The General 'Murican Politics Thread

[KHCast]

33 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

All of the hate/slander/racism/bigotry toward white people is the main cause of this over the years, and to say this isn't a factor, and likely a massive one at that, would be blind.

How about those same people look at the reason beforehand for why people are upset at them? People are upset over immagration and minority problems? Then how about fucking fix them vs justify why they don't deserve equal rights like them and then complain that they're complaining?

 

lets not equalize both sides as sharing the same amount of fault.

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, KHCast said:

How about those same people look at the reason beforehand for why people are upset at them? People are upset over immagration and minority problems? Then how about fucking fix them vs justify why they don't deserve equal rights like them and then complain that they're complaining?

Keep in mind, as I've mentioned elsewhere before my mindset is very Japanese when it comes to civilization. I think everyone should assimilate together, ignore differences and just go to work, build the country, profit and eventually retire happy. If we focus on how we're nothing other than collectively human instead of how we have white pride, black pride, Latino pride, LGBT pride, man pride, woman pride, etc we can move on from how we're different no matter what way it is we're different and how that's somehow so great and instead work towards a futuristic and more sustainable country that better suits our next generations instead of passing on nothing but a mess to them where we're all so different and proud of ourselves all we can do is sneer at whoever isn't like us and fight with/kill those who aren't like whatever or whoever we are.

I'm happy working with and getting in bed with any color of the rainbow in this world. I don't see any difference in anyone really. If the world would follow suit we could all move on from a lot of the chaos happening now. But it has to end with pride being abandoned first and foremost otherwise it will continue driving everyone to rebel against one another and kill.

[Kuzu]

24 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

See?

That's something that helped fuel all this. My point isn't that it gives white people the right to retaliate this way, the point is statements like that from so many over the years helped lead up to what's happening. It's poking the lion and now the lion it retaliating in a rabid manner.

It's not right, but it's human nature. We attack when provoked too much. This goes for all races really, it isn't just this or that one. White people are nowhere near as privileged as folks might believe nowadays, certainly not in the US as they have the hardest time getting benefits and as a majority they pay the most into the benefits being given to minorities. There are many things that should be taken into consideration more but the view toward white people tends to be very narrow minded and ignorant in the grand scheme out of being raised to ignore the whole truth and instead focus on the partial segments.

I'm not saying any of what's happening is right. None of it should be happening as life is something you cannot replace. But it's something that WAS fueled by the hatred. Hate is met with hate. It takes two in order to tango. Something had to happen for one side to be coaxed enough into attacking/killing the other, and that's where my theory/stance comes from.

 

This attitude is exactly the same Trump's atm, "Blaming both sides". Just throwing that out there.

[Chris Knopps]

7 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

 

This attitude is exactly the same Trump's atm, "Blaming both sides". Just throwing that out there.

That's because that's precisely what I'm doing but in a more thought out and reasonable manner.

To say one side is wholeheartedly innocent and did nothing to instigate the eventual act is unreasonable.

There had to be a specific series/number of actions to garner the type of reactions we're seeing now.

It's as I said. Hate is always met with hate in the end. We hate each other, thus killing follows suit at some point.

I just wish that point hadn't been reached and instead we followed suit with my most recent comment.

Quote

lets not equalize both sides as sharing the same amount of fault.

And yes, lets do exactly JUST that actually.

Again, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

For what happened to occur, there HAS to be reasons behind it.

Not necessarily due to parties involved, but due to parties RELEVANT to those involved.

In this case, very unfortunately, whites vs blacks.

It's pretty depressing that this mess is having to happen all over again in our lifetime, but it is and here we are.

[Kuzu]

6 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

That's because that's precisely what I'm doing but in a more thought out and reasonable manner.

To say one side is wholeheartedly innocent and did nothing to instigate the eventual act is unreasonable.

There had to be a specific series/number of actions to garner the type of reactions we're seeing now.

It's as I said. Hate is always met with hate in the end. We hate each other, thus killing follows suit at some point.

I just wish that point hadn't been reached and instead we followed suit with my most recent comment.

