The General 'Murican Politics Thread

[CleverSonicUsername]

2 hours ago, Indigo Rush said:

Please stop! I can't handle all this winning!

I'm actually sick of winning!

[Tani Coyote]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-court-gayconversion-idUSKBN17X1SJ

Religious conservatives seeking to overturn bans on conversion therapy were disappointed today; the Supreme Court refused to grant a hearing on the case. The result is that all 5 state bans on conversion therapy remain in effect, and more states can pass them if they wish.

For reference, for the Court to hear a case, 4 Justices need to agree to it. Given the conservative majority, this is cause for celebration: the Court seems to largely be considering gay rights settled, or at least will allow the status quo to continue without interference. The next test of whether the Court is going to lean conservative or libertarian will come when Trump gets his next pick.

I'm just hopeful it's one of the conservative judges and not the liberal ones that he replaces next, at least until the Democrats have a chance to retake the Senate in 2018 and force moderate judges onto the bench.

On 4/30/2017 at 1:03 AM, Patticus said:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/29/trump-blames-constitution-for-first-100-days-chaos-presidency

I've always tended towards advocating for parliamentary systems over the American model of government. However, under those models, Trump would probably have a great deal more power than he does as President of the United States. The functions of Congress and the Senate that can ensure that a President in power does not necessarily have power (particularly if the President is of the other party), essentially the checks and balances, appear to be working as well as they ever have (in their own weird way), even though all three branches of government are held at present by the same party. It's just incredible.

Trump is a fantastic salesman for the American political system.

Wouldn't a Parliamentary government weaken the power of the head of government, given Parliament can toss them out with a humble 50%+1 no confidence vote? In the end, it's not Trump that's sinking the GOP; it's the fact that it's composed of several factions that were unified in their hatred for Obama the past 8 years but now have little idea what they actually want to do, nor what is actually practical without massive political fallout. Their attempts to repeal Obamacare are seeing its approval by Americans gradually tick upward in perhaps the most massive backfire since the Immigration Reform bill under Reagan increasing illegal immigration.

But anyway, the great irony in all this is the Constitution Trump hates is the only reason he's in power to begin with. If we had a direct popular election like any normal country, Clinton would be President and the GOP would be gleefully planning the Great Gerrymander of 2021. Instead they face a serious chance of losing key Governorships that in turn will undo their power over the House.

Then again, Trump is so deluded he feels there's no way he could have lost the popular vote fairly, so of course he doesn't realize that it's only because of Electoral College bullshit that he gets to call himself the President of the United States.

23 hours ago, Nepenthe said:

Hey guize we got a budget passed through the end of September, which includes no funding whatsoever for the border wall, increased funding for the National Institute of Health, and an indefinite payment extension for the ACA.

Look at all of this winning. Are you tired of winning yet?

Now we just need to follow it up with wins in Georgia and Montana's special elections and I'll be a happy camper. Means good things are likely to come with 2018.

[Nepenthe]

I have no faith in Jon Ossoff being elected because Georgia. However, the fact that he got as close as he did gives me a little bit of hope, which I'm trying to beat down to avoid any disappointment.

[Tani Coyote]

3 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

I have no faith in Jon Ossoff being elected because Georgia. However, the fact that he got as close as he did gives me a little bit of hope, which I'm trying to beat down to avoid any disappointment.

It sounded like the GOP candidates were essentially vomiting on each other in the primary. This might create a Bernie bro effect, thus denying Handel the unified GOP base she needs to win. This is particularly so given Handel has openly embraced Trump now that she's the nominee, which could help or hurt her depending on where things stand in June; it's officially a pro vs. anti-Trump race now.

On the other hand, the way Ossoff's campaign was spun as only having a chance if he won outright, that could depress Democrat turnout. On the flipside, the "sure win" the GOP is patting itself on the back for here could cause GOP turnout to slump, thus giving Ossoff the win in an upset even with lower numbers.

It's gonna be a nailbiting night, for sure.

I just want to see Trump's smug look finally wiped off his face in an election is all. Even if we all know he'll start saying Ossoff only won because several thousand illegal voters came out of nowhere. Republicans can only lose with widespread fraud in play, after all.

[KHCast]

23 minutes ago, Lord Liquir (Ogilvie) said:

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-court-gayconversion-idUSKBN17X1SJ

Religious conservatives seeking to overturn bans on conversion therapy were disappointed today; the Supreme Court refused to grant a hearing on the case. The result is that all 5 state bans on conversion therapy remain in effect, and more states can pass them if they wish.

 

Thank Christ, can't wait to see my salty conservative friends come up with some way to complain and blame the "soft left"

 

though the fact this was a thing to begin with that was pushed is disgusting regardless 

[8ther]

Shit...

http://www.fairvote.org/fairvote_s_projections_for_u_s_house_elections_in_2018

 

[Kevin]

After the insult Trump gave to Dickerson of "Face The Nation", you've got to hand it to Colbert for delivering this epic monologue.

