The General American Politics Thread

[Tani Coyote]

"He's the Founder because he got out of Iraq."

You mean George W. Bush is the founder, then, Mr. Trump, because Bush is the one who signed the agreement to pull out due to public pressure, and is the one who got us in, which you also throw a fit over. Obama merely carried it the withdrawal.

I bet the GOP wouldn't be so antsy about Executive Orders if Obama had chosen to ignore Bush's treaty commitments. Hypocrites.

Also, the latest "scandal" is Malia Obama apparently being caught smoking pot. I know the American right has increasingly degraded in their quality of discourse but... is this the best they can come up with? You thought Benghazi or e-mails were something, but this takes the cake. We're caring what a private citizen does just because she's the President's daughter?

Let it be known. It is wrong for Obama to monitor private citizens, but he must have his family under 24/7 surveillance.

Good to see the GOP has adopted Sir Robert Filmer's idea of the parents having supreme authority over their children, rather than the fiduciary authority prescribed by thinkers like Locke. This Malia scandal actually fits in quite well with the fact they have officially declared conversion therapy a parental choice. Children only have what rights the parents want to give them.

The Malia scandal seems small, but it speaks to the overall theme we're getting of the GOP as being without moral fiber. All the talking points that can be raised against Malia run contrary to ideas of individualism and liberty.

Never mind it's just dumb. It's a recreational drug that has increasing social acceptance on par with tobacco and alcohol, and is less harmful than them according to a lot of evidence. They act like she got addicted to heroin or cocaine and started doing drive-bys with gangsters while Obama looked the other way or something.

[-Robin-]

Nah guys. He was totally being sarcastic after all that. He says so himself!

 

 

Jesus Mary Joseph

[SenEDDtor Missile]

I almost expect Trump to claim he has evidence that Obama started 9/11 in a secret bid for power, was the secret leader of Al Qaeda and killed Osama Bin Laden (or that he is Osama Bin Laden's secret alter ego or something dumb like that) to cover his ass before starting ISIS, and that we must follow the "great" Hitler's example and eradicate all Muslims and anyone who might be muslim (IE Blacks, anyone with brown skin or wears muslim-esque clothing). To be honest, all of this shit is just making me wonder why anyone would ever think the Republican Party was sane to begin with.

[Dizcrybe]

1 hour ago, -Robin- said:

Nah guys. He was totally being sarcastic after all that. He says so himself!

 

 

Jesus Mary Joseph

"I-It was just a joke! I swear!"

It's like a youtube commenter decided to run for president.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

8 hours ago, -Robin- said:

Nah guys. He was totally being sarcastic after all that. He says so himself!

 

 

Jesus Mary Joseph

I'll just all the same thing again. Why is it that you (Trump) continue to make these insulting japes when they clearly hurt your publicity,  of you aren't really serious?

[Meta77]

On 8/12/2016 at 6:17 AM, Raccoonatic Ogilvie said:

"He's the Founder because he got out of Iraq."

You mean George W. Bush is the founder, then, Mr. Trump, because Bush is the one who signed the agreement to pull out due to public pressure, and is the one who got us in, which you also throw a fit over. Obama merely carried it the withdrawal.

I bet the GOP wouldn't be so antsy about Executive Orders if Obama had chosen to ignore Bush's treaty commitments. Hypocrites.

Also, the latest "scandal" is Malia Obama apparently being caught smoking pot. I know the American right has increasingly degraded in their quality of discourse but... is this the best they can come up with? You thought Benghazi or e-mails were something, but this takes the cake. We're caring what a private citizen does just because she's the President's daughter?

Let it be known. It is wrong for Obama to monitor private citizens, but he must have his family under 24/7 surveillance.

Good to see the GOP has adopted Sir Robert Filmer's idea of the parents having supreme authority over their children, rather than the fiduciary authority prescribed by thinkers like Locke. This Malia scandal actually fits in quite well with the fact they have officially declared conversion therapy a parental choice. Children only have what rights the parents want to give them.

The Malia scandal seems small, but it speaks to the overall theme we're getting of the GOP as being without moral fiber. All the talking points that can be raised against Malia run contrary to ideas of individualism and liberty.

Never mind it's just dumb. It's a recreational drug that has increasing social acceptance on par with tobacco and alcohol, and is less harmful than them according to a lot of evidence. They act like she got addicted to heroin or cocaine and started doing drive-bys with gangsters while Obama looked the other way or something.

