The General American Politics Thread

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I don't know how that actually compares to sitting down during the Anthem, but I'm not the best to make judgement since I didn't watch the Olympics.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-08-10/michael-phelps-laughed-during-the-national-anthem-and-its-ok Here we go.

I brought that up because the two are similar. Both are seen as disrespectful acts, however one is being punished for it while the other gets of scott free. If America is all about "respect" why didn't anyone go after this guy when he laughed during the anthem?

[KHCast]

I'd say that story would have been more effectively used in regards to the gymnast story. Though I get the point being made. Though I think a thing to note is, as a player, Colin isn't seen as a "relevant" or big time athlete like say Tom Brady. Phelps is essentially a national treasure that apparently can't do any wrong in the eyes of the large majority 

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Okay upon doing some research, I found some interesting facts about the American national anthem. 

-First things first blah blah, the anthem was written in 1814 about the Battle of Fort McHenery blah blah standard American history stuff I didn't know

-The anthem that we sing, that is just the first verse. There is much more to the anthem than what we sing, which I will post in a spoiler after this.

-Part of the reason why the British were so successful in overtaking Canada and overunning DC was because they recruited American slaves in their ranks. Slaves would fight along side the British against Americans to secure their freedom and were promised they would never go back to their owners. They were trained and they faught in their most important battles. 6,000 slaves have faught along side the British. in fact the anthem speaks of them in passage 3:

• And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
  That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
  A home and a country, should leave us no more?
  Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
  No refuge could save the hireling and slave
  From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
  And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
  O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

So with that, the national anthem pretty much celebrates America's victory of not just the British but the slaves recruited in their ranks. So it is very safe to say that the national anthem celebrates the death of American slaves. Also there was also a 5th passage added by a different person back in the Civil War days and I do wonder who the "traitors" he mentions are. Slaves? I don't know that is up to interpretation. 

Just some food for thought. Entire anthem is in the spoiler below.

Spoiler

O! say can you see, by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming,
Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there;
O! say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

On the shore dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected now shines in the stream:
'Tis the star-spangled banner, O! long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country, should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

O! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved homes and the war's desolation.
Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the Heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: 'In God is our trust.'
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

5th passage that was added in 1861:

When our land is illumined with Liberty's smile,
If a foe from within strike a blow at her glory,
Down, down with the traitor that dares to defile
The flag of her stars and the page of her story!
By the millions unchained who our birthright have gained,
We will keep her bright blazon forever unstained!
And the Star-Spangled Banner in triumph shall wave
While the land of the free is the home of the brave.

 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

At this point, I'm starting to wonder if most outrage coming from that obviously racist portion is all the more part of their fear, knowing that their ideals, wide-spread as they may be, are weakening, little by little.

Like, they fear the inevitable future that minorities, will not only get full-on equal treatment, even passing on a regular basis the lazy ones, regardless of ethnicity as racial bias, hidden as it may be at the moment, will eventually, no matter how long it takes, get weeded out.

See, it used to be they laughed, assaulted, and did far worse to something like a peaceful protest or march. Now they feel threatened so easily by one man not standing up. Oh it's a big statement, and he's a notable figure, but it's obvious, that the bigots, the egomaniacs, elitists, all those who bask and thrive for bias, power, and keeping the minorities, well, minorities that they can keep under their foots; they get more and more desperate as more and more the message that we've had enough of that shit is so strong that yes, a black man sitting down gets the message out with such potency.

They thought we'd stay slaves, well think again.

They thought we'd take squandered lives with lynchings, and they were wrong.

Regular segregation was another supposedly invincible giant that wasn't worth challenging. Hindsight laughs at all those.

 

Even if it takes centuries, they know that those who fight for the rights of everyone will at some point, topple the blockades that hinder social progression, and the like. And that, is why this whole debacle over a football player is present.

[KHCast]

In other news...

