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a bit of satirical humor in light of what went down with Trump. And wow, a lot of progressives don’t seem to be seeing this as satire going by the comments and are actually attacking the guy. And they wonder why some people tell them to take a joke and not get so angry...and this is coming from someone on the left lol. I think, especially in the current political climate, stuff like this is needed to de stress some 

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3 minutes ago, KHCast said:
And wow, a lot of progressives don’t seem to be seeing this as satire going by the comments and are actually attacking the guy. And they wonder why some people tell them to take a joke and not get so angry...and this is coming from someone on the left lol. I think, especially in the current political climate, stuff like this is needed to de stress some 

Can you really blame them for believing it? Trump is making satire sites like The Onion redundant because shit he pulls is even more stupid and outlandish and weird

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1 hour ago, Patticus said:

Every criminal worth his or her salt will case their target before they hit it. The Russians breached US systems in 2016, but to my knowledge didn't do much but look around, because they were familiarizing themselves with the target.

2018 and, more importantly, 2020, are when we are more likely to see them strike. I don't mean vote tallies being directly altered, either - a zero day attack might well involve a lot of people being purged from the electoral rolls altogether. If we wake up on election day '18 or '20, and through the day start seeing reports of huge numbers of voters showing up at the polling stations and not appearing on the rolls, you know exactly who to blame.

What do you think would happen next if this occurs?

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2 minutes ago, Patticus said:

Can you really blame them for believing it? Trump is making satire sites like The Onion redundant because shit he pulls is even more stupid and outlandish and weird

I guess when you put it that way, but still I feel like there are some obvious “this is satire” cues that are hard to miss unless you just ignore the video to go straight for the comments or judge off the first 10 seconds 

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19 minutes ago, Jiren (Metro) said:

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What do you think would happen next if this occurs?

Initially? Mass confusion, giving way to anger, perhaps impromptu protests nationwide.

The Republican Party & President Trump will vehemently deny any wrongdoing, insisting that those being turned away are illegal voters, or people who were legitimately purged from the rolls and were negligent in checking their status. They will insist on the polls closing at allotted times, leaving millions stripped of their voice. The election will be a red "wave," or at least red enough to curtail Democratic momentum, and there will be mass protests as the truth dawns on the nation. There will be no investigation, for the GOP will not tolerate the narrative of any impropriety, the Mueller investigation will be wound down, and we will await 2020 with a mixture of grim resignation and impotent fury.

 

It all depends on what outcome Russia wants, and whether they'll care if they're found out. They could easily devastate Americans' confidence in the democratic process and cause untold civil strife within the country, with all kinds of consequences down the road, they could bring about a "red wave" and solidify the GOP's total power for a solid generation, or they could go the other way and manipulate events just enough to keep Trump and the GOP in a position to keep helping their cause (targeting very specific districts and races), without looking like they're doing anything at all.

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https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/politics-and-government/clark-county/north-las-vegas-las-vegas-approve-shared-voting-centers/

Nevada's odds of turning blue are looking good. For municipal elections in several larger cities, it is now possible to cast your vote at any voting center, not just the one on your voter registration card.

It is worth noting this is just for municipal races. However, the primaries earlier this year experimented with a similar system, meaning general election rollout is probably not far away. If this system becomes the norm for Nevada, it could quite possibly be normalized in other states, increasing turnout, and quite likely helping Democrats win more races.

And thus the GOP dragon yells "Fraud, frauuuud!" as it melts, because the GOP has trouble winning fair races.

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So anyone think the midterms will have massive Russian interference like a lot of people seem to fear? 

I'm not quite as anxious. Trump benefitted from the ads and bots because Clinton was a very polarizing figure and he seemed to present a way to shake up politics.

Now that it's apparent he's a manchild who does not really shake up much of anything (in a positive way), I think a lot of his lukewarm voters see him for what he is and will be happy to put their power behind the Democrats to check him.

It is key to remember the data points to 2016's result being an anti-Clinton rather than pro-Trump vote.

