The General 'Murican Politics Thread

[Patticus]

44 minutes ago, SenEDtor Missile said:

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/1/21/1623180/-Canadians-French-British-Denied-Entry-to-the-United-States-to-attend-Protest-March

As if this wasn't more evidence of our new administration being racist control freaks.

Have they actually handed down orders to prohibit foreign entry to people believed or known to be going to participate in protests?

[SenEDDtor Missile]

2 minutes ago, Patticus said:

Have they actually handed down orders to prohibit foreign entry to people believed or known to be going to participate in protests?

I'm...not sure. I think I jumped the gun again.

That being said, while it's not necessarily evidence of the administration, it does seem to be evidence that a lot of bigoted and controlling people are becoming bolder in their beliefs and are acting it out via stuff like this.

[Candescence]

16 hours ago, Noelgilvie said:

Neo-Nazi Richard Spencer got punched twice by a protester. Again, my thoughts on violence are obvious, but I’m not crying any tears for him.

Normally I wouldn't condone violence against someone because of their beliefs, but I'd make a limited exception for Nazis. Fuck those guys, they deserve neither respect nor credibility.

[Tani Coyote]

http://www.dcclothesline.com/2017/01/22/skywriter-trolls-anti-trump-womensmarch-in-sydney/

In a case of trolling meeting real life, during the Women's March in Sydney, a skywriter wrote "Trump" in the sky. The company was paid $4,000 for the job.

I feel bad for laughing a little at it. That said, I think more Trump supporters should do this.

...mostly so they're nice and bankrupt come the 2018 and 2020 elections, and not in much of a position to financially back him or his allies.

13 hours ago, Nepenthe said:

We're already past the point where a non-significant amount of people believe everything that comes out of the administration's mouth as undeniable fact and that any other media outlet is fake news.

I'm actually really depressed to think politics is going to be even more polarized post-Trump. He's crafting his own reality that will make it even harder for bipartisan compromise and cooperation down the road. If we can't even agree on facts, how are supposed to make policy?

I wouldn't be surprised if he creates his own news outlet post-Presidency that makes Fox News look like a paragon of truth.

11 hours ago, Candescence said:

Normally I wouldn't condone violence against someone because of their beliefs, but I'd make a limited exception for Nazis. Fuck those guys, they deserve neither respect nor credibility.

I give neither, I just hold right to safety in one's person nigh-inalienable (even if a person is one of those types it would be best to not exist at all). Easy to identify extremes, but less extreme cases won't be so clear cut. The imminent threat doctrine is a good yardstick to prevent wider violence.

[Patticus]

5 hours ago, Noelgilvie said:

I'm actually really depressed to think politics is going to be even more polarized post-Trump. He's crafting his own reality that will make it even harder for bipartisan compromise and cooperation down the road. If we can't even agree on facts, how are supposed to make policy?

This election was never going to be a political panacea. Given how ugly it was, how hard fought it was on both sides, the sheer level of overt dishonesty that we were witness to, whomever won would have inherited an incredibly polarized America - and it's going to get worse before it gets better. Hell, I'm not sure at this stage if reversing the country's polarization is even possible.

The Trump reality-crafting exercise is an infuriating one, because now he has "Alternative Facts" (gussied up lies) on his side, and you know that he and his supporters are going to use them at every turn - including taking credit for the economic boom that may be on the way as a longer-term result of the Obama administration's economic policies. How we will break their armor of ignorance and undo their web of sincerely believed deceits I don't know, but we're going to have to, somehow, or the next election is going to go awry fast.

5 hours ago, Noelgilvie said:

I wouldn't be surprised if he creates his own news outlet post-Presidency that makes Fox News look like a paragon of truth.

There was a spot reserved for "Trump News" at Trump's "victory party" on election night. It's thought that if he had lost, he would have leaped right into the news market.

[KHCast]

Well Trumps keeping himself busy it seems 

[Toa Axis]

The only real good thing there is the TPP thing.

[Tani Coyote]

I support free trade for the simple fact it creates more good than harm, but the way the TPP was negotiated indicates it's not the right way to pursue it. So, +1 for President Trump.

If Trump really wants to gut the federal workforce, he should institute a basic income. With that, we could eliminate a ton of government jobs and simply expand the IRS a little.

[KHCast]

1 step forward for trump 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-abortion-men_us_5886369be4b0e3a7356a7910

100 back(going into detail from that one story in the pic I posted if you're curious)

[Tani Coyote]

The Mexico City Policy being reversed/implemented over and over is fairly standard procedure.

It would have been nice if he revised the policy so that funds can be given to these organizations, they just can't be used in actual abortions.

It always struck me as a bit draconian to punish groups like PP just because a small percentage of what they do is abortions. By paying for family planning, we avert far, far more abortions.