[Dizcrybe]

Going back to Kaepernick for a sec, someone on another forum linked a New York Daily News article about the whole thing, which I think is dead on the money. Here's what was quoted:

Quote

The most common, politically correct refrain I have heard from white critics of Colin Kaepernick's silent protest during the "Star-Spangled Banner" is that they kind of understand his motivations for protesting, but they just don't like his methods.

 

As a recap, San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick has decided to silently take a knee during the pre-game singing of the national anthem.

 

In response to his silent, peaceful protest, NFL executives are calling him "a traitor," saying that they absolutely hate him, and that he is the most despised NFL player among executives since Rae Carruth hired a man to kill his pregnant girlfriend. Yeah, really. And those are the executives from his league.

 

A quick scan of Twitter will produce death threats and racial slurs. Donald Trump, who has based his entire campaign on the idea that America is a steaming hot mess that he can make great again, even said that if Colin doesn't like this country, he should find another country to move to. That was basically code for "Go back to Africa." In other words, if you are white and think this country sucks, you should run for President on that premise, but if you are black and think the same thing, you should move the hell out.

 

These sentiments aren't obscure. Talking heads, athletes, writers, and politicians all over America have expressed disgust over Colin's silent protest.

 

Well, I have a question.

 

Exactly which form of our protest do you actually prefer?

 

You hated when Cleveland Browns player Andrew Hawkins wore a "I Can't Breathe" T-shirt before a game.

 

You hated when Lebron James did the same thing.

 

You hated when several players from the St. Louis Rams simply put their hands up in the air before a game in solidarity with unarmed victims of police brutality.

 

When we march across the country, you mock us.

 

When we block intersections and hold up traffic, your blood boils.

 

Colin Kaepernick being treated like he's the killer

 

When we simply express our concerns on Twitter and Facebook, we receive extreme opposition.

 

I think the point you are really making is that for you, to be patriotic and black, is to be silent in the face of injustice. We shouldn't march, we shouldn't sit down silently, we shouldn't wear T-shirts, we shouldn't put our hands up, we should just suffer and take the injustice with a wink and a nod. And, we should also sing and dance and hoop and score touchdowns for you with big huge smiles on our faces like the injustice doesn't even bother us. Hell, I think you want us to actually like it.

 

For I have yet to see a form of protest that you actually agree with.

 

Because here's what I really know - you have not yet seen the harshest protests and boycotts that we could try next to wake this nation up and motivate it to actually right the wrongs of police brutality and racial injustice. You should welcome Colin Kaepernick's peaceful and measured protest.

 

What if NFL players decided to actually stop playing until this nation took our pain seriously?

 

What if people of good conscience decided to stage an economic boycott unlike anything this nation has ever seen before?

 

What we are doing now is actually the tame, palatable alternative to those things, but it all seems to be too much for you - which is strange because you have said so little about the injustice itself.

 

Drew Brees, I am looking at you.

 

Boomer Esiason, I am definitely looking at you.

 

If only our pain bothered you as much as our protests.

 

Edited September 3, 2016 by Dizcrybe

[SenEDDtor Missile]

34 minutes ago, Dizcrybe said:

Going back to Kaepernick for a sec, someone linked a New York Daily News article about the whole thing, which I dead is dead on the money. Here's what was quoted:

 

I'm guessing the responses were about how much the article was biased and downhill journalism for not being "fair", throwing claims of the author being an SJW or Black Lover, all the while claiming they aren't racist while claiming that Fuhrer Trump would eradicate the Hideous Hillary Monster and all minorities would learn to shut up and let their white privilege remain while police officers are saints for murdering dangerous would be criminals despite having no evidence.

[Dizcrybe]

7 hours ago, SenEDtor Missile said:

I'm guessing the responses were about how much the article was biased and downhill journalism for not being "fair", throwing claims of the author being an SJW or Black Lover, all the while claiming they aren't racist while claiming that Fuhrer Trump would eradicate the Hideous Hillary Monster and all minorities would learn to shut up and let their white privilege remain while police officers are saints for murdering dangerous would be criminals despite having no evidence.

