The General 'Murican Politics Thread

[CleverSonicUsername]

7 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

So what is this I'm hearing about China helping us with North Korea given we're sending an fleet over there?

Now I've made it loud and clear I would support any president that dealt with the DPRK (on the sole condition that we don't strike first, which I don't think Trump is willing to do) , but that sounds like a bunch of optimistic nonsense.

For real tho, the Korea situation has me worried. If Trump has any sense he shouldn't go for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea, but from what I'm seeing he's a bit too eager to deal with them militarily than he should be?

Trump has been saying he'll deal with North korea with or without Chinese support, so idk what this is about China being cool with it. My impression has always been that neither China nor South Korea want to deal with the fallout of a North Korean engagement, not to mention the refugees.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Trump is pretty much going "YOU WILL ALL RESPEKT MAH AUTHORITAH!" at this point. Minus the funny parts from Cartman.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

2 hours ago, CleverSonicUsername said:

Trump has been saying he'll deal with North korea with or without Chinese support, so idk what this is about China being cool with it. My impression has always been that neither China nor South Korea want to deal with the fallout of a North Korean engagement, not to mention the refugees.

I wouldn't blame any president saying "screw it" regarding China's support against North Korea, but it's walking on a minefield regardless of how anyone wants to cut it.

The way Trump is handling it is...well, that's obvious as it is.

[CleverSonicUsername]

15 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

I wouldn't blame any president saying "screw it" regarding China's support against North Korea, but it's walking on a minefield regardless of how anyone wants to cut it.

The way Trump is handling it is...well, that's obvious as it is.

There's no easy solution to North Korea, and while I'm also for something being done about it, hell if I know what the best course of action is. Then again, I have such a lack of confidence in Trump that I couldn't see him knowing any better than some layman on the internet.

[Tani Coyote]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/officials-no-trumps-approval-massive-bomb-152907219--politics.html

Trump did not order the MOAB strike, nor was his order needed to. General Nicholson has had authority to deploy it whenever he saw fit for quite some time.

The death toll, meanwhile, has climbed to 94 militants and no civilians. Combining this with the destruction of the tunnel network (and how old the bombs are), this is looking like it was a cost-effective decision. Nicholson also wanted to use the bomb so that he could demonstrate his seriousness with destroying IS in Afghanistan.

Takeaway from this: Trump cannot be blamed for any of this, nor receive any credit for it. He is a true President: he will receive credit/blame for things he had zero involvement in. Likewise, he will happily try and take credit for things that had nothing to do with him.

On the other hand. I presume the fact such a widely-disliked man is in office would give an officer courage to use a controversial weapon. Trump was catching all the flak for this, being painted as a warmonger who was eager to try out toys, etc. but he wasn't involved at all. We'll see in coming months if this becomes a common practice.

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/11/kansas-special-election-result.html

As you've likely heard, the Kansas seat stayed Republican, but only by 7 points. Pompeo won it by 31 points in 2016. The GOP is currently dismissing this as the result of low turnout, but they are missing the flipside: higher Democratic turnout eating away at margins even in deep red districts. What will happen in swing districts?

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/team-obama-gets-involved-in-georgia-special-election/article/2620375

Julian Castro is getting involved in the Georgia 6th special election on the 18th. John Ossoff is expected to make the runoff, but is likely to lose the general election once the GOP base falls in line behind a single candidate.

Honestly, the Democrats running against Ossoff should be ashamed of themselves. They're eating away at votes that could otherwise allow Ossoff to win a majority outright.

[Patticus]

Ossoff right now is expected to hit perhaps up to 46% of the vote in the first round of voting, a great result, to be sure, but not one that'll win it for him outright. If the polling is off, he might be able to win it outright at the start - not an impossible or implausible scenario. And if it does go to a second round runoff in late June, with Ossoff winning the plurality but the GOP taking the aggregate in round one, it's not a stretch to say that he could well win there too. Sure, the Republicans will be able to regroup and focus all their efforts on promoting one candidate, but that doesn't necessarily make it a foregone conclusion that they'll win round two. Ossoff could pull this off.

 

Also, this:

Don't worry though, since he's white, nobody will think that it's a sign that he secretly hates America.

[KHCast]

I hate how right you'll most likely be on that. We'll get mad at black Olympic little girls, but not the president. Jesus this country is really hypocritical.

