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The General 'Murican Politics Thread


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12 minutes ago, Dizcrybe said:

If it makes you feel any better, here's an article the intensification of Mueller's investigation.

Use Incognito Mode to read it.

Still feels like it's taking too long. I get that Mueller's trying to make a rock solid case that even Trump can't weasel out of, but at the pace he's going Trump's going to have a full presidency, and I don't want our douchebag in chief to have that much time to sell out our democracy/republic.

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5 hours ago, Chili Dawg said:

Good guys with guns!

Moral kids: if you’re in a shooting, DONT have a opinion that goes against conservatives, use they’ll use their upstanding family values to shit on you, act morally above you, slander your name and question your motives, and threaten to kill you and your family! 

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16 hours ago, SenEDDtor Missile said:

Still feels like it's taking too long. I get that Mueller's trying to make a rock solid case that even Trump can't weasel out of, but at the pace he's going Trump's going to have a full presidency, and I don't want our douchebag in chief to have that much time to sell out our democracy/republic.

These investigations take quite a bit of time - Rome wasn't built in a day. The fact that actual indictments are coming out so quickly and we know people are being flipped so early is actually a surprise. If there wasn't a case to be built around collusion or obstruction of justice, the investigation would be over already. Mueller is running a very tight ship, and we have shockingly little to go on in terms of actual information about what's going on within it, with only actual public requests of documents and court documents providing any kind of insight into what is going on.

We'll only know the full extent of the investigation's aims and evidence when it finally ends. Trump supporters may claim the investigation hasn't provided any evidence of collusion, but that's missing the point - there's nothing to suggest there isn't any evidence or that the investigation team doesn't have it, because they're keeping that information confidential until they are ready to release it... Along with the biggest indictments.

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I don't think anyone really needs an assualt rifle unless they are a collector as it's a right. But at the same time I hear a lot saying ban on sites like Twitter and it's kind of silly cause there is no way. I know some laugh at the good guys with guns thing but I live in a big city one of the first things I was told by local police was if I had a gun as they would not always make it to my house inba quick manner depending in manpower. Plus we have a a shooting occur nearly every night. I'd rather be armed if I ever am faced with that. And I have had people break into my families house vefore. It sucks to think back on

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Even if you do wanna be the mythical "good guy with a gun", a regular ol' handgun will do the trick. You don't need a damn military weapon to defend yourself.

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On 2/25/2018 at 5:50 PM, KHCast said:

The parkland survivors are getting death threats from nra defenders...

https://thinkprogress.org/parkland-shooting-survivor-forced-off-facebook-6fc397ab2b9f/

what the actual fuck

"Liberals are snowflakes"

Jesus christ these people are absolutely horrid and evil. They do not care about the lives of other humans, just themselves. The fact that this is what runs America is god damn scary.

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3 hours ago, KHCast said:

http://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/375791-supreme-court-rules-immigrants-can-be-detained-indefinitely

So even legal immigrants are in danger. This ruling in general is a big loss from the sound of it...

Yet another parallel to the SS that we as a nation fought against. My grandfather is rolling in his grave as we speak.

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3 hours ago, Dizcrybe said:

2020 can't come fast enough.

If he won an election once it's not impossible to win a second time.

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55 minutes ago, Victory Defender said:

If he won an election once it's not impossible to win a second time.

One could say that he has an advantage as the incumbent, as well, but now he is disadvantaged by being the very establishment he railed so hard against. Of course, the 20%~ of Americans who worship him as a deity don't care about that.

Trump fares better in the polls when the bad news is focused on other people, or when the news is pretty calm in general and people focus more on the economy, but election season is anything but a calm news season. There's every chance that Trump will lose - lord knows his agenda's going to be up shit creek if the Democrats can pull that blue wave off this year. It'll be nice to see Ryan ousted as House Majority Leader, too.

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53 minutes ago, Victory Defender said:

If he won an election once it's not impossible to win a second time.

No, but so long as Dems can find a worthy candidate with a solid campaign while converting Trump-based anger into voting energy (and Trump keeps failing to do anything right), he will at the very least have an uphill battle.

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2 hours ago, Patticus said:

One could say that he has an advantage as the incumbent, as well, but now he is disadvantaged by being the very establishment he railed so hard against. Of course, the 20%~ of Americans who worship him as a deity don't care about that.

Trump fares better in the polls when the bad news is focused on other people, or when the news is pretty calm in general and people focus more on the economy, but election season is anything but a calm news season. There's every chance that Trump will lose - lord knows his agenda's going to be up shit creek if the Democrats can pull that blue wave off this year. It'll be nice to see Ryan ousted as House Majority Leader, too.

