doesn't inspire a whole lot of confidence that I, as a black man, would be perfectly safe under a Trump presidency.

And you say the possibility that Trump may have said the N word doesn't bother you? Good for you. Have a drink. The fact remains, though, that you're in the minority here (no pun intended). One person in a minority group going "well I'm okay with it" has never really been a good argument and it never will be.

[Meta77]

15 minutes ago, Dizcrybe said:

Given his thoughts on Muslims and Mexicans, I think I can safely assume he's not very fond of black people either.

David Duke, a former Klan leader, gave his support to Donald Trump, and Don seemed to be perfectly fine with that. I don't know about y'all, but that doesn't inspire a whole lot of confidence that I, as a black man, would be perfectly safe under a Trump presidency.

And you say the possibility that Trump may have said the N word doesn't bother you? Good for you. Have a drink. The fact remains, though, that you're in the minority here (no pun intended). One person in a minority group going "well I'm okay with it" has never really been a good argument and it never will be.

I have had the klan march in my town back in my high school years. Long as they are not still hanging people in trees they do not bother me.

[Dizcrybe]

1 minute ago, Meta77 said:

I have had the klan march in my town back in my high school years. Long as they are not still hanging people in trees they do not bother me.

 

17 minutes ago, Dizcrybe said:

One person in a minority group going "well I'm okay with it" has never really been a good argument and it never will be.

 

[Nepenthe]

11 minutes ago, WakanoBaka said:

You forget, I said all of them are shit. No matter who you vote for, their gonna be shit.  It's not me sitting on a high horse, I'm not better than you or anything, that is just your thoughts subjected.

"Everyone is awful!!!" is still an intellectually lazy response borne from not even committing one's self to a ten-second Google search.

11 minutes ago, WakanoBaka said:

And no matter how you look at it. They all weigh each other out...

This literally means nothing.

11 minutes ago, WakanoBaka said:

with Sanders standing IMO a lil better than the rest....but that guy gets like 0 coverage. I literally haven't heard about him since what? A Week ago.

He conceded that she was the presumptive nominee a week and a half ago. Do you expect to hear about Carson or Fiorina anymore?

11 minutes ago, WakanoBaka said:

My arguments aren't "emotional appeals" and/or "anti-intellectual" I don't hate a man I see no reason to.

None of your arguments that every politician is the same are grounded in any actual verifiable evidence. Therefore, they can only come from an emotional or an irrational place.

11 minutes ago, WakanoBaka said:

Unless you are implying anyone who isn't against Trump is "anti-intellectual"  somehow. Then that's just fucking terrific.

Not true. If you're white and rich, Trump will undoubtedly be a boon for you.

11 minutes ago, WakanoBaka said:

I got some bleach over here, lemme drink some real quick.

Get over yourself.

11 minutes ago, WakanoBaka said:

To comically quote Hillary, "What difference does it make?"

http://www.ontheissues.org/donald_trump.htm

http://www.ontheissues.org/Hillary_Clinton.htm

http://www.ontheissues.org/Bernie_Sanders.htm

More links on there btw

It's funny; Clinton and Trump's stances on abortion, the economy, civil rights, education, etc. are different either by stance or focus. What were you trying to prove exactly?

11 minutes ago, WakanoBaka said:

Now you could just say "Everyone is gonna lie, almost everything is bias. Only way to know anything is by walking up and asking them." But then that would mean all you would have to do to avoid that is don't bother.

Or we just vote for the person who is the least likely to have KKK sympathies or talk about banning a religion. This is the easiest election ever and y'all are playing like we have a hard choice here.

[Meta77]

20 minutes ago, Dizcrybe said:

 

 

Lol i know plenty in my MG that like and are voting for him. Just cause the ones making the most "noise" about liking him does not sum up a group. Regardless should be fun time this novemeber. Ill have my popcorn at the ready.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

5 hours ago, WakanoBaka said:

And THAT is the problem.

N offense, but...

Why haven't you look for facts yourself?

How can you say you are voting or whatever when you are here asking for facts?

Lol, that's cute. Dodge the question and shift the burden of proof. How about you answer the question and give me the facts like I asked instead of this "no U" nonsense you've been giving? Because I'm not the one supporting Trump here.

