The General 'Murican Politics Thread

[Phos]

53 minutes ago, Jiren (Metro) said:

What’s this about?

I think this started on /pol or something like it, it's basically just the alt right's latest strawman, "sheeple" with video game terminology.  

[Tani Coyote]

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/11/new-numbers-show-arizona-senate-race-no-longer-close-call-30000-votes-kyrsten-sinema-wins/

Democratic victory in the Arizona Senate race looks increasingly likely. With 260,000 votes left, many of them from Phoenix, Sinema has a 30,000 vote lead. The Republican McSally would need to win over 57% of the remaining vote to win.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/11/politics/florida-recount-palm-beach-county/index.html

Republican and Democratic election workers alike have said meeting the Thursday deadline will be impossible in Florida. Should this happen, the Secretary of State will certify results as is.

The Palm Beach GOP chairman has blatantly said this is good news for Republicans because their candidates are ahead. At least they're honest about how they like to steal elections.

There will be lawsuits. There is no doubt about that.

8 hours ago, Jiren (Metro) said:

Do you have any insight on this? @Coyote (Ogilvie)

Court packing will certainly be on the table. Savvy conservative judges will move strategically to stave off a packing attempt by behaving like moderates.

If the Dems so desire, they can use their next Senate majority, a possibility, to rapidly lock in power. They may as well considering the odds of losing the Senate will be extremely high.

[Meta77]

On 11/9/2018 at 5:31 AM, RedFox99 said:

So, I wanted to ask: do you guys believe people have a right to own guns to protect themselves?

That is a silly question. Of course its a good thing.  It is a right and no ones going to take it least you see hell raise from the ocean. There are countless "Good" stories of people protecting themselves in homes with someone breaks in. Either scaring or in some cases shooting the would be robber. Though laws are pretty dumb on being able to use them. Such as the rule where some states have it set where the person must be in your home before you can shoot them or if they run or steal your car in your driveway if they are leaving you can not.  I know if i had kids i would 100 percent have one in the bedroom (In a safe with a key on my person) and to teach my kids of how dangerous they are. seriously i grew up in a home with rifles and my parents made sure to teach me common sense and just how extremely dangerous they were.

[Tani Coyote]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/12/politics/richard-ojeda-president-2020/index.html

Richard Ojeda has announced a bid for President of the United States.

Ojeda is a veteran from West Virginia, and a firm economic populist. He voted for Trump in 2016 on the basis of Trump's promises to combat the opioid epidemic and help put the people of coal country back to work. With Trump having largely abandoned those promises, Ojeda is running an economic populist Democratic campaign. While he lost the House race in his district, he came far closer to winning it than Clinton ever did.

While Ojeda's coal industry background make him stand out as an oddball (he is interested in reviving the coal industry, unlike most Democrats, but he's most focused on simply reviving the desolated West Virginian economy), he is one of several candidates representing an economic populist shift in policy. He has a strong base in organized labor as well.

Ojeda is pro-life, but he has a pro-choice policy position because abortion bans would only hurt the poor and rich people would find a way to get them illegally.

At 48 to Sanders' 77, Ojeda could provide the Democrats with some much needed young progressive leadership.

[Tani Coyote]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/12/politics/sinema-arizona-senate-race/index.html

Democrat Kyrsten Sinema has won the Arizona Senate race, with so many ballots coming in it is now impossible for McSally to win the race. Sinema is the first Democrat to win the seat in 24 years, the first woman to represent Arizona, and the first openly bisexual person to win a U.S. Senate seat.

With 47 seats, the Democrats now have a very narrow path to a majority in 2020.

That would improve if the Democrats managed to take Florida in the Senate recount, but that election is pretty much guaranteed to be stolen by the GOP with their arbitrary voting laws. The Republicans are, in usual fashion, projecting when they complain about stealing elections there.

I can only hope with all the people who had their voting rights restored on Election Night that the Florida GOP gets a black eye in the next election.

 

[KHCast]

I’m hearing that Hilary is running again in 2020. That true? 

[Johnny Boy]

9 minutes ago, KHCast said:

I’m hearing that Hilary is running again in 2020. That true? 

