The General American Politics Thread

[-Robin-]

Narrative. Vindication. I want those words to be on everyone's purview when people are contemplating just how bad, or ok, a Trump presidency will be. Because those also were at stake here this election. Not just policies.

I honestly don't give a family friendly f*** right now about how Trump and co. will handle the presidency. Because right now we have people genuinely fearful for their well-being because all the anti-XXX groups who endorsed and supported Trump, the KKK included, have essentially been given the green light to start. That is abhorrent, and actions should be made to rectify it.

You claim you're not a racist, ableist, or misogynist but voted for Trump? Then you better go prove it right now, by helping those legitimately in fear right now. If you don't, then you'll forever be looked upon as being complicit to the strife.

[Mad Convoy]

Oh my god, that's completely awful. Its like people have done the timewarp back to the 1950s or something.

Please, don't stand for stuff like this. Show the bigots and the world that no, they don't represent the majority. Heck, somebody almost got shoved onto subway tracks today for wearing a hijab-- something that could have killed her. Seconding Robin here-- if you voted for Trump and want people to take your #NotAllTrumpSupporters crap seriously, stop the apologetics and defend people from bullying like this before somebody gets seriously hurt or dies. 

I feel lucky to live in an area that doesn't have a lot of people doing stuff like that, but at the same time, that limits my ability to help since I haven't yet been personally confronted with  incidents like this yet. I give all my respect to people who have to deal with this on a daily basis-- if there's any way I can help them, I will.

[KHCast]

I'm honestly curious if the concept of empathy is dead now, cause even the people (at least a lot of them I've seen) that weren't for either candidate or were for trump but don't consider themselves those extremists seem to undermine and downplay minorities fears in this regard. 

[Dizcrybe]

Just now, KHCast said:

I'm honestly curious if the concept of empathy is dead now, cause even the people (at least a lot of them I've seen) that weren't for either seem to undermine and downplay minorities fears in this regard. 

I posted some of those pics on another forum, and two people immediately brushed it off as people lying for attention, with the first guy getting five upvotes. So there's that.

Just goes to show how little some people care about minorities of any kind.

[Patticus]

Quote

Wednesday we got word that Myron Ebell is his pick to lead the Environmental Protection Agency. Ebell is a well-known climate skeptic who wears these credentials proudly.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/11/09/trump_s_pick_to_lead_epa_transition_team_is_a_proud_climate_skeptic.html

Say goodbye to scientific literacy and sensible policies based on settled science, say hello to an end to the Paris Agreement on Climate Change, long-since-debunked attacks on man-made climate change and a warmer, wetter world for our descendants.

I also fear what might happen in regards to stem cell research. It has come a heck of a long way since Obama re-authorized it, but I wouldn't be surprised if the old perceptions still hold sway among those Trump is likely to employ.

And then there's the prospect of Sarah Palin obtaining a cabinet posting... good freaking god what does it take to get rid of that woman?
 

Generally, right now, as a legal and law abiding permanent resident of the United States, I am scared for my future, and the future of the country I've come to call home. Regression appears to be in vogue in Washington, I have no idea what Trump's going to do to Clinton or the country, and I am afraid.

[KHCast]

Welp. Looks like shits already getting ready to hit the fan.

[Dizcrybe]

1 minute ago, KHCast said:

Welp. Looks like shits already getting ready to hit the fan.

And we're all standing under it. The smell is gonna take years to get out.

[Kevin]

Lots of protests against Trump in various cities across the country. Shock has turned to anger now. Hopefully this sends a strong message to him that if he fucks up badly, he's going to hear an earful from the people.

[Mad Convoy]

Empathy is a big thing missing from US politics. Everybody is out for themselves. But that hasn't really benefitted anybody-- if anything, its caused a critical miscommunication that's fuelled the gaping divide between conservatives and liberals.