[WakanoBaka]

10 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

"Everyone is awful!!!" is still an intellectually lazy response borne from not even committing one's self to a ten-second Google search.

Or the resolve of someone who honestly thinks it so.

 

11 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

This literally means nothing.

Can be a matter  of opinion actually.

 

12 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

None of your arguments that every politician is the same are grounded in any actual verifiable evidence. Therefore, they can only come from an emotional or an irrational place.

Same? Last I check, I was just saying they were all shit. If I said "same" I most likely was referring to how I doubt anyone will fix the major problems of this country.

 

13 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

Not true. If you're white and rich, Trump will undoubtedly be a boon for you.

I ain't none of those. But you talk like you've know the guy your entire life.

 

13 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

Get over yourself.

Wouldn't be suicidal if I did.

 

14 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

It's funny; Clinton and Trump's stances on abortion, the economy, civil rights, education, etc. are different either by stance or focus. What were you trying to prove exactly?

Really, their stance on Abortion, for the most parts, seem to be the same basis IMO. Could just be it lining up with my stance. But my point was again. Not showing that they are similar, it's that they weigh each other out.

 

20 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

Or we just vote for the person who is the least likely to have KKK sympathies or talk about banning a religion. This is the easiest election ever and y'all are playing like we have a hard choice here.

As a black religious man. Why do I feel less threaten by a man honest that he's racist and doesn't like religion, compared to a closet racist and anti-religious fellow... Rhetorical question, you know why, cause I like to know who my enemies are, and if Trump was banning religion and rooting the KKK, I'd like to know it going in than when he's already in office. All I see in Trump is a more redneck Mitt Romney.

Nice job trying to play on the fact I'm religious and black. I gotta give you props on the...what did you call it? Oh yes "emotional appeals" . Good job, had me damn near thinking about it, BUT then I remembered, WAIT, I don't even vote. If the country goes to shit, It ain't me on the burner, I only defended Trump as a person, not much his ideals.

Cause I see a lot of people on the web calling Trump supports "hillbillys", "retards", "anti-someshitoranother" they just call Trump a terrible person in general. You'd swear they read the erotic novel about the guy. I mean, a man's views doesn't exactly reflect his character. By that logic, EVERY white person from slavery times were just completely inhuman. They could help a slave off the ground, fuck knows what, they owned one, they is a guilty. I mean like, wtf, no that's not true....

Spoiler

 

Just because a man owned a slave in times where it was as hot as skinny jeans, doesn't mean he's exactly a bad person. Yeah, the owning slaves part makes you a piece of crap. But that was just it.

Want a more clearer example. The Bible says you guilty of one, you guilty of all so basically you aren't any better and all that wise shit. NOW although I follow that wholely, I know it doesn't mean...

You steal a cookie?

Jimmy go take your brother out and stone that fucker right now. Case he just committed murder, rape, and arson.

 

I just went a lil off topic there, sorry for that, so I'll hide it, but read it if you wish. It really isn't necessary tho.

22 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

He conceded that she was the presumptive nominee a week and a half ago. Do you expect to hear about Carson or Fiorina anymore?

You can say I have somewhat of a Political crush on Ms.Fiorina. Tho by the fact I haven't heard from her since when, I presume she's out. Good fucking creeps that woman was perfect for the seat.

 

1 minute ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Lol way to dodge the question to shift the burden of proof. How about you answer the question and give me the facts like I asked? Because I'm not the one supporting Trump here.

I support Trump!? Whoa! Hey guys! BIG NEWS, I APPARENTLY SUPPORT TRUMP BECAUSE I CAN'T SEE ANY REAL REASON TO HATE HIM~!

I'm gonna take a shot of bleach to that!

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

2 hours ago, WakanoBaka said:

 

Cause I see a lot of people on the web calling Trump supports "hillbillys", "retards", "anti-someshitoranother" they just call Trump a terrible person in general.

Ever consider that Trump's just actually done and spoken enough crap to warrant him his reputation? 

I know I certainly didn't imagine his Muslim remarks and other ideas that this country would be fine without. 

