The General American Politics Thread

[Tornado]

If he does win, I hope Hillary Clinton runs in '16 and wins by a landslide, and in office destroys entirely the lobbyist culture gripping both houses (by forcing through new laws to forever separate interest groups from government) and overturns Citizens United permanently, among other things.

No offense, but Hilary Clinton would be borderline unelectable if she actually made it to the end of the race and was on the ballet for the top job. There are people (a substantial amount, it should be said) in the Democrat Party who hate her so much that they would sooner vote Republican than vote for her (and that goes in the opposite way, too) and she would never swing moderate votes unless the Republican candidate had Gingrich levels of ineptitude. That's why the primary race between her and Obama was so unbelievable nasty, and why Obama needed to give her a spot on his cabinet when he ultimately won out.

In the mean time, the Voter ID laws which have been so devastating for Democratic voter registration need to be repealed nationwide and banned as permanently as is possible. The GOP's tactics must never be permitted again.

Funnily enough, I just finished watching that episode of The Newsroom before I logged on today.

Edited August 30, 2012 by Gilda

[Patticus]

Why exactly is Hillary so hated? I always thought she was pretty well liked across the board.

[Tornado]

Hilary has hardcore Hilary supporters and supporters who she aligns with on certain issues, but she is a hard ass on everything she gets behind and she always has been. That's why when Obama won the primaries there was a major threat from the ones who campaigned for her up to that point splitting the election on purpose (I actually think that was the thing that the 2008 Election thread that was around here before the server wipe was started about, if I recall correctly). She could basically be viewed as the U.S. version of Thatcher, if she was to be compared to anyone (though not on her views, obviously).

Now, as far as voter pathology goes, some of it (how much depending on who you ask) actually comes from all the way back when the Lewinsky thing broke, as ridiculous as that sounds, because a fairly popular sentiment (especially when she announced she was running for Senate before Bill even finished his second term) was that she used the entire thing purely to further her political career since Bill was going to leave office soon. The rest of it comes from the fact that she scares a lot of people, justified or not; and a decade or so of serial-numbers-filed-off versions of her in the media hasn't made that go away.

If she was going to run for President and make it all the way to the end, she would have to choose a damn good VP who could both appeal to moderates and make it clear that he would actually have some effect on her presidency. Which the former wouldn't be that hard, but the latter would be tough to convince people about.

Edited August 30, 2012 by Gilda

[Patticus]

That's fair enough I suppose... but it seems to me that the longer the democrats are in office, the more absolutely insane the GOP becomes. It has already become a parody of itself. I can only imagine how manic it'll be in '16, and what kind of candidate the Democrats will have to field to overcome that lunacy.

[blackherox]

Anyone else watching the republican national convention (first time watching this stuff btw). Standard politician jargon, I guess. Say things that will tickle the ear of the voters, but with not actually detail on how said things will be implemented or the context. Same with the dems I guess, even over here.

Its no wonder most people are so apathetic.

[Johnny Boy]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but...

Republican supporters throw nuts at black CNN camerawoman and said 'this is how we feed annimals.' during Romney's nomination.

Gee, at this rate I'm wondering if Republicans are trying to get Obama re elected.

[Patticus]

Clint Eastwood's rambling... speech thing, god what a waste of time that was.

And Mitt couldn't stop giving puppy dog eyes, could he? It was actually sickening.

[Sami]

Wrote an essay for my government class about the Republican National Convention stream I just watched:

As of 10:50 PM EST, on August 30, 2012, Mitt Romney is giving a speech in front of thousands of people; talking about his life as a child and a father. He’s talking about very “American” values; family, teamwork, etc. It seems that this isn’t his primary focus, however, as he’s quickly turned to slandering President Obama. Classy. President Obama, evidently, does not understand that business is not about government or politics, but about “dreams” and “perseverance”. We, as Americans, need to stop being patient with President Obama and “make this a better America”. Romney is focusing very much on the apparent mistakes that Obama has made and the repercussions of said mistakes. The crowd is booing at Romney’s claims about how terrible of a leader Obama is. “If Barack Obama is re-elected, you’ll be right (in thinking things won’t get better).” He’s mainly focusing on what terrible and awful things Obama has done or is going to do in his next term. Thankfully, he seems to finally have turned to actual goals that he has set for himself as opposed to blatant propaganda. … “President Obama promised to slow the rise of the oceans and to heal the planet. My promise is to help you and your family.” It looks like he’s back to criticizing Obama, then. How thoroughly riveting, I must say.

The crowd’s chanting of “U.S.A.” while he focuses on criticizing Obama is, quite frankly, disgusting to me. I truly and honestly hope that the National Democrat Convention is less focused on biased propaganda, because I find this absolutely insulting to my intelligence. When I listen to a speech by a presidential candidate, I expect to hear about how my country will improve; not about how he isn’t as bad as his opponent.

