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The General 'Murican Politics Thread

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Not surprised, to be honest.

That said, we’re definitely overreacting to the idea that this will get us killed. At best (worst?), this’ll just convince Iran to develop their program and be more of a threat to Israel and might provoke an bigger arms race. Beyond that is the question of what’ll happen next.”?

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On the flipside, every other state has announced its intent to keep the agreement, and Iran its intent to keep it with them. Iran's President has directed the relevant government bodies to prepare for full resumption of enrichment if the deal falls apart, though.

The other states - Russia, China, and the European allies - have agreed the Iranians are doing their part of the deal. It's a surreal moment when the day Russia, China and the West can finally agree on something, the USA wants to pull out.

Fortunately, the long-term damage from this may not be too great. Europe is currently struggling with secessionist sentiments that keep the EU from developing into a replacement for Washington, while a lot of East Asian states would much rather deal with the USA's issues than be under Beijing's influence.

Still, it's a real dropping of the ball, because now previously hostile regimes have less reason to trust us when we try rapprochement.

Or at the very least, they have less reason to trust executive agreements. Trump has established that you should give an executive agreement as much weight as DACA or the Mexico City Policy - it's kind of worthless when Congress doesn't have a hand in things.

The GOP's hands are kind of tied here. Treatymaking rests with the President, so they need to get Trump to work something out with Iran that they can ratify, that also makes Democrats happy.

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6 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

That said, we’re definitely overreacting to the idea that this will get us killed. At best (worst?), this’ll just convince Iran to develop their program and be more of a threat to Israel and might provoke an bigger arms race.

Because we have an incompetent fool in the White House that has no care for human decency, and likes to do shit on impulse, sometimes without thinking or without Plan Bs. His administration has war-hawks, including people that have supported bombing Iran. He's bragged about the country's nuclear arsenal to North Korea, and has threatened "fire and fury" on them. World tension has increased by quite a bit since his term began because of his stupid decisions.

I think it's completely understandable why people are so damn concerned and scared that he will get us killed. The only reason he hasn't is because pretty much everyone else isn't as war-hungry and stupid as he, his administration, and his base is. And, to be honest, Iran with nukes is absolutely fucking scary. Any country with nukes is fucking scary.

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On the flipside, every other state has announced its intent to keep the agreement, and Iran its intent to keep it with them. Iran's President has directed the relevant government bodies to prepare for full resumption of enrichment if the deal falls apart, though.

What about the sanctions that Trump's trying to put onto Iran? Won't that cause problems for the deal? And with this whole thing? Hearing things like this isn't helping matters.

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10 hours ago, SSF1991 said:

Because we have an incompetent fool in the White House that has no care for human decency, and likes to do shit on impulse, sometimes without thinking or without Plan Bs. His administration has war-hawks, including people that have supported bombing Iran. He's bragged about the country's nuclear arsenal to North Korea, and has threatened "fire and fury" on them. World tension has increased by quite a bit since his term began because of his stupid decisions.

Yeah, but at the same time said incompetent fool has been hamstrung and is making a mockery of himself to the point he’ll do far more damage to himself and our relations than with anyone’s lives.

And mind you, he’s making those kinds of threats toward countries that have practically zero capability of actually threatening the US (our allies on the other hand, are a different story). I’d be far more concerned to how this will affect Israel, who last I checked never wanted the deal either—that and the degredation of trust other countries will have with the US in the near future thanks to this administration. Yet you notice he isn’t pulling this shit with countries that actually could attack us, even if limited, like China and Russia—no, he goes for trade wars and (bluffs of) sanctions for that instead.

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I think it's completely understandable why people are so damn concerned and scared that he will get us killed. The only reason he hasn't is because pretty much everyone else isn't as war-hungry and stupid as he, his administration, and his base is.

I never said it wasn’t understandable, I said it was an overreaction that it would get us killed simply because he pulled the US out of the deal.

To be frank, Obama’s decision to launch a cyber-attack with Isreal on Iran’s centrifuges should have already brought us to that brink, but it didn’t. So as stupid as this decision was, there is no reason to think Trump pulling from the deal would bring death onto us.

In the chance that something as a result of this administrative could get us killed, it sure as hell wouldn’t be from Iran who doesn’t have anywhere near the technological nor logistical capability to touch the US. They’d have a better shot pulling that on Israel, and even Iran isn’t crazy enough to do that given how powerful Isreal is and how much more powerful their allies are.

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And, to be honest, Iran with nukes is absolutely fucking scary. Any country with nukes is fucking scary.

You say that, and yet that ignores the fundamental reason countries seek nukes in the first place: deterrence.

Let’s be real: As destructive and dangerous nuclear weapons are, an Iran with nukes wouldn’t be any more (or less) dangerous than North Korea is, particularly to countries that 1) already have nukes, 2) have magnitude more by comparison due to having a head start, 3) would more than likely take them down with them if they get any smart ideas of pushing the button (and that’s not getting into those who have Second Strike capability). It’s why India and Pakistan haven’t launched theirs at each other, and they’re right next to each other.

