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The General American Politics Thread


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1 minute ago, Conando said:

It's really too late to stop this now. People need to focus on getting Trump to listen to them. The other focus is on revamping the electoral college for next time.

Trump isn't going to listen to people. And we're not about to revamp the electoral college in any reasonable amount of time either. Only thing to do now is to actually show up for midterms for once, which I have no faith in progressives to do anyway.

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If screen caps of stories on Twitter didn't convince you, you're gonna love this.

Just...wow, how do people still downplay this and say there's nothing to worry about?

 

As for the electorate thing, my hope is that they attempt, but don't succeed. That would in turn like Convoy said send a clear message of how divided this decision is, and be a wake up call to trump that he'd better do something soon to sway those against and for him

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Yeah...I mean I show up for every election, but I live in Massachusetts so it's not really relevant. I wish people in the states that actually have an influence would give more of a shit.

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If you have no faith going in, then create that faith from scratch.

 

The rallies going on right now show that there is opposition. Now the goal is to redirect that resolve to the voter registers and into the booths.

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Progressives have shit turnout in the midterms- like, even shittier than what happened on Tuesday- and most of the rallies going on are in states that were blue to begin with. Ain't shit happening down where I am in Georgia except people cordially ignoring the elephant in the room. My side couldn't even bother to vote against the worst case scenario because "I'm just not inspired." Fuck that. I will vote in midterms from now on, and I will advocate others do so, but I don't trust progressives to get things done anymore. Either show up and put your money where your mouth is or keep your complaints to yourself.

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Can I just say something? The white middle class men that said they went with trump because "Washington is ignoring us and Hilary was too" do those people like, not have any minority friends? Cause this comes off like a fairly new issue for them in comparison to other people, yet they throw a fit and get a president that will help them in a heartbeat. I mean damn, really hits home the whole, "doesn't matter until it effects white people" idea, and even then, the fix doesn't do shit for minorities.

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There is some hope. I think Trump has the potential for a long series of wake-up calls, tbh. I think part of the reason that he's stopped being so arrogant after being elected is that the fact that he's actually won hit him full-force and he's trying to recuperate and prepare as much as we are. I wonder if his opinion of Russia and world politics as a whole is going to change once he stops hearing only Putin's side of the story and gets access to deeply guarded US intelligence-- the stuff that the media and pre-presidential briefings won't cover. Obama is also a convincing speaker-- maybe he'll be able to talk Trump into keeping some things or not following through on some promises (though if Trump isn't willing to listen he won't be effective.. And the population has lashed out on a level I've never seen before. The only two things that could possibly motivate Trump to take the opportunity realize that he needs different policies is his ego, as he would want history to view him as well as he views himself, and his businesses, which could suffer even more than usual from his own economic policies, unpopularity, and protests against him. And the caveat to that is his ego and businesses could just as easily motivate him to not listen whatsoever to anybody, as his ego would convince him that he can do no wrong and that he is the smartest guy in the government, and on top of that he may tailor his policies to favor his businesses at the expense of everybody else. Another hope is that the US system makes it very difficult to establish a dictatorship, as the founding fathers knew from experience the consequences of an absolute ruler and put in lots of checks and balances to limit power. Most notably, the military has the constitutional right to disobey any command that is against the law without question, and the military does not support him at all. Congress also isn't complete for him. And of course, there's the hope that progressives will get their act together and unite against Trump.

My big worry right now is his supporters. They're all riled up and are now trying to seriously injure or even kill people. He's doing fuck-all about it, per expectations, and that likely won't change when he's in the Oval Office.

Yeah, it is super annoying when progressives don't band together to do the right thing. We all want to stop marginalization in some form and should work together instead of squabbling over minor things. I also dislike how they tend to pick unproductive methods of protest, like violence and flag burning (a hat symbol). Violence and hate just make it easier for bigots to dismiss their concerns over Trump supporters' violence (indeed, my dad brought up just that in response to my worries over Trump supporter violence as a reason to believe that it isn't that bad and would have happened anyway). Besides, unless you're defending yourself or somebody else from attack and have no other options in the case of violence, violence and hate are not the answer to brutality-- the people who claim to be against brutality should know that!