[KHCast]

Considering Trumps attitude and responses towards tragedies and political disasters, and him saying dumb shit towards minorities like wanting to reverse the same sex marriage law, not knowing why people dislike trump and his "honesty", is like plugging your ears and ignoring the obvious. You don't need to like someone to be oversympathetic of them to the point of defending them despite the glaring problems.

[Blue Swallow]

With Clinton and Trump having the highest unfavorable ratings for major party presidential candidates in American history, I think this is going to be a big year for third parties.

I don't know if the republicans dissatisfied with Trump will vote for Gary Johnson, or just not vote (I think more moderate ones might.), but independents are the largest voting block in the country, and he'll have some of them. And I think Jill Stein will get a lot of Bernie supporters, and plenty of independents.

 

I believe they're both going to get a lot of Latino & Hispanic support, and a lot of Arab & Muslim support, since, given Trump's words and Hillary's history, they won't be good to them. I would think us lgbt+ people would be more likely to vote third party, but a lot of us seem to have forgiven Hillary, or just don't know her history, and I can't imagine too many queer republicans voting for Trump with Pence on the ticket, though I could be wrong. 

[Zaysho]

1 hour ago, WakanoBaka said:

...I only defended Trump as a person, not much his ideals.

You feeling Trump might be a stand up guy in a thread where people are discussing his policy, his qualifications, or the things he's said on public record that actually piss people off is irrelevant and trying to get the moral high ground on people with an argument like this:

On 7/17/2016 at 1:58 AM, WakanoBaka said:

They seem to be in fear of the man's honesty. Trump is an honest man true to how he feels. You can't deny that, whether what he feels is wrong or right. It doesn't even seem like people hate him for his views, they seem to hate him cause he reminds people that they are still people, and that everybody is a lil bit of a dick and a lil bit racist.

doesn't actually fly. You like Trump as a person? Good for you. This doesn't actually have anything to do with a thread on politics, though.

 

Oh! And since I'm here:

2 hours ago, WakanoBaka said:

I'm gonna take a shot of bleach to that!

Yeah, no. We have a strict policy about suicide, which we take seriously, and these jokes aren't cute. Given your flippant attitude in this thread, and in the past on this board, I don't feel too bad about handing you a strike. If you have a problem with that, talk to Chris.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

2 hours ago, WakanoBaka said:

I support Trump!? Whoa! Hey guys! BIG NEWS, I APPARENTLY SUPPORT TRUMP BECAUSE I CAN'T SEE ANY REAL REASON TO HATE HIM~!

I'm gonna take a shot of bleach to that!

Not sure how anyone can make such a massive strawman like that. Pretty sure my exact words were "I'm [Conquering Storm's Servant/CSS] not the one supporting Trump here," not you. I honestly couldn't care less who you were supporting.

EDIT: Oh shit...I made this post on my phone, so I didn't see your post Zaysho. my bad.

[Tani Coyote]

 

4 hours ago, Blue Swallow said:

I believe they're both going to get a lot of Latino & Hispanic support, and a lot of Arab & Muslim support, since, given Trump's words and Hillary's history, they won't be good to them. I would think us lgbt+ people would be more likely to vote third party, but a lot of us seem to have forgiven Hillary, or just don't know her history, and I can't imagine too many queer republicans voting for Trump with Pence on the ticket, though I could be wrong. 

I really hope not.

In a First Past the Post system, voting third party is a huge gamble. While it's certainly possible to produce a winner with enough turnout (Ross Perot might just have been the top candidate against Bush and Clinton had the 40% of voters who preferred him chose him), it's still a huge risk of giving the election to the major party you dislike. Plus, if enough people go third party and no candidate wins the majority of electoral votes, that means the House gets to pick the President, so the election still ends up in GOP hands. Given the House GOP is fairly crazy compared to the Senate GOP, chances are high we'd still end up with Trump.

Now that Clinton's adopted a good chunk of the Sanders platform, I think it's a lot easier to vote for her. You all remember how indifferent I became after the superdelegates manipulating the vote bullshit her camp pulled. I refused to go along with a nominee who got where they are in such a manner.

But now that the Democratic Platform has a lot of Sanders' ideas on it, it'd be extremely bizarre for me to not back Clinton. Sanders is the one who got me really interested in this election, and the chance to pass some of his proposals via a Clinton Presidency by far beats out not having any of them at all under Trump.