So it's unreasonable for people to fight against racist symbols and bigotry now, gotcha. I don't really care about anyone's reasons, if you're going to endorse 400 years of abuse and segregation on one race, then you can kindly fuck off.

And the very fact that you're trying to defend these people is ludicrous to me. 

[Chris Knopps]

4 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

So it's unreasonable for people to fight against racist symbols and bigotry now, gotcha. I don't really care about anyone's reasons, if you're going to endorse 400 years of abuse and segregation on one race, then you can kindly fuck off.

And the very fact that you're trying to defend these people is ludicrous to me. 

Not sure how that came into this, but no, THAT isn't unreasonable at all. If nothing else, I encourage it.

Unfortunately the methods used to do so are often less than desirable.

I'm also not endorsing any kind of abuse or segregation to races. I'm saying there are reasons as to why it's happening.

Action and reaction logic, basically.

My point isn't to DEFEND murderers or anyone of the like, but EXPLAIN the occurrence, the how and why's and such.

There's a difference between analyzing and defending. To defend means saying the criminals are good/innocent people, and that's not what's going on, nor do I intend to do such a thing.

[Rusty Spy]

1 hour ago, Chris Knopps said:

Not sure how that came into this, but no, THAT isn't unreasonable at all. If nothing else, I encourage it.

Unfortunately the methods used to do so are often less than desirable.

I'm also not endorsing any kind of abuse or segregation to races. I'm saying there are reasons as to why it's happening.

Action and reaction logic, basically.

My point isn't to DEFEND murderers or anyone of the like, but EXPLAIN the occurrence, the how and why's and such.

There's a difference between analyzing and defending. To defend means saying the criminals are good/innocent people, and that's not what's going on, nor do I intend to do such a thing.

While I see where your coming from, the thing that I feel needs to be said above all else, is that those opposing racists and bigots must avoid and condemn violence and abusive actions. Antifa and other anti-white-supremacists have to remain peaceful and non-provocative in situations like Charlottesville.

Even if it doesn't make the right anymore peaceful, one thing will happen; eventually, everyone will see them as the assholes.

[Tornado]

A country cannot get heavily politically polarized due to the actions of only one group. Where the chicken/egg situation plays out is a different matter entirely (the current landscape can probably be most directly traced to Nixon's policies, since that is where the concept of a "silent majority" was codified and weaponized against rights groups and protesters), but just because a cause are fighting (or claim to be fighting) for a better purpose doesn't mean the actions therein are automatically defensible.

 

 

Nor does it mean that "both sides" don't have extreme problems when it comes to dealing with viewpoints other than whatever the cause supposedly represents.

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Rusty Spy said:

While I see where your coming from, the thing that I feel needs to be said above all else, is that those opposing racists and bigots must avoid and condemn violence and abusive actions. Antifa and other anti-white-supremacists have to remain peaceful and non-provocative in situations like Charlottesville.

Even if it doesn't make the right anymore peaceful, one thing will happen; eventually, everyone will see them as the assholes.

I'm all for sticking up for rights like I said. But the problem is, and this goes for those in all races and sexualities, is that their methods tend to be questionable.

Be it killing officers, looting and destruction, graffiti, obstructing public spaces, forcing opposing people away and instilling forms of silence/submission.

Protests are all well and good, but in my opinion, there's no better way to make change than by becoming someone with a career that gives you the ability to make those changes more than just being a loud voice in the streets.

If your will for better is strong enough, work hard, gain knowledge, climb the ladder and put yourself in one of the many seats out there people of all sexualities and races are already filling that are allowing them to make changes the same as you want to.

[Dizcrybe]

How did we come to the conclusion that the people fighting for a minority-free America and the people fighting against the people fighting for a minority-free America are in any way equal? Honestly the whole thing just sounds like blame-shifting to me.

Furthermore, if we must play the "who started it" game, the sole existence of neo-nazis and white nationalists and Trump vindicating them time and again is why we have antifa in the first place.

1 hour ago, Tornado said:

Nor does it mean that "both sides" don't have extreme problems when it comes to dealing with viewpoints other than whatever the cause supposedly represents.

