The General American Politics Thread

[Stacy]

Not to mention Congress has its far share of racists and old farts which hinder Obama to push things.

[-Robin-]

GOP Problem: Their voters are "white, aging and dying off."

Washington (CNN) -- When presumptive Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney appears before Latino small-business owners in Washington on Wednesday, he'll address a group whose explosive birth rates foreshadow a seismic political shift in GOP strongholds in the Deep South and Southwest.

"The Republicans' problem is their voters are white, aging and dying off," said David Bositis, a senior research associate at the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies, who studies minority political engagement.

"There will come a time when they suffer catastrophic losses with the realization of the population changes."

Over the next several generations, the wave of minority voters -- who, according to U.S. Census figures released this week, now represent more than half of the nation's population born in the past year -- will become more of a power base in places like Alabama, Mississippi and Georgia. That hold will extend across the Southwest all the way to California, experts say.

The coming political revolution could result in a massive changing of the guard on nearly every level of government, potential cultural clashes, and the type of political alliances that are now considered rare.

Offspring of immigrant farm workers

In Georgia, those rumblings are already being felt.

It is a state that depends heavily on immigrant labor to pick peaches and peanuts and work in poultry plants. So when Georgia -- like its Southern sister states of Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, Tennessee and South Carolina -- passed a tough anti-immigration bill that also penalizes businesses, Hispanic groups and farmers alike pushed back.

"This election cycle Latinos in Georgia are upset about (the law)," said Jerry Gonzalez, executive director of GALEO, a nonprofit and nonpartisan group geared toward Georgia's growing Latino population. "That's going to spur more galvanization than we've ever seen before."

According to the Pew Hispanic Center, Southeastern states such as Alabama, Arkansas, Kentucky, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina and Tennessee boast some of the greatest percentage increases in Latino population growth. They are also states where the percentage of Hispanics roughly doubled.

And, according to Pew, the Latino population boom helped Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Nevada, South Carolina, Texas, Utah and Washington net additional congressional seats.

Though Georgia's Latino population has mushroomed over the past ten years, according to Pew, roughly 23% of that group is eligible to vote, compared to roughly 76.2% of whites and just over 69% of African-Americans.

Still, activists like Gonzalez are hopeful that lawmakers will see the trends and recognize "Latinos merit a seat at the table as well."

So far, Republican efforts to offer Latinos a place at the table have fallen short.

The nation's Hispanics tend to vote Democratic, and overwhelmingly supported Barack Obama and Joe Biden in 2008.

Romney in particular has stumbled with this critical voting bloc, after his comments suggesting that making the economic landscape tough for illegal immigrants will force them to "self deport."

Trying to convince a growing population

Even Republican Hispanic lawmakers, such as Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Florida, have urged the GOP to soften its language when discussing immigration and such proposals as the House-passed version of the Violence Against Women Act, which killed expanded coverage for illegal immigrants and Native Americans who are victims of domestic abuse, and the failed DREAM Act, which would have given U.S. residency to immigrant kids with high school diplomas.

The GOP is trying to clean up its image with Hispanic voters, with an eye toward the demographic's looming political clout.

Romney is slated to speak at the Latino Coalition's Annual Economic Summit in Washington on Wednesday. Last week, his campaign released "Dia Uno," a Spanish-language version of an ad underscoring Romney's mission for the first day he assumes the presidency.

If Republicans continue to struggle to appeal to Latino voters, Spanish-language ads may not stave off a change that experts like Bositis see coming in the not too distant future, when states such as Georgia go purple and eventually blue.

"There'll be a tipping point where you've got the Republicans in charge, but you'll get to the point when the population becomes minority," Bositis said. "When that happens the statewide offices will fall. Republican governors will fall. Things will change."

This announcement on birth rates "should be a wake-up call to everyone running for political office from this day forward," said Lionel Sosa, a veteran Latino GOP strategist who has helped advise candidates since 1980. "Latinos should no longer be considered minorities. In many crucial electoral states, this 'former minority' is fast becoming the deciding vote. The candidate who reaches out most effectively will win their support."

"Token efforts, such as tamale parties, will no longer work. Winning will require more than outreach. It will require inclusion," Sosa said. "Latinos, African-Americans and people of other races must be represented in the important decision-making strategies of any given campaign, whether it be for a Democrat or Republican."

[Mono]

The youth of today are not as racist, xenophobic, homophobic etc these days. The far right will not exist in 20 years,

Like me, my sig points out that I'm a socialist. I think we may see a movement like that in the future.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Mono

[Patticus]

The youth of today are not as racist, xenophobic, homophobic etc these days. The far right will not exist in 20 years,

Like me, my sig points out that I'm a socialist. I think we may see a movement like that in the future.

