The General American Politics Thread

[Patticus]

Looks like his retraction of that 47% remark was itself a lie. I mean, god, look at him, he still believes this shit.

I sorta felt sorry for him when I read how he was all shellshocked on election night, how Ann wept etc, but now I'm just sorry his electoral ass wasn't raped harder.

[Tornado]

He's not wrong on that, though he's (unsurprisingly) only looking at it in regards to him rather than the entirety of the party and ignoring just how little effort he made towards attracting the vote of minorities.

[turbojet]

Obama has not done fuck all for the African American community or the Hispanic community. The only reason they polled out was simply because at least Obama does not oppose them unlike the Republican party as a whole. He is acting like their interest pales in comparison to his interests.

[Tornado]

But turbojet. He gave himself a fake tan and everything. Of course he emphasizes with Latinos.

[Patticus]

I would like to offer the suggestion that the topic be renamed to reflect a more general US / North American political thread. You know, since there's not going to be a lot of election talk for the next year or two, but there will probably be plenty of general political gossip, news and discussion. Such as the ones we could be having about the Petraeus Affair, Susan Rice's GOP opposition, or the upcoming Benghazi Senate Hearings Dub Remix feat. DJ Petraeus.

[Candescence]

I think the latest events in the Middle East are gonna be a big focus as well, considering the escalation between Israel and Hamas.

I don't get terrorist groups, honestly. Their usual strategy, killing a whole bunch of innocent people tends to do nothing except piss off the people they're against and the general public and bring down a whole lot of wrath upon their heads. The 9-11 attacks resulted in the War on Terror, and Israel tends to bring on its wrath towards any organization that tries to inflict harm on its citizens. It nearly always never ends well for the terrorists, I think, and there's less terror and more anger, than anything else, so it's hardly working in the long run.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

I think the latest events in the Middle East are gonna be a big focus as well, considering the escalation between Israel and Hamas.

I don't get terrorist groups, honestly. Their usual strategy, killing a whole bunch of innocent people tends to do nothing except piss off the people they're against and the general public and bring down a whole lot of wrath upon their heads. The 9-11 attacks resulted in the War on Terror, and Israel tends to bring on its wrath towards any organization that tries to inflict harm on its citizens. It nearly always never ends well for the terrorists, I think, and there's less terror and more anger, than anything else, so it's hardly working in the long run.

Terror generates paranoia, which causes normally rational people to start becoming less rational, and crazy people to become Knight Templars/Plain Crazier. And it causes fear, confusion, and distrust.

[turbojet]

Any one else think that the topic should be re-named?

Personally, I think the title should remain since a lot of what we've been talking about has been about the general reaction of his victory and his upcoming challenges. But that's just me.

[Tornado]

I thought we already had a "general American political figure douchebaggery" topic anyway?

[Patticus]

I can't remember if we do or not, and besides, this one has served us so well, it'd be a shame to let it go...

Oh snap.

[Tornado]

You mean like the emergency meetings he called during the economic crisis when it was first starting where he met with... no one who knew anything about what to do with the economic crisis?

Edited November 16, 2012 by Tornado

[-Robin-]

With a slew of Republican leaders, including Chris Christie, lambasting Romney over his post-election comments, I think it's safe to say that any hope for Romney to remain a major figure in the Republican Party for years on has been completely dashed.

If he attempts to run again in 2016 (he's been in the presidential circuit for 7 years now), it's likely he'll be ran out of town immediately.

[Patticus]

Romney said before the election that that would be his last campaign. Now, time does tend to have restorative effects on the fortunes of most politicians, provided they live long enough; Nixon lost the presidential election eight years before he won it, for example, and John McCain is still a big figure in the party even after picking Sarah Palin and being defeated decisively in 2008. However, Romney's already getting on in years, and has spent the past 6 years trying to become president. He might have a few years of public or private service left in him, but I don't think that there's much of a chance we'll see him going back into mainstream politics, even though Obama has stated that he intends to seek his advice on economic issues in the coming weeks.

