The General American Politics Thread

[Johnny Boy]

22 minutes ago, Noelgilvie said:

I am legitimately facepalming that the new investigation seems to actually be plummeting Hillary's numbers and now she's barely ahead of Trump, or actually behind him.

I fucking hate Comey, to put it lightly. What a piece of shit. He knows full well what he did.

Think bigger picture, America. The Democrats will work towards universal healthcare, universal tuition, a stronger safety net, rights for minorities... Jesus Christ. This really shouldn't even be a debate. The GOP is a dinosaur and the sooner it becomes a fossil with bunk ideas like trickle down economics, a larger police presence, and throwing rocks at foreign governments for not bending to our will, the better.

So Hillary might actually lose next week? No, no gotta stay positive. I have to believe America won't be dumb enough to elect an idiot like trump.

[nintega137]

14 minutes ago, Johnny Boy said:

So Hillary might actually lose next week? No, no gotta stay positive. I have to believe America won't be dumb enough to elect an idiot like trump.

Don't worry, win or lose you can rest easy knowing that America was dumb enough to at least come close to elect an idiot like Trump. 

[Patticus]

Today's polling indicates that Trump's late surge may have peaked:

There's still just enough time for one more momentum shift though - for both candidates. All the news about Trump and his suspect ties to Russia may yet swing things away from him. I mean, what self respecting Baby Boomer human being would vote for a man like that?

[KHCast]

1 hour ago, nintega137 said:

Oh, yea he did say that. My bad, but in a way that almost makes it even worse. I also have facebook friends who supported Trump and while I didn't talk to them myself, seeing them talk to other people told me they wouldn't listen, and several of them unfriended me themselves when they found out I didn't. Some unfriend me if they find out I support or at least don't hate #BLM. 

Also another thing, for a friend, he didn't seem to talk in a way that sounded like respectful debate. 

 

Just the first half of that in particular. Who says "I'm bored so I'll indulge you" to a friend? Sounds more like something you'd say to be a jackass to a random youtube commenter or something. Not your "friend". 

The SYD guy wasn't a friend, he was a friend of a friend who came into the conversation. First two pics were from a friend though

To put it quite plainly, I'm done with this argument with these guys. The reason for the most part I engage in these conversation is usually cause they respond to my comments, or comments of close friends that express something, and the way they usually disagree comes off disrespectful, so I engage to put them in their place or to at least get them to respect the other side of the argument.

[Mad Convoy]

9 minutes ago, Patticus said:

Today's polling indicates that Trump's late surge may have peaked:

There's still just enough time for one more momentum shift though - for both candidates. All the news about Trump and his suspect ties to Russia may yet swing things away from him. I mean, what self respecting Baby Boomer human being would vote for a man like that?

If 538's probability of winning graph is any indication, its apparently quite common for Clinton's chances of victory to spike way up around the start of a month then suddenly plummet by the middle of the month, only to spike up once more by the start of the next month or even near the end. Somebody had described the chart as looking like an alien's body-- I quite like that comparison.

However, she has almost always had a higher chance of winning than Trump-- the only time when she didn't have the lead was during July 30-August 1, when she and Trump had what amounted to an equal chance of winning, and that's long gone now. She also has never lost the popular vote according to 538, though her and Trump's numbers are quite close and they are prone to a similar pattern of fluctuation as her chance of winning.

So if the pattern we see here is to continue, Clinton is due for another spike while Trump is due for a fall.

[nintega137]

33 minutes ago, KHCast said:

The SYD guy wasn't a friend, he was a friend of a friend who came into the conversation. First two pics were from a friend though

To put it quite plainly, I'm done with this argument with these guys. The reason for the most part I engage in these conversation is usually cause they respond to my comments, or comments of close friends that express something, and the way they usually disagree comes off disrespectful, so I engage to put them in their place or to at least get them to respect the other side of the argument.

 

Those post (all of them) came off as either disrespectful of you or other groups of people (like Ethiopians) so I don't see it personally.  

[Patticus]

2 hours ago, Mad Convoy said:

If 538's probability of winning graph is any indication, its apparently quite common for Clinton's chances of victory to spike way up around the start of a month then suddenly plummet by the middle of the month, only to spike up once more by the start of the next month or even near the end. Somebody had described the chart as looking like an alien's body-- I quite like that comparison.