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13 hours ago, Solkia said:

Capture.PNG

It doesn't change it being good news but he did this about a month ago. 

Wait what?! Who's fucking tax payer money is paying for this shit? Not mines bitch, I've got a literal kid to take care of, I can't being paying to get rid of one!

 

No this uncouth ass mother fucker did not just do that!

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Surprise surprise, Roe v. Wade has been a thing for 40 years. Your tax dollars were already going to women's health services.

You should probably advocate for a SC revisit of the issue. Or move. Either or.

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17 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

Surprise surprise, Roe v. Wade has been a thing for 40 years. Your tax dollars were already going to women's health services.

You should probably advocate for a SC revisit of the issue. Or move. Either or.

Already know this, but now, apparently it can't be changed because Obama is a selfish ass.

 

I would protest...but I'm black and would more than likely get shot...if shit turns violent

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Good news?

Democratic U.S. Senator Elizabeth Warren threw down the gauntlet to Republican President-elect Donald Trump on Thursday, saying in a fiery speech that her party will fight him on social issues and to uphold financial regulation.

Battling bigotry is the first job for Democrats after the election, she said.

“We will fight back against attacks on Latinos, African Americans, women, Muslims, immigrants, disabled Americans – on anyone,” said Warren, who sparred frequently over Twitter with Trump and criticized him on the campaign trail in the weeks leading up to Tuesday’s election. “Whether Donald Trump sits in a glass tower or sits in the White House, we will not give an inch on this, not now, not ever.”

In a speech to the AFL-CIO labor federation, Warren also said Democrats will fight “every step of the way” against attempts to loosen financial regulation, “gut” the Dodd-Frank Wall Street reform law and eliminate the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.

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Sounds like he did the Planned Parenthood thing with an Executive Order.

Ergo, Trump can reverse it. Nothing permanent about it. In fact, he's campaigning on reversing a bunch of Obama orders day one.

1 hour ago, Mightyray said:

This is honestly the most terrifying thing about Trump. We really don't know what he actually believes or will do. Yeah he has crappy views on women, that's a given, but so do a good deal of politicians. As for pretty much everything else, we're unsure if he really believes what he says or was just being a demagogue.

One hell of a conjob, you might say?

Juan Carlos, King of Spain, was a dictator's yes man for years. After being chosen as the dictator's successor, he turned Spain into a democracy. He acted the part of fascist for years. He was a hero willing to play the part of villain.

Let's jump to a familiar face on the other side of the good-evil spectrum. Adolf Hitler, the demagogue who frothed at the mouth about how terrible the Jews were, was quite happy to place the Jewish doctor who cared for his dying mother under state protection and let him leave the country. He was still evil, of course (as he let the Holocaust happen), but this implies his racism might not have been quite as deep as it outwardly appeared (the Nazi ideology was that Jews were a genetic group and inherently evil, so this makes Hitler's opinion of the doctor inconsistent); he was just willing to cater to whatever bigoted ideology he had to if it meant being in power.

In all likelihood, Trump is fairly right-wing and will cause some damage to this country; the odds of him being a great actor like Juan Carlos are slim. We just don't know how much of his campaign was him doing what he does best - entertaining - and how much of it was legitimate ideology. This is, after all, the same man who has convinced people of his business genius when the record is clear he is awful at it. We all call him stupid, but it seems to me he knows how to work people (something conservatives are generally better at than liberals to be quite honest). The way he flip flops on issues besides immigration and jobs seems to indicate he doesn't really have an opinion on them and might have just been pandering.

Here's some real food for thought: Trump has repeatedly shown that he doesn't give a damn about decorum. So why was he so eager to act Presidential upon winning? His victory speech was actually fairly nice with its talk of bipartisan effort and reconciliation. Yes, there's the whole "working with people" bit, but his Party has majorities in both chambers and he won in spite of all the hateful bile he's said. I think it goes without saying very few on the opposite side are eager to work with him. So why change his tone all of a sudden?

33 minutes ago, WakanoBaka said:

Wait what?! Who's fucking tax payer money is paying for this shit? Not mines bitch, I've got a literal kid to take care of, I can't being paying to get rid of one!