There’s a reason the US and Soviet Union went 40 years without firing a single shot at each other, despite some pretty damn close calls. Heck, it’s the reason North Korea is careful not to provoke the US, and we all thought the same with them as with Iran for decades while waiting for them to push the button (and also why the US doesn’t attack North Korea because they don’t want China getting involved).

I’m not saying we should let them have nukes, but if they did, they’re not going to start lobbing them at a moments notice. Not even North Korea did that when they got nukes—people will just shift strategies, and might have to listen to what Iran wants to say (which is probably another reason why they don’t want them with nukes, because then they lose leverage to a weaker country. An no hegemon wants that).

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On 5/9/2018 at 4:24 AM, SSF1991 said:

He's bragged about the country's nuclear arsenal to North Korea, and has threatened "fire and fury" on them

And for all we know, that was what actually needed to be done all along.

 

On 5/9/2018 at 4:24 AM, SSF1991 said:

And, to be honest, Iran with nukes is absolutely fucking scary.

Pakistan, actual-state-sponsored-terrorism-loving Pakistan (as opposed to "mostly theoretical terrorist GOP boogeyman Iran"), will have officially have their twentieth official anniversary with nuclear weapons in two weeks. They built them pretty much entirely with the threat of using them if they were ever attacked at all; and then did a very hard stare at the Indian government and muttered "and you can fucking suck my dick, Ghandi." The US pays money and provides support (or at least did for a while after 9/11) so they are secure, since actual terrorists (again, as opposed to the theoretical ones Iran loves so much) have deliberately gone after them in the years since. Pakistan is even one of the biggest names that pops up from where North Korea and Iran were getting all of their stuff to begin with.

 

You haven't died from them, and are in no real danger of doing so; so even assuming Iran does vindicate the GOP domestically by immediately resuming nuclear weapons testing and completely tearing up the agreement with other countries, Iran with nuclear weapons is not even in the top 3 for countries in the region that may respond to hostile threat with such arms. They weren't even big on developing chemical weapons when Hussein was actively hurling the things at them for eight years and also trying to build nuclear weapons himself.

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22 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

And mind you, he’s making those kinds of threats toward countries that have practically zero capability of actually threatening the US (our allies on the other hand, are a different story). I’d be far more concerned to how this will affect Israel, who last I checked never wanted the deal either—that and the degredation of trust other countries will have with the US in the near future thanks to this administration. Yet you notice he isn’t pulling this shit with countries that actually could attack us, even if limited, like China and Russia—no, he goes for trade wars and (bluffs of) sanctions for that instead.

Tbh I wouldn’t be shocked if he does start shit with a large power in the future tbh that results in some form of retaliation.(or if something he says gets leaked) I have doubts trumps impulsive boggling behavior is reserved for only areas with little power to do anything. The guy also seems war happy and not afraid to step on whatever to get what he wants, and that’s definitely a concern. He’s always making baffling decisions daily that throw off even his own administration, I don’t think I can ever 100% write off any option with the man.

also saw this. Thoughts?

C2FB9977-FC51-41E1-9681-64B7869D6820.jpeg

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3 hours ago, KHCast said:

Tbh I wouldn’t be shocked if he does start shit with a large power in the future tbh that results in some form of retaliation.(or if something he says gets leaked) I have doubts trumps impulsive boggling behavior is reserved for only areas with little power to do anything. The guy also seems war happy and not afraid to step on whatever to get what he wants, and that’s definitely a concern. He’s always making baffling decisions daily that throw off even his own administration, I don’t think I can ever 100% write off any option with the man.

I wouldn’t be shocked either, but at the same time he can only do as much as his keys to power are willing to follow his orders. Provided he doesn’t side step it by firing them.

Thay being said, even that has limits given that he’s been trying his hardest to fire Muller, and yet to no avail. Goes to show the US presidency isn’t as powerful as we would think.

3 hours ago, KHCast said:

also saw this. Thoughts?

C2FB9977-FC51-41E1-9681-64B7869D6820.jpeg

I’d take it with a grain of salt, but it does prove interesting and might be a massive scandal and death blow to the NRA if true.

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21 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

He may not be the brightest in the world but I doubt many know the difference between the two (without googling) it. 

...are we really gonna pull this to defend the guy?

gates specifically went on to say barely anyone actually thinks of these as remotely similar. Most people aren’t seriously that stupid, especially when not that long ago there was a crisis among lgbt people specifically regarding HIV that got literally the entire countries attention. Hell HIV was taught about in school...least in my health class. Acting like most don’t know the difference unless they google it is just ridiculous 

 

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2 hours ago, Meta77 said:

He may not be the brightest in the world but I doubt many know the difference between the two (without googling) it. 