[...] So if the pattern we see here is to continue, Clinton is due for another spike while Trump is due for a fall.

The first Clinton bounce came after the Democratic convention at the end of July, which was followed by a gradual deflation of the balloon throughout August, leading into a rocky September (following the "Bad Weekend"). The second major bounce occurred after Clinton's resounding victory in the first debate. She peaked in mid-October, following two more less decisive debate wins, and drifted with a good amount of stability and good will until FBI Director Comey took it upon himself to announce a second e-mail investigation, while behind closed doors arguing against announcing investigations that, coincidentally, might hurt Trump (i.e. Paul Manafort), due to the election's close proximity (which should have precluded him from making the e-mail announcement). Without any more debates to lift Clinton higher, it really was only a matter of whose next scandal would break first, and I'm not convinced that Clinton is going to get another bounce at this point - unless the Trump-Russia thing blows up big, which it doesn't appear to be about to.

And to clarify the Comey announcements thing for everyone (I'm not digging at anyone here), the FBI Director isn't supposed to talk openly about investigations at all, the Justice Department is, and his decision not to speak publicly again before the election while his last words were on the e-mails makes him look, well, partisan and unprofessional; the wielder of the double standard that might yet tip the election. If he doesn't speak again very soon, he should probably resign, and an investigation into his conduct should be launched. What he's been doing isn't right.

 

One final thing before I hit the hay: Voter turnout in North Carolina appears to show African American and Hispanic voters coming out in lower numbers than in 2012, while the 65+ age group is seeing higher turnout. Sigh. I guess not even Michelle "The People's Princess" Obama can get them out.

[Meta77]

I'm probably going for Trump still. Just my opinion. As stated why keep picking on either side this is the 5 yard line. People know who they want.

[Jack / Joker]

As a Canadian living in the United Kingdom and frankly, a bit of a child, I do not pretend to have much room to poke my nose in American politics. But there is something I feel a need to say.

This year my adopted country had to make a vote on a matter in which the "bad" option seemed blatantly, unashamedly obvious as such, and as a decision fueled only by the hateful and the misguided. Against not merely optimism but reason itself, our country chose that option and everyone, voters this way, voters that way, and voters not at all have had to suffer the consequences. You cannot underestimate people making that kind of decision, no matter how unthinkable it may seem that they would do so.

So do not underestimate it, you Americans. You think the other option is hopeless? So did we. Get in there and make it hopeless.

[Patticus]

Someone might be about to initiate the final momentum change in the race:

 

A quarter of an hour, folks. If there's any justice in the world, it'll dominate the last few news cycles before the election and kill off a lot of his remaining softcore support.

[Dizcrybe]

Literally all I expect is Trump supporters either downplaying it, claiming she's lying (or exaggerating), or giving him a proverbial high-five.

Whatever comes of her speech, I don't think it's likely to change dick.

[Patticus]

Trump will call her a lying gold-digging whore in a 3am Twitter rampage, and his core support supporters will either ignore or downplay it, but surely it'll eat into the wider Republican base that has only just come to embrace him in the last few days of polling? And it will certainly help push the last remaining undecided voters away from him.

[MightyRay]

How not to promote your candidate case no.38574: burning a black church and then spray painting Vote Trump on one of the walls. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-03/mississippi-church-burned,-vandalized-with-'vote-trump'/7991312

[Johnny Boy]

17 minutes ago, Mightyray said:

How not to promote your candidate case no.38574: burning a black church and then spray painting Vote Trump on one of the walls. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-03/mississippi-church-burned,-vandalized-with-'vote-trump'/7991312

And yet according to Trumps sheep, it was actually done by Democrats to try and make Trump look bad right before the election. Yeah last time I checked, white supremacist groups aren't the ones cheering on Hillary.

[Patticus]

I guess we have to wait for a little longer to hear from the woman alleging Trump raped her, but this conference has to happen as soon as possible.

[Tani Coyote]

13 hours ago, Meta77 said:

I'm probably going for Trump still. Just my opinion. As stated why keep picking on either side this is the 5 yard line. People know who they want.