If anything, I'd prefer this election provides impetus for preferential voting like Instant Runoff. That way, we don't HAVE to go with the Party nominee to realistically be able to win.

[Dizcrybe]

7 hours ago, WakanoBaka said:

As a black religious man. Why do I feel less threaten by a man honest that he's racist and doesn't like religion, compared to a closet racist and anti-religious fellow... Rhetorical question, you know why, cause I like to know who my enemies are, and if Trump was banning religion and rooting the KKK, I'd like to know it going in than when he's already in office. All I see in Trump is a more redneck Mitt Romney.

First of all, I'm almost certain she's referring to Muslims, who he has unabashedly advocating the deportation of. So unless you yourself are Muslim, it's not really your problem.

Second, let me get this straight: you know he's racist and probably okay with the KKK, yet you still sit here and go "you know what, I don't think Trump is that bad"? Come on, man, think. Why would you prefer someone you know is racist over someone you merely have suspicions about? What you like you know your enemies? But they're your enemies! You shouldn't prefer either of them to be running the country, not the open racist nor the closet racist, because at the end of the day, they're both still bloody racist. Just because you know that about one of them doesn't make the situation any better for you.

[Patticus]

The Trump/Pence ticket had a great big interview on CBS last night, and it was... Well, let me tell you, it was something truly special, folks. Trump had obviously not even heard of Pence prior to the last week or so, and he kept interrupting him throughout. Not one question was fully answered, in the whole interview...

Quote

Lesley Stahl: But we did go to war, if you remember. We went to Iraq.

Donald Trump: Yeah, you went to Iraq, but that was handled so badly. And that was a war-- by the way, that was a war that we shouldn't have entered because Iraq did not knock down--excuse me

Lesley Stahl: Your running mate--

Donald Trump: Iraq did not--

Lesley Stahl: --voted for it.

Donald Trump: I don't care.

Lesley Stahl: What do you mean you don't care that he voted for?

Donald Trump: It's a long time ago. And he voted that way and they were also misled. A lot of information was given to people.

Lesley Stahl: But you've harped on this.

Donald Trump: But I was against the war in Iraq from the beginning.

Lesley Stahl: Yeah, but you've used that vote of Hillary's that was the same as Governor Pence as the example of her bad judgment.

Donald Trump: Many people have, and frankly, I'm one of the few that was right on Iraq.

Lesley Stahl: Yeah, but what about he--

Donald Trump: He's entitled to make a mistake every once in a while.

Lesley Stahl: But she's not? OK, come on--

Donald Trump: But she's not--

Lesley Stahl: She's not?

Donald Trump: No. She's not.

Lesley Stahl: Got it.

Hypocrisy, thy name is Donald J. Trump. Clinton is going to destroy them - the debates are going to be wonderful.

Quote

Lesley Stahl: --in December you tweeted, and I quote you, "Calls to ban Muslims from entering the U.S. are offensive and unconstitutional."

Donald Trump: So you call it territories. OK? We're gonna do territories. We're gonna not let people come in from Syria that nobody knows who they are. Hillary Clinton wants 550 percent more people to come in than Obama--

Lesley Stahl: So you--

Donald Trump: --who doesn't know what he's--

Lesley Stahl: --so you're changing--

Donald Trump: --so we're going to--

Lesley Stahl: --your position.

Donald Trump: --no, I-- call it whatever you want. We'll call it territories, OK?

Lesley Stahl: So not Muslims?

Donald Trump: You know-- the Constitution -- there's nothing like it. But it doesn't necessarily give us the right to commit suicide, as a country, OK? And I'll tell you this. Call it whatever you want, change territories, but there are territories and terror states and terror nations that we're not gonna allow the people to come into our country. And we're gonna have a thing called "Extreme vetting." And if people wanna come in, there's gonna be extreme vetting. We're gonna have extreme vetting. They're gonna come in and we're gonna know where they came from and who they are.

Let's target Middle Eastern migrants and call it something other than blind racism.

Apparently, someone doesn't know shit about the existing migrant vetting processes. Territories? Really?

Quote

Lesley Stahl: OK. More issues. Waterboarding. Mr. Trump wants to bring back waterboarding, and quote, "A hell of a lot more." Are you comfortable with bringing back waterboarding?