[Tornado]

Romney doesn't have the foundation to try twice. McCain tried in 2000 and 2008 by calling in a lot of favors given to him by being an extremely powerful political figure, and Nixon did the same the two times he ran. Romney had one shot at this, groomed for the chance or not, so this will be the last we will see of him I'm sure.

Edited November 18, 2012 by Tornado

[Candescence]

Oh, NMA, you've done it again.

The irony of pointing out that Texan seccessionists might as well just live in Russia is hilarious.

Edited November 21, 2012 by Masaru Daimon

[TheGerkuman]

NMA's not even trying to be neutral about the whole news providing thing. Somehow that works in it's favour, if only because it's not pretending to be unbiased.

And it's the only place where you can find the participants of the nativity firing rifles at the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Gerkuman

[Candescence]

I think NMA doesn't care if it's biased or not, as long as the results are hilarious. Their coverage of Bin Laden's death crossed the line twice, haha.

Edited November 21, 2012 by Masaru Daimon

[-Robin-]

Allen West has finally conceded the House election to Patrick Murphy, two weeks after the election, and after a recount of the votes actually widened the gap between the two even further.

I think that concludes all election results for 2012, right?

[Tornado]

Since... whatever. This is the general American politics thread now I guess.

Dallas Cowboys fans are calling on a higher power to erase Jerry Jones from the equation in Big D.

The Dallas Morning News reported Monday that a man from Ft. Benning, Ga. has petitioned President Barack Obama to remove Jones from power over the Cowboys organization.

The petition, housed on the White House website and filed under the category of "Human Rights," includes the following call to arms:

"We, the Citizens of the Great State of Texas, and Dallas Cowboys fans worldwide, have been oppressed by an over controlling, delusional, oppressive dictator for way too long. Request the Executive Branch's immediate assistance in removal of owner and GM, Jerry Jones. His incompetence and ego have not only been an extreme disappointment for way too long, but moreover, it has caused extreme mental and emotional duress."

As we post this, 412 U.S. citizens have signed the petition. Only 24,588 more are required for Obama to take this seriously. We've dispatched Rosenthal to monitor this development closely.

Linky.

I think this is just the thing Obama needs to do to reunite America and reach out to Republicans. It's a brilliant political maneuver.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Tornado

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Yeah, so do these petitions actually work?

[Tornado]

If they get the required number of signatures, then Obama has to acknowledge that they exist.

And... that's it.

[Conando]

I like how all the Texans are morbidly obese.

[Autosaver]

The petition you are trying to access has been removed from the site under our Moderation Policy because it is in violation of our Terms of Participation.

[Patticus]

Obama and Biden appear to be taking their fiscal cliff plans (namely, tax hikes for those who can most afford it) to the people.

During negotiations over raising the debt limit in summer 2011, President Obama got stroppy with House Majority Leader Eric Cantor. "Don't call my bluff," he said, according to Cantor. "I'm going to the American people with this." During this season's budget fight, the president is not waiting for talks to break down. He's hitting the road early. On Friday, he will highlight the damage that will be done to the middle class if the country sails over the fiscal cliff on a visit to a manufacturing operation in Hatfield, Penn. (If the Republicans were feeling fun, they'd schedule an event in McCoy.)

The president's aides say he is working inside the negotiating room and outside of it, and that a president must do both. But according to one who has discussed Obama's second term with him, the president believes he spent too much time in his first term engaged with members of Congress--even members of his own party. In the second term he's going to use his office to generate outside support that puts pressure on Republicans. In this case that means one thing: agreeing to raise tax rates on the wealthy. In the president's view, that's either going to happen through agreement in the room, or after the Jan. 1 deadline has passed and public pressure forces Republicans to cave.