And I trust you understand "people know who they want" doesn't mean their preference is free from criticism.

He mocked a man with disabilities.

He mocked another man who is partially disabled because of torture endured as a prisoner of war. Furthermore, he used a veteran's mother's grief as an excuse to go on a tirade about Islam.

He has routinely objectified women in comments that go back decades and are still relatively recent.

He has called for an entire class of Americans to be nationally registered on the basis of their religion.

He has received praise from some of the most despotic, authoritarian regimes on this Earth, and several white supremacist organizations; in the latter case, he refused to disavow one of them when questioned on it.

He claimed a judge can't give fair verdicts against Trump's own organizations because that judge happened to have Mexican heritage.

How can you vote in good conscience for someone who it would be too kind to call a "piece of shit?"

Actually, I'll do it one better and practice what I preach with Hillary in going beyond the candidate and looking at the Party. The GOP's political platform: calls for allowing parents to force their gay and transgender children through therapy; insists a background in Christianity is necessary to be well-educated; considers expanded reviews of police behavior to be cop shaming; supports discrimination against LGBT people in employment and consumption; opposes any restrictions on money in politics; calls for the end of federal student loans in favor of private loans; and a return to the pre-Obamacare system which wasn't exactly good to begin with, among other things. Then you have the wealth of information that shows their ideas such as voter ID laws and trickle down economics have little basis in fact and aren't really helping society.

This is to say nothing of their despicable behavior such as sinking numerous veterans' rights bills these last several years, all while having the nerve to call themselves the pro-soldier party. Never mind the fact the status quo they support ultimately comes down hardest on historically marginalized groups. The status quo sucks. It needs to go.

3 hours ago, Johnny Boy said:

And yet according to Trumps sheep, it was actually done by Democrats to try and make Trump look bad right before the election. Yeah last time I checked, white supremacist groups aren't the ones cheering on Hillary.

I'm surprised they haven't started eating up the idea of Hillary supporters framing white supremacists as a means to compare her to Hitler and the Reichstag fire (possibly caused by the Nazis themselves and blamed on the Communists) being used to justify the Nazi seizure of power. What with all the "Trump is Hitler" soundbites I'd expect more from the other side.

[KHCast]

I want to like Ogi's post so many times holy shit. Should also add that Trump said at one point he'd do his best to try reversing the same sex marriage law.

[Patticus]

To add to the Trump bandwagon:

There's a good chance that he'll soon be a convicted pedophile.
He might well also be a Homeland-esque puppet of Vladimir Putin. His known links to Russia, his two former campaign chiefs with Russian ties, the secret server, and the intelligence on him brought forth to the FBI by a senior spy, demand the kind of congressional fury and long, searching investigations that Clinton has endured for so many years.

Any one of the things listed so far should have killed his campaign stone dead, and it says nothing good about the GOP or his support base that they haven't. I suppose it must also speak to the effectiveness of decades of anti-Clintonian propaganda and witch hunts, as well as Clinton's instinctive loathing of anything that would obviously endear her to America.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

It says a lot that a sizable number of people voting for Hillary are not excusing her for her bullshit for the most part or that of the DNC corruption.

Really, there's fine lines between denial, ignorance, and arrogance, and a lot of the people voting Trump wouldn't excuse any of his antics if it were any other kind of person. For starters -- I heard this one somewhere, and it really says a lot -- if Trump were black, the first thing he would be called is a "thug" for all this stuff he's done and a downright irresponsible person all around. And he wouldn't be anywhere near being elected to the White House even if he was representing the GOP, otherwise we'd probably have Carson in Trump's place.

[Meta77]

2 hours ago, Noelgilvie said:

And I trust you understand "people know who they want" doesn't mean their preference is free from criticism.

He mocked a man with disabilities.

He mocked another man who is partially disabled because of torture endured as a prisoner of war. Furthermore, he used a veteran's mother's grief as an excuse to go on a tirade about Islam.

He has routinely objectified women in comments that go back decades and are still relatively recent.

He has called for an entire class of Americans to be nationally registered on the basis of their religion.