The far right will always exist, however once the Baby Boomers die off it will probably shrink. It won't dissipate entirely, but it'll return to more normal levels and cease to be in the mainstream, as the Republican Party remakes itself to appeal to the Hispanic voting bloc. It'll have a desperately hard time shaking off its present hard-line image, but it'll do it eventually, either because of a terrible Democrat presidency or because of an Hispanic Republican equivalent of Barack Obama. This change will probably go hand in hand with greater changes across the US' political landscape, involving the Democrat party and who it will try to make its core voting bloc, and the pattern of the blue and red map of America. It'll get mixed up for a while, and then settle into a new and more stable pattern for a few decades, until the next major crisis prompts further re-alignments and changes.

Perhaps.

If it makes the GOP leadership and those it is beholden to a much less hateful bunch, it might be something worth looking forward to.

[Tornado]

The youth of today are not as racist, xenophobic, homophobic etc these days. The far right will not exist in 20 years,

Like me, my sig points out that I'm a socialist. I think we may see a movement like that in the future.

Far right as it exists now dying out doesn't mean remotely the same thing as the far left gaining any foothold.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

If anything, the current far right dying out would likely leave a bit of a vacuum for some other group to try to take charge of wouldn't it?

[Tornado]

If anything, the current far right dying out would likely leave a bit of a vacuum for some other group to try to take charge of wouldn't it?

It would. But the vacuum would just be filled with moderates.

Patticus pretty much nailed it. Basically, if the far right as it exists now (A.K.A. NeoCons) dies out due pretty much to their voted base dieing off and being replaced with groups that don't agree with them, the only thing that would happen is either the Republican Party would go back to how it was pre-Reagan (which it has already sorta been attempting to do for the past... 5 years or so, just to distance itself from memories of Bush) or it will be faced with a couple decades of irrelevance as Democrats run the country (which is very likely already underway anyway, depending on how Obama's almost inevitable second term goes) before they fuck something up bad enough that it drives people right back towards extreme right views.

But as far as their being any socialist inroads in America, I daresay that we would most likely be dead before something like that happens because even the overwhelming majority of Democrat voters (and thus the overwhelming majority of Democrat representatives) do not want truly leftist (rather than American leftist) views in government.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Tornado

[Stacy]

It would. But the vacuum would just be filled with moderates.

Patticus pretty much nailed it. Basically, if the far right as it exists now (A.K.A. NeoCons) dies out due pretty much to their voted base dieing off and being replaced with groups that don't agree with them, the only thing that would happen is either the Republican Party would go back to how it was pre-Reagan (which it has already sorta been attempting to do for the past... 5 years or so, just to distance itself from memories of Bush) or it will be faced with a couple decades of irrelevance as Democrats run the country (which is very likely already underway anyway, depending on how Obama's almost inevitable second term goes) before they fuck something up bad enough that it drives people right back towards extreme right views.

But as far as their being any socialist inroads in America, I daresay that we would most likely be dead before something like that happens because even the overwhelming majority of Democrat voters (and thus the overwhelming majority of Democrat representatives) do not want truly leftist (rather than American leftist) views in government.

Will America adopt any form of socialist policy (even with a tiny little hint of it)?

[DarkOverord]

Will America adopt any form of socialist policy (even with a tiny little hint of it)?

Eventually.

Britain almost didn't have an NHS or even welfare of any kind remember that. And if wasn't due to a world war, I do thing it would've appeared later than it did.

Every country that America accuses of being "socialist" was like America, albeit a little more old fashioned XP I do think it'll incline that way in our generation as the old leave behind more openings for more the more left inclined generations.

Edited May 22, 2012 by DarkOverord

[Patticus]

America won't go socialist for the foreseeable future. It might take more than a century and a half of social change to draw the US to the actual left of the political spectrum, and I think that's an optimistic appraisal.

"Obamacare" and other so-called "socialist" policies like it (one day, I hope, culminating in Canada/NHS-esque healthcare models in every state of the union) will only become truly accepted once they are actually implemented, and people can see the benefits of them for themselves while finding that the much-touted negatives aren't really what they thought they would be (and things like waiting lists can be skipped by the moderately well-off by going private). Until then, all a lot of people will have to go on are the horror stories and myths that the right-wing media likes to tell about them. Fear is a pretty powerful motivator in getting people to say no to things, even things that would actually benefit them.

[Stacy]

America won't go socialist for the foreseeable future. It might take more than a century and a half of social change to draw the US to the actual left of the political spectrum, and I think that's an optimistic appraisal.

