The General 'Murican Politics Thread

[KHCast]

4 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

You're delving into "White Hate" territory here on your end

How?

4 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Everybody is faced with challenges in this world, majorities and minorities.

And racism shouldn't be a "challenge" we sit down and accept 

5 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Again, my own manager is a black woman, and d@$n if I don't love her more than any boss I've had.

Her experience with this is not indicative of everyone's. Many work just as hard and don't get the work they're just as or even more qualified for. 

[Chris Knopps]

3 minutes ago, KHCast said:

And racism shouldn't be a "challenge" we sit down and accept 

Her experience with this is not indicative of everyone's. Many work just as hard and don't get the work they're just as or even more qualified for. 

Well then, if a job isn't giving you the work/pay you deserve, move onto another job.

All races have this common sense. Even the white people put up with and do the same.

And as far as racism being an issue in the work force...

Again, there are many, MANY that are having successful lives/careers out there.

It's a matter of paying attention to reality and not the media.

[KHCast]

5 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

All of the minorities in the legal fields.

All of the minorities in the movies.

Games. TV. etc.

Though for some reason these accomplishments get brushed aside.

If you're honestly using these fields which have lots of issues regarding representation, lol. Games have slim to no gay people, AAA women led games(as rare as they are) usually get half the marketing push, they're usually sexualized, black people are rare, and tv and film relies usually on stereotypes regarding certain groups 

 

and no I'm not gonna move on. I'm gonna fight to make these things right, and for equality to be better pushed into these fields  

[Chris Knopps]

7 minutes ago, KHCast said:

If you're honestly using these fields which have lots of issues regarding representation, lol. Games have slim to no gay people, AAA women led games(as rare as they are) usually get half the marketing push, they're usually sexualized, black people are rare, and tv and film relies usually on stereotypes regarding certain groups 

Of course games are slim in gay territory, gay hasn't been a legal thing for very long and is still a VERY sensitive topic in many territories. It will take time to normalize enough to a degree where widespread representation in game media is more inviting and profitable.

You can't train a dog to back flip in a day. It takes patience.

As far as women being sexualized in games, that's the appeal of the female species.

Same as men being sexualized, DBZ as one example.

Curvy women and macho men with skimpy clothes and shirtless bodies have appealed to both sexes for hundreds/thousands of years.

Shantae was actually created by a woman as an example of women being comfortable with sexualization as a natural thing.

As far as TV and films stereotyping people...

I must be blind because I don't see it much nowadays compared to the 90's especially.

You've got bi/lesbian stuff like Korra and Steven Universe going on for kids even.

Representation IS out there and IS growing if you're willing to take notice and let the steam inside you cool so you can see what's out there.

Edit

Actually... I believe Tyler Perry is known for using black stereotypes to his advantage in what he works on, but he's black as well so do with that what you will.

[KHCast]

Are you...I'm fucking done. The fact you're justifying this shit with really questionable defenses jusy is boggling my mind. Peace 

 

mans 2 cartoons with gay/bi women. Neato

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, KHCast said:

Are you...I'm fucking done. The fact you're justifying this shit with really questionable defenses jusy is boggling my mind. Peace 

 

mans 2 cartoons with gay/bi women. Neato

I'm...

Not sure what exactly I'm justifying here...

But alright. Nice talking with you.

[KHCast]

Well, you're justifying gay people not being represented in things like games because...it's only been legal for a while?(nevermind it's existed largely and even openly for 100's of years) also acting like it's some super hard concept to implement into a video game. you're excusing women's  depictions only being sexual as a good thing, and equalize it to men which...I'll just post this 

You're ignoring the lack of gay non stereotypical men, openly bi characters, etc. and you're acting like there's no issues because they SOMETIMES get a bone thrown.

Oh one woman made a sexual looking character, that undermines that woman don't like they're overly sexualised constantly in games.  

[Tani Coyote]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/states-challenge-confederate-monuments-references-charlottesville-virginia/

The Unite the Right rally is turning into America's version of the Rathenau assassination in Weimar Germany.