Wait so in that case the people are to blame for isis coming to power since if you say bush is the reason and public pressure to leave than I guess it would be their fault cause all it did was create a power vacuum and obama has done little to anything to make it less worse

And on Malia so what if they pick with her being a pot head a little. Its the same as when everyone made fun of the bush twins for drinking. Ah what times it was when i was growing up when the biggest taboo was sex before marriage, today you can do pretty much anything and people will not really care.

[Tani Coyote]

On 8/12/2016 at 10:07 AM, -Robin- said:

Nah guys. He was totally being sarcastic after all that. He says so himself!

Clearly he doesn't know you're supposed to change your voice when engaging in sarcasm, to tip the other person off.

Or more likely, he's full of shit as always.

12 hours ago, Aoi said:

Oh my god, superdelegate that endorsed Clinton, worked in the Clinton administration, and had Bill Clinton raise $750,000 for his last campaign. Obviously that came from Boeing, etc. Now he has the gall to steal Bernie's rhetoric when he won the state by 70%? He's an incumbent establishment Democrat for Jesus' sake. Noooo shame.

More or less why many Democrats aren't really voting for her at this point, so much as against Trump.

I'd be very interested to see how this election would play out without the Trump factor. There's a lot of disgusting things that have gone on within the Democratic establishment, and they're only getting away with it because of a much more serious threat.

[Patticus]

Quote

Donald Trump goes to Louisiana flooding site and spends less than a minute handing out Play-Doh, and then leaves

The Governor of Louisiana warned Donald Trump not to visit the flooded disaster area of the state if he was only coming for a photo op, which would have created a traffic jam and diverted law enforcement away from helping with the recovery effort. So instead Trump showed up with a small truck of supplies and proceeded to spend a total of forty-nine seconds handing out those supplies before giving up and leaving. Worse, the “supplies” he handed out to flood victims were cartons of Play-Doh. No, seriously.

Photos of Donald Trump taken by those on the scene and posted to social media reveal that Donald Trump spent less than a minute handing out supplies – just 49 seconds according to at least one bystander – and he more or less just handed the supplies to Mike Pence the whole time. But in a storyline so strange that it wouldn’t be believable if there weren’t photographic evidence, Trump was literally handing out the children’s toy Play-Doh, as if that were of any help to those people in Louisiana who had just lost their homes or livelihoods to flooding.

When Trump wasn’t busy spending a few seconds handing boxes of glorified clay to the survivors of a tragedy, he was seen signing autographs for random people, and tying up the first responders who had been tasked with the recovery effort.

In other words, Donald Trump took an already bad situation in Louisiana and made it harmfully and embarrassingly worse for his own personal amusement. Some might argue that it’s a metaphor for what he’s spent the past year doing to the Republican Party. Trump had an opportunity to make the Louisiana situation work for him – but the optics of how he conducted himself have likely erased any perceptual advantage he might have gained if he’d done it thoughtfully.

http://www.dailynewsbin.com/news/donald-trump-goes-to-louisiana-flood-zone-spends-49-seconds-handing-out-play-doh-to-kids-leaves/25753/

Funny how people are finding the time to criticize Obama for not showing up in Louisiana to offer support, but have so little to say when Trump jets down there to hand out the one thing nobody in the disaster area wants or needs.

Amazing. Truly amazing.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

53 minutes ago, Patticus said:

http://www.dailynewsbin.com/news/donald-trump-goes-to-louisiana-flood-zone-spends-49-seconds-handing-out-play-doh-to-kids-leaves/25753/

Funny how people are finding the time to criticize Obama for not showing up in Louisiana to offer support, 

Nevermind that such folks ignore the fact that Obama was respecting the governor of Louisiana's requests in not coming immediately to boot. 

[Tani Coyote]

So, the latest scandal is San Francisco 49ers player Colin Kaepernick not standing during the national anthem. Kaepernick's reason? He feels that America does not do enough to help racial minorities (especially blacks).

It's naturally become a topic for a lot of nationalists to froth at the mouth over, but here's the real punchline: a huge number of veterans have come out in support of Kaepernick's right to sit or stand, and a good amount of them go even further by stating he has a valid point.

I think this does show a big difference in opinion on flags between the left and the right. The right view a flag as symbolic of a society, so treat it as untouchable (consider how this works for both the American and Confederate flags). Liberals tend to view flags as symbolic of the government (and indeed, let's recall our Pledge of Allegiance says "to the republic for which it stands," the republic being the government), so are accepting of criticism thereof.

My personal view is this is like BLM disrupting freeway traffic: disruption is the only way to get results at this point. There's a strong core of Americans who are indifferent to minorities' issues with zero interest in addressing them, so the only way to get their attention is to give them a long overdue wedgie.