[Toa Axis]

So, two Republican senators have proposed a new healthcare plan, and it's uh... Not exactly the "repeal and replace" plan I was envisioning, especially after years of hooting and hollering. But, this is only one proposal, so different ones could potentially (probably will) surface.

Quote

Sens. Bill Cassidy of Louisiana and Susan Collins of Maine unveiled a bill that they are describing as an "Obamacare replacement plan." The duo is promising that the proposal would give more power to the states on health care policy, increase access to affordable insurance and help cover millions of Americans who are currently uninsured.

At the core of their proposal: Any state that likes Obamacare can keep it.

"Republicans think that if you like your insurance, you should keep it. And we mean it," Cassidy said. "They could opt to stay in Obamacare or they could opt for no federal help. So, California and New York, you love Obamcare? You can keep it."

Quote

ollins, a moderate Republican, has been particularly vocal in insisting that Republicans should not vote to repeal major parts of Obamacare until there is clarity on a replacement plan.

She said Monday that it is imperative for Republicans lawmakers to ensure that patients don't experience "needless and avoidable gaps in coverage," and that the party must put fourth legislation to replace Obamacare now. 

"We recognize that our bill is not perfect. It is still a work in progress. I expect that we will get many ideas from my colleagues for further refinements and we are completely open to that," Collins said. "But if we do not start putting specific legislation on the table that can be debated, refined, amended and enacted, then we will fail the American people."

The Cassidy-Collins bill, the Louisiana Republican said, would allow states to implement the replacement plan of their hcoice by 2019: "By the time 2020 rolls around, everything's done," Cassidy said.

Quote

Republicans in Congress have already begun the legislative process of overhauling the law. On Day One of the new Congress, Republican senators used a budget maneuver to start the repeal process, although a final repeal bill is not likely to land on President Donald Trump's desk for some weeks, even possibly months.

And within hours of being sworn in as president, Trump issued an executive order that could eventually have wide-ranging impact on Obamacare. Among other things, it directs the secretary of health and human services and agencies to interpret regulations as loosely as allowed under the law to minimize the burden on individuals, insurers, health care providers and others. 

Collins called the executive order "very confusing" and difficult to interpret.

"I think that the executive order is very confusing, we really don't know yet what the impact will be," she said.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/23/politics/collins-cassidy-obamacare-repeal/index.html

Sooo, yeah, people in Red states get kinda fucked.

[Tani Coyote]

The proposal makes no sense. It's still Obamacare Lite because federal funding is still part of it based on the wording.

Also, for the most part, it just legalizes the status quo, since a lot of red states have simply refused to expand Medicaid coverage in their state, which was the biggest contributor to the expansion of the insured.

In other words... it's a brilliant move. They're posing it as a "repeal," but they're just formalizing the status quo.

On the other hand, I think this would make red state voters realize how screwed they are. The blue states get federal help to cover far more people with their Medicaid, while the red states don't?

I can't see the proposal going too far... but on the other hand, 2 moderate Republicans brings the Democrat caucus up to 50. All they need is 1 more vote to preclude Pence's participation (or maybe Hell freezes over and Pence swings in favor of the proposal), and voila, it's a done deal. All that said, Democrats don't seem open to a states' rights approach to this, so I assume it will die.

Even though really, it's probably the best option for now.

[Nepenthe]

"We're gonna repeal and replace it! Osht, it'll destabilize health markets and drop millions of people suddenly and simultaneously. Uhhh, uhhhh, I don't fucking know. You can choose to keep it if you want to."

GOP run by fucking clowns who don't even have the balls to fulfill one of the few promises they were consistent on.

[Patticus]

56 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

GOP run by fucking clowns who don't even have the balls to fulfill one of the few promises they were consistent on.

To be honest though, I've never been more pleased to see a clown.

[Tani Coyote]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/02/us/politics/republicans-congress-trump-white-house.html

Two-thirds of Republican Congressmen have never served with a GOP President. In other terms: they're not used to actually governing, just saying no. They really are the party of no. They have a difficult position in that many built their career on the basis of opposing everything the government did, but now that they are in control of it, they no longer have that luxury. It's a similar position to how Trump can no longer use outsider status to his advantage.

While the GOP Senate is likely going to be under pressure to scrap the filibuster entirely, McConnell is probably aware that the GOP could stand to lose big in 2018 and 2020, and it's a huge gamble. The midterm opposition trend means the Democrats may not end up with any Senate losses, while the prospect of a Democratic President in 2020 runs the risk of a few red state Senate seats going Democrat (it must be remembered that a lot of the 2014 GOP Senate wins were in red states, and either went or were kept blue in the 2008 election of Obama). While many Presidents have won re-election, the odds of defeat are still high enough that it'd be risky to eliminate minority protections entirely.