Please stop wasting my time, Mr. Romney.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Dissident

[Patticus]

I really hated the way Mitt used Neil Armstrong's death as a political prop for his campaign. It was incredibly disrespectful.

So... who else caught the various speeches at the RNC tonight? Clint Eastwood rambled on for a while, talking to an empty chair; a pretty strange sight to see, all told, although also somehow rather illustrative of the whoile campaign so far; an old white guy bitching about an imaginary black guy. It was sad, and a massive waste of everybody's time. It also seems very odd to me that he would rather a businessman have a go at running America instead of a former lawyer, though oftentimes they're both as bad as one another. Why not elect a scientist or an accountant to high office? At least they'd have some idea of the real world effects of their own policies.

Marco Rubio, Rep. senator for Florida, also gave a speech. All his talk of "god-given rights" pissed me off; they were granted by the government as god had shit all to do with any of it (god is nowhere to be found in the constitution). And then he said that America is "a nation of immigrants" and talked about his immigrant parents, and touched upon Romney's immigrant parents, while simultaneously being a member of a party with a very large number of openly racist members who espouse violently xenophobic, anti-immigrant views and propose similarly anti-immigrant legislation... that glaring hypocrisy was awful to behold.

As was Romney himself, trying to gather the sympathies of everyone in the room with his fawning looks, his puppy dog eyes, the stories about his folks, all while not detailing a single policy... Oh, well, there were the threats to Iran and Russia, the pledge to reinstate Israel as America's No. #1 Favorite Country In The World at the clear expense of Palestine (thereby assuring continued good times for American arms manufacturers for the foreseeable future), the promise of anti-abortion legislation, homophobic legislation and so on.

Pretty much everything revolved around rose-tinted nostalgia mixed with hate and bullshit. Not a nice mix. I'm sure it sounded nice for the more gullible people watching though.

[turbojet]

So who hear likes to count the black people in the crowd at the RNC?

Not a single fly in the milk.

[Patticus]

Plenty of women there though, ready and willing to vote against their own interests, like stupid sheep prancing merrily into the slaughterhouse.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

So who hear likes to count the black people in the crowd at the RNC?

Not a single fly in the milk.

I thought I was the only person doing that.

[Patticus]

I spotted a couple of 'Hispanics for Romney' signs in the crowd, but they might've just been there to give the appearance of a multiethnic crowd to folks on TV.

Anyone else feel like providing views on the main speeches of the night (Eastwood, Rubio & Romney)?

[Stacy]

Clint Eastwood is supporting Romney? I think I threw up a little in my mouth a bit.

I mean I know he's been an on and off conservative but Romney is not the solution.

Strange seeing as Eastwood is Pro-Choice, supports Same-Sex Marriage and the Equal Rights amendment, I find this a bit odd.

....the pledge to reinstate Israel as America's No. #1 Favorite Country In The World at the clear expense of Palestine (thereby assuring continued good times for American arms manufacturers for the foreseeable future).

Well he is off our Christmas list, even our Conservatives don't like him! I got the impression he isn't a fan of the UK probably his mindset is still stuck in the late 18th century. I also think he doesn't like Europe full stop.

Edited August 31, 2012 by BW199148

[Patticus]

Today is a good day for Ohioan politics regarding the upcoming election, as the incumbent Republican governors' attempts to allow early voting in Republican-leaning counties but not in Democrat-leaning counties (thereby potentially delivering Ohio for Romney) are shot down.

A federal judge in Ohio on Friday restored early voting rights in the three days before the election, ruling in favor of the Obama campaign.

U.S. District judge Peter C. Economus ruled that "restoring in-person early voting to all Ohio voters through the Monday before Election Day does not deprive UOCAVA voters from early voting."

"Instead, and more importantly, it places all Ohio voters on equal standing," Economus ruled. He said the state "fails to articulate a precise, compelling interest in establishing the 6 p.m. Friday deadline as applied to non-UOCAVA voters and has failed to evidence any commitment to the 'exception' it rhetorically extended to UOCAVA voters."

The Romney campaign had falsely accused Obama of trying to curtail military voting when the suit simply sought to force the state to make early voting available to all Ohio voters.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/federal-judge-restores-early-voting-in-ohio-after

[The Kid]

So who hear likes to count the black people in the crowd at the RNC?

Not a single fly in the milk.

I counted a few. Of course they showed them multiple times.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Mr. H/The Kid

[Shan Zhu]

Plenty of women there though, ready and willing to vote against their own interests, like stupid sheep prancing merrily into the slaughterhouse.

How dare they support the misogynistic Republican Party, well known for its tendency to characterize people according to their membership in a class rather than as individuals.

they were granted by the government as god had shit all to do with any of it (god is nowhere to be found in the constitution).

