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The General 'Murican Politics Thread


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I just hope the Democrats manage to reach 49, 50, or 51 seats in the Senate by next year (fingers crossed the Democrat pulls off an upset in Alabama this year and take Sessions' seat). The more I hear about Gorsuch's behavior, the more I feel he really doesn't belong in that seat, Garlandgate aside. He's quite frankly a dick who often doesn't follow what's actually being discussed.

Dems getting an extra seat would allow a working majority with Collins and Murkowski to block the most insane nominees.

A shift right is likely impossible to avoid, but we could at least reduce how far the shift is if more Democrats get in the Senate.

 

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https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/8/16443694/trump-bob-corker-twitter-rant-tax-reform-iran-reelection

Trump and retiring GOP Senator Bob Corker of Tennessee got into a Hell of a spat over Twitter. Trump accused Corker of not running again because Trump wouldn't endorse him (a lie: Corker has previously said he thought two terms was enough) and of supporting the Iran deal (Corker was actually a huge opponent of the deal, but he has since changed his position to think it's reckless to just tear it up now that it's in effect).

As Trump rambled, Corker's response was short and savage.

Given Corker's status as a deficit hawk is making him a difficult vote on tax reform (he won't accept any tax plan that increases the deficit), Trump's decision to attack him seems fairly tactless. He must be banking very heavily on winning over red state Democrats if he's eager for war with the conservative wing of his Party.

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http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/09/politics/corker-world-war-iii-donald-trump-white-house/index.html

The GOP establishment pushback continues. Senator Corker has said he is concerned Trump is setting the USA on the path to World War III.

His savage comments from yesterday continued into today, saying that Trump acts like he's on the Apprentice, rather than serving as President of the United States. Likewise, he implicitly called Trump a liar, saying that he Tweets things that aren't true, and that everyone knows this.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/09/politics/environmental-protection-agency-scott-pruitt-clean-power-plan/index.html

EPA Director Scott Pruit has officially announced plans to repeal the Obama-era Clean Power Plan. Pruitt is on the record for never answering questions about possible health effects from repealing the plan, solely focusing on job growth.

For now, the Plan stays in effect, but a public commenting period will begin as legally required.

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2017/politics/state/ken-bone-undecided-voter-donald-trump/

Symbolizing polls indicating Trump's declining favorability among moderate voters, Ken Bone, a man who gained fame as an undecided voter asking questions at one of the debates, has given a long list of criticisms of Trump's policies. Given the polling, he's fairly representative of a large group of people who were ambivalent towards who won the election but now are committed to denying Trump a second term.

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The 2018 map gets a little better for Democrats.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/05/tim-murphy-abortion-scandal-office-staffers-243521

GOP Rep. Tim Murphy will be resigning from the House on October 21st over a dual scandal: one where he told a woman he had an affair with to have an abortion, and another over alleged widespread abuse within his staff department.

Murphy's seat is a fairly reliably Republican seat, having sent him back to D.C. again and again for 15 years, but now that it's an open seat, it's possible Democrats could pull off an upset in the upcoming special election slated for early next year. In the strong anti-Bush year of 2006, Murphy's district went 58-42 towards the GOP, but without his status as an incumbent and given Trump's lackluster progress in delivering promises to Pennsylvania, the seat could end up flipping. It's worth recalling that part of the Democrats' House majority in 2006 came from upsets in deep red districts.

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I bet my IQ's higher than all of yours... ner ner na ner nerrrrrrr :D

lol... poor americans... thought our government was bad but... wow...  :D

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8 minutes ago, Fijut said:

I bet my IQ's higher than all of yours... ner ner na ner nerrrrrrr :D

lol... poor americans... thought our government was bad but... wow...  :D

Yeahhhh, joke or not, this really isn't an appropriate tone to take, especially in a thread like this that has largely been civil despite the very emotional subject.

If you do something like this again, you'll be receiving a strike.

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27 minutes ago, Lord Basil (Ogilvie) said:

Yeahhhh, joke or not, this really isn't an appropriate tone to take, especially in a thread like this that has largely been civil despite the very emotional subject.

If you do something like this again, you'll be receiving a strike.

the thread is civil and so is my post? I have no idea what's wrong here but whatever... no need for threats..

and yeah you clearly didn't get the reference

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45 minutes ago, Fijut said:

the thread is civil and so is my post? I have no idea what's wrong here

The implication you are more intelligent than the other posters. Joke or not, it's just not something you should do. Especially in a topic like this.

Quote

and yeah you clearly didn't get the reference

Just because something is a reference doesn't necessarily mean it's exempt from the rules. Particularly when it's a charged topic like politics.