It’s probably not. Besides I highly doubt that the Democrats would want her to run again after the disaster in 2016.

[Patticus]

1 hour ago, KHCast said:

I’m hearing that Hilary is running again in 2020. That true? 

Quote

Two-time Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton will mount a third bid for the White House, longtime Clinton adviser Mark Penn wrote in an op-ed published Sunday by The Wall Street Journal, predicting that the former first lady and secretary of state is readying a "Hillary 4.0" campaign for 2020.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/12/clinton-aide-2020-run-983684

Mark Penn got fired from Clinton's 2008 presidential campaign for advocating for (more) racist attacks on Obama, and the op-ed was published by the Wall Street Journal, once a respected economic publication, now overtly partisan Republican trash under Murdoch. He has no insight into Clinton's thinking or plans - the piece was more than likely written to catch Trump's eye.

[Tani Coyote]

Considering Clinton was billed as the one who was more electable yet lost anyway, I think a lot of primary voters would get wise this time around and vote to keep the nomination away from her, in any case.

Most Dem leaders, meanwhile, were happy to step aside to let the Party darling get practically handed the nomination. With her abysmal performance last time, I don't think many of them would be as eager to.

As an aside? I don't think the Dems' disavowing of Bill Clinton as part of the #MeToo movement was entirely altruistic. It was also a way to reduce the influence of the couple so that they would stay in the shadows going forward. The Clintons have cast a long shadow over the Democratic Party for a while, and the culture shift provided a perfect opportunity to finally curb their influence.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/12/politics/florida-bay-county-vote-by-email-fax-hurricane/index.html

And the county with the most illegally-cast votes in Florida is... wait for it... a Republican county!

Due to dislocation from a hurricane, the local county officials allowed some voters who were homeless to cast votes by email or fax, even though this is illegal under state law. They ran it by the Secretary of State, who said that the county knows its needs best and should do what they had to do to get votes in.

See, this would sound noble, helping dislocated people... except the GOP complains about fraud and illegal ballots everywhere else. But this is a Republican county, so they suddenly did not care about the letter of rules but the spirit of democracy.

Pathetic.

[Bowbowis]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/13/media/cnn-sues-trump/index.html

CNN is suing the Trump Administration for taking away Jim Acosta's press pass. The law is clearly on CNN's side here, so the smart move would be for the White House to reinstate Acosta in exchange for not going to court. Either way, a presidential Twitter shit fit is imminent.

[RedFox99]

I may not always agree with Tom (especially with the Spechie and Mr Enter fiascos and with the hat's text in the thumbnail), but he makes some good points about how bad Jello's video was.

Tbh, I had no idea there was any backlash towards the video and even before finding out, i felt it was too biased and heavily relied on deceiving people through guilt-tripping.

[tailsBOOM!]

Don't post here often but here's something I saw today:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/13/media/cnn-sues-trump/index.html

EDIT: Someone already posted it...

[Patticus]

As much as I've enjoyed watching his tawdry feud with Trump unfold, I was always worried about his obvious presidential ambitions. Thankfully, there'll be no coming back from this, and we can all rest a little easier knowing he won't be muddying up the 2020 primary waters.

[8ther]

1 hour ago, Patticus said:

As much as I've enjoyed watching his tawdry feud with Trump unfold, I was always worried about his obvious presidential ambitions. Thankfully, there'll be no coming back from this, and we can all rest a little easier knowing he won't be muddying up the 2020 primary waters.

Who is he and why were you worried?

[Bowbowis]

2 hours ago, Jiren (Metro) said:

Who is he and why were you worried?

Stormy Daniels' lawyer. Concerning because he's charismatic enough to win people over but he doesn't really have the temperament or experience to be president. Way more qualified than Trump, but that's a bar so low you'd have to dig for it.

Story here: https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/14/politics/michael-avenatti-arrest/index.html

[Patticus]

9 hours ago, Bowbowis said:

Stormy Daniels' lawyer. Concerning because he's charismatic enough to win people over but he doesn't really have the temperament or experience to be president. Way more qualified than Trump, but that's a bar so low you'd have to dig for it.