[Patticus]

I was referring more to how any time Obama wasn't seen to be raising his hand or whatever (even when he did right after the photo was taken, or when he wasn't required to etc), the GOP would spew its bile all over the internet about how "Evil Muslim Obama secretly HATES America" or some shit. But yeah, that too I guess.

Meanwhile, the polls are now closed in the Georgia 6th special election. I can only hope for something good to come out of all this, something to put the GOP on notice and maybe impact their recruiting efforts for the midterms.

Oh yeah and gerrymandering might be about to get the boot:

Edit:

Quote

As of 10:15 p.m. ET, Ossoff had 50.4% of the vote, with 72% of the vote in, according to Edison Research.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/18/politics/georgia-house-6th-special-election-jon-ossoff/index.html?adkey=bn

Only Fulton County is left to report in at this point. Ossoff is expected to hit maybe 48% of the final vote tally there - not quite enough to keep his head above 50% and prevent that runoff. So much spin gonna happen real soon.

Don'tchu fuck this up now, Georgia!

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Watch Georgia fuck this up...

...don't mind me, I just wanted to be funny.

EDIT: Bruh, why you take that out in your edit? Now I look stupid saying this. 

[Patticus]

On the plus side for the Democrats, this will be the second special election in a row in a red district that has swung 20 points away from the GOP in the months since the last election. As Nate Silver and others have said, if this is indicative of how the nation at large feels about Trump (rather than local political feelings/dynamics), it could put over a hundred House seats in play next year. But that won't be testable for a long while yet, and special elections can often be wild cards with outlier results, so we'll have to wait and see how things pan out - but it will be harder for the GOP to win when running on a governing agenda without having done the one thing they won three times before on - repealing the ACA.

Anyway, Georgia 6th's runoff won't be until June 20th, meaning that it could yet go Ossoff's way. Or not. It will more than likely turn into the political event of the early summer, though - more than a mere rubber stamping exercise for Karen Handel, the GOP candidate whom Ossoff will face off against.

Edit:

Quote

As of 10:40 p.m. ET, Ossoff had 50.3% of the vote, with 77% of the vote in, according to Edison Research.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/18/politics/georgia-house-6th-special-election-jon-ossoff/index.html?adkey=bn

It's going to be a long night.

Quote

Cobb is done. Ossoff at 50.3% with 55k in Fulton County left. Our guess he gets 45%; needs 49. Seems small, but very hard.

http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/georgia-house-special-election-district-6?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Bring on June 20th, then. No way the Democrats are going to let this one go without an almighty fight.

[Tani Coyote]

Midterm 2014 turnout in the 6th was 210,000. This special election's turnout was 200,000.

Republicans have been smugly dismissing Ossoff's lead as a fluke on the basis the general election's higher turnout would be his ruin. And yet, here we are - the special election has almost as much turnout as a midterm election, which gets national attention.

It's a swing of 5%, but that could go either way. As it stands, with repeat turnout and assuming Party loyalty, Ossoff would get 49.3 to Handel's 50.6.

So a lot of the June election's result will be based on turnout and defections.

Democrats have every right to claim a moral victory. Barring a turnout fluke that let them swamp the polls (unlikely given how close Clinton was here), it's possible they could still take the seat. Ossoff even outperformed Clinton in all 3 districts. I just hope Ossoff didn't spend all $8 million on this.

[KHCast]

Just a bit of politics humor/flinging shit at Trump lol. Patt isn't the only one that should have some fun haha

[Patticus]

Ossoff got 48%, just shy of the 50% he needed. I don't think that Ossoff will want for funding, moving forward - all eyes will be on the runoff, and the Democrats are going to be both energized and motivated, just like this time.

Depending on what Trump says or does, we cannot for certain say the same for Handel's supporters - though she'll clearly benefit from her party coalescing around her. Well, most of it. There were some pretty harsh attacks on her by her GOP rivals that may not make for easy reconciliations with their segments of the base, I hear.

In addition, Ossoff's vote was whittled away just a little by his Democratic rivals. Without them to eat into his vote, he may yet have enough support, provided turnout is as high in June as it was yesterday, to beat Handel without having to try as hard to eat into Handel's vote.

[Tani Coyote]

17 hours ago, Patticus said:

Ossoff got 48%, just shy of the 50% he needed. I don't think that Ossoff will want for funding, moving forward - all eyes will be on the runoff, and the Democrats are going to be both energized and motivated, just like this time.

