The General 'Murican Politics Thread

[8ther]

How powerful of a tool can protesting, and phoning officials be for us during the next 4 years?

Also if the dems do manage to take back some seats during 2018, is it possible for them hinder some of these policies that Trump and the GOP are proposing?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

It really depends.

If the Dems do take back sone seats, then they'll have a much easier time obstructing Trump the same way Republicans did for Obama. But again, depends on how many they get.

[8ther]

How many do they need?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

At least 60, I think. That's what it'll take to mitigate the worst parts of the current administration, but whether they'll reach that mark remains to be seen until the next two years.

[8ther]

How powerful of a tool can protesting and phoning officials be for us during the next 4 years?

[Speederino]

I don't know if this has been mentioned already or if it's still a breaking story, but a Seattle judge has completely and utterly blocked the immigration ban, nationwide.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38864253

[SenEDDtor Missile]

5 minutes ago, Speederino: Hero of Hyrule said:

I don't know if this has been mentioned already or if it's still a breaking story, but a Seattle judge has completely and utterly blocked the immigration ban, nationwide.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38864253

Now watch Trump and his cronies ignore this and/or declare the judge in contempt of America and removed for daring to stand against him.

[Speederino]

1 minute ago, SenEDtor Missile said:

Now watch Trump and his cronies ignore this and/or declare the judge in contempt of America and removed for daring to stand against him.

More likely this is just fake news.

[Nepenthe]

South Dakota Republicans just repealed a bill that would've established an independent ethics agency in the state. The kicker? The people voted for it as a ballot measure during the election, at 52% approval. Republicans ignored that little fact and forced it out by declaring a state of emergency, in turn making sure the measure can't be put on the ballot again next time. No ethical oversight for you, South Dakotans.

[KHCast]

So now votes really don't matter? :| Jesus, republicans will ignore anything to push their plans

[Chris Knopps]

...I'll just say one thing on this topic.

Gonna be an interesting four years to come. If you're going to decide the most amusing way to end it all, who we've chosen is the best way to do it.

Whatever happens, at least it won't be boring now.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

3 minutes ago, KHCast said:

So now votes really don't matter? :| Jesus, republicans will ignore anything to push their plans

Democracy doesn't matter in their new world order.

[Patticus]

33 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

South Dakota Republicans just repealed a bill that would've established an independent ethics agency in the state. The kicker? The people voted for it as a ballot measure during the election, at 52% approval. Republicans ignored that little fact and forced it out by declaring a state of emergency, in turn making sure the measure can't be put on the ballot again next time. No ethical oversight for you, South Dakotans.

I'll bet the next Democratic administration will make sure its AG looks into overturning this shit. It cannot stand. I can only imagine the anger people in South Dakota must be feeling over this dictatorial crap.

[Tani Coyote]

A quick and easy guide to calling representatives in Congress.

If you do call your representatives, always include your ZIP. It gives you more priority because they know you're a constituent.

Keep your call brief and only record your stance on a particular vote. The staff at these places are busy and don't need your reasoning, just your vote.

Beyond calling representatives, always remember the golden thing: turnout for elections. The 2018 elections are the big ones, but 2017 and 2019 have elections as well in certain states. One of the best things you can do is simply show up to vote, and remind friends and family to as well (assuming they're of a similar persuasion, anyway). In addition, make sure photo IDs for you and all you remind stay current, so there's little risk of being denied suffrage on the basis of an inadequate ID.

19 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

At least 60, I think. That's what it'll take to mitigate the worst parts of the current administration, but whether they'll reach that mark remains to be seen until the next two years.

60 is if they want a filibuster-proof majority, assuming McConnell doesn't get rid of the filibuster completely.

51 seats is the current target, so as to mitigate Pence's vote.

Unfortunately, that's a tall order with their current 48 seats. Not only do Democrats need to keep all their current seats (many of which are in red states or states Trump won), but they need to pick up 3 more. Only Nevada is likely to be easy. Arizona is a realistic possibility. But once you're past those two, you're in the hard Republican states. Trump really needs to piss off enough Republican voters that they stay home or defect. When the outcome of the 2018 midterms is likely to hinge on Nebraska of all places...

13 hours ago, KHCast said:

So now votes really don't matter? :| Jesus, republicans will ignore anything to push their plans

Oh, don't worry. The Republican base can fight this sort of thing if they want. It's the reason the Tea Party was able to unseat incumbent Republicans in the 2010 primaries.

The question is if they will. When you primary an incumbent, you run the risk of the opposition Party having a better chance of taking the seat.

Our system is really garbage because it forces us to regularly tolerate the shitlings within our major Party of choice if we want to avoid giving too much slack to the other one.

12 hours ago, Patticus said:

I'll bet the next Democratic administration will make sure its AG looks into overturning this shit. It cannot stand. I can only imagine the anger people in South Dakota must be feeling over this dictatorial crap.

The pessimist in me thinks they'll go along with it because of them evil Demmies.

The least they could do, though, is at least primary the Republicans who voted for it. This shit just shouldn't stand, regardless of Party. They didn't even wait a full election cycle before repealing it.