Just as Rathenau's murder prompted Germany to start cracking down on political violence, the violence at this rally is putting white supremacists and the neo-Confederates on the retreat everywhere.

We have Discord shutting down alt-right servers, GoDaddy shutting down the Daily Stormer (although I've heard it has since found a new home in Russia), and now there are bills being introduced at the city, state, and federal levels to remove Confederate monuments. In some places, Confederate monuments are being torn down illegally as well.

It really should be the "Unite Everyone Against the Right" rally if anything. There's a huge tide of energy that's been unleashed by this, and while many Republican politicians seem interested in token condemnation, they're not going to really try and stop this either.

I wouldn't be surprised if within the decade, most Confederate monuments have either been destroyed or relocated to museums.

My only concern is that removing all the monuments will be treated as a "see we're not racist" moment. The fact the monuments still exist is a huge testament to present day racism.

4 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

It would be nice to get one "progressive" cause that doesn't wind up tainted in the long run with vengeance ideals and unlawful acts under its name.

As many a political scientist, theorist, etc. has stated, politics is not the field to go into if you want to be a good person.

It is a field that inherently involves a lot of coercion, which inherently involves eventually using violence.

Even the most transparent, most just government on Earth ultimately derives its power from the fact it can imprison and kill its citizens.

Or in other words, it's pretty much impossible for any political movement to not have some association with violence.

The only way we can really compare them isn't who is violent and who is not, but who prevents the most violence.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

4 minutes ago, Lord Basil (Ogilvie) said:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/states-challenge-confederate-monuments-references-charlottesville-virginia/

The Unite the Right rally is turning into America's version of the Rathenau assassination in Weimar Germany.

Just as Rathenau's murder prompted Germany to start cracking down on political violence, the violence at this rally is putting white supremacists and the neo-Confederates on the retreat everywhere.

We have Discord shutting down alt-right servers, GoDaddy shutting down the Daily Stormer (although I've heard it has since found a new home in Russia), and now there are bills being introduced at the city, state, and federal levels to remove Confederate monuments. In some places, Confederate monuments are being torn down illegally as well.

It really should be the "Unite Everyone Against the Right" rally if anything. There's a huge tide of energy that's been unleashed by this, and while many Republican politicians seem interested in token condemnation, they're not going to really try and stop this either.

I wouldn't be surprised if within the decade, most Confederate monuments have either been destroyed or relocated to museums.

My only concern is that removing all the monuments will be treated as a "see we're not racist" moment. The fact the monuments still exist is a huge testament to present day racism.

Is that a good or a bad thing? I haven't brushed up on my history of Weimar Germany in a while.

Also on a side note, do you spend your free time reading history text books or something? Because you always seem to be really knowledgeable about these things.

[Tani Coyote]

8 minutes ago, SenEDDtor Missile said:

Is that a good or a bad thing? I haven't brushed up on my history of Weimar Germany in a while.

Good, if the comparison holds. The Rathenau assassination leads into the part of the 1920s that is largely stable in Germany. Things don't start collapsing again until towards the end of the 1920s, when the Depression hits and the public loses confidence in the Republic's ability to manage the economy (and scores of other crap).

As for us, it does open a path forward. We're going to be doing some reflection on our history and what's acceptable in terms of free assembly. We have to ask ourselves if neo-Nazis really deserve the broad free speech protections they have now, or if we should tighten it a little. Same goes for neo-Confederates. We're establishing that while a private citizen might be able to fly the Stars and Bars, Confederate symbolism has no business in official spaces.

I don't think it will be a huge mood shift in race relations, but it's certainly a step forward.

If we're lucky, maybe the revised opinion of the Confederacy will translate into a revised opinion on states' rights, which tends to coincidentally have its strongest proponents in the neo-Confederate states. Hmm.

Quote

Also on a side note, do you spend your free time reading history text books or something? Because you always seem to be really knowledgeable about these things.

Why thank you! I do a lot of reading, but it also helps that I'm a History major. US history concentration, with a European minor.

