The General 'Murican Politics Thread

[KHCast]

It's attacking your general point. That being against identify politics doesn't mean someone is right leaning. I don't see many progressives or liberals fighting to shut muslims or gays up about inequality.

Edit: Now they may not be explicitly right wing, true, but harboring views those views certainly stems likely from right wing based ideology of some sort I'm willing to garner. Certainly enables like Ogi said below, even if ones overall intention wasn't to garner a right leaning presence. But guys like Sargon or Milo I doubt just conveniently happened to aline with conservative and right leaning fanbases and supporters. Words have power, and even if you're just "making fun of identify politics" you're effectively and carelessly starting a negative dialogue against those causes and those advocating them. Like, no shit I'm not cool with people telling me not to talk about gay rights and equality because it's "identify politics" and thus not something worth talking about on that basis. It's always "let's not make this a race issue" or a "gender issue", etc. Like can you imagine if we did this during the civil rights movement? 

And if you're seriously throwing white nationalists/supremacists(while trying to argue one is not the other in any way), justify their views, and throw their, "separate but equal" view in there and say those groups are just as valid and "helpful" to society as social justice groups in the form of movements like women's rights, LGBT rights, etc, and say they're no different, then you must really be looking at them from very loose and general standpoints, vs their actual intent, goals, and ultimate benefis each ultimately would ring to society. One wishes for things to go back to the 50's and claims they're not racist for wanting that and thinks America being what America is advertised as is unnatural, and actually somehow hurts society. The other simply wishes for all groups within America to be treated equal and believes, going by historical evidence and by countries that have instilled the view, that a unified society can benefit the country in all facets, including economically. I don't at all see how ultimately progressives/social justice advocates and white "nationalists" are at all the same, when one group literally has at the root core, racist leaning ideology and a racist engame.

[Tani Coyote]

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/10/dems-gain-momentum-to-take-back-house-next-year.html

Polling forecasts have changed: there are now enough competitive races in 2018 for the Democrats to have a chance of retaking the House of Representatives.

There are 36 and 9 seats held by Republicans and Democrats, respectively, that are considered competitive. Democrats need to win 33 of these 45 races to reclaim the majority next year.

In general, Democrats need a net gain of 24 seats to retake the House. Any Democratic majority is likely going to be built from upsets in deep red seats, not just victories in competitive districts. 

It's quite possible the rest of Trump's term will really suck, because in both chambers the majority will be extremely narrow, by one or two seats.

10 hours ago, shdowhunt60 said:

I've only heard that according to polls conducted by CNN and other left wing news orginizations. Which, I'm sorry, I don't trust their results on the matter.

https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2057

Quinnipiac is regularly cited on both sides of the aisle. The overall conclusion is gun control efforts will be supported if they are narrow and specific - universal background checks and barring those with mental illness from them, namely - but a general "stricter gun control" proposal has an enormous amount of opposition.

Understandable. There's no telling what will come up if it's a general gun control discussion.

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Yeah, we call those Fudds, and we tend to hate them.

The feeling is mutual, from what I hear.

That said, the Redneck Revolt have the aesthetic of your usual rural, right wing culture (multiple guns and love for the Second Amendment and all), but they're insanely left.

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There's no grandfather clause in either of the proposed bills, making it an automatic 5-10 year prison sentence to posses one of these supposed devices.

Which is unfortunate, yes.

But I'm not exactly inclined to sink the bill because of that alone. Particularly if there's a delayed implementation (as there pretty much always is) that gives people the chance to get rid of them.

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You said it yourself, the bill has bipartisan support. We tend to lose when that happens.

Is this just an anti-establishment talking point or do you have real evidence for this?

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They're white nationalists, actually. I know it skirts the line, but it's an important distinction to make.

White nationalism is effectively supremacist even if it doesn't explicitly discuss inferiority.

Separate institutions for white people is supremacy given a more palatable taste. 

This was the whole point of Brown v. Board. "Separate but equal" is a myth. Because society at large represents white interests, this is why whites cannot have their own institutions like non-whites can. Society as a whole is our institution.