Now, there is the issue of outright vote rigging and hacking, but that would be an incredibly bold move. Let's give the GOP some credit: while they're not eager to depose Trump, they do know he's a liability (hence bipartisan Russia sanctions bills) and might very well be willing to declare war over his veto. Now while Trump can simply refuse to enforce a war declaration, that is solid grounds for impeachment and removal there, as he is actively undermining national security at that point, far more than he is already.

Russia took advantage of a very strange election cycle. This cycle is more vanilla, even if Trump hangs over it.

3 hours ago, Mad Convoy said:

2018 and 2020 will most likely be quite the ride, I give you that, but most probably not dramatic enough to be scary.

My main anxiety is the probability he will not accept election results, and there's a sizable minority of Americans who will continue to argue for his legitimacy in spite of it all.

The key difference between them and Al Gore enthusiasts is these people tend to have guns and a tendency to see various groups of Americans as threats to their way of life.

26 minutes ago, Jiren (Metro) said:

Speaking of which.

Standard procedure. Each party routinely tries to derail bills with amendments that make the other side look nasty.

Imagine if I was making a bill about universal healthcare and some guy introduces an amendment to cover all pet care. When I vote against that because it's a bit of a reach for what we started out to do, I will now be demonized as hating animals and will be getting hate mail from PETA and shit.

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6 minutes ago, Bergamo (Ogilvie) said:

Now, there is the issue of outright vote rigging and hacking, but that would be an incredibly bold move. Let's give the GOP some credit: while they're not eager to depose Trump, they do know he's a liability (hence bipartisan Russia sanctions bills) and might very well be willing to declare war over his veto. Now while Trump can simply refuse to enforce a war declaration, that is solid grounds for impeachment and removal there, as he is actively undermining national security at that point, far more than he is already.

Russia took advantage of a very strange election cycle. This cycle is more vanilla, even if Trump hangs over it.

I don't quite understand, why would they turn against Trump when the hacking benefits them?

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Hacking, or attempted hacking, has already begun.

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Microsoft reveals first known midterm campaign hacking attempts
By ERIC GELLER 07/19/2018 01:33 PM EDT

Microsoft detected and helped block hacking attempts against three congressional candidates this year, a company executive said Thursday, marking the first known example of cyber interference in the midterm elections.

“Earlier this year, we did discover that a fake Microsoft domain had been established as the landing page for phishing attacks,” said Tom Burt, Microsoft’s vice president for security and trust, at the Aspen Security Forum. “And we saw metadata that suggested those phishing attacks were being directed at three candidates who are all standing for election in the midterm elections.”

Burt declined to name the targets but said they were “people who, because of their positions, might have been interesting targets from an espionage standpoint as well as an election disruption standpoint.”

Microsoft took down the fake domain and worked with the federal government to block the phishing messages. Burt said that none of the targeted campaign staffers were infected.

Burt did not specify whether the hacking attempts originated from Russia.

Threat intelligence researchers at Microsoft and elsewhere are “not seeing the same level of activity by the Russian activity groups leading into the midterm elections that we could see when we look back at the 2016 elections,” Burt said.

For example, he said, Russian hackers are not targeting think tanks and academic experts like they did during the 2016 campaign

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/19/midterm-campaign-hacking-microsoft-733256

We don't know who's behind these attempted hacks, but they're sure to be the first of many. To my mind, the relative quietness of Russia's groups as compared to 2016 means little, if they now know exactly which systems to breach, how to do so, and what to do upon gaining entry.

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Might as well assume it was Russia. Only other suspect would be China, and they’re far more interested in stealing military and technological secrets than hacking elections (not that we shouldn’t put the idea pass them either).

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China would like to be rid of Trump, given that anyone from the rest of the GOP would end this stupid trade war pretty quickly. They likely wouldn't mind a Democrat winning in 2020 either, for the same reasons, but I can't say how much this desire to shut down the trade war will influence whether or not they actively interfere in that most important part of American society.

Speaking of interference...

Similar to the scenario I outlined earlier, it would be absolute chaos. Not only would Americans' confidence in their own democracy be badly shaken, so too would the confidence of the rest of the free world be rocked, which benefits only tyrants like Putin.

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That basically highlights why the move towards abolishing set polling places is a good one.