[Dizcrybe]

6 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

Well then, if a job isn't giving you the work/pay you deserve, move onto another job.

Do you have any idea of how the job search process works? You don't just go down to the job store, grab a position at the Apple Store and leave. You can't just "move on" from one job to the next, that's not how it works.

8 hours ago, Tornado said:

And here I thought the standard was if someone acting for one of thee groups "seriously injured someone". I was unaware there had to be a quota of violence carried out by a single individual before it counted.

My point is there's "bad" and a "worse" here, but Trump, his cronies, and even a few people in this thread are hellbent as portraying them as "equals", all because "they both hurt people".

6 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

These are also the people that DO move up. Instead of blaming, they work hard.

Again, my own manager is a black woman, and d@$n if I don't love her more than any boss I've had.

She's a good hard worker that treats folks right, all that matters.

One, you might as well be saying "some of my best friends are black!"

Two, since you seem to be going full "bootstraps" here, lemme explain real quick why this is bunk.

While the idea that if you just work hard enough, you'll eventually be successful and rich or whatever is nice to think about, it's not true. It just isn't. Life isn't some video game that you can "beat" or a coming of age story where characters go through trials and tribulations and eventually get a happy ending. This is the real world; the universe isn't going to shower you with riches just because you put in a little more work than everyone else. There are countless people that work their asses off every day and have been for decades and still live in poverty. Some of them are single mothers living in the ghetto trying to raise multiple children, some of them are coal miners, some of them are farmers. Success isn't magically granted to you after a certain amount of time because you work hard. It's granted to you through a combination of luck, connections, and whether the right people like you enough.

Edited August 17, 2017 by Dizcrybe
Forgot I posted already, please delete second post

[Patticus]

Job hopping looks terrible to prospective employers (outside of seasonal work) too, because they're looking for people who can commit on a long-term basis to a position, regardless of whether the person deserves more pay or work/hours.

I know for a fact that everyone in my division a work is grossly underpaid for the amount of hours and work they do, in fact most of the businesses the town in which I live seem to be known for underpaying employees across the board. Could we find other jobs? Potentially - our turnover rate is ridiculous, so people are looking elsewhere, but you're not guaranteed another job if you leave your current one, and if your pay is at the level where taking a new job would mean a severe cut in your income, then just up and leaving is very often not an option. Plus, if the benefits package is good enough, the employer (as mine does) will use that to try to keep people from leaving, despite poor treatment, working conditions, pay etc.

Working in America just fucking sucks. The hours are either way too many or too few, pay is often too low, basic conditions and treatment by the company/bosses are often really bad, favoritism and nepotism are rampant... Honestly, it's no wonder so many people don't even want to look for work. It's a nightmare.

[Chris Knopps]

9 hours ago, KHCast said:

Well, you're justifying gay people not being represented in things like games because...it's only been legal for a while?(nevermind it's existed largely and even openly for 100's of years) also acting like it's some super hard concept to implement into a video game. you're excusing women's  depictions only being sexual as a good thing, and equalize it to men which...I'll just post this 

You're ignoring the lack of gay non stereotypical men, openly bi characters, etc. and you're acting like there's no issues because they SOMETIMES get a bone thrown.

Oh one woman made a sexual looking character, that undermines that woman don't like they're overly sexualised constantly in games.  

You sure love your victim songs in politics, don't you?

Pity everybody and just give them everything. That's clearly the answer you're looking for.

2 hours ago, Patticus said:

Working in America just fucking sucks. The hours are either way too many or too few, pay is often too low, basic conditions and treatment by the company/bosses are often really bad, favoritism and nepotism are rampant... Honestly, it's no wonder so many people don't even want to look for work. It's a nightmare.

That I can agree with. Though to be clear it's not just one race that plays favoritism.

2 hours ago, Dizcrybe said:

Some of them are single mothers living in the ghetto trying to raise multiple children, some of them are coal miners, some of them are farmers. Success isn't magically granted to you after a certain amount of time because you work hard. It's granted to you through a combination of luck, connections, and whether the right people like you enough.