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Also, the Kekistan thing? It's all to make fun of identity politics in general. That includes the alt-right. Why do you keep misconstruing the things the alt-right hate, as being alt-right?

I'm not talking Kekistan. That's just one derivative.

I'm talking about how Pepe has become a tool of alt-right causes. Whether as a "joke" or as serious.

There are people in the alt-right camp who are just fucking around and love the idea of upsetting people. Then there are legitimate white supremacists. Or 14ers. Or whatever you want to call them.

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The only reason you could think that, is if you think that someone who is opposed to Social Justice is automatically alt-right.

Or because I realize political factions can enable each other even if they're not necessarily the same.

Moderates don't lean strongly either way, but they are ultimately enablers of one side or the other when push comes to shove.

So Sargon can attack the far left and far right all he wants, but as a whole he is seen as being a right wing enabler. He can be as much of a moderate as he wants, but it's increasingly obvious where he's getting a lot of his audience from.

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Are you telling me that your worldview lacks so much nuance, and runs off of such extreme absolutes, that the only way to reconcile it is to create a paradox where someone is the exact opposite of who they are?

Cognitive dissonance is a thing.

Caitlyn Jenner flaunts her transgender identity like a badge but she would harm the transgender community with her political platform.

I can call her objectively transphobic accordingly.

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They reject multiculturalism, sure, but isn't that just part of a brand of their own political  correctness? It's all about controlling what people do, how they interact, and how they share ideas. Just to different ends, one believes enforcing diversity, while the other segregates society. Neither are conducive to creating human interactions that are natural and organic.

Hence, what Progressives believe is basically the same shit as the Alt-Right. Just with different window dressing.

Erm... maybe?

At the heart of the discussion is historical privilege that has accrued over the course of centuries. Privilege that is pretty well documented by this point.

One believes in the dignity of all human beings and thus believes we must take steps to address compounded stratification. The other side does not, whether it's in the form of explicit, overt racism or simply denying that there's any stratification at all on the basis of gems like "we had a black President so obviously racism isn't a problem."

It may be the "same" in terms of enforcement, but that's like saying the Axis and Allies were the same because they were both firing guns at each other. Your end goal is what's important.

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Go take a look at what the alt-right believe in, and a lot of what they support. They believe in universal healthcare, they reject capitalism, I've even seen Richard Spencer advocate for censorship. They advocate for a lot of the policies that the left does, the difference is they believe that these things can only be achieved in a white-ethnostate.

Which the Nazis believed in as well. There's a reason the expression "socialism of the master race" has sometimes been used to describe their economic policies.

Of course, the Nazis quickly embraced capitalism once they were actually in power.

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I happen to quite like a few liberals, and a broad range of people across from ideologies.

I'd like to like you too.

I meant ideologically rather than as people. I dislike liberalism but I still ally with liberals out of convenience.

I must agree the mass blocking and shunning in the wake of the 2016 race on the basis of political differences seemed counter-intuitive, though.

It probably doesn't help it seems the Christian value of compassion for one's enemies has been lost on our culture as a whole.

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Still, what none of you have been able to prove is what Sargon would gain from being dishonest.

It's entirely possible he doesn't do it intentionally.

The same way Pepe's creator never intended for his content to be misused so horribly.

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That's a lot of heavy, heavy, suitcases. You're talking about 100lbs just from the rifles alone.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he just tipped the bellhops generously and they kept their mouths shut.

Particularly given we are a reactive species. This has never been done before. They had no real reason in the back of their mind to be suspicious.

Now, any hotel staff are likely to be extra vigilant.

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Mmm. Doubt that. You think taking firearms into a Las Vegas hotel is unusual? Vegas has quite the shooting industry from what I understand.

It is, but now you're probably going to end up being catalogued by the front desk.

One or two guns, particularly small arms? That's fairly normal.

Dozens? Hmm, I have reason to be suspicious if you can't produce some vendor license.

No different than how banks overlook most transactions, but once you reach a certain point, they happily report it to the IRS.

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That technology is nowhere near remotely viable to making functional firearms. Certain not for anything more powerful than .22lr.

