The General 'Murican Politics Thread

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Dizcrybe said:

Or your skills. I've found countless jobs - good-paying ones, at that - that require you to know how to drive, and since I don't, I can't apply for them. I would love to go to driving school, and get my license, but I don't have the money. I've seen jobs for chefs, but I don't know how to cook. I've seen jobs to technical repair, can't do that.

Furthermore, just because you apply for a bunch of jobs doesn't mean anyone is going to hire you. Not with hundreds of people trying to get each and every one of those jobs. If all of those employers find someone they think can do the job better the all of the other applicants - including you - tough luck.

I never said it was easy, the point is you just have to keep applying, keep looking.

If you break and start pitying yourself and blaming people, then that's your problem as a weak person who had a hard time handling reality.

Nobody owes anybody an apology for having it hard in life. You owe it to yourself to keep fighting until you can make things better for yourself.

By that by a great deal or only slightly over time.

As far as you not being able to drive I... Don't really know what to tell you about that... Most folks get their permits when still in high-school as how I started out myself.

As far as you being unable to cook and unable to do repairs...

Now on that, for the former at least, I would blame your parents for failing to teach you a very key necessity in life.

In regards to making repairs... Trade schools really aren't that expensive right now. I spent a few hundred at most when I went some years back.

[KHCast]

I'm curious if you feel the people during the civil rights era were not owed a apology for the work discrimination there, and that they should have not complained since white people had struggles too, and that they were self victimizing when instead they should have just shut up about "discrimination" and just worked hard and proved themselves 

[Dizcrybe]

18 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

As far as you not being able to drive I... Don't really know what to tell you about that... Most folks get their permits when still in high-school as how I started out myself.

Even if I had my permit when I was still in high school, I would still have to learn to drive in driving school, which I couldn't afford even then. That's why it's called a learner's permit.

21 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

As far as you not being able to drive I... Don't really know what to tell you about that... Most folks get their permits when still in high-school as how I started out myself.

As far as you being unable to cook and unable to do repairs...

Now on that, for the former at least, I would blame your parents for failing to teach you a very key necessity in life.

1) *Parent.

2) Perhaps I should be more clear. I was taught how to fry chicken, cook ramen, and pop popcorn. So it's not like I have no cooking skill whatsoever, it;s just not enough to get me hired anywhere.

23 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

In regards to making repairs... Trade schools really aren't that expensive right now. I spent a few hundred at most when I went some years back.

If I can't afford to go to driving school, what makes you think I can afford trade school?

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Dizcrybe said:

1) *Parent.

2) Perhaps I should be more clear. I was taught how to fry chicken, cook ramen, and pop popcorn. So it's not like I have no cooking skill whatsoever, it;s just not enough to get me hired anywhere.

If I can't afford to go to driving school, what makes you think I can afford trade school?

I was in the same boat.

Quote

2) Perhaps I should be more clear. I was taught how to fry chicken, cook ramen, and pop popcorn. So it's not like I have no cooking skill whatsoever, it;s just not enough to get me hired anywhere.

Well... There's always KFC! Or theaters.

Quote

If I can't afford to go to driving school, what makes you think I can afford trade school?

I'm not sure of why you can't afford driving school but if you can't I recommend finding some means of putting money back.

If nothing else, use your tax money to go at the start of the year.

[KHCast]

Didn't you once say people using government assistance were lazy moochers? Could have swore you looked down on doing that 

[Tani Coyote]

1 hour ago, Chris Knopps said:

I don't really care about who's offended. As a child raised by a single parent who raised THREE of us by herself without complaining and owning up to her responsibilities I know women are perfectly capable of doing things on their own when they work hard and don't spend their lives blaming and chasing after the man in the situation and build themselves up with their own two hands instead of running to the government crying help/save me.

By your logic, racism isn't a problem in America because Obama was able to be elected President.

It's great that your mom and your family beat the odds. That's fantastic.