Mike Pence: I don't think we should ever tell our enemy what our tactics are.

Lesley Stahl: But what about that? What--

Mike Pence: I don't--

Lesley Stahl: --about-- he's publicly--

Donald Trump: I like that answer.

Lesley Stahl: --said that--

Mike Pence: I don't think we should-- I-- I think--

Lesley Stahl: But are you OK with the idea of--

Mike Pence: --I think--

Lesley Stahl: --waterboarding?

Mike Pence: --I think enhanced interrogation saved lives.

Lesley Stahl: And you're OK with--

Mike Pence: I--

Lesley Stahl: --that?

Mike Pence: --what I'm OK with-- what I'm OK with is protecting the American people. What I'm OK with is when people have the intent to come to this country and take American lives, that-- that we are-- that we are prepared to do what's necessary to gain the information to protect the people of this country--

Donald Trump: But Lesley, let's step further. We have an enemy, ISIS and others, who chop off heads, who drown people in steel cages and we can't do waterboarding--

Lesley Stahl: OK, but, but why--

Donald Trump: OK, they're not playing--

Lesley Stahl: --would you use their--

Donald Trump: --under -- because you know--

Lesley Stahl: --techniques?

Donald Trump: --what, those techniques get information. I don't care what anyone says.

Lesley Stahl: Are you agreeing with him?

Mike Pence: I am--

Donald Trump: And get information--

Mike Pence: --what I--

Donald Trump: --using those things.

Mike Pence: --what I can tell you is enhanced information gleaned information that saved American lives and, I was informed, prevented incoming terrorist attacks on this country from being successful. The American people expect the president of the United States to be prepared to support action to protect the people of this nation, and I know Donald Trump will.

Lesley Stahl: Have you answered me?

Mike Pence: I have.

Waaah! It's not fair these these extreme terrorists can do these horrible things and we can't! Wah! Wah!

I really, truly dread the day that this kind of lunacy is legitimized by electoral victory. Please, don't anybody vote for this ticket, don't be a complete fucking idiot. I don't want to insult anybody's intelligence here, but I will happily do so if you vote for these absolute clowns, because they.are.not.presidential.material.

[Toby]

[Tani Coyote]

1 hour ago, Toby said:

And yet, assuming all these comments are true, she would still be a better choice than Trump.

Objective racism versus subjective racism.

Let's be frank. If Hillary's personal bigotry leaked into her policy, she probably wouldn't be so damned popular with minorities. They're the reason she's going to be nominated and not Sanders.

We're not really in a position to pick perfect candidates in a first past the post system. But we can absolutely keep the guy who will do far more damage to minority voters with his policies out of office. Let's note again - there's a lot of people voting Clinton (myself included) who do not like her. But something about her platform - the Sanders compromises in my case - sways my vote.

Also, could you please actually add something to the topic? You've been here long enough to know posting images and nothing else is  frowned upon (not to mention strikeworthy in many cases, though I can somewhat guess what you're trying to illustrate here so won't consider this blatant spam). Images are supposed to supplement your point, not be your point.

[Tornado]

My issue with waterboarding mostly lies in the assumption that information gained from doing it will be correct; or, more pressingly, that there exists some scenario where it is the necessary course of action rather than an option.

[WakanoBaka]

14 hours ago, Zaysho said:

Yeah, no. We have a strict policy about suicide, which we take seriously, and these jokes aren't cute. Given your flippant attitude in this thread, and in the past on this board, I don't feel too bad about handing you a strike. If you have a problem with that, talk to Chris.

Shit, my bad. You must forgive me, Chris Ray Gun fan.

 

9 hours ago, Dizcrybe said:

First of all, I'm almost certain she's referring to Muslims, who he has unabashedly advocating the deportation of. So unless you yourself are Muslim, it's not really your problem.

Second, let me get this straight: you know he's racist and probably okay with the KKK, yet you still sit here and go "you know what, I don't think Trump is that bad"? Come on, man, think. Why would you prefer someone you know is racist over someone you merely have suspicions about? What you like you know your enemies? But they're your enemies! You shouldn't prefer either of them to be running the country, not the open racist nor the closet racist, because at the end of the day, they're both still bloody racist. Just because you know that about one of them doesn't make the situation any better for you.