The SAAMI spec for .223 Remington states a maximum pressure of 55,000 PSI. There is absolutely no polymer, printed or otherwise, that would withstand that kind of pressure.

I encourage you to do some research into 3D printed firearms, I promise the technology is nowhere near as scary as the media makes it out to be.

My understanding was any functional plastic firearm would only be able to fire off one bullet before it broke, and that over time they might overcome this limitation.

Though on further research, yes, it's extremely unlikely they'd ever be used in a mass shooting context because of the many limitations involved.

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I suppose the waiting game at this point is.

My money's on the story disappearing forever, personally. Some mainstream outlet, left or right, will usually grab a hanging thread and pull.

There remains the issue of what motive there would be to cover it up. It sounds like the perfect story.

[KHCast]

So Trump's gonna be speaking at a anti-LGBT rally, and that's fucked up. Seriously, the hell is wrong with this administration? I mean it's no secret the guy has pushed and supported policies that would harm the community like FADA, and banned trans people from the military, so this I guess shouldn't surprise me, but still, Jesus. I'm wondering if Pence will be there as well.

[8ther]

4 hours ago, KHCast said:

So Trump's gonna be speaking at a anti-LGBT rally, and that's fucked up. Seriously, the hell is wrong with this administration? I mean it's no secret the guy has pushed and supported policies that would harm the community like FADA, and banned trans people from the military, so this I guess shouldn't surprise me, but still, Jesus. I'm wondering if Pence will be there as well.

Source?

[KHCast]

1 hour ago, CD Sanic said:

Source?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-anti-lgbt-address-hate-group-summit-meeting-first-president-us-homphobia-a7997401.html

[8ther]

I wonder what all those "Trump isn't a homophobe" people would say about this?

[KHCast]

@CD SanicI mean there are people defending him as being not racist despite everything we've seen. I'm sure moderates, conservatives, etc will argue he's not being homophobic at all

[Tani Coyote]

"It's just a difference of opinion, guys" - people who don't feel the full force of the marginalization that results from "religious liberty."

Here's hoping Justice Kennedy ends up gutting religious liberty in the Supreme Court next year.

As for the Value Voters Summit, the right is already attacking its designation as a hate group by the SPLC on the basis the SPLC is itself a hate group. I'm not joking. It has turned into the usual "the world hates Christians/conservatives/white people" angle, most likely on the basis most of the hate groups the SPLC lists are anti-LGBT and anti-POC. Which, surprise surprise, of course the SPLC has more radical Christians or white supremacist organizations, because there are a lot more white and Christian people in America. The SPLC also lists anti-white hate groups like the Nation of Islam and the Black Panthers. The SPLC also lists hate groups that target Christians, although humorously these hate groups are usually other denominations of Christianity.

What's most amusing in all this is the Pentagon dropping the SPLC in its training materials is cited as proof of the SPLC's lack of credibility. It's almost like a complete douchebag is commander-in-chief and so is directing and enabling the worst elements of the military. Trump's government has created a self-fulfilling prophecy where it's increasingly difficult to trust the federal government, because he keeps doing everything he can to put unqualified people in power at every level of it.

Though what's most amusing is the conservative victim card (still amused at the idea of a "liberal takeover" and "marginalized conservatives" when the GOP controls practically every damned body of government in this country). Surprise surprise, given the status quo is awful for a lot of groups, a lot of hate groups are going to technically be conservative, because conservatives support the status quo or return to an idealized past (which is even worse).

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/15/politics/kevin-de-len-california-senate/index.html

Rev up your Limit Breaker x Survivor, guys, because Kevin de Leon, the President Pro Tempore of the California Senate, will be challenging Dianne Feinstein for the Democratic nomination for California's Senate seat next year. De Leon has more consistently backed progressive causes, and while Feinstein has more money and name recognition, she also has falling approval and support for her re-election, with many thinking it's high time the oldest US Senator finally retire.

Establishment Democrats are of course throwing a fit, feeling this detracts from Democrats focusing on California's competitive House seats next year.

You know, because the Tea Party was totally weakened by the many primary fights they waged, costing them the general election... oh wait.