But please don't assume that everyone can do it.

The statistics are obvious, Chris. Whites have higher callbacks for job positions. Blacks are more likely to get steered towards lower value neighborhoods by realtors. Car dealers and banks give much better terms to white men than black men or white women. While we've made progress on views of interracial marriage and school integration, a ton of Americans are still uncomfortable with the idea of living in a neighborhood that's more than a few percentage points black. The list goes on. Mind you, these statistics hold true even if you control for factors like income, work experience, criminal record, etc.

There are very real obstacles to socioeconomic advancement, rooted in prior discrimination as well as the very mentality you're spouting. Do people beat the odds? Absolutely. But statistics tell us there are worrying trends. It's far more likely for a white person to escape poverty than a black person, for example.

Taking into consideration that factors are controlled for, I have to say quite bluntly your thesis that women and their supporters "blame" others for women's problems is, to be blunt, bullshit. Even with equal qualifications, they get hired less, promoted less, and very often will receive less pay for the same position.

1 hour ago, Chris Knopps said:

No they aren't but they ARE out there.

I think I have another point of consideration here.

Okay, let's assume that there are no barriers to employment besides personal motivation.

What about the people who literally cannot be employed because full employment would destroy the economy? Should "you must work to eat" be invoked to force people to cycle in and out of jobs, as opposed to more efficiently letting people build up experience while society takes on the burden of caring for the unemployed?

What about the people at the bottom? Because they are paid less, should they just be left out to dry?

Even if people work hard, situations will inevitably come up where there are more qualified applicants than positions needing filled, and someone either has to stay unemployed or work a lower paying job.

The concept of basic income exists for a reason. Because quality of life really shouldn't be dependent on luck of the draw. Even if we all had Ph.D.'s and a strong work ethic, someone at the end of the day has to be the one cleaning the toilets.

No matter what angle you come at the current socioeconomic framework from, it's obvious it's woefully inadequate.

[Dizcrybe]

24 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

I'm not sure of why you can't afford driving school but if you can't I recommend finding some means of putting money back.

If nothing else, use your tax money to go at the start of the year.

I can't afford driving school because even with the monthly $700 SSDI check I get, part of that money has to go to my half of the rent, my half of the bills, my cable bill, various subscription fees, and other things for the house. Once all that's paid for, I only have around $250 left, if that, and that has to go to buying food for the month.

Also, what tax money?

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Dizcrybe said:

I can't afford driving school because even with the monthly $700 SSDI check I get, part of that money has to go to my half of the rent, my half of the bills, my cable bill, various subscription fees, and other things for the house. Once all that's paid for, I only have around $250 left, if that, and that has to go to buying food for the month.

Also, what tax money?

SSDI? The disability benefits?

Ngh... I would have avoided that if possible. They put a TON of limitations on what you can and can't do when you have that benefit...

I'm not sure what to tell you with that lock/chains on you then. It's a hole you dive into for safety but then you find yourself trapped when inside.

My argument on taxes doesn't stand since you live off benefits. The only thing I can literally say is good luck.

[Dizcrybe]

5 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Ngh... I would have avoided that if possible. They put a TON of limitations on what you can and can't do when you have that benefit...

Such as?

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Dizcrybe said:

Such as?

Working for one. If i'm not mistaken you're only allowed to do so much. They take benefits away in a snap if you work so many hours and/or earn so much.

[Dizcrybe]

1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

Working for one. If i'm not mistaken you're only allowed to do so much. They take benefits away in a snap if you work so many hours and/or earn so much.

Yeah, because you don't need a monthly check if you're getting a good enough weekly/bi-weekly salary. That's the entire point of such government programs; to ensure that can you keep your house/apartment and feed yourself while you look for work, because you have no way of paying for it yourself. You don't honestly think people prefer a monthly check from the government to a weekly/bi-weekly check from an employer, do you?

[Tani Coyote]

Actually, Chris would be right that disability can be draconian and be taken away if one starts making "too much," which is actually fairly low.