No this uncouth ass mother fucker did not just do that!

Friendly reminder that abortion is a very small portion of Planned Parenthood's services.

In terms of contraception, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. By paying to give people access to birth control, condoms, etc. you are preventing the birth of a child that quite possibly could end up dependent on welfare. Would you rather pay a few tax dollars to give the poor sexual protection, or a lot more to feed, house, and provide healthcare and education to them?

This just makes me think how the GOP is a headscratcher on family planning. They hate welfare dependency, sexual irresponsibility, etc. but don't want to fork over a fraction of the money to keep people from having families they're not ready to support. Like what?

1 hour ago, KHCast said:

Can I just say something? The white middle class men that said they went with trump because "Washington is ignoring us and Hilary was too" do those people like, not have any minority friends? Cause this comes off like a fairly new issue for them in comparison to other people, yet they throw a fit and get a president that will help them in a heartbeat. I mean damn, really hits home the whole, "doesn't matter until it effects white people" idea, and even then, the fix doesn't do shit for minorities.

When you consider how little money well off people give to charity or even friends and family as a percentage, this isn't surprising.

Pretty much everybody is out for themselves at the end of the day. Plan accordingly.

There's also the cognitive dissonance. Whenever people are friendly with a non-white person, that person is an "exception" and so is welcome in their social circle. It never occurs to bigoted people that maybe their bigotry is ill-founded.

7 hours ago, KHCast said:

You guys think there's a small change that some of the individual electoral voters in December will leave trump for Hilary? I've heard that there's one dude apparently that said he will for sure. I mean its unprecedented and rare, but you never know. With this election anything can and has happened 

It doesn't help the case for Trump electors that the states that went for Trump might have been won with voter suppression.

A strong case can be made that the voter ID laws in Michigan and Wisconsin gave him those states. Florida's a weaker case (you'd have to close a gap of about 120,000 votes), but if you could prove that... bam. Trump is an illegitimate President.

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2 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Not wanting men to fuck over women, yep, totally fucking selfish of the man.

 

By fucking over someone else? Tell me how tricking a person to help another not immoral?

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@CD Sanic Honestly this potentially could just come off like a challenge to Trump and egg him to attempt to screw over minorities. I mean. It's trump. He's easily goaded into situations. All you need to do is call the man a chicken, and boom, he'll do whatever it is you said he can't 

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11 minutes ago, WakanoBaka said:

Already know this, but now, apparently it can't be changed because Obama is a selfish ass.

Do you understand what services Planned Parenthood provides? Here's a hint: Only 3% of all its health services are abortion. 97% are not. Without it, a fuck ton of women would have little or no access to the kinds of services it offers, and the health of women nationwide would more than likely suffer.

 And no, you are not being fucked over by it or the funding it receives. Why do you believe you are?

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8 minutes ago, Noelgilvie said:

Friendly reminder that abortion is a very small portion of Planned Parenthood's services.

In terms of contraception, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. By paying to give people access to birth control, condoms, etc. you are preventing the birth of a child that quite possibly could end up dependent on welfare. Would you rather pay a few tax dollars to give the poor sexual protection, or a lot more to feed, house, and provide healthcare and education to them?

Seem to be forgetting that tax payers pay for the roads, the vacations we know Trump is gonna take, and all other crap. Last thing I'd like to pay for is somebodies fuck up. End of story. I'd rather give that two cents to my kid so she can go to college.

3 minutes ago, Patticus said:

Do you understand what services Planned Parenthood provides? Here's a hint: Only 3% of all its health services are abortion. 97% are not. Without it, a fuck ton of women would have little or no access to the kinds of services it offers.

Not 3% I'm willing to pay. And the 97% might just at least be half of stuff I also don't want to pay for.

 

3 minutes ago, Patticus said:

And no, you are not being fucked over by it or the funding it receives. Why do you believe you are?

I'm getting fucked over by the amount of women who treat abortions like birth control, pop one every night.