Call me ignorant but I doubt any misfortune this administration brought upon the country will be recognized by people that have already voted for Trump. If they were okay with voting for an obviously flawed person in the first place I feel like they'd still do it after all that's happened.

1 hour ago, Dizcrybe said:

No, but so long as Dems can find a worthy candidate with a solid campaign while converting Trump-based anger into voting energy (and Trump keeps failing to do anything right), he will at the very least have an uphill battle.

This response goes for both quotes in this text: I doubt democrats will be able to have a candidate worth voting for.

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Seth has been a busy, busy little bee.

It seems likely to me that Mueller knows, or will know, the full details of everything in the Tweets and so much more. More American indictments are an inevitability at this stage, the only question is, who will it be? And will they have their crimes forgotten about in exchange for guilty pleas and cooperation with investigators,  as Gates has?

Plea bargains are such bullshit. I can see reduced sentences, yeah, that's fine, but just forgetting the crimes ever happened at all? Really?

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8 hours ago, Victory Defender said:

Call me ignorant but I doubt any misfortune this administration brought upon the country will be recognized by people that have already voted for Trump. If they were okay with voting for an obviously flawed person in the first place I feel like they'd still do it after all that's happened.

Trump's base has actually shrunk considerably since the election. I'd wager most of the people who voted for him in 2016 would stay home in 2020.

Hopefully.

8 hours ago, Victory Defender said:

I doubt democrats will be able to have a candidate worth voting for.

That depends on whether or not you think it's worth risking four more years of Trump by staying home or voting third-party with a clear conscience because Dems didn't pick a candidate that was Literally Jesus.

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Many of Trump's devotes cannot be swayed, they are too far gone in crazy town, that is true.

But they are not the reason, Trump won. Trump won because too many on the other side didn't show up in the sates where it mattered. You can blame that on Hillz, Bernie, Russia, Jeb, whoever, but fact is if a few more folks Pokemon Went-To-The-Polls we'd have had one more nineties reboot right now, int he form of a Clinton Presidency.

So, yeah, many Trumpers (not all mind you, so this is not to say we should not attempt to engage and educate and inform people) will not be swayed, but people on the fence who are often inclined to just stay out of things probably can be. That's the pool we ought to be trying to pull from. Turnout is the thing we really need to push.

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So Ducks will no longer sell the rifles or assualt style. I've been reading comments both from you lost customers to yay thanks for thinking of kids and I'm still puzzled . While I'm pretty sure most here have never used a rifle let alone a handgun I'm still amazed to myself that all I hear is just squabbling over the evils of guns and noting on Cruz.  besides that he's in jail   I then ask what changed? How did my grandfather, father and me and most my generation make it through school and college without issue outside of Columbian. Why are these weapons so evil now? Did the get up and start moving? Why not ask why the kid did this. What made him break. All I see is people trying to avoid blame by blaming a object that needs a user. From police calls 30 times, the fbi ignoring, to kids being threatened and teachers doing anything. Granted no one needs A assualt rifle unless hunting big game. But I've seen plenty that buy them just to collect like cars.  Some have said mental health issues and treatments but how would you go about that?

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6 hours ago, Chili Dawg said:

Many of Trump's devotes cannot be swayed, they are too far gone in crazy town, that is true.

But they are not the reason, Trump won. Trump won because too many on the other side didn't show up in the sates where it mattered. You can blame that on Hillz, Bernie, Russia, Jeb, whoever, but fact is if a few more folks Pokemon Went-To-The-Polls we'd have had one more nineties reboot right now, int he form of a Clinton Presidency.

The 2017 Virginia elections and Alabama special election are perfect examples of this. Democrats have the numbers. They have the support. They just need the votes.

The left needs to go to the polls as if their life depended on it. And it does.

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While I'm pretty sure most here have never used a rifle let alone a handgun I'm still amazed to myself that all I hear is just squabbling over the evils of guns and noting on Cruz.  besides that he's in jail  

No one says "guns are evil". People are saying "kids, mentally ill people, etc. are not responsible enough to own a gun" and "there is no reason for AR-15s and automatic rifles to be on the market". It's called gun control for a reason. The recklessness and irresponsibility has gone unchecked, and people are fed up. People just want something similar to the process of getting your driver's license, and they want regulations similar to things like seat belts in your cars, or an age limit like consuming alcohol. If you are a responsible, law-abiding, mature gun owner, you would be completely fine. If you are mentally ill, or a teenager, et cetera, you would not.

 

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How did my grandfather, father and me and most my generation make it through school and college without issue outside of Columbian.

Because semi-automatic weapons were banned. Because, before Trump lifted it, there was a ban on mentally ill people owning guns.