I would note, however, that the reason it's draconian is precisely because of the ideology that government support makes people idle and support should be pulled away at the first opportunity. It's the same reason welfare has absurd, arbitrary requirements like a lifetime limit of 5 years and a requirement you stop receiving assistance after 2 years, on top of all its other problems that make lie harder for the poor.

There's a case of a paraplegic woman who was able to combine her disability benefits with money she got from handling envelopes from home to not only pay her bills, but hire an assistant to help her live a fairly good life. Then the government got word of it, demanded she pay back like $10,000, and planned to cut her benefits. She'd have to fire her assistant and go live in a retirement home.

She took her own life rather than be put in a home.

In short, while it makes sense to cut benefits as a person makes their own money, the current ceiling for benefits is too low. A person who starts doing well suddenly gets tossed into the wilderness. The government is more interested in identifying people as mooches than it is actually helping people become self-sufficient.

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Dizcrybe said:

Yeah, because you don't need a monthly check if you're getting a good enough weekly/bi-weekly salary. That's the entire point of such government programs; to ensure that can you keep your house/apartment and feed yourself while you look for work, because you have no way of paying for it yourself. You don't honestly think people prefer a monthly check from the government to a weekly/bi-weekly check from an employer, do you?

So...

You couldn't find work soon enough...

And you turned to SSDI instead as a supplement for work...?

You should have gone on unemployment benefits, not SSDI, that was a tangled web kind of mistake.

I'd recommend doing triple time to get off it and back in the workforce then if your condition/health that made you qualify for SSDI allows you to do so.

[Dizcrybe]

4 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

So...

You couldn't find work soon enough...

And you turned to SSDI instead as a supplement for work...?

You should have gone on unemployment benefits, not SSDI, that was a tangled web kind of mistake.

I'd recommend doing triple time to get off it and back in the workforce then if your condition/health that made you qualify for SSDI allows you to do so.

The only reason I didn't look for work sooner is because I'm in college and didn't want work to take time away from completing various assignments.

Also, aren't unemployment benefits for people that had a job and recently got fired?

[MightyRay]

1 hour ago, Chris Knopps said:

If you break and start pitying yourself and blaming people, then that's your problem as a weak person who had a hard time handling reality.

I know this will probably get ignored but it's worth a try. Mate, I have been broken, in a way I still am because when I was small, knowledge about Aspergers in the wider community was bugger all. Kids bullied me and a lot of the teachers while lovely didn't quite get why I was and in the end after years of struggling to suck it up and work hard I got rewarded with Anxiety and Depression for my efforts in high school.

I can't work unless I know an employer who is flexible who can give me a position that's casual and quiet. Otherwise I'm boned. The chemicals in my head are fine 95% of the time but that 5%? I'm a wreck. Very few employers want to hire a person who is mentally ill, no matter how hard they work, how smart they are and whether the meds work and it gets worse if you're a person of colour or in the LBGT spectrum because to be blunt we're 'crazy', unpredictable and at times broken.

Only in the last 20 years has things progressed in mental health that people have been given a better chance to live before then oh hooboy were you screwed...the stigma that physical and mentally disabled folks faced in the 'good old days' was frightening. 

And in lots of ways we still do face lot of problems by the wider community, my dad for example faces stigma from some of my relatives and others due to developing chronic fatigue syndrome. They either think he's lazy or he should try all this quack stuff to get better and get back to work. My dad was and still is a very hard worker but he just can't do the stuff he used to thanks to a drug backfiring on him, which then took him years to get work cover to recognise that was the case. 

And this is Australia, everyday I'm grateful I've got an income, that my parents happily let me live under their roof, that I can draw and enjoy life. But I'm not going to tell others that they just need to suck it up and they'll be fine... not after fighting two god damn years to pull myself out of a depressive spiral with a lot of help and nearly all of my god damn willpower. If my dad, my mum or I were in the U.S. we'd be screwed so hard. 