59 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

"We're gonna repeal and replace it! Osht, it'll destabilize health markets and drop millions of people suddenly and simultaneously. Uhhh, uhhhh, I don't fucking know. You can choose to keep it if you want to."

GOP run by fucking clowns who don't even have the balls to fulfill one of the few promises they were consistent on.

I mean hey, the silver lining in all this is now that they actually have to govern, they're seeing it'd be incredibly stupid to repeal every piece of it. These moderates are going for an opt out option (basically resolving the key issue of the mandates being seen as infringing on personal choice, but of course, personal choice is secondary to state choice). Not exactly sure what the final result will be, given there's no way the bill can stay as is, yet a blanket repeal isn't viable either.

[Strickerx5]

On 1/21/2017 at 8:50 PM, Noelgilvie said:

Neo-Nazi Richard Spencer got punched twice by a protester. Again, my thoughts on violence are obvious, but I’m not crying any tears for him.

While I don't condone violence and think it's just about the worst way to solve a problem...

Spoiler

God, please allow me this one exception.

[Tani Coyote]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/23/us/politics/donald-trump-congress-democrats.html

The Crybaby-In-Chief met with Congressional leaders to briefly discuss policy goals as well as answer questions they may have, particularly regarding alternatives to the ACA.

In true Trump fashion, he brought up the unproven claim that he only lost the popular vote because of millions of undocumented people illegally voting, and repeated the shaky claim his inaugural crowd was one of the largest seen.

My God. Not a day can go by where he doesn't seek to stroke his ego and demean anyone who tries to criticize him.

[KHCast]

Basically how I'm seeing things regarding "not facts but facts"

Oh and this is pretty profound 

[Patticus]

7 hours ago, Noelgilvie said:

My God. Not a day can go by where he doesn't seek to stroke his ego and demean anyone who tries to criticize him.

Chronic Narcissistic Personality Disorder, now ensconced in the White House. I wonder what he's going to be like in a year or two, when his policies begin to have measurable impacts - not all good? Are they going to send Kellyanne back on TV to lie a little, make folks mad and push the real news out of the news cycle, as her Alternative Facts drove the Womens' March protests off?

[AxelPrime]

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-01-24/trump-said-to-plan-orders-approving-keystone-dakota-pipelines

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/innovations/wp/2017/01/24/donald-trump-tells-detroit-auto-ceos-environmental-regulations-are-out-of-control/?utm_term=.9258af7f5a89

https://www.buzzfeed.com/dinograndoni/trump-usda?utm_term=.ls95waJxe#.txxdQ7bmO

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/environmental-protection-grants-staff_us_5886825be4b0e3a7356b575f?pon75akll8ei5dn29

 

Goddammit, within 4 years (or less) he is going to fuck up the enviroment beyond repair at this point.

Edited January 24, 2017 by AxelPrime

[Nepenthe]

On top of that, he keeps ordering department freezes and media blackouts to prevent more widespread public knowledge of these events.

"1984 was not supposed to be an instruction manual."

[Toa Axis]

Come on guys, it's not like we need a clean environment anyways! It's not like we need the corrupt media anyways!

Spoiler

This is gonna be a long four years.

 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Also...

US risks war with China over Islands in SCS.

Kinda mixed about this myself. On one hand, China is doing things many counties there aren't approving of to kindly and I don't think we should let them get away with this--so this is something I would approve of.

On the other hand, it's risking war with China, which is in itself a double edged sword. If this was North Korea, I probably would've said "Fuck yeah! Go for it!" (yes, I know the risk of that, but seriously fuck North Korea). But China? Even in this day and age with out technology and capabilities still far ahead of China, risking war is still a dumb idea that someone needs to get their head checked on. However, this administration bungling things up and starting such a conflict could make people see reason (or not). It says a lot that Obama was trying to be diplomatic and avoid tensions without backing down, so this would be interesting.

An interesting thing to look at. What do you all think?

[Nepenthe]

I don't like war. I don't like throwing human beings in harm's way only for some of them to come home to a culture that doesn't give them the healthcare and financial support they need. I don't like the collateral damage our technology and drones do to other countries' human beings. I don't like the negative precedents it sets for countries' diplomatic relations going forward. It should always be a last resort, of which some unpopulated islands that we don't even come close to actually owning qualify as for me. This should primarily be an issue of the Asian countries and territories in dispute of them.

[Johnny Boy]

So in only a few days as President, Trump has:

1. Screwed over the tribe at Standing Rock.

2. Doubled down on Alternative Facts in addition to spewing the "illegal votes" bullshit again.

3. Banned National parks from any social media presence all over a bruised ego.

4. And now he's risking war with China.

Jesus, 2020 can't come soon enough.