Only loop hole with that is, you can't just be racist to ONE CERTAIN race, that's not how it works. And no, I very much don't believe Trump is racist. I assume they were referring to blacks because they brought up the KKK.

 

6 hours ago, Toby said:

 

I believe this is the case of saying without thinking. It in all shouldn't really effect your views on her.(remember that one cook who came out and admitted she said the n word, SHE GOT HELL FOR IT.) Also, some of those sources might be old.

 

Honestly, I'd still like Ms.Fiorina back in the game. Cause this year's race is mostly, chose the lesser of two evils.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Just now, WakanoBaka said:

Honestly, I'd still like Ms.Fiorina back in the game.

YASSSSSSSSSS

Her or Carson, I would chose but I really liked Fiorina, she's very down to earth and very intelligent and business savy. Too bad she was then added to someone else's ticket as a ditch effort to him to beat Trump. I don't know but I find that the men tend to exploit the conversvative women running along side them. It's happened to Palin and look where it got her.

[Nepenthe]

43 minutes ago, WakanoBaka said:

Shit, my bad. You must forgive me, Chris Ray Gun fan.

This isn't the time to be a smartass.

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Only loop hole with that is, you can't just be racist to ONE CERTAIN race, that's not how it works. And no, I very much don't believe Trump is racist. I assume they were referring to blacks because they brought up the KKK.

You can be racist to one certain race. Granted, this argument literally has nothing to do with what he's saying, so I don't know what you're on about now.

And truth doesn't require belief.

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I believe this is the case of saying without thinking. It in all shouldn't really effect your views on her.(remember that one cook who came out and admitted she said the n word, SHE GOT HELL FOR IT.) Also, some of those sources might be old.

Three of those statements I cannot corroborate outside of conservative websites that only exist to bash Democrats, so as far as I'm concerned their validity is highly questionable. The only thing anyone has on her is the superpredator comment which- here's the kicker- she actually apologized for. No one here except for people who are trying desperately to stan for Trump are making the deluded argument that Democrats and Hillary aren't in any way racist; indeed most active people here subscribe to institutional theory and believe in the validity of basic psychology, that everyone has biases of some sort.

However, only one candidate is actually apologizing for their racist remarks. Another candidate is undermining the dignity of our judges by calling them out on their race because boo-fucking-hoo you're not giving me the ruling I want. Only one candidate can't bring themselves to condemn the KKK's endorsements of them, or to condemn the rowdy behavior of the white nationalists jumping blacks at their conventions and getting away with it. Only one candidate is indeed stroking the cocks of those who need black and brown people to blame for their economic troubles and fragile egos by throwing said minorities under the bus for political gain, and it isn't fucking Hillary. She has the ability to apologize and evolve, or to at least have the damn decency to appear to. Trump has yet to even try, mainly because he doesn't need to since racism carried him all the way to the top of the ticket.

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Cause this year's race is mostly, chose the lesser of two evils.

Not really.

[Hyp3hat]

Seeing as Trump's (pitiful excuse for a) personality has come up, I just read this fascinating interview with the guy who ghostwrote 'The Art Of The Deal'. Spoiler alert, he's not happy with Trump's campaign.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/25/donald-trumps-ghostwriter-tells-all

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This year, Schwartz has heard some argue that there must be a more thoughtful and nuanced version of Donald Trump that he is keeping in reserve for after the campaign. “There isn’t,” Schwartz insists. “There is no private Trump.” This is not a matter of hindsight. While working on “The Art of the Deal,” Schwartz kept a journal in which he expressed his amazement at Trump’s personality, writing that Trump seemed driven entirely by a need for public attention.

[...]

"Lying is second nature to him,” Schwartz said. “More than anyone else I have ever met, Trump has the ability to convince himself that whatever he is saying at any given moment is true, or sort of true, or at least ought to be true.” Often, Schwartz said, the lies that Trump told him were about money—“how much he had paid for something, or what a building he owned was worth, or how much one of his casinos was earning when it was actually on its way to bankruptcy [...]  He lied strategically. He had a complete lack of conscience about it.” Since most people are “constrained by the truth,” Trump’s indifference to it “gave him a strange advantage.”