Do you mean on the Daily News page or the forum I got it from? Cause the latter's very much left-leaning.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

1 hour ago, Dizcrybe said:

Do you mean on the Daily News page or the forum I got it from? Cause the latter's very much left-leaning.

Either way, I was just posting what I usually come to expect from articles that lean left.

[-Robin-]

Phyllis Schlafly, a leading super conservative activist and founder of the conservative group Eagle Forum, died today in her home in St. Louis. She was 92.

 

Schlafly is credited for getting Barry Goldwater the platform he needed to secure the 1964 Republican Party nomination, and also for defeating the Equal Rights Amendment in the 70s, with three states shy of the necessary minimum for ratification, which consequently revitalized a staggering conservative movement into voting Ronald Reagan into office in 1980, setting the groundwork for how most conservative policies are made today.

 

Love her or hate her - her unabashed opposition to gender equality rights, gay rights, and immigration leave a lot to be desired - she's still a modern day political icon who  helped shape the GOP into what it is today, which is deserving of respect regardless. 

 

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/conservative-activist-phyllis-schlafly-dies-at-92-227749?cmpid=sf

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Her opposition to the Equal Rights Amendment is the biggest reason I'm not a fan of her, to be honest.

[-Robin-]

Well, yeah, only those that want to play 1953 make believe could really be a fan of her.

 

But hey, that description makes up the bulk of the 2016 Republican presidential candidates quite well. Many of the policies brought forth by them, Trump included (who she endorsed), can be traced back to her.

 

She's as much a progenitor of modern day conservatism as people believe Reagan is.

[KHCast]

Thought this was crazy accurate to the actual problem, and wanted to share it lol. And people apparently still can't seem to wrap their head around this problem. 

[Dizcrybe]

6 hours ago, KHCast said:

Thought this was crazy accurate to the actual problem, and wanted to share it lol. And people apparently still can't seem to wrap their head around this problem. 

It's hard to understand a problem you refuse to accept exists.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

13 hours ago, KHCast said:

Thought this was crazy accurate to the actual problem, and wanted to share it lol. And people apparently still can't seem to wrap their head around this problem. 

I'm starting to think it's less that people can't seem to wrap their head around the problem and more that people know damn well what the issue is and would rather like to keep it that way for their amusement and egotism. Because they know as much as we do that they wouldn't let this fly if they were in that position.

I know people can be stupid, but there are things so obvious that even stupidity can recognize somethings up.

[Tani Coyote]

On 9/8/2016 at 10:12 PM, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

I'm starting to think it's less that people can't seem to wrap their head around the problem and more that people know damn well what the issue is and would rather like to keep it that way for their amusement and egotism. Because they know as much as we do that they wouldn't let this fly if they were in that position.

I know people can be stupid, but there are things so obvious that even stupidity can recognize somethings up.

Well, let's be honest.

We like to think of ourselves as self-made. The existence of things like racism would tear that down in seconds.

Never mind the taxpayer-funded roads we drive on, the taxpayer-funded schools we send our kids too so they won't be dumb as rocks, the taxpayer-funded agencies that make sure our food and drink won't give us food poisoning, the taxpayer-funded police and military forces that make sure enemies foreign and domestic can't run amock.

There is no such thing as an individual in a society. We are all interconnected, able to influence if not outright control others. This is precisely why we are often wary of government - we fear coercion. It never occurs to a lot of people that coercion exists beyond the government sphere, or that coercion can be applied in a prejudiced manner by those same government forces.

So, it fits the narrative for many to assume everything is fine and dandy and that the real enemy is Uncle Sam with his social justice warrior agenda, rather than assuming that maybe there is legitimate, widespread discrimination of all kinds.

[Dizcrybe]

44 minutes ago, Raccoonatic Ogilvie said:

So, it fits the narrative for many to assume everything is fine and dandy and that the real enemy is Uncle Sam with his social justice warrior agenda, rather than assuming that maybe there is legitimate, widespread discrimination of all kinds.