Depending on what Trump says or does, we cannot for certain say the same for Handel's supporters - though she'll clearly benefit from her party coalescing around her. Well, most of it. There were some pretty harsh attacks on her by her GOP rivals that may not make for easy reconciliations with their segments of the base, I hear.

In addition, Ossoff's vote was whittled away just a little by his Democratic rivals. Without them to eat into his vote, he may yet have enough support, provided turnout is as high in June as it was yesterday, to beat Handel without having to try as hard to eat into Handel's vote.

I'm hoping for the caustic campaign in the primaries to have the Bernie Bro effect on Handel. Third party support seems higher among right-leaning voters, so I'm hopeful that will depress turnout for Handel when she's the only GOP choice.

Having already been an impressive first choice, I'm hopeful Ossoff can raise enough to keep things going in June and not worry too much about his backers not turning out.

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-georgia-special-election-6th-district-ossoff-2017-4?r=UK&IR=T

"Dems failed in Kansas and are now failing in Georgia,"

Trump tweeted Wednesday morning.

God, I simply can't wait for the Democrats to finally win a race. I want to see Trump's arrogant sore winner smile be wiped off his face.

[Volphied]

On 04/20/2017 at 0:11 AM, Gregg (Ogilvie) said:

I want to see Trump's arrogant sore winner smile be wiped off his face.

You might get your wish sooner than you imagined. Trump is becoming increasingly frustrated.

 

 

Edited April 24, 2017 by Tornado

[PSI Wind]

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/donald-trump-epa-website-turn-off-environmental-protection-agency-government-administration-a7698736.html

Jesus fucking CHRIST this is literally Book Burning. Fuck this abhorrent man, fuck his unemphatic administration, and FUCK EVERY FUCKING TRUMP VOTER I'm DONE

[Dark Qiviut]

@PSI Wind

Backlash was swift, and it looks like it won't be turned off: http://mashable.com/2017/04/24/epa-open-data-website-shutdown/#NurTbAschaq3

[Patticus]

People have been working for months to save any and all data that might be at risk of deletion under Trump - including Obama administration tech people during their last months.

We have to come to terms with the fact that data under Trump, especially when it relates to climate change and the environment, is at risk of deletion or alteration.

Already, the EPA is now no longer able to use data in its research if that data isn't freely available on the online databases of scientific journals (including raw data), meaning that the amount of data it'll be able to use in its studies will be cut by around 95%, given the very limited numbers of studies and data so far uploaded, and the vast expense of uploading older studies and data.

[Dark Qiviut]

@Patticus

Your point there continues to highlight why his administration's so dangerous. Trump himself is a pathological liar and mentally incompetent to run anything, much less the Office. His whole administration is run by puppets who do nothing except desire to whisper in his royal ear. It's not simply they don't understand how to improve a country. They literally don't care.

[Volphied]

Right, so I don't want to sound the alarm, but Trump is getting really desperate to start a war

https://www.yahoo.com/news/entire-u-senate-white-house-north-korea-briefing-150459069.html

Quote

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Top Trump administration officials will hold a rare briefing on Wednesday at the White House for the entire U.S. Senate on the situation in North Korea, senior Senate aides said on Monday.

All 100 senators have been asked to the White House for the briefing by Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis, Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats and General Joseph Dunford, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the aides said.

While top administration officials routinely travel to Capitol Hill to address members of Congress on foreign policy and national security matters, it is unusual for the entire 100-member Senate to go to such an event at the White House, and for those four top officials to be involved.

U.S. officials have expressed mounting concern over North Korea's nuclear and missile tests, and its threats to attack the United States and its Asian allies.

This is insanity.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

7 minutes ago, Volphied said:

Right, so I don't want to sound the alarm, but Trump is getting really desperate to start a war

https://www.yahoo.com/news/entire-u-senate-white-house-north-korea-briefing-150459069.html

This is insanity.

Guy probably thinks he can use a victory over North Korea as a means to distract from the failings of his wannabe dictatorship or something.

[Volphied]

21 minutes ago, SenEDtor Missile said:

Guy probably thinks he can use a victory over North Korea as a means to distract from the failings of his wannabe dictatorship or something.

It seems like this is yet more theatrics.. But this is also a colossal waste of legislative time. Congress must pass a budget by Friday or the government shuts down and they're nowhere close to an agreement (not helped by the fact that Trump continues to insist on funding for his idiotic wall).