You see, the liberals look over to the conservatives and notice that they're backing laws to deport people, trying to lower taxes for the rich, and throwing all their hopes and prayers into Trump despite how clear it is that he's a big liar who will do more harm than good. They perceive this as conservatives only hurting themselves and others with their policies, and so try to get them to see that, no, there's a better way where everybody wins at least a little. Bringing the ignorant to knowledge, so to speak. Unfortunately, the racism inherent to deportation, the economic damage of lowering taxes for people who can pay them, and the regressivism inherent to Trump's campaign also makes them really, really mad, and they can't comprehend why somebody would hold these views unless they were some kind of monster or idiot. So rather than explain calmly why they want their policies and showing empathy and understanding to the conservatives, which would make the conservatives more likely to listen, they end up taking extreme measures like insulting conservatives-- "basket of deplorables" comes to mind, and I know I've done this too in the past (I have been trying to stop in the future)-- and rioting. And is it unreasonable to be mad or to come to those conclusions? No, of course not, racism is infuriating and mutually-destructive behaviors are a very good reason to believe that somebody isn't very smart or nice. But the fury tends to leech into the liberal's narrative and overtake it in unproductive ways, as the liberal focuses more on the outrage, the scandal, the anecdotes, than the reasoning behind it, on top of anger and fear induced exaggerations. And they don't show any empathy to the conservatives as a result of the anger, refusing to even consider the conservative's perspective or listen to sources that seem too conservative for their liking. To a conservative who isn't privy to the issues liberals have with them, that looks like the liberal is getting outraged over nothing or something very minor and then baselessly dismissing and insulting them just for being conservative or liking Republicans. A liberal, of course, isn't just getting outraged over nothing and feels reasonably upset for being dismissed-- after all, the liberal was just trying to educate the conservative on a problem he or she feels is very real and serious.

Meanwhile, the conservatives look over to the liberals and see them giving away large amount of money, resources, etc. to many ungrateful countries and people, raising taxes beyond what they feel is reasonable while claiming that it eases debt and helps everybody, then granting people benefits on the basis of their race while claiming that it helps to end racism. They don't get how the liberals can hold such illogical and self-contradictory beliefs-- why are we giving money and resources to countries that don't appreciate our help and act like they don't even want our help anyway?, why are we just giving money to poor people and expecting them to somehow recover thanks to just that?, how does making people owe more money on taxes help their money problems?, how does giving people special benefits on the basis of race stop racism?, etc. They hold no empathy towards the liberal, believing liberals to be at best naive children and at worst hypocritical idiots, and definitely in need of a smack in the face for the damage they've been told liberals have caused. As a result, they trust only their own sources for information, and due to not going to the liberals for their views, can't have their misconceptions about stuff like welfare and affirmative action corrected and thus remain ignorant, confused, and angry-- and prone to exaggerating and saying things that make sense to them but are clearly false. Liberals don't exactly reach out to them often either unless its to condemn or shame, so they end up feeling really ignored. So their opinions are logical, if inaccurate, and they are justified in feeling, well, ignored and dismissed. To a liberal, this looks like a classic case of conservative stupidity and selfishness for trying to deny help to those in need, trying to defend systemic racism, and greedily hoarding money for the rich only. A conservative, however, doesn't see it that way and thinks that he or she is just helping the liberal see the error of his or her ways, reminding the liberal that his or her ideas are not king, or perhaps celebrating what the conservative sees as good progress.

You might argue, of course, that the desire to educate indicates empathy on both sides-- after all, for the most part, conservatives and liberals genuinely want the best for the country and each other. It might be more accurate, however, to say that they got tired of explaining themselves sensibly and eventually gave up on the prospect of empathy due to their ideological differences, and turned to bitterness and anger. They now think that the only way the other side is going to learn is if they're forced to, whether by a major political scandal (which shockingly, isn't perfect), by internalized social stigmas, or by the enforcement of the law. Once the liberal starts agreeing with the conservative, then the conservative can start to empathize him or her-- and vice versa. This is all very counterproductive, and only serves to polarize US politics and encourage a climate of hostility and "dog eat dog"-isms. Yet it also feeds itself, creating a cycle of growing tensions between the two sides as they feel increasingly ignored, dismissed, infuriated, and disgusted with each other. A cycle like that would be difficult to end peacefully under normal conditions-- but the liberals and conservatives seem keen on trying to exploit it for their own ends instead, being too short-sighted to consider the harm it causes for liberals and conservatives alike long term. And now its come to bite everybody, big time, as the two groups seem about ready to explode on each other if they haven't started to explode already

Now, do keep in mind that while I do advocate for empathy, I don't think people should be free of the consequences of their actions or that nobody should ever criticize each other just because they meant well. And there are a lot of people on both sides that are real dicks and need to be called on it. Rather, what I'm saying is that empathy is important because it allows liberals and conservatives to have a well-rounded perspective on each other and be able to understand the motivations behind each others' actions, instead of assuming the worst based off of emotions and hurt feelings.