[KHCast]

Oh my god, that was therapeutic. Good to know the media is still firmly fighting this massive sack of shit

[Tara]

Fox News used that monologue yesterday as proof that the left is out of control and I know Fox News has never been the pinnacle of news but this is pretty hilarious.  The alt right proposes gay conversion camps, a travel ban that targets registered, legal citizens of the United States, and literally entertains the thought of building a wall, but the left is out of control because they say a few angry words.  If that's the far right critetia for a loss of control, Bill O'Reilly, Glenn Beck, etc would have been fired years ago.

See it's not growing up in an entirely Republican household that upsets me, even if it does make me a minority in my own home.  What bothers me is their inability to see (And refusal to question) the blatant hypocrisy and dishonesty of extreme right media like Fox News.  Just fuuuuck.

[Nepenthe]

The ultimate belief underlying all this nonsense is that the only people's feelings who matter at the end of the day are white right-wingers'; anyone else is just crying about the consequences of their own mistakes and failures (but please understand and hold sympathy for the people who decided on their own to keep working in dying industries). The so-called culture war over "free speech" and "political correctness" is nothing but extended projection and hypocritically holding the other side to moral standards you would never hold yourself to in order to characterize them as weak-willed: talk shit about liberals being sensitive snowflakes while you get bent out of shape over people saying Happy Holidays or deciding to use their rightful freedom of assembly to stop associating with you because you think jokes using Nazi imagery are cool beans to advertisers. It's tired in how transparent it is at this point. Like, if right-wing pundits and alt-right rabblerousers didn't constantly lash out over basic criticism towards themselves- like if you couldn't shake them by just talking basic, 101-levels of sociopolitical critique- I would at least have a bit more respect for them in terms of consistency; "I don't agree there's anything morally wrong with being upset at dumb or bigoted shit, nor are emotions relevant to the veracity of any given argument at hand, but at least they actually uphold that principle themselves and don't care when they're criticized." But no, it's gotten to the point where our fucking President childishly walks out of an interview because he was asked about a claim he said. Talk about liberals being sensitive, but at least Obama didn't ever pussy out like this.

[KHCast]

Oh yeah didn't Trump sign a pro-religious free speech act today that can easily fuck over groups like LGBT?

[Johnny Boy]

Indeed he did. Jesus, even after Drumpf and his legion of doom are long gone, the shit he's doing is gonna take a long ass time to fix. 

[Nepenthe]

The original bill they drafted in February included a very blatant provision that said federal contractors could discriminate against LGBT people; The one he signed today just says that it will "vigorously promote religious liberty," whatever the fuck that even means. I mean, it still means nothing good for LGBT people, but I don't know the extent of legal provisions that even provides.

[KHCast]

I can see this benefitting family owned small town businesses like that cake shop that stood on religious rights ground for why they didn't personally want to sell that gay couple a cake, or that restaurant that stood on "family values" when denying service to gays

[Nepenthe]

Also, Obamacare repeal just squeaked by seconds ago in the House with 217 votes as of counting (No Dems voted for it). Now it goes to the Senate, where it'll likely die. But still, if you want to watch Republicans cheering and singing about trying to kill about 20 million people while giving a tax cut to the wealthy, you can watch the live aftermath on C-SPAN.

[KHCast]

https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2017/05/democrats-take-stand-lgbtq-rights-reintroducing-equality-act/

Well this is something good to hear. Hope it can get through...

[Tani Coyote]

That Executive Order just reinforces the case for single payer. Churches and the like don't want to support contraception? Fine. Not a problem if the state picks up the tab. Which is what will happen if the Democrats regain a majority and ram the Medicare for All bill through the House.

Speaking of rammed bills.

The House bill gives room for pessimism, but that narrow majority is very discouraging for the GOP's cause, given the House is the more partisan, radical chamber.

In the Senate, the GOP first has to argue that the bill is entirely budgetary to make it require only 51 votes, and that is a tough battle given provisions like removing pre-existing conditions protection. Even if that passes, we have about 5 moderate GOP Senators - Murkowski, Collins, Portman, Gardner, and Capito - who didn't like the original bill's removal of preexisting conditions, and 4 of them also complained to McConnell about the end of the Medicaid expansion. All 5 of these Senators, furthermore, are safe until 2020 or 2022 (in other words, Trump can slam his fists on the desk and Tweet "SAD!!!" all he wants, but they have no reason to care as he can't threaten them in the midterms, when they'd be most vulnerable). Murkowski made history by surviving being primaried back in 2010 and was one of the two GOP Senators to force Pence's historic vote on the appointment of Betsy DeVos. She's in office until 2023, so she's likely to be one of Trump's worst nightmares (even if he gets a second term, given she's from pretty right-leaning Alaska).

What I see as most likely is the moderate GOP revise the bill to restore preexisting conditions or protect the Medicaid expansion. The net result: it goes to a House-Senate committee that passes a final bill, and I assume it is going to fail either the House (by being too liberal) or Senate (by being too conservative).