I have zero pity/care for single mothers with multiple children. That was their doing for the most part and/or their mistake. My own mother had me and my sisters and still worked hard to support us. Never complained, knew what she did, and did what was necessary to pay for it all. That's how life is. It's called responsibility, an argument anyone shouting the poor women card loathes to the core.

I do agree with your statement though at the end. That tends to be how it works for everybody. You have to make connections, strike gold basically, and hope.

[Dizcrybe]

46 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

I have zero pity/care for single mothers with multiple children. That was their doing for the most part and/or their mistake. My own mother had me and my sisters and still worked hard to support us. Never complained, knew what she did, and did what was necessary to pay for it all. That's how life is. It's called responsibility, an argument anyone shouting the poor women card loathes to the core.

I do agree with your statement though at the end. That tends to be how it works for everybody. You have to make connections, strike gold basically, and hope.

Ah, so it's the mother's fault her husband walked out on her, leaving her broke with three mouths to feed, forcing her to take two jobs just to support them. Gotcha,

So your mom played by the rules and everything just worked out in the end. Good for her. The vast majority of people are not that fortunate. What of those farmer and coal workers I mentioned? They work day and night for them and theirs. They're not exactly living in mansions, sipping fine wine while chamber musicians play in the corner.

Your last sentence basically undoes your entire post, anyway. Not only did you admit that making connections is necessary after implying that one must bear the brunt of their mistakes alone with no outside assistance, but you can't just tell someone to just "hope" to strike gold, because the chances of that happening for most people are slim to fucking none. You might as well be saying "Are you broke? Just win the lottery!" at this point.Whether one becomes successful or not is dependent on luck. Luck to know the right people, luck to meet the right people, luck for them to give you a chance... or luck to be born into an already filthy-rich family. The Powers That Be don't go looking for the hardest working people and shower them with fortune; it's almost entirely random.

I would talk about how various bias also play a part in the whole thing, but I can already tell that'd be a dead end street.

46 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

You sure love your victim songs in politics, don't you?

Pity everybody and just give them everything. That's clearly the answer you're looking for.

Also, you completely failed to argue anything KHCast said here, one.

Two, you're in no position to talk about "victim songs" after this:

18 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

All of the hate/slander/racism/bigotry toward white people is the main cause of this over the years,

[KHCast]

2 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

You sure love your victim songs in politics, don't you?

Pity everybody and just give them everything. That's clearly the answer you're looking for.

You didn't even argue against anything I said, and did the generic conservative thing, and assume wanting better treatment and representation in these fields is akin to "wah give them everything, spoiled minority". At least try and not look like a obvious privileged person that acts like whatever issues minorities have in this country isn't unreasonable

unrelated, but found this insightful comic 

 

[Tani Coyote]

3 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

I have zero pity/care for single mothers with multiple children. That was their doing for the most part and/or their mistake.

Hey Chris.

Abstinence only isn't a viable doctrine. People love to have sex.

Even if they do take protection, condoms break, birth control fails, etc. I'll note that a lot of people spouting the same argument as you here are the ones most interested in gutting Planned Parenthood, when it's a leading provider of sex education and contraceptives. The conservative viewpoint falls short because while it cries crocodile tears over abortion, next to nothing is done to prevent accidental pregnancies or take care of kids who are actually born.

What's more, having a parent as a caregiver is a key part of a child's development. A parent who has to work is already under a lot of stress, and that can impact child raising. The statistics are clear that children from single parent homes have higher rates of poor school performance and higher rates of crime. This isn't a demonization of single parenthood though: I'd argue what's at fault is single parents aren't allowed to devote all their time to raising their children. They're instead abhorred as lazy (a stereotype I will mention that only came into being when huge numbers of black people enrolled in welfare) and we're told raising human beings isn't "work."

My father was away from home working most of my life, so my mother basically raised me and my two siblings alone. And it wasn't impossible to do, because he was ensuring there was always food on the table. And you know what? We're all straight A students, we all have Bachelor's degrees, and we're all fairly productive members of society (I fall a bit short but there's reasons for that).