The GOP can scream fraud all it wants, but there are so many reported cases of people going to the wrong polling stations and so little evidence of fraud (as confirmed by Secretaries of State from all 50 states and from both parties), that it's obvious what the next move should be.

There is no fraud. There is only a GOP running scared that its ideas are obsolete and cannot hope to compete in a free market of ideas.

How ironic.

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I don't quite understand, why would they turn against Trump when the hacking benefits them?

A variety of reasons.

For one, and I know we laugh at this, but I don't think every Republican wants to sell this country out. So they tried to put a bit of a muzzle on Trump so he can't actively undermine the US, while still reaping the benefits of his being in office. Let's be clear here, though: neither Party is a hive mind. Every politician has their own motives and aspirations, and they just happen to unite within a party. I have no doubt a lot of them are mindless opportunists, but I don't doubt a lot of them have genuine values as well. A lot of members of Congress were in the service at some point, and I don't think their love of country as much as conservative policies is a facade.

For two, even the conservative base can only take so much. As the uproar over rumored amnesty bills show, if there's one thing conservatives are good at, it's nationalist outrage. It's noticeable they don't excuse capitulation to Russia, but deny it happens entirely. But that seems to slowly be chipping away. Trump is becoming harder and harder to stay behind, even as people remain loyal to the GOP as a whole.

And when it chips away, Republican politicians who don't hold Trump accountable just may pay the piper.

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More disheartening news

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Nine states with a history of racial discrimination are more aggressively removing registered voters from their rolls than other states, according to a report released Friday.

After reviewing voter purges nationally from 2012 to 2016, the nonpartisan Brennan Center for Justice found that the mostly Southern jurisdictions that had once been required to get changes to voting policies pre-approved by the Justice Department had higher rates of purging than jurisdictions that were not previously subject to pre-clearance.

A key section of the 1965 Voting Rights Act, which was designed to protect minority voters from state disenfranchisement, was struck down by the Supreme Court in 2013, allowing states to begin making changes affecting voting without first getting federal approval.

"Two million fewer voters would have been purged over those four years if jurisdictions previously subject to federal pre-clearance had purged at the same rate" as other jurisdictions, the Brennan Center estimated.

In Georgia, for example, 156 of the state's 159 counties reported an increase in removal rates after the Voting Rights Act was changed. In 2016, advocates sued Georgia for making voter registration harder. In 2017, the American Civil Liberties Union sued a Georgia county and the state Secretary of State for its purge practices, too.

"There's cause for concern when the purge rate goes up this much at the same time we're seeing controversial, sometimes illegal voter purge practice, in addition to changes to other voting laws that make it more difficult to participate," said Jonathan Brater, counsel for the Brennan Center's Democracy Program and one of the report's authors.

The Brennan Center's analysis found that election officials were purging voter rolls more aggressively nationwide, too, with some using imprecise or possibly illegal methods to do so.

Voter purges — cleaning up and pruning voter rolls down to remove inaccurate information — are a normal part of all election roll maintenance. But if purges are done too aggressively or with bad information, advocates warn, they can disenfranchise eligible voters, who may not know they've been purged until they go to the polls on Election Day and are unable to vote.

Brater said that under the Trump administration, "the Department of Justice has abdicated its responsibility to protect against bad voter purges."

"They've actually been encouraging jurisdictions to purge more aggressively," he said.

In 5-4 ruling, the Supreme Court recently approved Ohio's method for purging voters from the rolls. The Obama Justice Department had supported the challengers in the early stages of the court fight, but the Trump administration switched sides and supported the state.

God, we're being attacked by Russians on the outside all the while Republicans within the country are trying to suppress votes.

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https://www.npr.org/2018/07/20/630659379/is-trump-the-toughest-ever-on-russia

So this is interesting. In short, while Trump's words are nothing but praise for Putin, Trump's administration has actually taken a lot of powerful measures against Russia regarding sanctions and funding organizations like the European Deterrence Initiative.