I assume you meant Columbine, not Columbian, But that's me getting somewhat off-topic there. The point is that there were some regulations, and they cut down on the mass shootings. Mass shootings didn't happen on the scale they do today, because it wasn't easy to do. Nowadays, those effective regulations are gone. And that's why the mass shootings have gone up. In fact, they skyrocketed after the semi-automatic weapon ban was lifted in the mid-2000s.

 

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Why not ask why the kid did this. What made him break.

Okay, let me put it this way. If you see a child beating up another kid with a stick, what would you do?

Will you:

A. ask the kid doing the beating "what made him break", as if he's made a rational decision or did something harmless

B. Take away the stick so they can't hurt anyone anymore and wait until they're old enough to understand and be more responsible

C. Just give everyone sticks and spread the flames

D. Do nothing and just offer "thoughts and prayers" to the kid that was beaten, not even solving the problem

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All I see is people trying to avoid blame by blaming a object that needs a user.

It doesn't matter if it "needs a user". These "objects" are things that are specifically designed to kill things. And some of these objects are things that are designed to kill many things in a very small period of time. These aren't teddy bears. And people want regulations so a person has to prove that they can handle the responsiblities that owning a gun has.
 

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Granted no one needs A assualt rifle unless hunting big game. But I've seen plenty that buy them just to collect like cars.

The Second Amendment didn't become a thing because "muh guns are cool and I'm going to buy a crap ton of them because muh guns".

1. At the time, guns were actually very crappy. No, really. There's a reason why American Revolutionary War battles were fought the way they were. The Founding Fathers created the Second Amendment at a time where the only guns that existed were muskets and handguns. Not semi-automatic rifles. A mass school shooting in the 1780s was impossible. In fact, it wasn't guarenteed that you murder even one person. So, the "right to bear arms" is outdated and has some loopholes that need addressing. If we just kept the Constitution and its amendments stagnant with no adjustments for the current times, then slavery would still exist. Women would not be able to vote. The President could have infinite terms. Hell, there's even an amendment in the Constitution that was added, then removed (Prohibition, which banned alcohol). Things change. Depending on the situation, you either give it regulations, you ban it altogether, or add in another amendment that addresses loopholes. The second choice is not being suggested at all.

2. At the time, Americans had to rely on guns a lot more to protect themselves. It was more than just "fighting a tyrannic government". They were under threat by Native Americans almost daily. The law system was not as effective as it is today, so who knew what danger you'd have to face. They were still dealing with countries such as France and Britain on their borders, the latter of which was obviously hostile to them at the time. This may all sound like delusional paranoia, but this was the 1780s. In this case, there really were threats everywhere. Using your fists would not be enough against hostility on such a large scale. I know I talked about the crappy gun technology making killings difficult a moment ago, but when you're up against things like the element of surprise, Native American bows/arrows (some had guns too), sheer numbers of hostile humans, and just the simple risk of losing your life by a weapon being a thing, then yeah, suddenly that technology no longer matters. So, once again, it makes sense that they decided on the "right to bear arms".

3. Hunting was a lot more prominent back then. Animal rights didn't really exist, and hunting was one of the very few methods for settlers to get food. They relied on guns to hunt efficently.

Long story short, guns were less dangerous back then and the time period made them pretty much necessary. If the Founding Fathers knew of what would become of America and gun technology, or if they had been making the Constitution in modern times, I highly doubt they would've had an amendment that only says "have guns". And there definitely wouldn't be as many loopholes.

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My phone must like columbia.  I meant Columbian. Ok what you said my phones going to keep changing it.

 

Your points sound pretty sound. So let me ask this. 3d printers can make guns. Some of the rifles used had no serial as all guns are supposed to. How do you regulate that.

 

On the stick part is do like they did us I sv.v Lol. I'd take the stick and put the beater in time out or call his parents.

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3 hours ago, Meta77 said:

3d printers can make guns.

Yep, they can. However, the good news is that there are very solid reasons why 3D printer guns don't get much attention. They're crap. As in, they can't take much repeated firing, their accuracy is horrid, and they're unpredictible. They're hard to get, complicated to make, and expensive. If a mass shooter wanted to get a gun, this would not be their choice of weapon. Odds are, a gun control controversy will not involve 3D printer guns.

The bad news is that, well, regulations don't really exist. Currently, the only 3D-printer specific regulation is that all 3D printer guns must be able to be picked up by a metal detector, which. Because of this, plastic-only 3D printed firearms must have a metal plate inserted into the printed body. Coincidentally, One bit of regulation that can help is something related to your second point, and that's extending the serial number requirement to 3D printer guns. At the moment, you cannot trace 3D printer guns.