Odds are Democrats have the momentum, enthusiasm, and resources to both toss out incumbents in safe seats who aren't progressive enough, as well as field moderates who can take competitive seats.

De Leon is also only 50 years old, and in an era where Democrats are increasingly upper 60s and lower 70s, his victory would be a huge boon to Democratic leadership going forward.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/15/politics/ip-bannon-trump-relationship/index.html

More reports on the growing civil war within the GOP. Steve Bannon is increasingly deifying Trump, saying things that are at odds with what Trump is actually doing.

We first saw this in the Alabama primary, where Bannon was backing Roy Moore to help Trump, even though Trump supported establishment candidate Luther Strange.

Meanwhile, at this rally, Bannon insisted Trump is close to moving the US embassy in Israel to Jerusalem and declaring the Muslim Brotherhood a terrorist organization, but administration officials have said both of these claims are false. Trump the man and Trump the idol are becoming separated, with Bannon pushing his own agenda and ascribing it to Trump, regardless of whether or not Trump is supportive.

2018 will be an interesting primary season.

[Tani Coyote]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/10/nyregion/new-jersey-governor-race-murphy-guadagno.html

Reports from the NJ Governor race that will be decided three weeks from now, widely considered a shoe-in for the Democrats.

The Republican candidate played the populist card repeatedly, trying to attack the Democrat for his connection to the financial sector (even though she's the one proposing tax breaks which will no doubt accrue towards the wealthiest). When Phil Murphy, the Democrat, argued in favor of sanctuary policies for undocumented people, she banked on the typical response: crimes committed by undocumented people. Murphy didn't hold back in saying she's just like Trump in her argument choices.

http://www.npr.org/2017/10/15/557917840/vice-presidents-enter-fray-in-final-weeks-f-virginias-governor-race

Pence and Biden are both in Virginia making stops on behalf of their Party's picks for Virginia Governor.

Pence keeps trying the disaffected Democrat card, even though it seems the disaffected Democrats who backed Trump are largely displeased with his performance. It remains to be seen if they'll buy his lies like they bought Trump's.

Biden emphasized that in the age of Trump, state government is more important than ever.

Barack Obama will be attending rallies next week for the Democrats in the state; it remains to be seen what his comments are. I highly expect he'll emphasize that if the Democrats win big, they'll be in a position to expand Medicaid in the state. Obama's appearance is also seen as potentially helping turn out black and young voters for the Democrats; black voter turnout dropped in 2016, and Democrats are moving to reverse the trend.

https://lance.house.gov/newsroom/press-releases/lance-statement-on-obamacare-cost-sharing-reduction-program

Conservatives like Representative Leonard Lance of New Jersey are pushing for Congress to pass the bipartisan healthcare fix the Problem Solvers Caucus came up with: it would provide funding for Obamacare subsidies by statute and thus bypass Trump's recent executive order gutting Obamacare.

Like Paul Ryan with DACA and the DREAM Act, it's semantics: he was against Obama paying for the subsidies by executive order, but is perfectly fine with Congress providing funding for it by statute.

I'm inclined to believe this is an argument to please conservative constituents while realizing it'd be a bad idea to go back, personally. Had Obama proposed these as legislation, I have no doubt Ryan, Lance, etc. would have shot them down for different reasons.

[KHCast]

On 10/15/2017 at 9:21 AM, CD Sanic said:

I wonder what all those "Trump isn't a homophobe" people would say about this?

The guy as we've learned today can make gay jokes, and still get ignorant people defending him as not being homophobic or harmful to the community so guess that seals the deal. 

-can go to gay hating rallies 

-make jokes about hanging gays 

-can support and back politicians that have homophobic anti-LGBT views

-can back policies that wouldn't help marginalized groups

-can ban trans from the military 

and the guy totally isn't in the slightest against the community. Seriously every time something against the community pops up, there's a group going "it's not a big deal", "people are looking into this", etc

[Dizcrybe]

Denial is a powerful thing.

[Tani Coyote]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/17/politics/travel-ban-3-0-blocked/index.html

Trump's revised travel ban has been blocked by a Hawaii court 3-0 a day before it was going to go into effect.