I'm pretty sure no one actually said this, but that one side's problems are far more pressing than the other's at current. No prizes for guessing which one is which.

[Tornado]

Quote

I'm pretty sure no one actually said this, but that one side's problems are far more pressing than the other's at current. No prizes for guessing which one is which.

And if a Black Lives Matter supporter drives his car into a group of policemen monitoring a BLM protest, the shoe would go right back on the other foot. Or the next time an Antifa march leads to another person getting beaten or stabbed by an Antifa member.

 

 

One side's problems are far more pressing because one side is currently under the microscope following a violent act done for its particular hot cause (in this case, the age old Southern Values nonsense and some pushback against perceived political correctness gone mad). Don't pretend that that won't change as soon as one of the "left" groups does something similar; because neither side is particularly mainstream to the public at large. No humongous hidden sect of America is really much of a fan of Neo-nazis anymore than they are the KKK, but BLM and especially Antifa don't have the most sterling reputation either.

[Dizcrybe]

18 minutes ago, Tornado said:

And if a Black Lives Matter supporter drives his car into a group of policemen monitoring a BLM protest, the shoe would go right back on the other foot. Or the next time an Antifa march leads to another person getting beaten or stabbed by an Antifa member.

 

35 minutes ago, Dizcrybe said:

I'm pretty sure no one actually said this, but that one side's problems are far more pressing than the other's at current.

Put that part there for a reason. I'm sure the focus would shift to antifa or BLM if they killed/seriously injured someone. But until that happens, all this talk about "BUT THE RADICAL LEFT" and similar deflections will remain the political equivalent of "no u".

[Tornado]

22 minutes ago, Dizcrybe said:

Put that part there for a reason. I'm sure the focus would shift to antifa or BLM if they killed/seriously injured someone.

Someone supposedly from Antifa tried to cave a reporter's head in in Richmond all of one day after that guy drove his car into the protestors in Charlottesville. I mentioned "the next time" because it has been curiously underreported compared to the media having a field day with Trump talking about assholes in all of these extreme protest groups as if it wasn't true (or the stupid amount of time it took him to say anything).

 

 

I'd be more impressed with the claims of "deflections" if violence (or calls for violence) weren't such a common response even among the groups that aren't a bunch of white supremacists.

[Tani Coyote]

4 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

then you can kindly fuck off.

I understand the frustration but I think it's best we all avoid telling each other "fuck off" or some variant.

4 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

\White people are nowhere near as privileged as folks might believe nowadays, certainly not in the US as they have the hardest time getting benefits and

I want a source on this.

If anything non-whites should have the hardest time getting benefits by merit of a pervasive stereotype of laziness.

Quote

as a majority they pay the most into the benefits being given to minorities.

...it helps they also have a concentration of financial opportunity, which will cause them to pay more into a progressive tax system.

Quote

But it's something that WAS fueled by the hatred. Hate is met with hate. It takes two in order to tango. Something had to happen for one side to be coaxed enough into attacking/killing the other, and that's where my theory/stance comes from.

Absolutely, but in a situation like this it's particularly egregious. Trump's defending a group that ranges from white supremacists to slavery apologists. It's not like it's the whole of the Republican base.

We must also remember there's an innate inequality of the hate and violence here.

One side is proposing creating a second class of citizens. The other is retaliating against that. Yes, violence creates more violence, but it's eyebrow raising to act like they're equally at fault. The second group wouldn't be so large and active if it wasn't trying to defend against the first.

4 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

Keep in mind, as I've mentioned elsewhere before my mindset is very Japanese when it comes to civilization. I think everyone should assimilate together, ignore differences and just go to work, build the country, profit and eventually retire happy. If we focus on how we're nothing other than collectively human instead of how we have white pride, black pride, Latino pride, LGBT pride, man pride, woman pride, etc

Please tell me you're aware that Japanese culture is fairly homogenous, and so insanely xenophobic that even people who are descended from Japanese emigrants who try to immigrate back into Japan are discriminated against.

The Japanese come from a position of privilege to have that mentality, as they have nowhere near the diversity of the USA.