---

Ugh, really? Even as somebody who doesn't think that climate change is a bad as the media makes it out to be, I think its still really important to protect the environment. Climate change or not, pollution is really bad and can become toxic if allowed to accumulate. What we put into the Earth is what we get out of it too, so if we want the optimal air, food, etc. quality, we should strive for optimal environmental protections to match.

Not feeling confident about Ebell.

[Patticus]

Another worry: The SCOTUS is now probably going to be hard-line conservative for a solid generation, possibly more so than when Scalia was alive, if Trump makes good on his campaign promises there. That'll make the reforms and legislation that will hopefully come out of the likely liberal resurgences of the 2020s and 2030s that much harder to pass or maintain in the face of legal challenges.
 

In other news, Michael Moore, renowned documentary filmmaker and likely presidential hopeful in 2020 now that Trump is in (IIRC?), has come up with a five point plan to "restore democracy:"

Quote

Morning After To-Do List:
1. Take over the Democratic Party and return it to the people. They have failed us miserably.
2. Fire all pundits, predictors, pollsters and anyone else in the media who had a narrative they wouldn’t let go of and refused to listen to or acknowledge what was really going on. Those same bloviators will now tell us we must “heal the divide” and “come together.” They will pull more hooey like that out of their ass in the days to come. Turn them off.
3. Any Democratic member of Congress who didn’t wake up this morning ready to fight, resist and obstruct in the way Republicans did against President Obama every day for eight full years must step out of the way and let those of us who know the score lead the way in stopping the meanness and the madness that’s about to begin.
4. Everyone must stop saying they are “stunned” and “shocked”. What you mean to say is that you were in a bubble and weren’t paying attention to your fellow Americans and their despair. YEARS of being neglected by both parties, the anger and the need for revenge against the system only grew. Along came a TV star they liked whose plan was to destroy both parties and tell them all “You’re fired!” Trump’s victory is no surprise. He was never a joke. Treating him as one only strengthened him. He is both a creature and a creation of the media and the media will never own that.
5. You must say this sentence to everyone you meet today: “HILLARY CLINTON WON THE POPULAR VOTE!” The MAJORITY of our fellow Americans preferred Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump. Period. Fact. If you woke up this morning thinking you live in an effed-up country, you don’t. The majority of your fellow Americans wanted Hillary, not Trump. The only reason he’s president is because of an arcane, insane 18th-century idea called the Electoral College. Until we change that, we’ll continue to have presidents we didn’t elect and didn’t want. You live in a country where a majority of its citizens have said they believe there’s climate change, they believe women should be paid the same as men, they want a debt-free college education, they don’t want us invading countries, they want a raise in the minimum wage and they want a single-payer true universal health care system. None of that has changed. We live in a country where the majority agree with the “liberal” position. We just lack the liberal leadership to make that happen (see: #1 above).

Let’s try to get this all done by noon today.
— Michael Moore

I have no idea if it can or will be put to work, or even if it's the best course of action, but as a soothing balm on the wounds of 9/11 (11/9 for you crazy United Statesters) it sure as hell makes me feel a little bit better. The Democratic Party needs new leadership, it needs to bounce back quickly and without the kinds of rifts we saw open up in the GOP lately, and its members from the lowest ballot to the highest ticket should spend the next four years fighting tooth and nail against Trump's agenda.

Democrats have won battles against incumbent Republicans with House dominance before, by turning public opinion sharply against them, and so they should be able to do it again - so long as they pick the right battles to fight.