This is going to be a recurring pattern.

I expect he'll do his usual routine of ranting about the judge's illegitimacy, because he's a child and wants to "drain the swamp" by de-legitimizing the government. The media - when it disagrees with him - is fake. Judges - who don't agree with him - aren't credible. Elections results - when they don't support him and his people - are fraudulent. Experts are all in on a deep state/liberal agenda, and only the deliverer of truth and justice, Donald J. Trump, is to be trusted.

I'm terrified about the 2020 election. If he loses, mark my words, he'll say the results are fake, and millions of people will take it hook, line, and sinker. He may end up prompting a second Civil War, given how armed to the teeth a lot of his backers are. The people "monitoring" the polls for fraudulent votes last election will be the least of our worries when he convinces a gigantic chunk of Americans that any election that doesn't put a far right wingnut in power isn't valid.

And he doesn't care about the long-term damage he's causing. It's all about ego.

Fortunately, I can only assume that when the history books are written decades from now, he'll be remembered as one of the worst Presidents in American history. Let's remember: he only sits in that chair because he happened to run against one of the most disliked candidates in American history. Odds are any other Democrat would have crushed him.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/17/politics/health-care-csr-payments-deal-reached/index.html

Meanwhile, a bipartisan deal on healthcare is moving forward. The compromise deal will replace most of the funding for subsidies Trump cut, while also making it easier for states to gain waivers for usage of federal funds and allowing everyone (rather than just people under 30) to enroll in "copper plans," which have lower premiums but higher deductibles.

This is a huge win for Democrats, as originally Republicans were pushing for allowing states to sell cheaper plans that covered less. That would have destabilized the market, as healthier people would no doubt have flooded to the lower cost plans, hiking costs for everyone who didn't. The new proposal will give extra choice, while still maintaining everyone in a single insurance pool with all the regulations of Obamacare.

Trump has given his approval of the deal, though he thinks it's a short-term solution until block grants to the states can be approved.

Block grants being the foundation Graham-Cassidy was built on, and why it fell apart.

[KHCast]

I mean can he really still legit use that "drain the swamp" mantra now when he's clearly added to the swamp?

Also as we've learned with when Trumps Alabama candidate wasn't picked, his market doesn't need Trump in order for them do do amazingly ridiculous things now. They can push for shitty policies and people all on their own now. Trump already let the dog with rabbies off its leash. 

[Tani Coyote]

Basically yes. Trump the idol is larger than Trump the man. As a capitalist realtor he is the epitome of the establishment.

But he is doing a fine anti-establishment job, working to tear down media and state credibility for a generation.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/17/politics/pruitt-epa-science-adviser-cuts/index.html

Annnnd our government's scientific credibility takes another hit.

EPA advisers who are receiving federal grant money will be stripped of their positions on the basis that federal money keeps them from being objective. Only wealthy scientists are capable of being objective.

It'd be nice if we could get rid of the idea that public sector or private sector are separate, distinct entities with better or less worth than the other. A multibillionaire CEO is not that different from a bureaucrat handling billions of dollars. In both cases, they have perverse incentives to pursue their interests: the CEO has reason to fight taxes and regulations, while the bureaucrat has an incentive to keep the bureaucracy well-funded and busy to the point of waste. At the end of the day, they're both power brokers who may not put efficiency at the top of their priorities.

Scientists are going to have perverse incentives to please whoever their donors are, and if they're self-funded, they'll have a perverse incentive to align their findings with whatever their interests are. A person requires serious integrity to find that pollution worsens things if they derive their wealth from that polluting industry.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/17/politics/alabama-poll-roy-moore-doug-jones-tied/index.html

The Alabama Senate race has tightened. Democrat Doug Jones has closed the gap between himself and anti-establishment Republican Roy Moore, with both now polling at 42%. The polls originally had Moore leading Jones 43 to 40.

It was the GOP establishment's concern that a radical like Moore could result in people supporting a Democrat like Jones.