Now, there are a few explanations for something like this, but there's one that I think is the most probable. This is yet another case where Trump doesn't really read into anything beyond the title before he signs off of them, so he doesn't know just how hardline his administration has acted towards Russia and his pal Putin. This would be consistent with his apparent leadership activities and approach to signing bills thus far. Now, there's a good chance Putin has several objections to these hardline measures, and would bring them up to Trump to tell him to stop approving them. But there's likewise a good chance that Trump would deny that there's anything wrong with his approach towards signing bills, because in his mind he quite literally can't be wrong. Knowing him, he may even claim that these bills are meant to help Russia if confronted with them! 

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5 hours ago, Jiren (Metro) said:

More disheartening news

Disheartening, but silver linings here.

One of the states quoted is Virginia. The state that last year absolutely throttled the GOP.

Then there's Maine and New York, which have blue leans anyway.

It is concerning, absolutely, but the fight is far from over.

Voter roll purges are only effective when voters are apathetic about the election cycle. In the current cycle, people are really fired up, there are election workers everywhere trying to get people to register, and I have no doubt a lot of people are going to check registration closer to the deadlines.

In addition, states like Nevada are going to vote on automatic voter registration ballot initiatives in November, so it'll be interesting to see where that goes.

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Why do people always keep voting for the same corrupt people during primaries? Like are people oblivious to the fact they have better choices? Take for instance the governor race in New York where people are still going to vote for a pro corporate democrat (Andrew Cuomo) over the progressive (Cynthia Nixon). This can apply to the other side as well too. Aren't people tired of government being controlled by the wealthy and want government that represent regular people? That should be something that a super majority on all views would want.

I would like to add for the voting thing. Perhaps they should try mail in ballots. I get those and they work great!

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On 7/18/2018 at 1:05 AM, Mad Convoy said:

Partially correct. For sure, China would be upset for those reasons-- the US, after all, was responsible for convincing China to stop pretending to like Russia, freeing its government from several Russian obligations and ties. It would seem very hypocritical and jarring for the US to suddenly chain itself to Russia in any way.

Another issue is that it goes against the spirit of the trade deals. Beyond the vast economic benefits, there was a mutual "man, fuck Russia" element. That was indeed the main common ground between the US and China at the time, and the one Nixon seized to help make the Chinese open to reason from him. Well, that and coupled with pointing out that the US has been open for decades about how little it likes Russia-- the Maoist precedent of respecting people with hardline and forceful stances no matter how annoying, frustrating, or different they may be was still alive and well back then, and besides, Chinese leadership did not want to appear softer on Soviet Communism than a country that's basically the poster child for capitalism. There was an undeniable element of sabotage towards the government that both parties saw as the greater evil. By making China more reliable and available for trade, they effectively made it better able to push back against Russia in a public manner which it took advantage of. It also destroyed the popular narrative of the time that capitalists and communists cannot compromise, work out deals, or gain anything of value from each other, which made Russia look bad for putting on the facade of never compromising with the enemy (Side note: This wasn't true, of course. It wasn't just the USSR that was ashamed of compromise either-- the US also tried to bury many of its compromises and deals with the USSR to look tough on Communism. But the US at least recognized the ones relating to WWII back when the two countries were allies and the ones that were highly urgent, even if it purposefully glossed over important details and concessions in doing so.).

Trump may not have directly announced a complete breaking off from the US's longstanding deals with China. But he may as well have told the world just how little he appreciates them or values preserving them when he vouches so lovingly for Russia. After all, Russia was the country that said deals were, in part, made to damage economically and influentially in a landmark show of compromise, newfound understanding, and shared disdain between two very different countries. Trying to repair relations with Russia without understanding and acknowledging the US's history, particularly where dealings with China are concerned, is a political nightmare which offers no improvement for anybody involved.

 

On 7/19/2018 at 7:14 AM, Bergamo (Ogilvie) said:

You don't even need to go over the historical split between China and Russia to understand it (although it certainly helps lay a foundation), I think.

Take a look at a world map: Russia covers a ton of China's border, and the only reason it does not cover more is because Mongolia's borders were designed with keeping the two countries separated.