The way it works, few Republicans want to appear as if they don't support President Trump. This in mind, they will try to keep the bill moving towards his desk with amendment after amendment so they can say they tried even when it combusts on a final vote. You read that right: conservative and libertarian politicians are very big on participation trophies.

With several years' worth of protections for preexisting conditions, don't be surprised if we see a court case being that the GOP's bill violates Equal Protection. Given how a conservative court ruled in favor of mandates and gay marriage, it's quite possible they will surprise us on this one too.

Either way, I'm predicting electoral fallout. Senior voters might reconsider their allegiance in coming elections if conservative Democrats appear who are liberal on healthcare. What's morbidly hilarious about the bill is it cuts Medicaid expansion on January 1, 2020. Let's read that closely: they are saying "screw the poor" in a Presidential election year, when people are the most inclined to turn out. Given Trump's already an unpopular President... let's be grateful the GOP leadership are questionably cerebral.

It'll be interesting to see what effect this has on the 5 House races being held in the next 2 months. 1 of those seats is a guaranteed Democrat (two Democrats in California), but 4 are Republican (Georgia, Montana, Pennsylvania, and South Carolina). If the Democrats can squeeze 3 of the 4 Republican seats, they'll have 217 votes, which would have been enough to block this bill from passing today.

We're going to get an idea how badly healthcare could cost the GOP in 2018, gerrymandering be damned. Particularly so if Democrats wise up and mention their broadly-backed Medicare for All bill on the campaign trail. It would be rather poetic if the healthcare issue that cost Democrats so much in 2010 swings the other way and cripples the GOP at the knee in 2018.

[Kevin]

It was absolutely sickening to watch this pass! This is a bill that got no score from the CBO and no hearings and even worse is they have the gall exempt themselves from being affected by this terrible bill.

I was born 3 months premature with a ton of health problems that be considered pre-existing conditions. Even though I'm covered through an employer plan, if this get signed into law, I may never be able to get insurance because of my pre-existing conditions. Millions of people are going to lose insurance and it's horrifying to see the GOP celebrating this. I want to say that I hope that the Senate will have a brain and consider this DOA, but I'm not so sure.

Oh and that press conference....dear god that was painful to watch! The "leadership" and "determination" of the President? Yeah right! This bill, which the public hates was rammed through! I'm really hoping that those who've voted for this bill lose their political careers in '18 and '20.

[Tani Coyote]

Let's also read between the lines and note this bill basically says that victims of sexual assault are out of luck. PTSD, STDs, stress, emotional disturbance... all legal grounds to deny people care under this bill.

The "lol $8 billion" is a joke and nothing more. Distributed across all the people who lose care it is peanuts.

So yeah. If there was ever a reason to say "fuck you" or some variant to a politician, this is it. This is a bill that says victims of rape and abuse aren't entitled to any sort of recovery process.

These "run the government like a business" types are the best case against capitalism I have ever heard. They don't understand it is more cost-effective to cover preventive care than allow a condition to fester and become even more expensive to treat down the line.

Or more likely, they do, but they get to use their pre-existing fortunes and their cushy public benefits to avoid the repercussions of their behavior.

[Nepenthe]

Read the list of preexisting conditions you can be denied for, and even heartburn is one of them.

Heartburn.

Same with "transexualism."

But hey, we showed those elitist liberals, amirite?

[CleverSonicUsername]

Today's news gives me indigestion, which under this new bill would probably count as a preexisting condition.

[KHCast]

59 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

Read the list of preexisting conditions you can be denied for, and even heartburn is one of them.

Heartburn.

Same with "transexualism."

But hey, we showed those elitist liberals, amirite?

I seriously can't believe this isn't a sick joke...fuck

[Tani Coyote]

I bet anything pre-existing conditions is considered by many to be like terminal stage cancer or something, because that's the only way most could even think removing the protection is a good idea.

Then again, pre-existing condition protection is widely seen as one of the best parts of the Affordable Care Act. Trump backed it, the moderate GOP Senators have backed it... to see it removed is insane. I'm guessing they must be really trying to sell that token $8 billion as some huge amount, because people assume only a handful of people are in need of that subsidy.

In fairness, the risk pool will go a long way for insurance companies. They just take on a fraction of who was covered under the current rules and collect a nice paycheck between the premiums and risk subsidies.

I really hope this blows up massively in the GOP's face over the next few weeks with these special elections, through the state races in this November, and finally next November.

[KHCast]

http://www.newnownext.com/alabama-adoption-lgbt-parents-religious-liberty/05/2017/

fucking Christ, the rollercoaster won't stop.:-/

[Patticus]

I have no idea what it is that makes conservatives so unutterably callous, all too happy to persecute entire groups of people, but it's really bloody annoying. Can we stop it with the archaic mindsets and move the fuck into this century please?