So when people raise the argument of "should someone be paid to raise kids?!" I'm just fuck yeah. I want more families to be like mine. While a two parent (or possibly more; I'm unsure how polyamorous families rank in performance) household that does not require government assistance is ideal, all too often it won't be possible. Maybe one partner was abusive and the other parent left with the kids (this is actually not that uncommon and is why the child support requirement is so vile). Maybe one partner died. Maybe there's disability or discrimination that hampers the ability of a parent to find work. Maybe the pay is so poor they still have trouble making ends meet. There's so many factors that make "lol get a job" incredibly disingenuous as social policy.

What's more, as we ramble about the importance of bootstraps, let's not forget here that inadequate nutrition impacts brain development. We're trying to pawn off the development of future citizens on parents alone, but let's be real here: the government has a vested public interest in ensuring all children grow up to be healthy, productive citizens. Guaranteeing them nutrition, equal education, and a full-time caregiver are all in line with this goal.

Policy should fit reality, not some hyperlibertarian conception of human behavior. Most people have lifestyles and situations that are not ideal in some way. Rather than be the guy who goes "everyone should exercise more" when health insurance costs come up, why don't you come up with a policy that is actually easy to implement?

I already have one for you. It's unconditional welfare, guaranteed to all citizens. And no, it won't create laziness. For most of welfare's history it was fairly unconditional, and most people left the rolls after a few years and never came back. Then, as mentioned, large numbers of black people signed up and suddenly the totally not racist white masses started rambling about "welfare queens."

[Neon Zephyr]

6 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

I have zero pity/care for single mothers with multiple children. That was their doing for the most part and/or their mistake. My own mother had me and my sisters and still worked hard to support us. Never complained, knew what she did, and did what was necessary to pay for it all. That's how life is. It's called responsibility, an argument anyone shouting the poor women card loathes to the core.

2 hours ago, Lord Basil (Ogilvie) said:

Hey Chris.

Abstinence only isn't a viable doctrine.

The conservative viewpoint falls short because while it cries crocodile tears over abortion, next to nothing is done to prevent accidental pregnancies or take care of kids who are actually born.

As someone who was raised by a single parent, I take deep personal offense to Chris's statement, and I stand by Lord Basil 100%

Plus. Like LB said. Abuse happens. There are cases of domestic abuse where a woman is pressured in some manner to become pregnant, for any number of reasons.

Again. I *was* one of those pregnancies. 

My mother didn't complain either. But when the divorce finally happened, she deserved a lot better than she got. Are you suggesting that my mother deserved to have to continuously be abused by first my father (until he finally straightened out, mostly, but by then the divorce was over a decade old) and then by the vast majority of our extended family simply because she didn't want to risk us dying from abuse and neglect, and then from our society because she dared to divorce my father and be a single mother that actually focused on caring for her child instead of her own life? She took hard, physical labor and retail jobs, until she found something stable, even though it didn't allow for much better than a barely healthy life for us.

And I'm certainly no slouch either. I studied my ass off from elementary on. I got all As in school (save gym, too focused on academics to excel much there). Participated in every form of the arts (band, drama, etc) that I could manage. Inducted into Honor Society. I graduated 2nd in my class in high school. Got accepted to my first choice college with a specialized scholarship. Made dean's list in college most of my freshman year, inducted into THAT Honor Society. Made connections with my professors and with the IT job I got on campus. It got me a connection to a pretty predominant company in my city.

And you know what happened? None of it mattered. 

Because the system isn't designed to reward those who work hard. Some do. But that's luck. 

If hard work and worth got you what you need, I would be making over twice what I do an hour. I wouldn't be severely ill and unable to even afford the tests to diagnose what's wrong with me. I wouldn't have to fight and struggle to even get a dollar raise after three years (I haven't gotten a raise since being made fulltime. After years of dedication and LITERALLY WORKING MYSELF SICK). I wouldn't be literally bedridden. I wouldn't be struggling to seek therapy for what I *do* have diagnosed (which is only part of my issues). My student loans, even after my scholarships, are demanding more than half of my payrate a month now. They are literally PUNISHING me for choosing to "work hard" (note, I am fine with paying loans, but the proportion/tuition cost amount/interest when compared to the pay I get with that degree is vile)

And I have good health insurance. And I still can't afford healthcare. 