Put simply, if Russia became too close to the West, it would make China feel extremely threatened. As it stands, while we've pursued a degree of friendship with China, there is still a ton of rivalry and enmity over Korea, the South China Sea, and global business rivalries. That our countries represent two completely different approaches to worldview - free market capitalism and democracy versus state capitalism and authoritarian one party rule - adds to the tension. China is too integrated into the world economy to have the same level of Cold War that we had with the Soviets, but the tension is still there. For a comparison, see how Iran does not like the fact the US is allied with countries that make up most of Iran's border, and you can get an idea why encirclement causes a lot of issues.

But yes, so long as there is that Sino-American tension, Russia has a delicate balancing act where it must not get too close to either power. Nor should either the West or China be pushing too hard to monopolize Russia's friendship. While Russia no longer has the same level of power the Soviet Union had, its sheer size and location means it remains important in geopolitics, its natural resources aside.

Another way to put it is this: if the US really wanted friendship with Russia, it would need to simultaneously befriend China. I do not see either one occurring any time soon, because both of the countries are in the grips of tyrants. China looked to be making serious progress, but "Papa Xi" has monopolized power and it will probably take decades for China to liberalize again.

Okay, thanks for explanations to you both, I think this makes sense to me now. At the very least I get it way better than before.

I suppose this shows sometimes politics should be left to people who actually know of politics and not people that just speak "funny". Of course it's easier said than done, but I think those guys who actually sound like they get the stuff and still manage to rally really "strong" opinions are kinda scary. Like, they sound like they can reason why they think something could work and then they start to gather really strongly thinking people around them.

But well, that's one of the reasons why I like the multi-party system we have in here, that kind of voices have their own parties. Yet even with many parties I still always struggle to find somebody to vote for...

 

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I’m having a hard time seeing their attempt to split base being effective.

By now every dem voter regardless whether they backed Clinton or Sanders now understands how damaging the policies by Trump and the GOP the have been to the country. 

 

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12 hours ago, KHCast said:

https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/07/17/opinions/russian-bots-2018-midterm-elections-opinion-love/index.html?r=http%3A%2F%2Fm.facebook.com

Russians are already apparently attempting to split democrat voters and attempt to influence the midterms. Problem is, the hashtag being used was almost immediately traced back to bots. 

That's excellent work. If we can keep up this level of vigilance, we won't be as easily divided as we were in 2016.

Not sure if want, he might have too much baggage from the Obama era to stand a chance of winning, but I guess I'd like to hear him speak, hear his platform, before I choose to write him off or support him.

Meanwhile, uh, we're fucked...

 

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12 hours ago, Jiren (Metro) said:

I’m having a hard time seeing their attempt to split base being effective.

By now every dem voter regardless whether they backed Clinton or Sanders now understands how damaging the policies by Trump and the GOP the have been to the country.

Of course, whether that means they will actually vote is another matter entirely.

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3 hours ago, Patticus said:

That's excellent work. If we can keep up this level of vigilance, we won't be as easily divided as we were in 2016.

Not sure if want, he might have too much baggage from the Obama era to stand a chance of winning, but I guess I'd like to hear him speak, hear his platform, before I choose to write him off or support him.

Meanwhile, uh, we're fucked...

 

Well fuck. Seems like, yes, prior attempts at breaches were just tests to get an idea of our security. I’m sure Putin is gonna claim no responsibility here. But the fact these attacks are becoming more frequent and obvious has me concerned about the coming months, and wondering how else Russians intend to interfere with us. 

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1 hour ago, KHCast said:

Well fuck. Seems like, yes, prior attempts at breaches were just tests to get an idea of our security. I’m sure Putin is gonna claim no responsibility here. But the fact these attacks are becoming more frequent and obvious has me concerned about the coming months, and wondering how else Russians intend to interfere with us. 

Assassination attempts on high level democrats and major democratic players to demoralize us? I doubt the Trumpers would give a shit, or would probably gleefully allow it.

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17 hours ago, SenEDDtor Missile said:

Assassination attempts on high level democrats and major democratic players to demoralize us? I doubt the Trumpers would give a shit, or would probably gleefully allow it.

Pretty sure that’s an act of war, and Russia wouldn’t push their luck that hard. 

Even if they got away with it under Trump, I doubt the next president would let that fly. Or even Congress.

 

 

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