[Patticus]

Here is the government's own lawyer suggesting that there isn't anything rational about this ban. Let that sink in...

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

20 hours ago, Speederino: Hero of Hyrule said:

More likely this is just fake news.

Guess again:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38868571

 

Quote

US & Canada selected

 

 

US reverses travel ban over court ruling as Trump fumes

• 2 hours ago
• From the section US & Canada

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Image copyright Reuters Image caption Iranian student Behnam Partopour cleared immigration in Boston on Friday

Trump takes office

• Trump's first week: Well, that was intense
• What if Trump tries to bring back torture?
• Which executive actions will have most impact?
• Where Trump stands on key issues

The US authorities have rolled back a controversial travel ban on people from seven mainly Muslim countries after a judge suspended it.

The state department said it was reversing the cancellations of visas, 60,000 of which were revoked after President Donald Trump's order.

Judge James Robart ruled there were legal grounds to challenge the ban.

Mr Trump called the verdict by the Seattle judge "ridiculous" and vowed to restore the ban.

People affected by the ban treated news of the suspension warily as airlines began allowing them to board flights to America on Saturday.

• Trump border policy: Who's affected?

• US entry ban victims vent fury

• Trump border policy: World reacts

So has the ban been lifted completely?

Judge Robart's temporary restraining order on Friday halted the ban with immediate effect.

Since then, the state department has said it is reversing visa cancellations and US homeland security employees have been told by their department to comply with the ruling.

Customs officials told airlines that they could resume boarding banned travellers. Qatar Airways, Air France, Etihad Airways, Lufthansa and others said they would do so.

What can Trump do?

The Trump administration argues that the travel ban is designed to protect the US.

It has promised to seek "at the earliest possible time" an emergency stay that would restore the restrictions.

Meanwhile, the US president has raged against Judge Robard on Twitter.

"The opinion of this so-called judge, which essentially takes law-enforcement away from our country, is ridiculous and will be overturned!" he wrote.

Mr Trump later added in another tweet: "What is our country coming to when a judge can halt a Homeland Security travel ban and anyone, even with bad intentions, can come into U.S.?"

How have those affected by the ban reacted themselves?

"I am very happy that we are going to travel today," Fuad Sharef, an Iraqi with an immigration visa who was prevented along with his family from boarding a flight to New York a week ago, told Reuters news agency from Irbil on Saturday. "Finally, we made it."

  Image copyright Reuters Image caption Fuad Sharef (right) and his family were turned back last month   Image copyright Reuters Image caption The plight of four-month-old Fatemeh has been highlighted in the US Congress

A cardiologist training in the US, who wished to remain anonymous, told BBC News his Syrian wife had recently joined him but people in her situation would not "take the risk of leaving the country in case things change back again".

Among those standing to benefit most from the suspension of the ban is four-month-old Fatemeh Reshad, an Iranian infant with a heart defect who will now receive life-saving surgery in the US after all.

US doctors have pledged to treat her for free, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo said. .

Just how drastic was the ban?

The executive order which has now been suspended banned Syrian refugees indefinitely.

  Image copyright EPA Image caption Protesters in Berlin mocked Mr Trump with a parody of Shepard Fairey's famous poster of Barack Obama

Anyone arriving from Iraq, Syria, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan or Yemen faced a 90-day visa suspension.

Huge protests greeted the ban in the US, where demonstrators swamped airports to convey their message that America still welcomed refugees.

In London on Saturday, protesters converged on the US embassy in Grosvenor Square to vent their anger over Mr Trump's policies.

Smaller protest rallies were also held in Paris and Berlin.

How did Robart halt the ban?

He found that legal challenges launched by two states, Washington and Minnesota, were likely to succeed.

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Media caption"Does the executive order mention the word Islamic, or Muslim?" - Federal Judge James Robart

Washington state Attorney General Bob Ferguson argued the ban was unconstitutional.

"Folks who had visas, folks who were allowed to travel were denied that right without any due process whatsoever - that's un-American and unconstitutional," he told the BBC.

Washington Solicitor General Noah Purcell said the focus of his state's legal challenge was the way the president's order targeted Islam.

Courts in at least four other states - Virginia, New York, Massachusetts and Michigan - are also hearing cases challenging Mr Trump's executive order.

---

'Don't degrade us'

Dr Samuel Jacob, of the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, was born in Syria. His Syrian wife has been unable to join him.

  Image copyright Samuel Jacob

"I am going to meet with my attorney on Tuesday and he will know the latest information about whether my wife can try to come.

"It's hard to really understand the detail of this ruling without speaking to my lawyer and so I can't make a decision about what we can do until then.

"I live and work hard every day in the US to serve everybody and save lives but at the end of the day I still get classified by the government as simply an "x" or a "y" and treated accordingly.

"I work hard for the US and I expect the USA to help me and protect me and let me be with my family, not be degraded in this way."

Now more than ever is the time to keep on the offensive!

[Speederino]

36 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Joranvexeon said:

Guess again:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38868571

I was making fun of Trump :U

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Duly noted,  sorry for the misconception. 