(Pro-Life? No. Anti-Choice. Because "Pro-life" only cares about fetuses being born into human beings, and then fuck 'em.)

And yes. I have been searching for a new job. For a year. But I can't afford to just quit mine. I would be evicted and sued by my loan company within two months. And you know what my boss said when I told him that my research showed that I was worth more than my pay and that I deserved better and that I couldn't afford my (rather meager) bills on what he insisted was "lucky" pay?

He heavily implied (as to avoid HR blowback) that because I'm a woman I should prostitute myself out to pay rent.

And then hired a guy to do a very similar job as mine for nearly three times my pay. 

So no. We aren't equal. That is the whole fucking problem.

(disclaimer: I am white. I acknowledge that I likely would be paid even less if I wasn't. I also may not have been diagnosed--with what little I've gotten diagnosed--properly if I wasn't.) 

EDIT: that comic KH posted isn't just using Nazis as a generic, either. Karl Popper wrote the Paradox of Tolerance in 1945. We shouldn't have to keep learning this lesson.

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Neon Zephyr said:

As someone who was raised by a single parent, I take deep personal offense to Chris's statement, and I stand by Lord Basil 100%

Plus. Like LB said. Abuse happens. There are cases of domestic abuse where a woman is pressured in some manner to become pregnant, for any number of reasons.

Again. I *was* one of those pregnancies. 

My mother didn't complain either. But when the divorce finally happened, she deserved a lot better than she got. Are you suggesting that my mother deserved to have to continuously be abused by first my father (until he finally straightened out, mostly, but by then the divorce was over a decade old) and then by the vast majority of our extended family simply because she didn't want to risk us dying from abuse and neglect, and then from our society because she dared to divorce my father and be a single mother that actually focused on caring for her child instead of her own life? She took hard, physical labor and retail jobs, until she found something stable, even though it didn't allow for much better than a barely healthy life for us.

And I'm certainly no slouch either. I studied my ass off from elementary on. I got all As in school (save gym, too focused on academics to excel much there). Participated in every form of the arts (band, drama, etc) that I could manage. Inducted into Honor Society. I graduated 2nd in my class in high school. Got accepted to my first choice college with a specialized scholarship. Made dean's list in college most of my freshman year, inducted into THAT Honor Society. Made connections with my professors and with the IT job I got on campus. It got me a connection to a pretty predominant company in my city.

And you know what happened? None of it mattered. 

Because the system isn't designed to reward those who work hard. Some do. But that's luck. 

If hard work and worth got you what you need, I would be making over twice what I do an hour. I wouldn't be severely ill and unable to even afford the tests to diagnose what's wrong with me. I wouldn't have to fight and struggle to even get a dollar raise after three years (I haven't gotten a raise since being made fulltime. After years of dedication and LITERALLY WORKING MYSELF SICK). I wouldn't be literally bedridden. I wouldn't be struggling to seek therapy for what I *do* have diagnosed (which is only part of my issues). My student loans, even after my scholarships, are demanding more than half of my payrate a month now. They are literally PUNISHING me for choosing to "work hard" (note, I am fine with paying loans, but the proportion/tuition cost amount/interest when compared to the pay I get with that degree is vile)

And I have good health insurance. And I still can't afford healthcare. 

(Pro-Life? No. Anti-Choice. Because "Pro-life" only cares about fetuses being born into human beings, and then fuck 'em.)

And yes. I have been searching for a new job. For a year. But I can't afford to just quit mine. I would be evicted and sued by my loan company within two months. And you know what my boss said when I told him that my research showed that I was worth more than my pay and that I deserved better and that I couldn't afford my (rather meager) bills on what he insisted was "lucky" pay?

He heavily implied (as to avoid HR blowback) that because I'm a woman I should prostitute myself out to pay rent.