What's more, if Democrats gain ground in Alabama, it could result in a domino effect and help rebuild the Party's appeal across the South.

[Tani Coyote]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/18/politics/health-care-deal-stalled-out/index.html

The bipartisan healthcare deal has been sunk now that Trump has backpedaled and is opposing the measure that would have restored the Obamacare subsidies.

It's the GOP's funeral. During Obama's term, the regular premium increases crippled Democrats at the polls. Now it is the Republicans that will be to blame.

"But the Democrats passed Obamacare!" And yet, with the GOP controlling every branch of government, it is unable to fix it, replace it, repeal it, whatever. They can't blame Obama. This is on them.

And hopefully it means they get to suffer electorally.

Speaking of which:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/18/politics/senate-2018-alabama-tennessee/index.html

Democrats' 2018 nightmare is starting to dissipate. 25 Democratic seats, 10 of them in states Trump won last year, raised the possibility of Republicans gaining a coveted 60-seat majority. In short:

-Bannon's civil war against the GOP is likely to harm the GOP's general election competitiveness, in particular in Arizona. It's also having effects in Alabama, with moderate Republicans being turned off by the radical Moore.

-Former Tennessee Governor Phil Bredessen has changed his position from "no" to a "maybe" for a Senate run. Bredessen is a conservative Democrat who is enormously popular in the state.

-The GOP's recruiting efforts in North Dakota and Montana haven't been going well. The odds they'll have a strong candidate to field against the Democrats from these states are declining.

It's a longshot, but Democrats just might come out of 2018 with narrow majorities in both chambers. If they do, it's high time for the GOP to start panicking. It may not prompt removal of Trump from office, but it would certainly embolden potential primary challengers like Ryan, Kasich, and Cruz.

[Tornado]

So what are the GOP going to do following Bush's brutal call for Trump and the crux of his policies to (essentially) go fuck a cactus? I mean, know what Trump is going to do, but how are his PR yesmen going to spin it?

[SenEDDtor Missile]

11 minutes ago, Tornado said:

So what are the GOP going to do following Bush's brutal call for Trump and the crux of his policies to (essentially) go fuck a cactus? I mean, know what Trump is going to do, but how are his PR yesmen going to spin it?

Try to dig up dirt on Bush (or just make up shit) and condemn him as a traitor to their version of America?

[KHCast]

2 hours ago, Tornado said:

So what are the GOP going to do following Bush's brutal call for Trump and the crux of his policies to (essentially) go fuck a cactus? I mean, know what Trump is going to do, but how are his PR yesmen going to spin it?

Probably say he's using his freedom of expression and decredit said opinion by bringing up his past in some way

[Tani Coyote]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/19/politics/eddie-bernice-johnson-harvey-weinstein/index.html

The Democratic representative who excused Weinstein and sexual assault in general on the basis of how women dress has walked back her comments. She has excused her remarks as coming from an "old school" perspective.

I think most of us would call it something else. Like, I don't know... internalization?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/19/politics/maryland-cross-monument-unconstitutional/index.html

Hot on the heels of Confederate monuments being debated, we are now having religious monuments being taken up for consideration. A federal court has found that a WW1 memorial shaped like a cross violates the Establishment Clause on the basis it is on public land and supported by taxpayer money.

The case is going to be appealed, but already possible remedies are being discussed. They include moving the monument to private land or shaving the arms of the cross so that it becomes an obelisk.

The same arguments used to defend Confederate statues are being used to defend this monument. Judicial precedent being what it is, it's likely we'll see similar cases and rulings in the near future.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/10/17/politics/house-republicans-2018-generic-ballot/index.html

More good news for Democrats.

DecisionDesk HQ's House model now predicts a 46% chance the House will flip, up from 33% earlier this year. Democratic odds are being helped along by Trump's sagging approval, retiring Republicans, and the GOP's infighting. Among likely voters, 54% say they will vote Democrat, while 36% say Republican.

The GOP benefits from gerrymandering and voter suppression tactics, but there's reason to believe Democrats will have wind in their sails next year.

We'll have an even better idea after November 7th's many regular and special elections, and December's Senate election in Alabama.