[Meta77]

All isolated incidents. I live around nearly all white people in my area. Literally next to two cops at that. And they are still as nice as anything. Yea you will have some bigots out there but honestly all that oh lord this is horrible *tear drops*. Just tell them off and move on. Honestly ive been called a N***** by black people 7x as much as ive ever had someone white. If you see someone harassing someone help them but im not going to go out my way to browse the web for people offended.  By year end things will blow over. People act as if noting but white people voted for trump *i myself put goku down* but do young people know that blacks and Hispanics actually did vote for the man regardless of what the media may say??

[Nepenthe]

Been thinking about what Dems could do as far as messaging is concerned in the future. A problem I think I've talked about earlier is the abandonment of rural whites. Both parties are responsible because the hole left by shipping manufacturing jobs overseas is an increasingly unsolvable issue, meaning making promises is risky. The issue however is that Dems focused too hard on the social conservatism that breeds in places like this and with which demagogues like Trump exploit, alienating an already ostracized demographic.

However, the question of how do Dems appeal to this group without becoming seemingly tolerant of racism and thus abandoning social progressiveness crops up, because conservative culture and the poor white demographic are historically intertwined. I think the answer would've been to just simultaneously run both messages and be inclusive: Liken poor whites to poor people of color and immigrants, while continuing to stand firm on anti-racism. By including these people into the fold of social justice through comparison with minorities and identifying a potential source of their issues (people like Trump), you are automatically excluding them from the labeling of being a deplorable, even if they do hold racist views. Because you're talking to them about the issues they're discussing.

In effect, Bernie and Hillary were two sides of the same coin. Bernie faced a similar problem with black people as Hillary did with whites during the primary, which is why I don't think he would've won either. When you say that you can solve racism by simply redistributing wealth, as if being wealthy suddenly made white people respect black people, you turn black people off and we're not likely to show up for you.

[KHCast]

@Meta77 You'd be surprised how many people have defended the incidents. I need to keep pointing to the civil rights don't I? Many of the big incidents could all have been categorized as isolated, but that doesn't mean shit shouldn't be done to stomp that flame out before it can grow. If not, it only validates and encourages behavior like that. Even if some of those were fake, it still creates a dangerous and hostile dialogue. Seriously this "aw boo hoo, grow up" attitude towards people that potentially are facing shit you aren't and can't comprehend needs to get the hell out 

[Mad Convoy]

4 minutes ago, KHCast said:

You'd be surprised how many people have defended the incidents. I need to keep pointing to the civil rights don't I? Many of the big incidents could all have been categorized as isolated, but that doesn't mean shit shouldn't be done to stomp that flame out before it can grow. If not, it only validates and encourages behavior like that. Even if some of those were fake, it still creates a dangerous and hostile dialogue. Seriously this "aw boo hoo, grow up" attitude towards people that potentially are facing shit you aren't and can't comprehend needs to get the hell out 

Food for thought: If these are just isolated incidents, why do they keep happening?

I am beyond frustrated right now for the American people. As Michael Moore emphasized, most people aren't like this, yet the media is still letting the bigots write the narrative here and dominate the public sphere. Won't even moderate their comments section properly. Disgusting.

[Agie]

It really is. I wanna fight this any way I can. Any ideas?

[Patticus]

Politico has posted a somewhat uplifting article, which pertains to reasons for Democrats and liberals alike to have hope and, most importantly stay in the fight despite yesterday's loss:

Quote

There are not enough superlatives to describe the disorientation and despair in Liberal America right now. The Ronald Reagan landslides were confounding. The ideological evisceration of Michael Dukakis was sobering. The Bush v. Gore loss was infuriating, and the subsequent “swiftboating” of John Kerry seemed to drop liberals to rock bottom … only to be briefly buoyed that two terms of President Barack Obama meant that a new progressive dawn would define the 21st century.

Now Donald Trump’s popular vote-minority victory combines all the pain of those past electoral losses into one existential gut punch for the American left.

But the Obama presidency should not be seen as a fluke, and the left need not presume that all is lost. Based on Tuesday’s election, as unlikely as it may seem, here are five reasons to hope that brighter days await the Democratic Party and the progressive movement, if they remain focused.

1. Most Americans Did Not Want Donald Trump to be President

Spoiler

Trump ran second in the popular vote at 47.5 percent as of Wednesday morning, a number that actually could tick down as the last votes trickle in. Moreover, the exit polls found 60 percent of voters held an “unfavorable” opinion of Trump. About one in five of his own voters viewed him as unqualified and lacking the temperament to be president. Most of America is not happy this morning.