The "black man is killed by white cop" story has gotten old. It hasn't really brought much change, since everyone makes up their minds the moment they hear the colors involved. The time for calm discussion over a cup of coffee is over, because it is largely fruitless. It's time for something different that is more aggressive, yet still nonviolent.

[-Robin-]

The whole Kaepernick debacle is a great demonstration of how myopic people can be.

 

Remember, it's only "patriotism" if they think it is.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Basically, people upset about this are talking about freedom...only when it makes them feel good that is.

I love how these people are trying to speak for soldiers instead of letting the soldiers do it their damned selves. Pretty sure they don't need help to tell someone about them fighting and dying for their rights by a bunch of civilians that don't have the guts to fight and die for it themselves...or worse, fight against someone else's rights for using them in a way they don't like despite no actual harm done. And no, your fragile ego doesn't count as being harmed.

[Dizcrybe]

Even with the hashtag people are like "oh like you guys represent all soldiers", like some weird No True Scotsman thing.

[KHCast]

This is so hilariously sad. Like, really wow, all over sitting. Also here's a post o made on Facebook:

The hypocrisy and hate in white America being currently shown from a black man simply sitting in protest is astounding, and sad. I seriously can't believe it. How is Colin the bad guy or asshole here? Nevermind football has some of the most racist(be it internally or not) "patriotic" white fans(which are a large group) in all
American sports, so this was clearly going to get the racists loud(almost as much as trump has done)8. Nevermind many of these people seem to be okay with Trump saying these things, but a black guy saying them means he needs to be deported. Nevermind half of these people likely don't stand themselves, and also justify still supporting nfl players that get away with ACTUAL disgusting things like rape and abuse.

Kaepernick makes money, yes, what does that have to do with the fact America IS very much racist/unequal in treatment in many areas of it both systematically and physically? He's payed to play football yes, but he's by no means obligated to keep his mouth shut.

"He hasn't done anything notable to help the cause." Yeah, and he's wanting to do something now, and that's bad cause? Better now than never.

Stop trying to put the blame on the black guy for not wanting to stand and pay respect to the country that doesn't respect many back(including many black people). We live in America, where people can express themselves, and take a stand(no pun intended) for what they believe. If it makes you uncomfortable or mad that people do this, blame the society that creates the need for these forms of expression, not the ones trying to make change. Otherwise, you're coming off as a racist redneck that doesn't want to acknowledge their own hate and oppression.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I am seeing more and more that patriotism in America is more like a cult. If you don't put your hand on your heart, you get bashed. If you don't stand for the anthem, you get bashed. Parents were even up in arms when a school sent out papers saying that if you do not want your child to say the pledge, sign this paper and they are excused (because everyone should be forced to show their allegiance to the USA, start em young). In other countries including mine, no one gets on your case for not singing the anthem and such.

And to be quite honest, I support what this guy did. Why would he show allegiance to a country that doesn't respect him?

As a conservative woman, I am proud of my country because it is a part of my indenity, however it has it's problems. America is the same way. 

EDIT: to add to this, one of the great things about America is that you have the freedom to speak or not to speak. So, welcome to the 1st amendment 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

The "He hasn't done anything notable to help the cause," is just hilarious - to people who say that, what the hell have you done to help the cause? I know the most I've done is merely discuss it, knowing that I'm not in the best state to do anything to help myself, but I'm not hypocritical or conceited enough to throw that around as if I have done something beneficial to the cause.

This is all just going to intensify as the demographics change and the US becomes a minority-majority country. How things will be is anyone's guess, but no doubt we'll have the usual bigots and racists throwing temper tantrums because other demographics are enjoying the same benefits they are.

[WakanoBaka]

8 hours ago, KHCast said:

This is so hilariously sad. Like, really wow, all over sitting. Also here's a post o made on Facebook:

 

 

Lord knows I hate BLMs with a passion.

 

Thou I must say, this doesn't seem like a race thing...and this is coming from a black guy. Cause when i think about it...a lot of people hate Trump. So who's to say those were the same people who yay'd when Trump said it? But of course that is one pov I have on it, I'll leave the rest for later.

[KHCast]

The "he hasn't done anything notable before this, so is just using it to stay relevant" excuse is so desperate sounding. They're really stretching in order to ignore that big ass elephant in the room. Yeah, a football player totally wouldn't want to fight oppression that many suffer through even if he doesn't. 