[Tani Coyote]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/19/politics/obama-campaign-events-new-jersey-virginia/index.html

Obama has given his speech at a rally in Virginia. While he talked about Republican politicians making use of fear and divisiveness to garner votes, he did raise a point that Democrats can't entirely blame the GOP. He gave a scalding remark that too many Democratic voters don't pay attention to elections or don't bother to vote, and that just makes the situation worse.

He said the uncomfortable truth: voter suppression and gerrymandering alone can't be blamed for Democrats' lackluster performance downballot. A lot of it is the fault of Democratic voters themselves for simply not participating. We all know "my vote doesn't matter" or "I voted Green" people. Think about how much of a voting bloc they add up to.

Democrats are hopeful that Obama's presence on the campaign trail will help drive turnout in crucial elections.

[Patticus]

Nice speech, maybe it'll have an impact where it counts this time? That said, I'm not at all sure that there's anything he or anyone else can say that'll make young people vote as reliably as their forebears. This is one of the great failings of the older generations; the failure to instill the importance of participating in the democratic process in their children.

If it is a trend allowed to continue, it will open the door to America following the same path as Rome. Hopefully one term of Trumpism will prove more of a tangible kick in the ass than Obama's words ever could, keeping that door locked and bolted.

[Tani Coyote]

I just hope Democrats play it safe and only ask him to appear in states that he won. I wouldn't be surprised if campaigning in a race like Alabama would cause blowback against the Democrats and take away that narrow opportunity to steal that Senate seat.

Though Democrats in general should avoid getting too attached to the race. Doug Jones is prospering because the race is Jones vs. Moore, not Trump vs. Trump's detractors. Local conservatives become a lot more likely to turn out if they feel "the left" is attacking their home turf in carpetbagger fashion. The legacy of the special elections we saw over this year is that candidates who were able to stand on their own did better than candidates who received a ton of press and funding from out of state Democrats; it makes the "oh noes, Pelosi!!" card way too easy to play.

In short: state and local Democrats have good reason to avoid getting too attached to national Democrats, particularly when running in swing or red seats. Obama's presence in certain races could serve to prompt a rally around the flag response from the right that denies Democrats upsets. And upsets are necessary if Democrats want to have majorities next year.

[KHCast]

Yeah I'm really hoping that speech hits where it counts inside a lot of dems that wanna make a change. Riots and protests will ultimately get you nowhere and just strengthen the GOP.

[Tani Coyote]

I think the best take is those on the left talking about voter suppression in response, ignoring the context of Obama's comments: he said that Democrats turn out in good numbers in Presidential years but don't do so in other years. If they were being suppressed, it'd be weird for them to be able to show up in Presidential years but not other years.

Voter suppression is a red herring in this context and can't be blamed. Lack of participation in politics absolutely can.

Voter suppression is a problem. Gerrymandering is a problem. Of course, there's plenty of evidence for that. But that doesn't absolve large numbers of Democrats who aren't being suppressed of being guilty of inaction in the years where it counts most.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/20/politics/paul-ryan-alfred-e-smith-dinner-trump-schumer/index.html

Meanwhile, have Paul Ryan roasting both Trump and Chuck Schumer at a dinner. Some gems:

Quote

"The truth is, the press absolutely misunderstands and never records the big accomplishments of the White House. Look at all the new jobs the President has created -- just among the White House staff."

"I'm from Wisconsin. Wisconsin is a fantastic place to visit in the fall. Looking back, someone probably should have told Hillary Clinton that fact."

"Every morning, I wake up in my office and I scroll through Twitter to see which tweets I'll have to pretend I didn't see later on."

"I don't think I've seen this many New York liberals, this many Wall Street CEOs, in one room since my last visit to the White House."

[Tani Coyote]

Regain some faith in our generation. At Richard Spencer's speech, it looks like more than half the auditorium was occupied by protesters chanting "Fuck you, Spencer" while the other half was fairly empty.

Now I just hope all these people make a point to vote. Showing up to counter white supremacists may be more exciting than tapping a few boxes on a screen but the latter ultimately has the longest lasting effect.