Granted, he won “100 percent of the presidency,” as George Will said 16 years ago when George W. Bush won with a similar amount while losing the popular vote, and Trump can pursue his agenda without having earned a mandate. But liberals can press on knowing that a majority of the country voted against Trump’s platform, and another chunk had to hold their noses while voting for him.

After the 1992 election and Bill Clinton’s plurality victory, Republican Senate minority leader Bob Dole ungraciously congratulated him by saying: “57 percent of the Americans who voted in the presidential election voted against Bill Clinton, and I intend to represent that majority on the floor of the U.S. Senate.” Democrats may not choose to be so blunt, but that fighting spirit cramped Clinton’s legislative agenda and helped Dole’s party take the Congress two years later.

2. Most Americans Did Not Support Trump’s Signature Proposal

Spoiler

Despite running on a crackdown against illegal immigration, only 25 percent of voters in the exit polls support deportation of undocumented immigrants, while 70 percent support legalization. And only 41 percent support a border wall, versus 54 percent who oppose.

Other questions show a nation evenly divided ideologically. Exit polls depicted an electorate 26 percent of which was liberal, 39 percent moderate (a group that actually leaned left, as Clinton won them, 52-41) and 35 percent conservative. Forty-eight percent thought Obamacare was either “about right” or “didn’t go far enough,” while 47 percent said it “went too far.” Forty-five percent want the next president to “continue Barack Obama’s policies” or “be more liberal,” and 48 percent want the next president to be more conservative. The battles over the ideological direction of the nation are far from lost.

And wins with ballot initiatives at the state level—including minimum wage increases in four states, gun restrictions in California and defeat of an anti-solar power measure in Florida—show that progressives still can triumph in the battle of ideas. Trump has not won the ideological argument.

3. Democrats Have Throttled a Republican President Before

Spoiler

After George W. Bush finally won a popular-vote majority in 2004, regaining full Republican control of Congress in the process, he swaggered back to Washington and said, “I earned capital in this campaign, political capital, and now I intend to spend it.” He pledged to add private accounts to Social Security and simplify the tax code.

He failed. Social Security reform quickly hit a brick wall. Progressive activists turned public opinion against the measure buttressing a united Democratic opposition that proved stronger than its reduced numbers might have suggested. His political capital sapped, Bush’s pleas to make his temporary tax cuts permanent also went unanswered, allowing Obama to repeal the heart of his tax cuts at the end of 2012. Republicans lost control of Congress in 2006, and Bush’s second term was bereft of significant legislative wins.

The lesson? When you organize and pick the right battles, it doesn’t matter if you control the White House or Congress. A majority of public opinion can mean more than a majority in Congress.

4. The Presidential Election Pendulum Can Swing Fast

Spoiler

In 1976, Jimmy Carter, an outsider populist with little governing experience, seemed to usher in a new Democratic Era after the Nixon-Ford years. But his popularity tanked thanks to his ill-fated crusade for energy independence, runaway inflation and the protracted Iran hostage crisis. Carter, despite banking several underappreciated policy wins, proved to be, politically speaking, a temporary four-year road bump en route to a multi-decade conservative era personified by Ronald Reagan, who trounced Carter in 1980.

Less well-remembered is the brief presidency of Benjamin Harrison, who defeated incumbent President Grover Cleveland in 1888. Like Trump, Harrison lost the popular vote, winning only 47.8 percent. Like Trump, he campaigned on protectionist trade policies. But when Harrison put those policies into effect, there was public backlash against the higher prices that resulted from them. (He was also seen as too close to banks and callous about rising labor strife, which fed the creation of a new Populist Party that siphoned off Republican votes.) Cleveland came roaring back in 1892, picking up five more states and defeating Harrison by 3 percentage points nationally.

Similarly, in 1964, some thought that the drubbing of Barry Goldwater in the presidential election would bury the Republican Party and with it American conservatism. But four years later, Richard Nixon seized the White House, slamming the brakes on Great Society liberalism.