This 'fuck you, I got mine' attitude just rustles my jimmies and combine it with 'you just need work hard and ignore the haters' just really makes me a mad Mighty. People who society doesn't like will get screwed because they're LBGT/Disabled/PoC e.t.c.. They should be allowed to discuss, complain or offer solutions to help improve their lives.  

[Tani Coyote]

6 minutes ago, Dizcrybe said:

Also, aren't unemployment benefits for people that had a job and recently got fired?

Yep.

The government charges you compulsory insurance as part of payroll taxes out of each paycheck you earn.

You can only collect if you're fired for no fault of your own, on top of that.

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Lord Basil (Ogilvie) said:

Yep.

The government charges you compulsory insurance as part of payroll taxes out of each paycheck you earn.

You can only collect if you're fired for no fault of your own, on top of that.

I work at K-Mart and given the condition of the company I might be one of the next poor saps on unemployment for a bit.

The town where I live is booming as of late so work is a non-issue for the most part.

Experience is a big factor that will help as well.

[Dizcrybe]

4 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Experience is a big factor that will help as well.

That's the other big roadblock; most employers are looking for people with prior experience, and won't hire anyone unless they have it... in turn, making it incredibly hard to get experience because no one will hire you if you don't have experience.

The only experience I really have is with data entry through an internship program my high school had, and sandwich-making for Meals on Wheels, which, again, I only volunteered for because I needed to for school. My school may have sucked in a lot of ways, but had I gone somewhere else, I likely would not have even that.

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Dizcrybe said:

That's the other big roadblock; most employers are looking for people with prior experience, and won't hire anyone unless they have it... in turn, making it incredibly hard to get experience because no one will hire you if you don't have experience.

The only experience I really have is with data entry through an internship program my high school had, and sandwich-making for Meals on Wheels, which, again, I only volunteered for because I needed to for school. My school may have sucked in a lot of ways, but had I gone somewhere else, I likely would not have even that.

If nothing else, start at Mc. Donalds then and work your way along to other jobs.

You have experience for things it sounds like, it's a matter of you giving in to doing jobs you might not like for a while.

Though again, reality.

[Dizcrybe]

And I've applied for some of these jobs, and never heard back. That's also reality.

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Dizcrybe said:

And I've applied for some of these jobs, and never heard back. That's also reality.

Okay, you've applied...

Did you call them several times?

Did you go in and talk to management several times?

Did you REALLY PUSH how much you wanted the job by being a frequent face/voice?

Or did you apply, call/go in once or twice, and call it quits?

[Dizcrybe]

Is being an annoying pest a job search tactic now?

[Chris Knopps]

20 minutes ago, Dizcrybe said:

Is being an annoying pest a job search tactic now?

So you did the later I'm assuming...

That was your mistake then, if again, ASSUMING that I'm correct.

You have to call in and, most importantly, meet the management face to face.

Firm handshake, eye contact, good stance, dressed well, etc.

Otherwise if you're unemployed after "trying" then I can definitely see why.

[Dizcrybe]

I've mostly been applying online. Even if I did call, they'd probably just tell me to wait until someone called me back (which still doesn't guarantee they will). If they do get back to me, they give me a phone interview, and once that's done, they say they'll call me back if I'm picked for an in-person interview.

Calling in and trying to meet the management seems like step-skipping to me.

[Remy]

4 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

So you did the later I'm assuming...

That was your mistake then, if again, ASSUMING that I'm correct.

You have to call in and, most importantly, meet the management face to face.

Firm handshake, eye contact, good stance, dressed well, etc.

Otherwise if you're unemployed after "trying" then I can definitely see why.

This is all bullshit

4 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

Okay, you've applied...

Did you call them several times?

Did you go in and talk to management several times?

Did you REALLY PUSH how much you wanted the job by being a frequent face/voice?

Or did you apply, call/go in once or twice, and call it quits?

This too.