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Some of the rifles used had no serial as all guns are supposed to. How do you regulate that.

The law nowadays is that all guns must have a serial number. If it has one, you cannot remove it. You cannot damage it. You can, however, move it to a different location on the gun, as long as the number is legible, the number is the same, and the number is around the same size as the original was.

However, there a few loopholes for this, including the "all guns" thing. The serial number requirement applies more so for selling the gun, not owning it.

1. You can get away with not having a serial number on the gun if it was made before 1968, the year the requirement became law, and it didn't previous have a number. If a pre-1968 gun did have a serial number, and it was removed, then that's when you could get in trouble.

2. If you make the gun yourself, you can also get away with no serial number. However, you have to get a serial number if you want to sell it and stop using it for personal use. And you need a license to sell any firearms. The downside? You don't need a license to make a gun and/or register one.  So yes, not only can a mentally ill person or teenager just go out and buy a gun, but they could literally make one themselves and get away with not having a serial number or a license. And yes, they can even make their own semi-automatic rifle. Not even kidding.

3. As I said earlier, 3D printer guns do not have serial numbers.

4. If, somehow, the gun was manufactured without a serial number and you bought it, then that's legal.

Long story short, loopholes need to be sorted out. And dammit semi-automatic weapons should be banned (again). I can understand handguns, but good lord. Once that semi-automatic ban got lifted all hell broke loose.

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I'd take the stick and put the beater in time out or call his parents.

Exactly. Now, imagine if the sticks weren't actually taken and you only did a third of that. You stop the beating, but you don't put any effort into preventing further beatings with sticks. Therefore, you enable more beatings. That's the problem. Obviously guns are more complicated than a stick, so you can put a lot more effort into regulations than a stick, but it was just an analogy to explain why you can't just punish someone who had harmed someone with a weapon and expect it to be a one-time thing. You're not closing loopholes. You're just ignoring them and setting up the next tragedy.

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11 minutes ago, SSF1991 said:

Yep, they can. However, the good news is that there are very solid reasons why 3D printer guns don't get much attention. They're crap. As in, they can't take much repeated firing, their accuracy is horrid, and they're unpredictible. They're hard to get, complicated to make, and expensive. If a mass shooter wanted to get a gun, this would not be their choice of weapon. Odds are, a gun control controversy will not involve 3D printer guns.

The bad news is that, well, regulations don't really exist. Currently, the only 3D-printer specific regulation is that all 3D printer guns must be able to be picked up by a metal detector, which. Because of this, plastic-only 3D printed firearms must have a metal plate inserted into the printed body. Coincidentally, One bit of regulation that can help is something related to your second point, and that's extending the serial number requirement to 3D printer guns. At the moment, you cannot trace 3D printer guns.

The law nowadays is that all guns must have a serial number. If it has one, you cannot remove it. You cannot damage it. You can, however, move it to a different location on the gun, as long as the number is legible, the number is the same, and the number is around the same size as the original was.

However, there a few loopholes for this, including the "all guns" thing. The serial number requirement applies more so for selling the gun, not owning it.

1. You can get away with not having a serial number on the gun if it was made before 1968, the year the requirement became law, and it didn't previous have a number. If a pre-1968 gun did have a serial number, and it was removed, then that's when you could get in trouble.

2. If you make the gun yourself, you can also get away with no serial number. However, you have to get a serial number if you want to sell it and stop using it for personal use. And you need a license to sell any firearms. The downside? You don't need a license to make a gun and/or register one.  So yes, not only can a mentally ill person or teenager just go out and buy a gun, but they could literally make one themselves and get away with not having a serial number or a license. And yes, they can even make their own semi-automatic rifle. Not even kidding.

3. As I said earlier, 3D printer guns do not have serial numbers.

4. If, somehow, the gun was manufactured without a serial number and you bought it, then that's legal.

Long story short, loopholes.

Exactly. Now, imagine if the sticks weren't actually taken and you only did a third of that. You stop the beating, but you don't put any effort into preventing further beatings with sticks. Therefore, you enable more beatings. That's the problem. Obviously guns are more complicated than a stick, so you can put a lot more effort into regulations than a stick, but it was just an analogy to explain why you can't just punish someone who had harmed someone with a weapon and expect it to be a one-time thing. You're not closing loopholes. You're just ignoring them and setting up the next tragedy.

Hmm *rubs chin* i  get what your getting at there on the loophole issues.

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18 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

Hmm *rubs chin* i  get what your getting at there on the loophole issues.

It doesn't help that...well...some people are really obsessed with guns. Like it's not even so much as a "I just collect them" thing, as you've said before. I cannot stress how much more effort has been put into defending worshipping guns than protecting the lives of innocent children.

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