Consider the fact that, despite the clear left wing tilt of this thread, we don't allow comments like "Republicans are stupid."

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Umm... holy shit?

Considering news is only fake when it disagrees with him...

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/11/politics/prosecution-rests-robert-menendez-trial/index.html

The prosecution has rested its case in the trial against Senator Menendez of New Jersey.

Menendez continues to be confident he'll win the case and has not committed to resigning if he is convicted. Any sentence will likely be handed out after next month's elections, meaning he'll have every resign to avoid resigning until the new Governor (likely the Democrat) takes office.

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2 hours ago, Lord Basil (Ogilvie) said:

Umm... holy shit?

Thankfully, he can't revoke licenses, and has no power to make anyone else do so. If he, or Republicans in the House or Senate, create a committee to investigate the news media, then unless there's a lot of evidence planting-type shit going on, they're going to find most of the misleading or phony stories emanating from Fox News. Trump will immediately decry the investigators as being closet Democrats, no licences will be revoked, business as usual.

tl;dr: Trump can bitch, but he can't do shit.
 

Robert Reich, meanwhile, has been talking to a conservative friend from across the aisle...

Full text (yes, there is a bit more):

DL594lIVAAADgSw?format=jpg&name=medium

So Trump might end our global civilization with a terrifying nuclear holocaust, but the GOP isn't willing to invoke the 25th Amendment, or impeach him, to stop that, despite waking up to all the horrifying things he has said and done and getting very scared themselves, because they're worried about their electoral viability in the upcoming midterms and the next general election.

Glad to see they've got their priorities straight.

"We might all die in a couple of weeks' time, but at least we'll be able to show the few remaining pockets of surviving voters that we lowered our own taxes!"

Can't that be called criminal negligence?

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Sargon's trying to compile information on what happened on Oct. 1st.

There's a ton of details I wasn't even aware of here. This is why I just don't watch mainstream media sources anymore, because they were so interested in pursuing a narrative that they overlooked a lot of important events, such as there being multiple shootings at different hotels.

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Okay let's just Occam's Razor this:

What the fuck does the mainstream media have to gain from obscuring multiple shooters?

This is like flat Earthers and the ice wall thing. Where's the gain from hiding the truth?

Governments keep all kinds of stuff under wraps. Stuff that, surprise, actually makes sense to hide. Like JFK's advisers suggesting they conduct terrorist attacks on US soil. Or the US military conducting biological weapons tests on the US population.

If anything, multiple mass shooters would benefit the media's narrative. It indicates a concerted effort, that even if not legally terrorism, shows the common "lone wolf" narrative is bunk.

Now yes, the casinos absolutely would benefit from covering up multiple shooters because that could deter tourism. But the casinos are not the media. The media will all too happily sell the casinos' profit margins down the river for the sake of their own. That's how a market works.

On the other hand, the right wing has a huge interest in peddling the multiple shooters narrative, because it weakens the case for gun control by diluting how much damage one person can do.

"But some witnesses said there were more than one!" Look at the stories of the Titanic's sinking (or more recently, the conflicting reports on whether or not Michael Brown had his hands up) to realize how little weight we should give to witnesses in a tense moment. I wouldn't be surprised if when running for one's life, you see all kinds of crap. No disrespect to these people for what they went through, but it doesn't make them infallible.

The simplest explanation with the least assumptions and the most evidence is that one guy with a ton of weapons had the perfect vantage point to massacre and maim countless people.

I'm not arguing the mainstream media are saints, either. They cause so much damage to left wing causes with their sensationalism. But the idea they wouldn't pounce on a story of there being multiple shooters is laughable.

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18 hours ago, Patticus said:

Thankfully, he can't revoke licenses, and has no power to make anyone else do so. If he, or Republicans in the House or Senate, create a committee to investigate the news media, then unless there's a lot of evidence planting-type shit going on, they're going to find most of the misleading or phony stories emanating from Fox News. Trump will immediately decry the investigators as being closet Democrats, no licences will be revoked, business as usual.

tl;dr: Trump can bitch, but he can't do shit.
 

Robert Reich, meanwhile, has been talking to a conservative friend from across the aisle...

Full text (yes, there is a bit more):

DL594lIVAAADgSw?format=jpg&name=medium

So Trump might end our global civilization with a terrifying nuclear holocaust, but the GOP isn't willing to invoke the 25th Amendment, or impeach him, to stop that, despite waking up to all the horrifying things he has said and done and getting very scared themselves, because they're worried about their electoral viability in the upcoming midterms and the next general election.

Glad to see they've got their priorities straight.