He has received praise from some of the most despotic, authoritarian regimes on this Earth, and several white supremacist organizations; in the latter case, he refused to disavow one of them when questioned on it.

He claimed a judge can't give fair verdicts against Trump's own organizations because that judge happened to have Mexican heritage.

How can you vote in good conscience for someone who it would be too kind to call a "piece of shit?"

Actually, I'll do it one better and practice what I preach with Hillary in going beyond the candidate and looking at the Party. The GOP's political platform: calls for allowing parents to force their gay and transgender children through therapy; insists a background in Christianity is necessary to be well-educated; considers expanded reviews of police behavior to be cop shaming; supports discrimination against LGBT people in employment and consumption; opposes any restrictions on money in politics; calls for the end of federal student loans in favor of private loans; and a return to the pre-Obamacare system which wasn't exactly good to begin with, among other things. Then you have the wealth of information that shows their ideas such as voter ID laws and trickle down economics have little basis in fact and aren't really helping society.

This is to say nothing of their despicable behavior such as sinking numerous veterans' rights bills these last several years, all while having the nerve to call themselves the pro-soldier party. Never mind the fact the status quo they support ultimately comes down hardest on historically marginalized groups. The status quo sucks. It needs to go.

I'm surprised they haven't started eating up the idea of Hillary supporters framing white supremacists as a means to compare her to Hitler and the Reichstag fire (possibly caused by the Nazis themselves and blamed on the Communists) being used to justify the Nazi seizure of power. What with all the "Trump is Hitler" soundbites I'd expect more from the other side.

Can not say I like him but when voting for two evils I am going for the one I feel less likely to get us in trouble with russia. Sure people like picking on them as a joke but the country with the second highest count of nuclear arms is most important to me. As I said just my preference. If you voted hill more power to you. Thats just how politics works.

 

Honestly by next week ill probably go third party. Eh both are shit in my eyes.

[KHCast]

Please tell me this isn't true 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Considering who posted it on Facebook....I'mma say no?

EDIT: Make that a hell no, for now.

[KHCast]

After reading that, it just makes me so confused as to how trump has survived. He's like a cockroach good god. Most politicians would have killed their chances if they said 1/100th of the shit he says republican or not.

 

Goes to show the massive sexist double standard people have. Trump does tons of shit, and his numbers barely see a dent. Something claimed about Hilary is stated that doesn't result in anything being found or even related to her, and her massive lead is lost cause "trust" issues 

Quote

Donald Trump has been hit by several scandals since his campaign began. The most notable was the release on 7 October of a video in which he can be heard boasting about sexually assaulting women. He said his comments were "just words" and denied ever having groped a woman - but several have since come forward alleging just that. 

This would have been enough to end the campaigns (and political lives) of many candidates, but Mr Trump has survived. Indeed, one CNN poll released on 24 October put him on 45% - exactly the same figure he was on in the previous CNN poll released on 3 October. Both polls had Mrs Clinton leading on 51%.

[Jeffhog]

I mean when you're stuck between Clinton and Trump, how CAN you choose, right?

This has been an extremely concerned neighbouring Canadian's saddening attempt at levity in commenting about the seedy underbelly of American politics.

Please don't fuck this up next week. Don't vote for the mentally deranged, 4th grade-limited vocabulary, dangerously ill-tempered, baby-hands Oompa-Loompa fuckface who was mistakenly given the privilege to breathe in the first place. He will ruin us all. The world is watching, America. DO NOT FUCK THIS UP.

[KHCast]

Just a reminder for those still thinking Pence ain't that bad

After reading the comments this is from, it's amazing how people are like "yeah gays would suffer, but I'd rather a homophobe than someone that would (insert shit not sourced thing about Hilary). Also, even if this is taken out of context, the law from what I'm seeing still is allowing people to discriminate using "religious freedom" which is a practice that needs to fucking die. But sure, let's justify this and just talk about Hilary some more and how she supposedly isnt any better for gays, using her charity to say by accepting money from countries that hate gays(which is still like a majority of areas in the world), she hates us and can't do us good.

also, can we just stop with the excuses like "well he's not supporting terrorists and staging shit at least" bs to give trump free passes on being shit? Those don't even help his case. He's still threatening those within the country even if he isn't.