Worth recalling the outright savagery the Japanese in World War II treated the Chinese and Allied POWs with as well. Savagery they are fairly lukewarm on apologizing for compared to say, the Germans with the Holocaust. The idea their culture has somehow risen above ours in humanitarianism and harmony is a myth.

2 hours ago, Rusty Spy said:

While I see where your coming from, the thing that I feel needs to be said above all else, is that those opposing racists and bigots must avoid and condemn violence and abusive actions. Antifa and other anti-white-supremacists have to remain peaceful and non-provocative in situations like Charlottesville.

Even if it doesn't make the right anymore peaceful, one thing will happen; eventually, everyone will see them as the assholes.

It's a fair consideration. As strong as the built up frustration is, it's often counterproductive to let it explode into violence (though there are of course exceptions).

Consider the nationwide riots that broke out after Dr. King's assassination. A lot of people might handwave that as frustration that a peaceful leader was murdered, but those riots gave a blank check to rapid expansion of the police state, the War on Drugs, etc.

Being the bigger man isn't feel good bullshit. It's actually a pragmatic response to keep a situation from deteriorating. At some point, one side has to go "stop," because otherwise you end up with a cycle of vengeance.

And honestly, I'd be inclined to say it would likely be the minority side. They're the ones who have put up with abuse for centuries.

And indeed, I do recall my fair share of peaceful protesters trying to stop riots and looting. They understand it doesn't help their cause. It just sends the majority rushing into the arms of expanded police budgets.

[Dizcrybe]

48 minutes ago, Tornado said:

Someone supposedly from Antifa tried to cave a reporter's head in in Richmond all of one day after that guy drove his car into the protestors in Charlottesville. I mentioned "the next time" because it has been curiously underreported compared to the media having a field day with Trump talking about assholes in all of these extreme protest groups as if it wasn't true (or the stupid amount of time it took him to say anything).

 

 

I'd be more impressed with the claims of "deflections" if violence (or calls for violence) weren't such a common response even among the groups that aren't a bunch of white supremacists.

Some douche telling a news cameraman not to do his job before bashing him in the head, while awful, is still not tantamount to driving a car into a crowd of protesters, injuring 19 people and killing one more in the process, one.

Two, let's remind ourselves what these people stand for. One side is fighting for the purging of non-white races, the other side is fighting against it. No one is saying that Antifa are "automatically defensible" because of their positions, just that a group of people dedicated to stopping white supremacy/nationalism are not the same as those of a group of people essentially trying to realize an American Holocaust just because the former are often overzealous about it.

[Rusty Spy]

1 minute ago, Dizcrybe said:

Some douche telling a news cameraman not to do his job before bashing him in the head, while awful, is still not tantamount to driving a car into a crowd of protesters, injuring 19 people and killing one more in the process, one.

Two, let's remind ourselves what these people stand for. One side is fighting for the purging of non-white races, the other side is fighting against it. No one is saying that Antifa are "automatically defensible" because of their positions, just that a group of people dedicated to stopping white supremacy/nationalism are not the same as those of a group of people essentially trying to realize an American Holocaust just because the former are often overzealous about it.

'He who fights monsters' my friend.

[Chris Knopps]

Being honest I'm sick of "good" causes being turned into "vengeance" causes.

I was an admirer of the most recent one, Black Lives Matter, it was pretty amazing at first, then the actions of the few ruined the name of the cause for the many.

It would be nice to get one "progressive" cause that doesn't wind up tainted in the long run with vengeance ideals and unlawful acts under its name.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

16 minutes ago, Rusty Spy said:

'He who fights monsters' my friend.

Mildly offtopic, but is it just me, or do you ever notice how this trope always seems to apply to a person who is usually a minority or someone who has genuinely been wronged, but almost never talks about how the original people who did the thing that wronged the guy who turned into a monster were monsters who deserved to be punished, instead never addressing their part in the crime?

[Tornado]

32 minutes ago, Dizcrybe said:

Some douche telling a news cameraman not to do his job before bashing him in the head, while awful, is still not tantamount to driving a car into a crowd of protesters, injuring 19 people and killing one more in the process, one.