"Obamacare" and other so-called "socialist" policies like it (one day, I hope, culminating in Canada/NHS-esque healthcare models in every state of the union) will only become truly accepted once they are actually implemented, and people can see the benefits of them for themselves while finding that the much-touted negatives aren't really what they thought they would be (and things like waiting lists can be skipped by the moderately well-off by going private). Until then, all a lot of people will have to go on are the horror stories and myths that the right-wing media likes to tell about them. Fear is a pretty powerful motivator in getting people to say no to things, even things that would actually benefit them.

I really doubt America ever adopting Socialism with America being a very conservative country, obsessed with preserving itself and doing just about anything to keep its status is 'the' world power.

The only way America is ever going to be Socialist is through force and a revolution, which I highly doubt would happen.

[Mono]

Coming from a socialist, I don't see any socialists being elected soon (but we still got Bernie Sanders as the only socialist in office!)

We may never have pure socialism, but I can see us as a social democracy. (for those that don't know what that is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy )

[Kevin]

America won't go socialist for the foreseeable future. It might take more than a century and a half of social change to draw the US to the actual left of the political spectrum, and I think that's an optimistic appraisal.

[Patticus]

At this point I can only see this country adopting some kind of universal healthcare system if the current system gets expensive to the point where practically no one can afford it and we hear enough horror stories to where people are fed up and really start protesting for a change.

There are plenty of horror stories floating about already (e.g. this), and it's a well known fact that insurance of any respectable caliber costs a pretty penny, which most folks can only afford by working tirelessly on long hours (somehow not becoming millionaires in the process), and even with that they only afford local area coverage anyway. This means that if you're travelling outside, say, a 60 mile radius of where they think you live, you either buy travel insurance just to receive healthcare within your own country (an absolute disgrace if you ask me) or you get to buy more expensive nationwide coverage. And people are fed up, but they don't see an out; they either want universal healthcare but see no hope of it ever being implemented because of the GOP, or they feel that their voices go unheard and their votes uncounted. Alternatively, they may have been so influenced by the right-wing media and its foul demagoguery (even if they don't consciously know it) that they see these alternative healthcare systems which would benefit them enormously and they don't want them.

Hopelessness, gullibility and outright indoctrination.

It's a real shame.

[Conando]

I'll say this. The best Healthcare plan I've ever been on was sponsored by the state.

[Mono]

My family is currently on medicaid and food stamps. Both are great for people who need it. It just proves that a government can run programs, such as single payer health care.

[Tornado]

It really doesn't help that stuff like this:

This means that if you're travelling outside, say, a 60 mile radius of where they think you live, you either buy travel insurance just to receive healthcare within your own country (an absolute disgrace if you ask me) or you get to buy more expensive nationwide coverage.

Is basically the result of insurance companies being government-protected monopolies.

[Mono]

Obamacare played a critical roll in fucking up the health care bill. EVERYONE had health insurance cash, Obama, too. That's why we have no single-payer like "public option".

Speaking of health care, a few years ago I got really sick, so I went to the hospital. When we got to the nurse that takes your blood pressure and temp, the first thing (and this is 100% true) that came out of her mouth was "So how will you be paying for this?"

It's disgusting this country with things like that

Edited May 23, 2012 by Mono

[Patticus]

a few years ago I got really sick, so I went to the hospital. When we got to the nurse that takes your blood pressure and temp, the first thing (and this is 100% true) that came out of her mouth was "So how will you paying for this?"

[-Robin-]

It seems the Texas primary a few days ago gave Romney enough delegates to secure the GOP nomination.

So what everyone expected to happen for months has finally happened.

Romney vs. Obama (vs. whatever the hell Paul's doing right now) for the next 5 months.

[Mono]

Ron Paul dropped out. He's running for Congress again.

[Kevin]

Fox News has made their own anti-Obama attack ad:

Thankfully someone was there to fact check that video. The person who produced this is keeping his job.

I don't care which side of the political spectrum its on, a station that calls itself a "news channel" and gives a slogan of "fair and balanced" should never produce this and said person should be fired.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Kevin

[Mono]

FOX News is just propaganda fed to them by the GOP. It makes real journalism cry.

[Stacy]

Fox News has made their own anti-Obama attack ad:

Thankfully someone was there to fact check that video. The person who produced this is keeping his job.

I don't care which side of the political spectrum its on, a station that calls itself a "news channel" and gives a slogan of "fair and balanced" should never produce this and said person should be fired.

How the hell can Obama instil change when wankers out there like Fox won't let him with their obviously biased bullshit, its fucking horseshit.

[Patticus]

As long as Obama secures the upcoming election, his administration is just going to have to power through all opposition until the bulk of the healthcare plan takes effect in 2014, at which point sceptics getting treatment will immediately be able to reap the benefits it will bring, and will cease to believe the hostile horseshit they've been fed by the far-right. Hopefully.