And of course, the election of Barack Obama came with the hope he would be the second coming of FDR, sparking a liberal political realignment for a generation. And despite Trump’s victory, that hope is not yet dashed, especially because…

5. Winning In 2020 Is More Important Than Winning In 2016

Spoiler

No one wishes for the global economy to crumble or for the world to be embroiled in deadly international crises. But it’s not that hard to imagine a Trump presidency going off the rails without any Democratic assistance. And that would cause enormous political consequences.

If Trump manages to drag down the entire Republican Party with him over the next four years, Democrats might be able to snag the biggest political prize of all in the 2020 elections: majority control of state legislative chambers — just in time for the congressional redistricting process that will follow the 2020 Census.

That would give Democrats the ability to redraw many of the congressional district lines, undo Republican gerrymandering efforts that have delivered the GOP a House majority even while Democratic House candidates nationally earn more votes. If a Trump-fueled GOP collapse leads to full control the federal executive and legislative branches, a lasting Democratic realignment may still be upon us.

None of that should make liberals sanguine about the potential for lunatic Supreme Court appointments, a freeze on crucial efforts to arrest global warming, a cruel immigration crackdown, a rise in “alt-right”-fueled racism and sexism, as well as other unforeseen horrors. But with unity of purpose, strategic smarts and tenacious organizing, the damage of a Trump presidency can be mitigated, and the Democratic Party’s political fortunes may rapidly turn.

Liberals lost a big one yesterday, all the more painful because it was one that they could have won. But only if they abandon the field will they guarantee more losses in the future.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/11/2016-election-good-progress-hope-liberals-progressives-democrats-214444

I honestly didn't expect a shot in the arm like that so soon after that stinging defeat, but they're right, and maybe things aren't quite as bleak as they felt in the wee hours of the 9th.

I don't know how Democratic politicians, organizers, rank and file members and others nationwide are reacting to the election defeat (beyond a few large protests), but they all ought to be reading (or writing) articles like this one and gearing up for a metaphorical fight. Democrats have fought back very effectively before, as have Republicans, and public opinion can be easily swayed. But it's most important for liberals not to give up, to make 2018 and 2020 major priorities, and to pick their battles wisely.

If there's some kind of get out the vote general election-style campaign rally strategy that can fire up the base during the midterms, I think that that should be something the Democrats ought to be doing.
 

@Noelgilvie, I'm pretty sure you called 2020 as being the more important election several months back, didn't you?
 

Edit: I just found out that Elizabeth Warren is two years Hillary Clinton's junior, and Clinton is one or two years Trump's junior. Perhaps, just perhaps, she's not too old to run in 2020 after all, given that by then she'll be as old as Trump is now.

[Meta77]

39 minutes ago, KHCast said:

@Meta77 You'd be surprised how many people have defended the incidents. I need to keep pointing to the civil rights don't I? Many of the big incidents could all have been categorized as isolated, but that doesn't mean shit shouldn't be done to stomp that flame out before it can grow. If not, it only validates and encourages behavior like that. Even if some of those were fake, it still creates a dangerous and hostile dialogue. Seriously this "aw boo hoo, grow up" attitude towards people that potentially are facing shit you aren't and can't comprehend needs to get the hell out 

You show me people being hung up in trees. Ran down in the street, windows broke out, kids blown up in churches, you know the stuff my grandfather and his father, and his had to live through and deal with, where stores sold postcards of lynched people in trees with families eating around the body hanging as if it were all good. Then, then id get that attitude as you say "out" until then im free to have a option on all this just as you are just cause someone was called a mean name and the person is to afraid to speak up.

[Strickerx5]

20 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

You show me people being hung up in trees. Ran down in the street, windows broke out, kids blown up in churches, you know the stuff my grandfather and his father, and his had to live through and deal with, where stores sold postcards of lynched people in trees with families eating around the body hanging as if it were all good. Then, then id get that attitude as you say "out" until then im free to have a option on all this just as you are just cause someone was called a mean name and the person is to afraid to speak up.

Wowowo wait, hold up a second. Are you literally calling for some of the most hate filled, horrific acts ever committed in this country just for his point to have meaning. Please tell me I'm reading this incorrectly. Is this literally where we are in terms of people being oblivious that this stuff can happen and that we shouldn't just blow it off as false claims?