Story here: https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/14/politics/michael-avenatti-arrest/index.html

Also, he's shady as fuck - once used a poor/homeless man (whom it later turned out was an associate of his from a previous case) to sue his law firm for, what, $15,000 I think, and claimed before the judge in the case that that would bankrupt the firm.

He's charismatic and I've had fun watching him beat up on Trump, but the reality is that he's just Trump in a better fitting suit. If he had ran in the 2020 primaries, he could've been truly destructive to the Democrats' chances. He might still try of course, but this story is likely the end of his dreams of the presidency, for which we are all thankful.

[Tani Coyote]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/14/politics/trump-prison-reform/index.html

Trump has backed the prison reform proposals going through Congress. Among the proposals are a reduction to sentences involving crimes committed with a firearm, the abolition of the life sentence for three strikes laws, and expanding how many people are exempt from mandatory minimum sentences for nonviolent drug offenses.

The bill, if it materializes, is expected to easily clear 60 votes in the Senate.

Personally, I think this is a strategic move on the GOP's part. While some criminal justice reform was part of the GOP's 2016 platform (no seriously, read it sometime, talk of reducing how many crimes are on the books, the harshness of sentences, etc. is actually in there), it never was a top priority until now. I don't think this is just because of the incoming Democratic House and a desire to claim some credit for criminal justice reform, though.

Florida restored the right to vote to a million and a half people on Election Day. They were all ex-felons. The GOP changing its positions on crime is likely vital if they want to keep Florida in their column. The fact the Rust Belt has reverted to its Democratic roots makes Florida even more vital to any Republican Presidential campaign going forward. And with so many people aware of what it was like to become second-class citizens due to their criminal records, a zero tolerance policy probably would not do the GOP any favors.

In absence of reconsidering their support for the Electoral College, this is a sound move on the GOP's part. It makes it possible to build a bridge to these re-enfranchised voters, and thus keep Florida from slipping away in 2020 and beyond. Never mind the fact changing their policies on crime would probably help a great deal to improve their position with non-white voters in general.

Somewhere in both Trump and the Republican leadership's minds, they realized it's only a matter of time until demographics really start to kick them. Their changing stances on sentencing and marijuana are a strategic move to avoid losing too much ground.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/15/politics/mueller-protection-bill-jeff-flake/index.html

Outgoing GOP Senator Jeff Flake of Arizona has said he will not vote to clear any judicial nominees from the Senate Judiciary until a bill is passed that will protect Mueller.

No other Republicans have joined his cause, but this does slow down McConnell's ability to pass judges a little.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/15/politics/palm-beach-county-recount-deadline-democrats-lawsuit/index.html

The Florida races have gone to a hand recount. While there was talk of failing machines, Governor Scott's margin has widened slightly and a lot of analysts believe Scott legitimately won and the margin is too small for a recount to flip.

[KHCast]

I’m curious if these prison reform policies will specifically work to benefit African American prisoners especially as they’re still by a mile some of the most common people targeted by the broken system.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/disguised-illegal-voters-cost-republicans-midterm-victories-trump-211538601.html?fbclid=IwAR3lJL2gcwuWV-FlXUuZfoJKq23HWzHkH-umydFiuBcvLwJ_tXks1i_CzuY

Trump always finds a way to crush any sense of optimism for his decisions, with his sheer lunacy level conspiracy theory’s...I mean I laughed seeing this, but damn we're doing this now?

[Tani Coyote]

He's going to be trying to undermine confidence in democracy all 2-6 years he's in office.

The good news is most people don't buy it.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/15/politics/cindy-hyde-smith-mississippi-universities-voter-suppression/index.html

On the subject of voter suppression, the Republican in the Mississippi special election has joked that it would be a good thing to suppress the votes of students because they lean liberal.

Her campaign is going the "it's just a joke, gosh!" route with it.

Jokes lose humor when they're very salient to actual issues. When Obama joked about using predator drones on his daughters' boyfriends, of course there was humor in it because it's so patently absurd. By contrast, efforts to make voting harder, that have had disproportionate effects on liberal groups, are very real.

https://www.nj.com/marijuana/2018/11/first_pass_at_legal_weed_could_roll_into_statehouse_in_days_but_full_vote_will_require_joint_effort.html

New Jersey may vote on a legal marijuana bill in the next two weeks.