And then hired a guy to do a very similar job as mine for nearly three times my pay. 

So no. We aren't equal. That is the whole fucking problem.

(disclaimer: I am white. I acknowledge that I likely would be paid even less if I wasn't. I also may not have been diagnosed--with what little I've gotten diagnosed--properly if I wasn't.) 

I don't really care about who's offended. As a child raised by a single parent who raised THREE of us by herself without complaining and owning up to her responsibilities I know women are perfectly capable of doing things on their own when they work hard and don't spend their lives blaming and chasing after the man in the situation and build themselves up with their own two hands instead of running to the government crying help/save me.

Women are more capable than many think, much more.

As far as your mother and her relationship issues, that's none of my business and I have no comment to make on that. It's a shame but it happened, what matters is how she moved on after that. If it was akin to my own mother, kudos. She did the good/right thing.

If you want equality, I am going to look at women PRECISELY as I look at men and say you did the job, now pay for it.

[Neon Zephyr]

16 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

I don't really care about who's offended.

First, that's kinda part of the problem. This "fuck you, got mine" attitude.

Second. Did... did you read a word I said past the first line or two? Like, more than just skimmed?

I am a woman. I am working hard. I literally worked myself sick. I have worked three jobs at once before just to make ends meet. And I'm still in a hole. 

And when I respectfully point out what I am worth AS A PERSON IN MY FIELD regardless of my gender (never even bringing it up), I'm basically told to prostitute myself on top of my job to pay rent. Before hiring a guy to do basically the same job as me, for three times my pay.

How is that equality? How is that not sexist? 

And you still haven't responded to the coal miner bits. Do you think they don't work hard? And what about the fact that many pregnancies are due to abuse? Do those women need to "pay for it"? 

I'm happy that your mom was able to raise you and your siblings all on your own. That's great, and I'm not trying to undermine that. But, there's a lot of luck there. She had to be lucky to be in a place and time that allowed her to even land a decent job, let alone being able to raise three kids. 

And that's the problem. That's why I (and others) are upset at your post(s). You're suggesting "Oh, just work hard and things will all be good and equal and you'll get what you deserve." But that's not how it works. And it shouldn't have to come down to pure luck. Someone like me, who worked 40-60 hour weeks (and at one point was balancing full time school with two-three jobs), shouldn't be forced to work herself sick to afford rent. Someone with arguably good healthcare for an American shouldn't still be unable to diagnose why she's dying.

You're acting as if I'm saying that as a woman, I'm not as capable. That's not AT ALL what I said. I'm just as capable, and I'm working just as hard as any of the men on my team. But I'm not being treated as an equal. That needs to stop and I (and all other women) need to stop being demonized for it when we point it out.

Edited August 17, 2017 by Neon Zephyr
sentence issue

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Neon Zephyr said:

First, that's kinda part of the problem. This "fuck you, got mine" attitude.

Second. Did... did you read a word I said past the first line or two? Like, more than just skimmed?

I am a woman. I am working hard. I literally worked myself sick. I have worked three jobs at once before just to make ends meet. And I'm still in a hole. 

And when I respectfully point out what I am worth AS A PERSON IN MY FIELD regardless of my gender (never even bringing it up), I'm basically told to prostitute myself on top of my job to pay rent on top. Before hiring a guy to do basically the same job as me, for three times my pay.

How is that equality? How is that not sexist? 

And you still haven't responded to the coal miner bits. Do you think they don't work hard? And what about the fact that many pregnancies are due to abuse? Do those women need to "pay for it"? 

I'm happy that your mom was able to raise you and your siblings all on your own. That's great, and I'm not trying to undermine that. But, there's a lot of luck there. She had to be lucky to be in a place and time that allowed her to even land a decent job, let alone being able to raise three kids. 

And that's the problem. That's why I (and others) are upset at your post(s). You're suggesting "Oh, just work hard and things will all be good and equal and you'll get what you deserve." But that's not how it works. And it shouldn't have to come down to pure luck. Someone like me, who worked 40-60 hour weeks (and at one point was balancing full time school with two-three jobs), shouldn't be forced to work herself sick to afford rent. Someone with arguably good healthcare for an American shouldn't still be unable to diagnose why she's dying.