Will the outside game work? It didn't when Obama had that confrontation with Cantor. During the 2011 debt-limit fight, the president's approval ratings dropped to their lowest levels, as he was bogged down in a battle opaque to most people. But a lot has changed since then. Most obviously, Obama has been re-elected. If a deal is not struck, the president will not suffer at the ballot box. Obama's re-election also indicates a mandate of this specific question of tax rates for the wealthy. Exit polls show 60 percent of voters support the hike. Polls also show that people are primed to blame Republicans if no deal is struck. Forty-five percent surveyed in a new CNN/ORC poll said they would blame congressional Republicans if there is no agreement. Only 34 percent said they would blame President Obama.

There is a theory--argued most effectively by Brandice Canes-Wrone, in Who Leads Whom? --that presidents cannot lead the country so much as shape public opinion. Presidents are effective only when the public is already with them. Last summer the fight was unfocused. Now the lines are clearer. Though the fiscal cliff debate touches all areas of government, the immediate debate is essentially focused on raising or lowering taxes on the wealthy. This president has won battles with Congress when the topic is narrow, as he did over the extension of the payroll tax cut and holding down student loan interest rates.

Republicans don't like the president taking his case to the public. "We already know the president is a very good campaigner," said Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell. "What we don't know is whether he has the leadership qualities necessary to lead his party to a bipartisan agreement on a big issue likes this." On the House side, one aide to Republican leadership said Republican members are concerned the president's public campaigning is an attempt to prepare public opinion for an eventual failure to reach a deal, and thus a possible sign that he's not really serious about a deal. For the moment, those working on a deal from the House GOP side say the White House is negotiating in good faith (though not with the level of specificity they'd like). If they start to see the White House "slow walk" negotiations, they'll know that Obama has decided that going over the "cliff" is not that big a deal and the campaign-style trip is an effort to build leverage for the post-Jan. 1, 2013 period.

White House aides insist the president wants to get a deal. He thinks the post-Jan. 1 shock to the economy would be real and that the recovery is too fragile. "Just because everyone in Washington thinks this can be worked out in three weeks if we go over the cliff, no one in the business world or families would think that way," says a White House official.

Republicans are looking for any number of ways to take the microphone back from the president. Grover Norquist proposes that Republicans push to have the fiscal cliff negotiations televised. "The only way for Republicans to have a chance is to have American people in there, not allow establishment press to explain to you what happened. The president has a better megaphone. Unless you focus on what's happening in the room, the press focuses on those who bend toward the TV cameras, but who aren't in the room."

If Obama is trying to take his message to the people, Norquist is trying to take the people to the negotiations. Norquist also wants to have whatever deal is struck posted online for seven days before a vote so that people can have a look at it. If these gambits sound familiar, it's because young and innocent Barack Obama of the 2008 campaign vowed to have negotiations on television and

for five days. The White House is not likely to go along with either of these ideas and John Boehner might not want to either. As a skilled legislator, Boehner knows that the final deal might include lots of fudging and weasel words that can get votes but that won't be so easy to explain once Twitter, bloggers, and talk radio get to whack at them for a week. Sometimes, when you take an issue to the public you want it to be a done deal.

http://www.cbsnews.c...e-bully-pulpit/

"All the people you meet in here today, these are hard workin' folks who don't need to see their taxes go up," Biden told reporters after perusing the warehouse store. A male shopper nearby yelled in reply, "Yes, sir!"

For that reason, Biden said, it's important Congress "acts now, right now" to extend current income tax rates, enacted during the Bush administration, for the 98 percent of Americans making less than $250,000.

http://www.cbsnews.c...-wh-tax-agenda/

God damn I hope this works, and I hope that it shows that Obama will not tolerate the house GOP's underhanded "block everything he does" tactics any more.

[Tornado]

Oh, look. Obama grew some balls.

Kind of a moot point, since the class warfare campaign that the Republicans all too gleefully helped perpetuate guaranteed the GOP wouldn't have stuck to the Bush tax cuts regardless (and that is true even if Romney had won, because Romney wouldn't have had the clout to keep them either) especially when in the grand scheme of things they are so meaningless since it will do very little to impact revenue and do practically nothing to those who make money on capital gains, but maybe when they fold on that he'll realize that the Bully Pulpit is a thing he can actually use. Like... whenever he wants.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Tornado