You can have an opinion but come, the fuck, on man.

[Baconjack]

17 hours ago, Patticus said:

Hispanic/minority appeal? Check!
Young and vital? Check!
Charismatic? Check! ... I think?
Warren/Sanders camp appeal? Check!
No scandals? Check! (For now!)
Hails from a big red state turning increasingly purple via demographic change? Check!
 

I don't know who will be the 2020 nominee, I mean they may not even want to run, or there may be even better candidates just over the horizon... but they really do look like by far the best choices, moving forward.

That would be interesting having Texas as a swing state in the future. If the Republicans lost Texas to the Democrats, that would give them a huge advantage.

[KHCast]

Sarah Palin is being considered for the cabinet. That's...um no thank you?

[Cobalt_Bolt]

The atmosphere at my workplace was rather dour as graveyard shift was starting up. The workers that fall under the categories that Trump deems unacceptable were close to tears or had rage. What I did was provide a shoulder for them to cry on and ear to listen to because it was the right thing for me to do. I cried alongside them because my grandparents were for equal rights and freedoms before the civil rights movement occurred just to have a madman and his cronies strip it all away.

[Tani Coyote]

2 hours ago, Patticus said:

@Noelgilvie, I'm pretty sure you called 2020 as being the more important election several months back, didn't you?

Indeed. Admittedly it was not all my own idea, as I read articles on the matter, but yes.

The trend is pretty clear that short of an absurd Party fracture on the opposition's part, it is extremely difficult to win more than 3 terms. Clinton, had she won, probably would have lost in 2020. On the other hand, giving the GOP the 2016 White House opens the chance to win not just 2020, but 2024. It really all goes back to the fact the Presidency is the most visible office, and is frequently given God-like capabilities in the American subconscious, even though this is obviously false.

Between the midterms, redistricting, and the strong likelihood of new judicial openings in those 8 years, there was ultimately a silver lining to Trump's victory.

It will be a crappy two years at minimum, but we can hope that the diverging elements within the GOP and the insurgent Democratic Senators mitigate the damage. The GOP gets 2 years of free reign, but if the cards are played right, the Democrats could get 10 in exchange. Trump might undo Obama's legacy, but we could just as swiftly reinstate it once he's gone.

Quote

Edit: I just found out that Elizabeth Warren is two years Hillary Clinton's junior, and Clinton is one or two years Trump's junior. Perhaps, just perhaps, she's not too old to run in 2020 after all, given that by then she'll be as old as Trump is now.

We can only pray.

On the other hand, this country still leans pretty right. She'd be better off being like Sanders and working to keep the Party from drifting further right more than being a President in her own right.

But hey, she can always go for VP or some other office.

[Killtank]

I'd be absolutely thrilled at the prospect of voting for Elizabeth Warren. I adore that woman. Honestly, I would have been more enthused this year if she had run rather than Hillary. I'd canvas for her without any hesitation. I hope she's among the Democratic vanguard come 2020. 

[Tani Coyote]

5 minutes ago, Killtank said:

I'd be absolutely thrilled at the prospect of voting for Elizabeth Warren. I adore that woman. Honestly, I would have been more enthused this year if she had run rather than Hillary. I'd canvas for her without any hesitation. I hope she's among the Democratic vanguard come 2020. 

I have no doubt Sanders and Warren are going to be the left-wing anchor of the Party for a while, especially now that Bernie's shown progressive ideas aren't fringe.

I just hope there are some fresh proteges ready to carry on the fight, because they're not getting any younger.

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

Lots of protests against Trump in various cities across the country. Shock has turned to anger now. Hopefully this sends a strong message to him that if he fucks up badly, he's going to hear an earful from the people.

What are they trying to accomplish. The protests are a waste of time. Trump and co. don't care, he's still gonna be president regardless.

But I mean if Clinton won anyway, we would ALSO have seen the protests as well.

Has these guys seen Clinton's speech? This is not what she wanted. They are going against her wishes. Shame.

Last thing I want to mention is that they are protesting in the stupid areas. They are protesting in areas that are voted BLUE. While annoying the community around them. This is pathetic.