"We might all die in a couple of weeks' time, but at least we'll be able to show the few remaining pockets of surviving voters that we lowered our own taxes!"

Can't that be called criminal negligence?

Yeah but like, Hilary wasn't much better guys. *somethingsomethingemailskillaryetc*

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2 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

Did you just link a Shaun and Jen video?

...

Oh my god.

So instead of maybe explain why you don't give a shit about the contents of said video, or explain why it's wrong, or respond to the more detailed response to your comment by Ogi about why it's ridiculous the idea that the media wouldn't jump on a story about multiple shooters, you opt for a pointless response that adds nothing to the topic or your view?

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Just now, KHCast said:

So instead of maybe explain why you don't give a shit about the contents of said video, or explain why it's wrong, or respond to the more detailed response to your comment by Ogi about why it's ridiculous the idea that the media wouldn't jump on a story about multiple shooters, you opt for a pointless response that adds nothing to the topic or your view?

I'm not going to waste my time watching a Shaun and Jen video, and I was frankly too busy laughing to even formulate a response to Ogilvie. And that's not just because S&J are a couple of disingenuous morons, but because Shaun is incredibly boring to listen to.

4 hours ago, Lord Basil (Ogilvie) said:

Okay let's just Occam's Razor this:

What the fuck does the mainstream media have to gain from obscuring multiple shooters?

Maybe I should've elaborated what my opinion was, but I'm not going to attribute competence to the mainstream media in this case. I mean, you would think that the fact that there casualties in multiple locations would be an important thing to investigate, but the media seems to be completely uninterested in investigating this.

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26 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

Did you just link a Shaun and Jen video?

...

Oh my god.

Strangely enough, I assume most of us had the same reaction to a Sargon video being linked.

Sargon being a typical monocle-wearing "rational thinker" who thinks social justice is invalid because of radicals even though there's a wealth of evidence that social justice is pretty damned necessary. Evidence we have gone over time and time and time again in this thread.

12 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

Maybe I should've elaborated what my opinion was, but I'm not going to attribute competence to the mainstream media in this case. I mean, you would think that the fact that there casualties in multiple locations would be an important thing to investigate, but the media seems to be completely uninterested in investigating this.

What is your source?

As a Las Vegan, I can say multiple casualties in different locations on the Vegas strip means nothing in its own right. The Vegas Strip is a high crime area. Coincidence is in play here. Especially given the whole Strip likely would have been in a state of panic.

http://www.lasvegasnow.com/news/local-news/las-vegas-police-debunk-second-shooter-rumor/825886094

Here's a non-mainstream outlet quoting the Las Vegas police on lack of evidence of multiple shooters. Where's the motive to lie here?

It's like the flat Earth thing, again. There's no reason to try and cover this up, unless you're a casino owner. And again, the media has every reason to buy into a multiple shooters narrative, because that would look more like a concerted terrorist attack and spike ratings.

The "left wing bias" of the media is a myth. They routinely screw over the left. All they care about is money. This is why all of the mainstream outlets - which includes Fox - get poor scores for truthfulness.

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Just now, Lord Basil (Ogilvie) said:

Strangely enough, I assume most of us had the same reaction to a Sargon video being linked.

Sargon being a typical monocle-wearing "rational thinker" who thinks social justice is invalid because of radicals even though there's a wealth of evidence that social justice is pretty damned necessary. Evidence we have gone over time and time and time again in this thread.

What is your source?

Unless I'm missing something, I don't think I've ever debated with you on this. (Or any other time, really)The majority of other times were when the topic shifted towards gun control.

And this isn't even a topic even involving social justice, so I'm not sure why you're even feeling compelled to poison the well.

Just now, Lord Basil (Ogilvie) said:

As a Las Vegan, I can say multiple casualties on the Vegas strip means nothing in its own right. The Vegas Strip is a high crime area. Coincidence is in play here.

http://www.lasvegasnow.com/news/local-news/las-vegas-police-debunk-second-shooter-rumor/825886094

Here's a non-mainstream outlet quoting the Las Vegas police on lack of evidence of multiple shooters.

Don't you trust the police?

That's already been pretty much confirmed. We already know that there wasn't a second shooter with Paddock.

But what it sounds like here, is that there was also shots being fired at other locations. Paddock was pretty much spraying indiscriminately into the crowd, so I'm not sure how people could be injured at locations that are even behind his field of fire.

I mean, I don't know, that sounds like a connection that could possibly be explored.

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7 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

Unless I'm missing something, I don't think I've ever debated with you on this. (Or any other time, really)The majority of other times were when the topic shifted towards gun control.

Maybe not me personally, but I meant the thread as a whole when I said "we."