It's interesting, because to others, Uncle Sam is still the enemy, but because he represents all the baked-in prejudices America is saddled with, among other things.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I know it has nothing to do with politics but I must say the conspiracy around Hillary's health are laughable. I am not a Hillary fan, but I don't believe the lies about it.

>her foot bent

>"omg she collapsed, totally unfit to be preisdent!11"

Unless you are a doctor, you shouldn't be making such statements.

EDIT: I saw she was offcinally dianoigsed. Still people shouldn't be making theroies about it. I wish her all the best.

[Conando]

What's there to theorize about someone getting pneumonia anyway? ANYONE can get pneumonia, it's a common illness. It's not particularly surprising a 68-year-old woman caught it.

 

And if people are arguing age as the reason why, Trump is 70. Men still punch out of this mortal coil earlier.

[Patticus]

People are going to come up with their own bullshit narratives to fill in the blanks of the unknown, which is what the Clinton campaign has allowed to happen with the e-mail shit. Her doctor getting the word out is great, but I feel like she'll probably have to release some actual medical records before too long anyway; Trump has been going full-conspiracy theorist about her health for the last month or so, and this plays right into his hands in a big way.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

On 9/11/2016 at 2:58 PM, Raccoonatic Ogilvie said:

Well, let's be honest.

We like to think of ourselves as self-made. The existence of things like racism would tear that down in seconds.

Never mind the taxpayer-funded roads we drive on, the taxpayer-funded schools we send our kids too so they won't be dumb as rocks, the taxpayer-funded agencies that make sure our food and drink won't give us food poisoning, the taxpayer-funded police and military forces that make sure enemies foreign and domestic can't run amock.

There is no such thing as an individual in a society. We are all interconnected, able to influence if not outright control others. This is precisely why we are often wary of government - we fear coercion. It never occurs to a lot of people that coercion exists beyond the government sphere, or that coercion can be applied in a prejudiced manner by those same government forces.

So, it fits the narrative for many to assume everything is fine and dandy and that the real enemy is Uncle Sam with his social justice warrior agenda, rather than assuming that maybe there is legitimate, widespread discrimination of all kinds.

That just tells me that people have so much pride and arrogance that they're blinded to reality, and reinforces my previous point on it.

Really baffles me how people like that refuse to admit they're wrong - it's really not gonna kill them, nor their ego. And unless they like seeing people harmed by such discrimination and prejudice - beyond being blind to these problems or taking advantage of them to get ahead, I can barely see any other reason why they'd assume things are fine and dandy - it's really not going to take anything of value away from them. But let's be real, that's kind of the reason why we have many of these problems in the first place, and many who are aware deny it out of self-interest, if that makes any sense.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

14 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

That just tells me that people have so much pride and arrogance that they're blinded to reality, and reinforces my previous point on it.

Really baffles me how people like that refuse to admit they're wrong - it's really not gonna kill them, nor their ego. And unless they like seeing people harmed by such discrimination and prejudice - beyond being blind to these problems or taking advantage of them to get ahead, I can barely see any other reason why they'd assume things are fine and dandy - it's really not going to take anything of value away from them. But let's be real, that's kind of the reason why we have many of these problems in the first place, and many who are aware deny it out of self-interest, if that makes any sense.

Some people would rather see the world burn than be wrong.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Just now, SenEDtor Missile said:

Some people would rather see the world burn than be wrong.

Well those people can do the world a favor and burn themselves instead of others.

[Patticus]

Trump doesn't want debate moderators...

Quote

Trump on Monday floated a new idea for his upcoming debates against Clinton, proposing a debate without a moderator to avoid a “very unfair” showdown because such a person would go “really hard” against him following Matt Lauer’s performance in NBC News' commander in chief forum last week.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/trump-no-debate-moderator-228016

Clearly he has been made aware that the huge backlash against Lauer's coddling is going to feed into a harder, fact checking-based approach by the upcoming debate moderators, who will be keen to avoid similar shitstorms. Trump and co being terrified of being called on his bullshit on the biggest live television events of the year, now he just doesn't want moderators at all.