The fact that we have phones to give us a literal library-in-the-pocket that is Google to tell us in the first place should be an indicator of how someone should be able to know given that it takes all but ten-fucking-seconds to look up the difference.

Even Trump should be capable of that given all the time he makes Twitter Tantrums. He’s wasn’t being asked to do rocket science there.

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2 hours ago, KHCast said:

...are we really gonna pull this to defend the guy?

gates specifically went on to say barely anyone actually thinks of these as remotely similar. Most people aren’t seriously that stupid, especially when not that long ago there was a crisis among lgbt people specifically regarding HIV that got literally the entire countries attention. Hell HIV was taught about in school...least in my health class. Acting like most don’t know the difference unless they google it is just ridiculous 

 

I get most really really outright just hate the guy. I am just saying not everyone knows what it is. Hell I didnt know what HIV was till late into high school. They never taught it to us in school. I learned from tv specials of people with it.

 

And yes google is there but Ive asked plenty of people things I could have googled but do it just in the spur of the moment cause I like hearing people tell me stuff to learn. No defending the guy espically not on this board but to get mad over this is just kind of eh?

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Nobody is mad. We’re rightfully calling him an idiot. He’s not some high schooler, he's well old enough to know about the two by now. Given he’s been called incompetent by those in his administration, I don’t see why defending or justifying is needed here. Plain and simple the guy is idiotic in more ways than one. That’s not a attack, that’s a backed statement 

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3 hours ago, Tornado said:

I think the biggest question is why did Trump consider Bill Gates to be an expert on AIDS?

This is the man who asked his national security adviser if a strong dollar or weak dollar was better for the economy, so it shows how much logic is in deciding who to ask questions of.

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So I just got this news story from my FaceBook feed so I apologize if it means nothing and/or contains many inaccuracies because I can't be arsed to Google right now.  But apparently a federal judge has ruled that Trump can not block people on Twitter on the basis of political views.  As social media garners an increasingly large presence in modern living, this makes me question quite a few things.  For one, the fact that a personal Twitter account, even a Twitter account of someone with as much power as the president, can be considered a "public forum" and thus be dis-entitled to the protections of any other Twitter account does raise an alarming precedence that could potentially be exploited later by a particularly malicious party (though I don't think it's that likely).  I also firmly believe in the interpretation that the first amendment allows you a right to free speech, but not right to be heard.  So even if they're political opinions I agree with, I'm a little iffy on the "you have to give these guys a platform" ruling at play.

On the other hand, as stated, the Twitter account of the president of the United States is an incredibly different beast than someone random person's Sonic blog or whatever.  It naturally carries a lot more weight, and because the account is a public forum between a government figure and the public, this does create a discrepancy in circumstances.  And it would be... well, dishonest in many ways to use "it's a personal account" as a justification for anything when the "personal" account does, indeed, operate as a public forum and is used consistently to sway public interests and to market a campaign.  You can't have your cake and eat it, too, in other words.

Anyway, it'll be interesting what, if anything, this could mean for social media in politics in the long run.

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I’m sure I remember Twitter saying that they can’t suspend Trump’s account for all the hateful things he spouts there. Guess now it goes further than that.

In other news, that summit the world has been waiting for between Trump and Kim Jong-un, is no longer happening. Trump has pulled out, citing “tremendous anger and open hostility in their most recent statement”.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44242558

I don’t know what to feel about this.

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Welp, as if the NFL wasn’t shit already, they’re now a tyranny. Now players can’t kneel during the anthem to protest, or they’ll get fined. Oh but jimbob can grab a hotdog and beer still during it, don’t worry. And people in the crowd and chat, sit, whatever still during it.

https://www.motherjones.com/media/2018/05/nfl-national-anthem-trump-colin-kaepernick-policy/

And trumps gloating naturally and letting it go to his head

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/05/24/politics/trump-nfl-national-anthem/index.html

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4 hours ago, PaddyFancy said:

I’m sure I remember Twitter saying that they can’t suspend Trump’s account for all the hateful things he spouts there. Guess now it goes further than that.

In other news, that summit the world has been waiting for between Trump and Kim Jong-un, is no longer happening. Trump has pulled out, citing “tremendous anger and open hostility in their most recent statement”.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44242558

I don’t know what to feel about this.

I’m actually surprised it was Trump who pulled out and not Kim Jong-un given that the North Koreans historically never honored their words to the spirit or letter.

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15 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

I’m actually surprised it was Trump who pulled out and not Kim Jong-un given that the North Koreans historically never honored their words to the spirit or letter.

I’m just more disturbed that North Korea of all places is saner than Trump.

https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2018/5/24/1766734/-Trump-cancels-meeting-with-North-Korea-s-Kim-citing-tremendous-anger-and-open-hostility?detail=emaildkre

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