 

Also, can I say hypocrisy even more? Athletes show support or make a stand for things they aren't effected by all the time, so why is this suddenly such a horrible thing? Oh yeah, cause he dared call America not great.

 

@WakanoBaka tons of football fans are in the same demographic trump campaigns for tbh(least from what I've seen), sports, republicans and nationality go hand in hand a lot of times, look at the Olympics, so it wouldn't be surprising one bit to see overlap here. (Remember that gymnast chick that got put on blast for not putting her heart on her chest?) And it's hard to argue that this isn't a race thing when people are calling for him to be deported and attacking him for showing support for minorities. Even if they aren't trump supporters, traditional nationalists can get pretty darn crazy/racist. 

[WakanoBaka]

5 minutes ago, KHCast said:

@WakanoBaka tons of football fans are in the same demographic trump campaigns for tbh(least from what I've seen), sports and nationality go hand in hand a lot of times, look at the Olympics, so it wouldn't be surprising one bit to see overlap here. (Remember that gymnast chick that got put on blast for not putting her heart on her chest?) And it's hard to argue that this isn't a race thing when people are calling for him to be deported and attacking him for showing support.
 

D-d-deported? To where!?

Anyways, you could say it's not a race issue and rather an issue with patriotism. I mean, Trump may say, "America's not great" but people expect this type of stuff from him.

Now... You got this athlete saying "America's not great", people don't expect him to say that, America athletes are the roots of patriotism, you said it yourself;

Quote

sports and nationality go hand in hand a lot of times

America athletes are heroes in the eyes of Citizens.  America athletes are examples  of  Americans striving to be above average. This is supposedly their hero. You don't expect Superman to say; "Metropolis is filed with a lot of sucky ass people". That would ruin your image of him. America athletes aren't suppose to have opinions, they're IDOLS, hence why they are called "Idols". They are golden statues who are suppose to amaze us, look perfect, be perfect, and shut up. So when a statue starts talking...what the fuck you thinks gonna happen *shrug*

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

16 minutes ago, WakanoBaka said:

America athletes are heroes in the eyes of Citizens.  America athletes are examples  of  Americans striving to be above average. This is supposedly their hero. You don't expect Superman to say; "Metropolis is filed with a lot of sucky ass people". That would ruin your image of him. America athletes aren't suppose to have opinions, they're IDOLS, hence why they are called "Idols". They are golden statues who are suppose to amaze us, look perfect, be perfect, and shut up. So when a statue starts talking...what the fuck you thinks gonna happen *shrug*

Then those citizens need their eyes checked because an athlete doing sports for the financial gain, entertainment, and looking pretty like golden statues isn't exactly the best example of heroism, especially given how some of these athletes have commited some really bad crimes and they get overlooked.

They can be good role models that inspire folks to succeed, but that's not the same as calling them heroes that make some serious sacrifices and risks that athletes wouldn't do.

[KHCast]

Heroes. Right. 

[WakanoBaka]

18 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

especially given how some of these athletes have commited some really bad crimes and they get overlooked.

 

That doesn't exactly disprove my claim tho.

18 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

 

Then those citizens need their eyes checked because an athlete doing sports for the financial gain, entertainment, and looking pretty isn't exactly the best example of heroism

   

 

4 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Heroes. Right. 

 

Do I have to quote myself?

35 minutes ago, WakanoBaka said:

America athletes are heroes in the eyes of Citizens

The matter is subjective, subjected through the eyes of the citizens. Willful ignorance from the very people that idol them. Why would this come as a surprise tho?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

7 minutes ago, WakanoBaka said:

That doesn't exactly disprove my claim tho.

That wasn't the intent.

[KHCast]

So then what is the issue here? This stunt has resulted in tons of white people on social media getting all up in arms acting like they're being attacked, taking what he's said out of context, and are being racist/extremist towards Colin, and us simply taking notice of that is somehow wrong/ a problem? It's simply interesting how post trump, so many people are so loud and inconsiderate about what they say. This has happened twice in a month now(the Olympic chick and now this) where white people(majority wise) get pissed at a minority not following suit and being a mindless drone, and it's hard not to bring race into these situations. Especially when many of these people don't even probably do it themselves 

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

2 hours ago, WakanoBaka said:

Lord knows I hate BLMs with a passion.

 

Thou I must say, this doesn't seem like a race thing...and this is coming from a black guy. Cause when i think about it...a lot of people hate Trump. So who's to say those were the same people who yay'd when Trump said it? But of course that is one pov I have on it, I'll leave the rest for later.

Wasn't there a white man during the Olympics at one time who laughed during the National Anthem and no one complained?