And here I thought the standard was if someone acting for one of thee groups "seriously injured someone". I was unaware there had to be a quota of violence carried out by a single individual before it counted.

Quote

No one is saying that Antifa are "automatically defensible" because of their positions,

That's strange, because I read a long string of people making that exact charge this morning.

[KHCast]

5 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

If your will for better is strong enough, work hard, gain knowledge, climb the ladder and put yourself in one of the many seats out there people of all sexualities and races are already filling that are allowing them to make changes the same as you want to

Kinda hard to do that when actual discrimination in the workfield and schools exists. Your mindset acts as if anyone can make it and that there's no actual issues holding anyone back except for themselves. And given your "white people arent that privileged" view, yeah it seems like you're plugging your ears as the countless examples of persecution and prejudice against other groups that aren't the majority in America.

for example, Hollywood actively from what I've heard will blacklist or make it harder for openly gay actors to find work, hence why there are barely any out actors. Sports sponsor less openly gay athletes a lot of times, which is why we see barely any openly LGBT athletes.

[Chris Knopps]

4 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Kinda hard to do that when actual discrimination in the workfield and schools exists. Your mindset acts as if anyone can make it and that there's no actual issues holding anyone back except for themselves. And given your "white people arent that privileged" view, yeah it seems like you're plugging your ears as the countless examples of persecution and prejudice against other groups that aren't the majority in America.

Well, considering we've had a black president, most of the leads at my work are black women, even the manager is a black woman...

Then you have countless races, genders, and sexualities in the entertainment industry now...

Yeah, the only logical excuse I accept for one being held back is self-victimizing really when it comes to ones position.

There are hurdles for everybody. Prove yourself worthy and you can cross them no matter who you are.

In short, work for it.

That fails?

WORK HARDER!

Then like everybody else, your time will come in, well, due time.

Reality gives no handouts no matter who you are.

Blaming the white folks is easy. Making something of yourself without doing so is the real challenge.

And then when you DO make something of yourself...?

You stand all the taller my friend.

[KHCast]

You are aware Obama had to work his ass 10 times harder to get in the positions he did BECAUSE of his skin color right? That's the issue. Sure people can make it, but some of those "hurdles" are bullshit racist, homophobic, etc, that have no place in whether someone deserves the position. Also your experience and what you've seen, isn't everyone's. Again, you're fucking kidding me if you're acting like there's no racism or prejudice in these situations

4 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Then you have countless races, genders, and sexualities in the entertainment industry now...

Uh huh. And how many of those aren't stereotypical LGBT roles/actors? Cause I can't really name many. 

[Chris Knopps]

4 minutes ago, KHCast said:

You are aware Obama had to work his ass 10 times harder to get in the positions he did BECAUSE of his skin color right? That's the issue. Sure people can make it, but some of those "hurdles" are bullshit racist, homophobic, etc, that have no place in whether someone deserves the position 

Do you have proof of that? Any records or anything in particular? Show me, don't just tell me, thank you.

You're delving into "White Hate" territory here on your end.

Everybody is faced with challenges in this world, majorities and minorities.

What makes you a bigger and better person is moving forward, and upward in life without looking at others in spite and saying "I BLAME YOU!!!" for it all.

These are also the people that DO move up. Instead of blaming, they work hard.

Again, my own manager is a black woman, and d@$n if I don't love her more than any boss I've had.

She's a good hard worker that treats folks right, all that matters.

[KHCast]

 

2 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Do you have proof of that? Any records or anything in particular? Show me, don't just tell me, thank you

Oh the irony 

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, KHCast said:

 

Oh the irony 

Perhaps, but instead of talking about the poor black man, prove he was a poor black man.

I think he has done pretty well for himself without relying on blaming and shaming.

That's how he got where he was. he knew what he wanted to do and just DID it.

He didn't waste time putting other people/races down, he just DID IT.

Anyone can if they try hard enough, all of the minorities making it big in the world today are proof of that.

All of the minorities in the legal fields.

All of the minorities in the movies.

Games. TV. etc.

Though for some reason these accomplishments get brushed aside.