May. Big May.

New Jersey keeps hitting hurdles due to disagreements on tax rates and the like, and it's kept the bill in limbo for months. Remember that legal pot was one of the big promises of the Murphy campaign, and he's been in office for 10 months now.

I'm almost willing to bet money Congress will get a legal pot bill through sooner. The mood in Washington is shifting dramatically.

[KHCast]

So I’m seeing this topic getting brought up again, so I’m curious. A lot of republicans, trump defenders, etc. seem to cite how trump “fixed” the family separation and mass deportation situation, whereas Obama enforced the problem, while also stating trumps getting unfair backlash whereas supposedly there was none of that from the group attacking trump when Obama was “doing the same thing.” How much of this mentality is true and do you feel Trump is getting too much hate for this issue when other presidents upheld it as well?

[Candescence]

I don't think Nancy Pelosi is going anywhere anytime soon, folks.

Everyone who wants Pelosi's job right now is to the right of her. Cortez's endorsement of Pelosi speaks volumes.

Now, getting rid of Chuck Schumer, on the other hand...

[Bowbowis]

Sooo... This means Ivanka is pure evil, right Republicans?

 

 

[Tani Coyote]

6 hours ago, Candescence said:

I don't think Nancy Pelosi is going anywhere anytime soon, folks.

Everyone who wants Pelosi's job right now is to the right of her. Cortez's endorsement of Pelosi speaks volumes.

Now, getting rid of Chuck Schumer, on the other hand...

I like how Ocasio-Cortez does not cite any names. It's... eyebrow raising.

Of course, that's probably due to the fact no one is running for Speaker yet. It's all hearsay. We know of lots of people who have refused to vote for her as Speaker, but no one has formally stepped up.

I always considered my Dad writing Ocasio-Cortez off as an idiot to be his conservative bias, but perhaps he was onto something with her.

[Candescence]

22 minutes ago, Coyote (Ogilvie) said:

I like how Ocasio-Cortez does not cite any names. It's... eyebrow raising.

Of course, that's probably due to the fact no one is running for Speaker yet. It's all hearsay. We know of lots of people who have refused to vote for her as Speaker, but no one has formally stepped up.

I always considered my Dad writing Ocasio-Cortez off as an idiot to be his conservative bias, but perhaps he was onto something with her.

It's literally just Tim Ryan's blue dog faction agitating against her because she's not conservative enough. Cortez isn't naming names, but anyone who's looking at the people agitating for Pelosi to be replaced can see it isn't the progressives doing it. Hell, Pelosi has been courting votes from progressive congresspeople, which has been annoying the blue dog faction.

[Tani Coyote]

11 minutes ago, Candescence said:

It's literally just Tim Ryan's blue dog faction agitating against her because she's not conservative enough. Cortez isn't naming names, but anyone who's looking at the people agitating for Pelosi to be replaced can see it isn't the progressives doing it.

Tim Ryan's started pushing for single payer though. The moderate social policies he was espousing in 2016 have also shifted leftward.

In an American context it's kind of humorous to call him conservative. He's conservative as much as Bernie Sanders at this point.

Now sure, one could argue that it's a ploy, but so is any political promise potentially. But that ignores that politicians are strategic actors and are quite likely not revealing true preferences, but what they think will sell. Now that single payer is actually considered a serious proposal, it's no surprise a lot of former healthcare moderates are embracing it; it's no longer seen as damaging to a political career.

Plus a "haha I'm not actually a leftist, suckers!" ploy would be hilariously stupid in this context, since the House caucus is parliamentary enough to swiftly do away with any attempted fraudster.

Never mind this analysis discounts Marcia Fudge, who seems pretty darn progressive. She's vocal about Pelosi representing white, wealthy interests even as the party's base is people of color and the working class. She also thinks, quite frankly, Pelosi has been party leader for 16 years and needs to go away, particularly since she's lost so many elections.