You're acting as if I'm saying that as a woman, I'm not as capable. That's not AT ALL what I said. I'm just as capable, and I'm working just as hard as any of the men on my team. But I'm not being treated as an equal. That needs to stop and I (and all other women) need to stop being demonized for it when we point it out.

I was referring to specific parts of your post relating to parental issues, not that.

However, let me make this clear.

Your issues with pay?

Get a different job. Work somewhere else. You will find better pay, the same thing any man does. If you refuse to, that's YOUR problem.

As far as my mother being lucky, no. She had hard times the same as any. Times that crushed her. Never stopped her though. Always got back up and kept moving forward. Luck was not a factor, WORK was. HARD work, not complaining and begging to be helped.

As far as pregnancies due to rape/abuse, that's part of the reason the legal system prioritizes women in our modern world as well as benefit programs, to ease the burden and essentially apologize for the man who made you have the kid. It's an apologetic system/program. It sucks that it happened, but the government offers apology programs to help.

As far as you being cut down for saying how equal/important you are...

It's not your fault, but it's the fault of people who go around heralding how special/important they are to the point businesses now say "fuck you" if you try to say it, they're sick of hearing how special/important this or that person is, they want proof through work.

If your work was spectacular and they ignored that? Then in that case I'm sorry and suggest you find other work, again, like any man in the same position.

Stop pointing out how important/special you are, start showing it, and eventually, you'll get the rewards you deserve in life.

Women aren't the only ones who work themselves sick to afford things, don't victimize yourself. That's a big factor.

[KHCast]

Ben Carson is black and doesn't acknowledge black people's struggles and even goes as far to blame them for any problems. Will smith is black and a big time actor. Some women are CEO's. Guess that undermines discrimination and means everyone can make it just as simply as they did.

im sorry, but it's hard to view your suggestions and "solutions", and "I don't care who's offended" shit as anything but an out touch privileged white straight dude that somehow can't see the problems minorities are saying and interpret it as them being lazy, victimizing, whiny, and want more on top of the "equality" already there.

[Dizcrybe]

5 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Your issues with pay?

Get a different job. Work somewhere else.

We've been over this. This isn't how job searching works. Jobs aren't like kitchen knives or headphones where you can just buy new ones if they break.

[Neon Zephyr]

4 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Your issues with pay?

Get a different job. Work somewhere else. You will find better pay, the same thing any man does. If you refuse to, that's YOUR problem.

Let me make this clear:

33 minutes ago, Neon Zephyr said:

And yes. I have been searching for a new job. For a year. But I can't afford to just quit mine. I would be evicted and sued by my loan company within two months. 

Read my posts before you try to talk down at me, please.

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Dizcrybe said:

We've been over this. This isn't how job searching works. Jobs aren't like kitchen knives or headphones where you can just buy new ones after they break.

No they aren't but they ARE out there. It depends on what you're looking for and if you're willing to go beyond specific careers.

Sometimes it takes more work to get those jobs out of your field, but jobs are available no matter what.

It just depends what you're comfortable with and what you refuse to do for the most part.

There are careers that cost a fortune and a lot of college to get, but these are few and far between for the most part which is why trade schools are becoming more popular and preferred than big colleges.

[Dizcrybe]

12 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

No they aren't but they ARE out there. It depends on what you're looking for and if you're willing to go beyond specific careers.

Or your skills. I've found countless jobs - good-paying ones, at that - that require you to know how to drive, and since I don't, I can't apply for them. I would love to go to driving school, and get my license, but I don't have the money. I've seen jobs for chefs, but I don't know how to cook. I've seen jobs to technical repair, can't do that.

Furthermore, just because you apply for a bunch of jobs doesn't mean anyone is going to hire you. Not with hundreds of people trying to get each and every one of those jobs. If all of those employers find someone they think can do the job better the all of the other applicants - including you - tough luck.