Quote

And this isn't even a topic even involving social justice, so I'm not sure why you're even feeling compelled to poison the well.

To establish how Sargon is hardly a bastion of credibility. He may not be alt-right but his favorite topics of choice make him a lightning rod for that demographic.

They say genetic fallacy is a myth but the more nonsense a person spews, the more strategic it is for me to assume everything else is nonsense unless proven otherwise.

Quote

But what it sounds like here, is that there was also shots being fired at other locations. Paddock was pretty much spraying indiscriminately into the crowd, so I'm not sure how people could be injured at locations that are even behind his field of fire.

What's your source?

What were the casualty counts from each of these?

The Vegas Strip being on lockdown, plus lots of panicked people, plus the fact Nevada has lenient concealed carry laws sounds like a recipe for a lot of gunfire, accidental or as a product of opportunistic crime. It's the same reason there's pretty much always going to be looting during civil unrest; the chaotic circumstances provide opportunity to bottom feeders. People loot in disaster areas. People loot when protests or riots have the police distracted. It's not unreasonable people used the chaos to commit crime.

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6 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

And this isn't even a topic even involving social justice, so I'm not sure why you're even feeling compelled to poison the well.

You're the one bashing one source for being "biased" and "spreading a agenda." Only fair we point out the same for yours.

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Just now, Lord Basil (Ogilvie) said:

Maybe not me personally, but I meant the thread as a whole when I said "we."

My bad then. Still, I don't debate often. My debate skills are exceptionally poor, so I remember the offhand cases where I actually bother.

Just now, Lord Basil (Ogilvie) said:

To establish how Sargon is hardly a bastion of credibility. He may not be alt-right but his favorite topics of choice make him a lightning rod for that demographic.

He literally tweeted gay interracial porn at various alt-right twitter accounts.

The alt-right hate him.

Seriously, go to any video he makes on the alt-right. There is inevitably a slew of alt-right butthurt about how Sargoy is shilling out to the Jews, etc. etc.

Just now, Lord Basil (Ogilvie) said:

What's your source?

What were the casualty counts from each of these?

The Vegas Strip being on lockdown, plus lots of panicked people, plus the fact Nevada has lenient concealed carry laws sounds like a recipe for a lot of gunfire, accidental or as a product of opportunistic crime.

That's hard to find, because all I can find when using Google to search for anything regarding the shooting, only brings up about how many guns the shooter had with him.

The only thing that I have to go off of are social media posts of the people who were there. :/

Trying to find anything about what happened that night is a clusterfuck, and I maintain that the mainstream media's single minded focus doesn't really help. And that's even after it being almost two whole weeks after the fact.

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6 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

He literally tweeted gay interracial porn at various alt-right twitter accounts.

Why does simply referencing gay people and posting porn of them, suddenly mean he's totally not against social justice causes? 

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On an unrelated note.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/12/politics/obamacare-subsidies/index.html

Trump finally pulled the Obamacare subsidies. Combined with his EO loosening buying insurance across state lines, we are liable to see a lot of insurance spikes for older customers and people with greater health needs.

The Problem Solvers' Caucus, however, was previously working on bipartisan legislation in the House to fund the subsidies by statute, thus eliminating Trump's power over them. Their work was derailed by Graham-Cassidy, but it's possible their hand will be forced by Trump's decision.

What's for sure, though: Obamacare premiums go up in October of each year. Historically this has served to make the Dems get hit harder each election (since every November has races) but now that the GOP controls every branch, it's likely to hit them instead. This may put the wind in the sails of Virginia Democrats in particular.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/12/politics/nra-opposes-bump-stock-bills/index.html

NRA is against the bipartisan bump stock ban that's looking to be on the horizon, freedom, blah blah.

GOP leadership and the NRA have both been trying to push the issue on regulatory agencies (namely, the ATF), feeling it would avoid the uncomfortable issue of discussing gun control in Congress.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/12/politics/donald-trump-puerto-rico-twitter/index.html

Donald "I'm not a racist" Trump continues his vendetta against Puerto Rico's people and leadership, saying that federal services can't be there forever, even as the island continues to have a cripplingly slow recovery. This is a sharp contrast to his responses in Florida and Texas, the fact there are still some federal agents in New Orleans after Katrina, and even Vice President Pence's recent comments that the federal government would be in Puerto Rico for the long haul.

Also, to top it off, he brought up the island's financial problems and blamed it on the Puerto Rican people.

You know, the same demonization narrative deployed against black people and anyone who gets shot by police.

2 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

He literally tweeted gay interracial porn at various alt-right twitter accounts.

The alt-right hate him.