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Oh my god, are you educated on women's health and abortion statistics lol? Actually, not many women treat abortions like some lint trap that needs to be cleaned every other day 

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6 minutes ago, WakanoBaka said:

Seem to be forgetting that tax payers pay for the roads, the vacations we know Trump is gonna take, and all other crap. Last thing I'd like to pay for is somebodies fuck up. End of story. I'd rather give that two cents to my kid so she can go to college.

Think of taxes as insurance rather than theft.

You don't always benefit from the programs they prop up, but you never know when you'll end up needing them. Don't buy into the myth that the only way to go for you is up.

"Somebody's fuck up." This is incredibly Social Darwinist. A lot of people are ignorant about how sex works, for example, so they didn't just embrace the risk of pregnancy. Then there's the fact that assuming the parent is poor, that child is now going to be a burden on both them and social services. Doesn't it make more sense to prevent the birth, to save you the money? You pay a little now to avoid paying a huge amount more later. This isn't factoring in the emotional and eventual health costs of being an unwanted child.

Unless your goal of course is to just let the poor starve for making mistakes, but I think we all know how I feel on that.

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1 minute ago, KHCast said:

Oh my god, are you educated on women's health and abortion statistics lol?

My point seems to be going over your head by lightyears.
 

Tax payer money. That's the point.

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4 minutes ago, WakanoBaka said:

My point seems to be going over your head by lightyears.
 

Tax payer money. That's the point.

Taxpayer money being spent more efficiently.

Taxpayer-provided contraception and abortion are going to be most useful to poorer parents. When we don't help them avoid having children, society will have to pay the costs, either through welfare or theft (people steal to provide for their families all the time).

If your concern is taxpayer money being wasted, let's be frank here. The real waste is this diehard resistance to family planning. Raising a child is expensive. A hell of a lot more expensive than pills, condoms, or an abortion procedure.

Here's an even better thing. If we provide contraception? There will be no abortion for those same people (barring the occasional failure), because there are no longer any pregnancies to abort.

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1 minute ago, Noelgilvie said:

Think of taxes as insurance rather than theft.

You don't always benefit from the programs they prop up, but you never know when you'll end up needing them.

'you don't always' and 'you never know '

Are phrases and possibilities that could also very well work against me.

I as a male in America don't need such benefits. By the time my kid grows up I'll be dead.

1 minute ago, Noelgilvie said:

"Somebody's fuck up." This is incredibly Social Darwinist. A lot of people are ignorant about how sex works, for example, so they didn't just embrace the risk of pregnancy. Then there's the fact that assuming the parent is poor, that child is now going to be a burden on both them and social services. Doesn't it make more sense to prevent the birth, to save you the money?

Unless your goal of course is to just let the poor starve, but I think we all know how I feel on that.

So you are saying rape and stuff like that?

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14 minutes ago, WakanoBaka said:

Seem to be forgetting that tax payers pay for the roads, the vacations we know Trump is gonna take, and all other crap. Last thing I'd like to pay for is somebodies fuck up. End of story. I'd rather give that two cents to my kid so she can go to college.

You already do, through the various insurance premiums you're paying, and soon we'll all be paying for that accursed useless border wall - that comes with a $15-25bn price tag, not including staffing and maintenance costs. That's 2900-3900% more than PP's funding, and a great big fuck up all its own, if it gets built in its entirety. I'll bet there are a ton of mistakes that we all pay for on the regular.

14 minutes ago, WakanoBaka said:

Not 3% I'm willing to pay.

I'm curious now: On average, how much of each of our taxes goes toward funding Planned Parenthood? Annually, they receive about $528.4m in funding, from Medicaid and the Title X program that serves the health needs of the poor.

Quote

I'm getting fucked over by the amount of women who treat abortions like birth control, pop one every night.

While I'm sure that there are some women who are like that, you have to understand that most women are not, and it's not fair to tar them all with that brush.

The vast majority of PP services are focused on STDs/STIs, and contraception. These are vital to prevent the health of women nationwide from deteriorating, and preventing unwanted pregnancies that ruin the lives of mother and child alike.

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8 minutes ago, WakanoBaka said:

My point seems to be going over your head by lightyears.
 

Tax payer money. That's the point.

I'm getting fucked over by the amount of women who treat abortions like birth control, pop one every night.

Nope. You seem to act like its a larger problem that it actually is

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