[Tani Coyote]

It's good to see the State Department is following the law and not the boss. This is how we preserve liberty.

What's peculiar is the fact Tillerson is currently serving, and the Department reports to him. Does this mean Tillerson has sided with the Courts?

If so, how long until he feels Donnie's wrath? How long until Trump starts trying to eliminate all the higher ups over at the Department?

Honestly, I'd love if Trump started firing Secretaries days/weeks after they were sworn in. It would really demonstrate how unfit he is for office, when he can't even put together an administration.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

5 minutes ago, Ogilvie said:

It's good to see the State Department is following the law and not the boss. This is how we preserve liberty.

What's peculiar is the fact Tillerson is currently serving, and the Department reports to him. Does this mean Tillerson has sided with the Courts?

If so, how long until he feels Donnie's wrath? How long until Trump starts trying to eliminate all the higher ups over at the Department?

Honestly, I'd love if Trump started firing Secretaries days/weeks after they were sworn in. It would really demonstrate how unfit he is for office, when he can't even put together an administration.

Yeesh, it sounds like Trump thinks the President of the United States is the same position as being the boss of a corporation (ie he can do whatever he want and everyone below him must have absolute obedience to his outrageous whims).

[Tani Coyote]

1 hour ago, SenEDtor Missile said:

Yeesh, it sounds like Trump thinks the President of the United States is the same position as being the boss of a corporation (ie he can do whatever he want and everyone below him must have absolute obedience to his outrageous whims).

Oh, that's exactly what his mentality is. When courts go against him, he feels he can just ignore them.

My guess is he assumes only the Supreme Court can restrain the President (if he will admit that), but that ignores the fact that any federal court with nationwide jurisdiction can do so, it's just the Supreme Court has the final say on a matter barring a constitutional amendment.

Fortunately, the court system is given the dignity of a constitutional monarch in this country. Congress, the people, the various government agencies, etc. all accept their opinion as law. Trump's in the minority when he starts foaming at the mouth about them.

Liberals accepted Citizens United, many conservatives accepted the gay marriage ruling (notice the GOP called for a Court that would either overturn the decision or an amendment that would overturn it, not a blanket "just ignore it."). There's a fundamental respect that the Courts command that no other branch or official can. Trump is being put in his place when his millions of employees say that they answer to the courts first and the President second.

And it's not a terrifying prospect, because Congress is even more powerful than the Court, being able to remove federal judges who become too abusive with power. The Presidency and Supreme Court have a great deal of power due to the concentration of power in one or few individuals, but Congress has the most power by far, distributed across several hundred people from diverse backgrounds. Checks and balances are wonderful.

[8ther]

How well would a grassroots/progressive-leaning Democratic party fair in the 2018 and 2020 elections?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

9 minutes ago, CD Sanic said:

How well would a grassroots/progressive-leaning Democratic party fair in the 2018 and 2020 elections?

Not as well as you'd think considering how it's dominated by the DNC and GOP, although that might depend on how hard they push and the gains they make. It not impossible for a group to make gains, if the Tea Party movement is any indicator, but such a group would have to do a lot of mobilizing.

Might be easier given we now have Trump as our president and he's very unpopular, so who knows?

[Tani Coyote]

Based on anonymous sources from within the White House, Trump signed the Order giving Bannon an NSC seat without being fully briefed.

There's also some more juicy bits in there, such as his preoccupation with watching news in his spare time or how his staffers apparently have trouble finding light switches. Never mind the fact he apparently wanders the halls alone some times, with the White House being so empty that it's rather comparable to the end of Louis XIV's reign over France (comparison mine).

Trump has predictably responded:

Once again, we're in that position where we either have to believe anonymous leaks or the government.

With the sheer volume of them and agreement between them, I'm inclined to believe most of these staff leaks are real, especially if respected papers are reporting on them now.

Trump's also wrong with his typical ad hominem on the Times, as its subscription actually increased in 2016.

13 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Might be easier given we now have Trump as our president and he's very unpopular, so who knows?

A black man was what it took to make the Tea Party crawl out of the woodwork, so hopefully someone as legitimately awful and unqualified as Trump can do the same for the left.

[Solkia]

On 12/10/2016 at 0:58 AM, SenEDtor Missile said:

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Can someone honestly tell me if the right wing have any redeeming traits left at this point? Day in and day out I get bombarded with things showing how utterly awful and hypocritical they are, and all this business with Trump is only making me think more and more that the right wing in it's current state is basically a rabid dog without a leash. It legitimately baffles me how they can think they're saving America and democracy when to me they seem to be willing to let America and the ideals of democracy burn for the sake of appeasing their own fragile ego.

 

I can think of some conservative values that make more sense to me than their liberal counterparts, namely not tying budgets of public services to a government that will refuse to pay for it (Hi Sam Brownback, hows the fallout from your shitty policies on public education going for you?)

They only really have value on the basis our dysfunctional government can't be trusted with public services though, the second they prove they can I don't see how any conservative value would survive. Which is probably why conservative politicians like fucking over the public services they do control.