Seriously, go to any video he makes on the alt-right. There is inevitably a slew of alt-right butthurt about how Sargoy is shilling out to the Jews, etc. etc.

I'm aware that he isn't solidly in the alt-right. He still ends up catering to them with the anti-SJW thing he often has going.

The alt-right's tantrum is frankly like when white people laughing their asses off at a comedian's racist jokes that target non-whites suddenly go quiet when the whites are the butt of the joke.

Rather like how lots of liberals were incredibly angry when the Daily Show made a jab at Antifa, despite attacking right wing politicians 98% of the time.

2 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

That's hard to find, because all I can find when using Google to search for anything regarding the shooting, only brings up about how many guns the shooter had with him.

The only thing that I have to go off of are social media posts of the people who were there. :/

Trying to find anything about what happened that night is a clusterfuck, and I maintain that the mainstream media's single minded focus doesn't really help. And that's even after it being almost two whole weeks after the fact.

Well yes, I wouldn't deny that. They're more interested in drama and ratings than telling the full story. Or even integrity: CNN threatened to dox a guy for making a meme for God's sake.

The fact it's just social media accounts is where the issue is. In a state of panic, people can make connections that aren't there. Or they could be lying about what they saw. Or just lying about being there in general. We live in an era of huge social media fraud that puts any claim in doubt when there's not video.

To bring back the Michael Brown case: we had videos of people supposedly at the scene reacting and saying Brown had his hands up.

The federal investigation, spearheaded by a Democratic government that would have been trying to find proof Brown was wrongly shot, ended up finding in favor of the officer and against the "hands up" claim. Tons of people were lying about what they saw, whatever their motive was.

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2 minutes ago, Lord Basil (Ogilvie) said:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/12/politics/nra-opposes-bump-stock-bills/index.html

 

NRA is against the bipartisan bump stock ban that's looking to be on the horizon, freedom, blah blah.

GOP leadership and the NRA have both been trying to push the issue on regulatory agencies (namely, the ATF), feeling it would avoid the uncomfortable issue of discussing gun control in Congress.

You mean now they're opposed to it.

https://home.nra.org/joint-statement

"The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations. "

There's a major disconnect between gun rights advocates and the NRA itself, there was a massive outcry after that statement and it looks like the NRA has reversed that statement.

In addition, the legislation itself is fucking insane. The law is targeting any device that increases the rate of fire of a semi-automatic firearm.

Tell me, how fast does a semi-automatic firearm fire?

2 minutes ago, Lord Basil (Ogilvie) said:

I'm aware that he isn't solidly in the alt-right.

He isn't alt-right in the slightest. I'm beginning to think you don't know who the alt-right even are.

2 minutes ago, Lord Basil (Ogilvie) said:

He still ends up catering to them with the anti-SJW thing he often has going.

Okay. And? Sargon also makes it pretty clear that he views both Social Justice advocates and the Alt-Right in the same light.

2 minutes ago, Lord Basil (Ogilvie) said:

Well yes, I wouldn't deny that. They're more interested in drama and ratings than telling the full story. Or even integrity: CNN threatened to dox a guy for making a meme for God's sake.

Then you understand why I hold the mainstream media in contempt. I've had for years, ever since MSNBC doctored footage of an armed protester at an Obama rally, and commented on him suggesting there were racial undertones... Completely leaving out the fact that the protestor himself was black and said absolutely nothing in regards to race.

2 minutes ago, Lord Basil (Ogilvie) said:

The fact it's just social media accounts is where the issue is. In a state of panic, people can make connections that aren't there. Or they could be lying about what they saw. Or just lying about being there in general. We live in an era of huge social media fraud that puts any claim in doubt when there's not video.

That could very well be the case. Like I said, it's a clusterfuck. It just would be nice if the media would shut up about how the guy had 12 guns with him, and would actually investigate what happened. We're well aware that an active shooter indeed had firearms with him, now either tell us something new about that (i.e., how the hell he could carry hundreds of pounds of weapons and ammunition into the 32nd floor of a hotel room completely unnoticed), or talk about something else please.

2 minutes ago, Lord Basil (Ogilvie) said:

To bring back the Michael Brown case: we had videos of people supposedly at the scene reacting and saying Brown had his hands up.

The federal investigation, spearheaded by a Democratic government that would have been trying to find proof Brown was wrongly shot, ended up finding in favor of the officer and against the "hands up" claim. Tons of people were lying about what they saw, whatever their motive was.

That's a fair point.

But there's still the matter of how police scanners seem to corroborate with what people at the Bellagio were saying that shots were being heard outside of the hotel an hour after Paddock stopped shooting.

Again, I can't find anything on this, but that sounds suspect.

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