Tenuous rights, indeed, if their only guarantee is that the men with the guns have promised not to violate them. I'd best hope they allow me the privilege of expecting them to keep their promises!

As for me, while I don't like to use God to achieve it, I prefer a system where justice has more weight than that.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Shan Zhu

[Tornado]

Plenty of women there though, ready and willing to vote against their own interests, like stupid sheep prancing merrily into the slaughterhouse.

I have to say, this is laughably pretentious of you to say. I honestly hope you didn't mean that the way it looks, because it's fucking absurd of you to claim that someone who doesn't share your personal interests is going against their interests because they aren't following yours.

Perhaps they don't think the various RNC hardline stances will come to pass if Romney wins. Perhaps they feel the RNC's other stances outweigh those hardline stances. Perhaps they just don't care about those hardline stances. Perhaps they don't like those hardline stances, but dislike Obama's more. Perhaps, heaven forbid, they agree with those hardline stances for whatever reason! There are gay people who vote Republican too. So do some black people, and youth, and Hispanics. Are they all stupid sheep too? What about the incredibly wealthy who vote Democrat? What about white men who support things like affirmative action? Stupid sheep?

Edited August 31, 2012 by Gilda

[-Robin-]

Mitt Romney's sister did go on the airwaves a few days ago to soothe worried voters that Romney would not even touch the abortion/birth control issue if he was elected, now that I think of it.

And speaking of Gay Republicans and their supporters:

Jim Kolbe said earlier this week that the gay marriage issue was a generational one, and that the opposition would disappear from the platform in 2016. If the youth movement becomes a driving force, that may very well be the case.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Bobbyjosh

[Shan Zhu]

Given that ad, I'm curious about how log cabin Republicans would feel about legal recognition for polygamous marriage.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Shan Zhu

[PSI Wind]

WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS

[Your Vest Friend]

Oh, how nice of them to provide a transcript of the speeches, and live to boot.

Someone should have stuck post-it notes all over it as the speech was going on.

[blackherox]

Clint Eastwood is supporting Romney? I think I threw up a little in my mouth a bit.

I mean I know he's been an on and off conservative but Romney is not the solution.

Strange seeing as Eastwood is Pro-Choice, supports Same-Sex Marriage and the Equal Rights amendment, I find this a bit odd.

Romney never really been clear on the above, unlike other more right wing conservatives.

Well he is off our Christmas list, even our Conservatives don't like him! I got the impression he isn't a fan of the UK probably his mindset is still stuck in the late 18th century. I also think he doesn't like Europe full stop.

To be fair, domestic issues should be his priority I mean, during out elections Cameron and Clegg weren't trying to pander to the US or other nations.

Having said that in an incredibly unstable economic world, Mitt would be foolish to think that 'America' can handle everything on their own.

[Stacy]

Romney never really been clear on the above, unlike other more right wing conservatives.

To be fair, domestic issues should be his priority I mean, during out elections Cameron and Clegg weren't trying to pander to the US or other nations.

What I meant was his attitude when he visted the UK came across as really arrogant and Negative, many people found him to be worse than Palin.

As I said before he's a dinosaur.

Also this is what Mitt Romney said about the UK in his Autobiography.

England is just a small island. Its roads and houses are small. With few exceptions, it doesn't make things that people want to buy. And if it hadn't been separated from the continent by water, it almost certainly would have been lost to Hitler's ambitions.

What a ignorant bastard, If that's what he thinks of us I hate to think about what he thinks about the French and the Germans.

[Shan Zhu]

To be fair, this is the full quote:

England is just a small island. Its roads and houses are small. With few exceptions, it doesn’t make things that people in the rest of the world want to buy. And if it hadn’t been separated from the continent by water, it almost certainly would have been lost to Hitler’s ambitions. Yet only two lifetimes ago, Britain ruled the largest and wealthiest empire in the history of humankind. Britain controlled a quarter of the earth’s land and a quarter of the earth’s population.

It then leads into a discussion of the effects of war, imperial exploitation, the welfare state, protectionism, and class immobility on a powerful nation. As he goes on to say in the bit about protectionism, for example:

There are similarities between the different countries’ paths of decline. Many turned toward isolation; most important, isolation from knowledge: the Ottomans, Spanish, Portuguese, and Chinese purposefully shut out foreign invention and learning. And they adopted economic isolation as well: China, Spain, Britain, and the Ottomans expressly or effectively retreated behind barriers to foreign trade, each convinced that competition had made them weaker. Their retreat from the marketplace of ideas and their retreat from the marketplace of goods inevitably led to their retreat from the pinnacle of leadership.

He then suggests the US learn from this and not repeat the mistakes of the past.

The beginning is still an (inexcusably) inaccurate picture of the UK's role in the world. Still, contextually, it's just exaggeration for effect, not the patriotic bigotry it appears to be in isolation.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Shan Zhu