[Rusty Spy]

1 hour ago, Volphied said:

Right, so I don't want to sound the alarm, but Trump is getting really desperate to start a war

https://www.yahoo.com/news/entire-u-senate-white-house-north-korea-briefing-150459069.html

This is insanity.

It's no surprise. The corporate media complete did a complete 180 when he starting dropping bombs. They have demonstrated to Trump that the quickest way to raise his approval rating is to start bombing other countries, and the only thing Trump really cares about based on his actions is making money and being praised; starting a war kills two birds with one stone.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

You know, I've said many of times that I actually would not mind a war with the DPRK so long as we're not the ones striking first. But given how excessive Trump was when he dropped MOAB, it's safe to say that this probably won't be the case with North Korea.

What's even sad is that him striking first and knocking them out might actually do some potential good and make Trump seem like an effective leader. North Korea's only negotiating tool is the fact that they have nukes and are willing to use them (if they can even launch them), but coupled with THAAD being deployed in South Korea to counter that and how laughably weak North Korea is without their nukes (not sure how their massive pool of soldiers would affect the war given we have ways of countering human wave tactics), a conflict between the US and the DPRK is nothing short of one-sided.

Of course, that's obviously not considering North Korea's ally, China, and we all know that fighting them isn't a good idea (even if we can win) hence why we shouldn't strike first to begin with.

[Volphied]

6 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

What's even sad is that him striking first and knocking them out might actually do some potential good and make Trump seem like an effective leader. North Korea's only negotiating tool is the fact that they have nukes and are willing to use them (if they can even launch them), but coupled with THAAD being deployed in South Korea to counter that and how laughably weak North Korea is without their nukes (not sure how their massive pool of soldiers would affect the war given we have ways of countering human wave tactics), a conflict between the US and the DPRK is nothing short of one-sided.

Of course, that's obviously not considering North Korea's ally, China, and we all know that fighting them isn't a good idea (even if we can win) hence why we shouldn't strike first to begin with.

I think you're severely underestimating North Korea's military capabilities. Now, don't get me wrong, no one expects North Korea to be able to win a war against the US. On the other hand, that's precisely what makes them a dangerous foe, and why there's zero chance for such a war doing ANY potential good or even somehow making Trump seem "presidential" :

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-no-one-in-korea-wants-war-2013-4

Quote

Even without nuclear weapons, North Korea has an ace in the hole. Most experts believe its claims to have enough conventional firepower from its artillery units to devastate the greater Seoul area, South Korea's bustling capital of 24 million. Such an attack would cause severe casualties — often estimated in the hundreds of thousands — in a very short period of time.

Many of these artillery batteries are already in place, dug in and very effectively camouflaged, which means that U.S. and South Korean forces cannot count on being able to take them out before they strike. Experts believe about 60 percent of North Korea's military assets are positioned relatively close to the Demilitarized Zone separating the countries.

North Korea's most threatening weapons are its 170 mm Koksan artillery guns, which are 14 meters long and can shoot conventional mortar ammunition 40 kilometers (25 miles). That's not quite enough to reach Seoul, which is 50 kilometers (30 miles) from the DMZ. But if they use rocket-assisted projectiles, the range increases to about 60 kilometers (37 miles). Chemical weapons fired from these guns could cause even greater mayhem.

North Korea experts Victor Cha and David Kang posted on the website of Foreign Policy magazine late last month that the North can fire 500,000 rounds of artillery on Seoul in the first hour of a conflict.

And what happens after we defeat North Korea?

Quote

But China still has valid reasons not to want the regime to suddenly collapse.

War in Korea would likely spark a massive exodus of North Korean civilians along its porous 1,300-kilometer (800-mile) border, which in turn could lead to a humanitarian crisis or unrest that the Chinese government would have to deal with. The fall of North Korea could pave the way for the United States to establish military bases closer to Chinese territory, or the creation of a unified Korea over which Beijing might have less influence.

China, the world's second-largest economy, also has significant trade with South Korea and the United States. Turmoil on the Korean Peninsula would harm the economies of all three countries.

Who's problem will be the millions of refugees? Who's problem will be a devastated country with no economy? 27 years later, the eastern parts of Germany still lag behind the rest. And East Germany was one of the most developed soviet countries. The differences between North and South Korea are staggering. There is no way that the South will be able handle it, especially not with Seoul being a smouldering ruin, and the economy of the entire East Asian region in chaos due to the sudden war.