The General 'Murican Politics Thread

[TailsTellsTales]

21 hours ago, SSF1991 said:

While I'm frustrated that Bernie lost, his actions haven't been for nothing. The Democratic party has gradually embraced the Progressive agenda that Bernie supports. The party's leadership has Progressives now. And while the party's "establishment" is still iffy on the Progressive wing, they aren't stopping it. I mean, look at the turmoil that the GOP is having right now. Now compare that to Democrats. It's like night and day.

Yes it is interesting to see them embrace his ideas instead of calling them radical.

The primary had nothing to do with her loss.

I would say it was only part of many reasons for her loss. Though I would say the media is to blame since they only talk about Trump.

Um, what? They have made their policies clear in political ads, criticism against Republican bills, and more. They're for Obamacare, for sanctuary cities, for actual tax reform that benefits middle and lower classes. They want more immigrant support. They're for gay marriage, women's rights. They believe in man-made climate change. They want better education.

Yes they have many things they are for but the question is will they become corrupt and start doing the bidding of wall street and powerful like they did under Obama? Will they give wall street a bailout again? Will they give the rich a massive tax cut again? Will they continue to be bought by wall street? Can only wait and see for now. I will say it is annoying how they say we can only have "pragmatism" and "incrementalism" for the working people and middle class but when it comes to the wealthy and wall street it becomes "urgent" and "rapid" response for them.

Anyway I made my points. 

[8ther]

Guys, today i recently got into it with some trump supporter based in Russia(haha) and she had these gems to say when i mentioned how broken the US voting system is due to the Electoral College giving us Trump..

Newsflash, US isnt a Democracy, its a Republic. If it was a full Democracy, states like California and New York would be controlling all of country with their decisions, with no other states ever mattering

US is a Republic, it has always been. Electrotal College is how Republic government systems work

Like wtf? Also i think she’s scrap hosting as this whole thing started with her saying the majority of americans supported and elected trump.

[Tani Coyote]

Republic means a country without a hereditary head of state. Republics can be democratic or undemocratic.

Democracy means the citizens have ultimate control of the government. This can manifest as citizens deciding each and every issue, or regularly electing representatives/delegates who decide on the issues on their behalf.

They're not mutually exclusive. The USA is a federal constitutional presidential democratic republic.

The Electoral College would be a case of indirect, constitutional democracy, advantaging some groups over others and having a group of elected delegates picking the President. But we'd still be a democracy, the same way ancient Athens was despite the fact it barred most residents from voting.

Also, the "California-New York dictatorship!!" thing can fuck right off, honestly. California and New York together only have 59 million people, less than one-fifth of the US population. It's a lot, yes, but they can't really control the country. Plus, there's the usual folly of right wing arguments I notice: there's an assumption that New Yorkers and Californians are a hive mind. A lot of the "leftism" of New York and California is actually neoliberalism with a touch of minority rights. Token progressivism. Both states have strong conservative minorities.

Conservative minorities that would have a lot more say - and a lot more incentive to turnout - if we had a popular vote. In the case of New York in particular, the state would probably turn purple. Look at the state's politics: Republicans control the Senate. The Conservative Party is a powerful force in the state, able to win many local elections. A popular vote would encourage conservative voters to turnout more, likely turning a lot of races into tossups.

If we had a popular vote, winner take all would get abolished. Right now, all Republicans in California and New York have their votes given to whoever the Democrats field. Under a popular vote system, the Democrats would lose those votes and would need to make them up elsewhere.

But let's be honest here: the real reason Republicans love the Electoral College is because there are more Democrats than Republicans. That's why they hate the idea of a national popular vote. Rather than change their platform to get with the times, they insist on clinging to an archaic institution while claiming it "protects" certain groups of people.

On that note. The Electoral College isn't a much better system for protecting. Under the Electoral College, it is swing states that determine the President. California, Texas, etc. get hardly any attention. We don't have a California-New York oligarchy right now, but we absolutely have a Florida-Pennsylvania-Ohio-Michigan one.

What's funny is even the GOP's been willing to get rid of the Electoral College when it wasn't to their advantage. Prior to 2012 and in the face of Obama's re-election prospects, they wanted to change states to allocate their vote by Congressional district... that is, they would gerrymander the Presidential election, because now all those GOP-biased House districts would get an electoral vote that they could use to pick the President.

Not to "both sides" it but both sides are interested in pursuing their interest when it comes to the Electoral College. Unfortunately for the GOP, the Democrats' self-interest is the more noble one, because it seeks to expand individual choice and weight in the electoral process, while the GOP seeks to stack the deck in favor of electoral minorities.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/10/25/fox-news-poll-storms-erode-trumps-ratings.html

Even Fox News' viewers have a low opinion of Trump.

What's more, the GOP's tough situation going forward is evident. While voters would give equal credit to the Democrats or GOP if healthcare gets better, twice as many voters would blame the GOP if something goes wrong.

So. How long until Fox News is declared Fake News as well, and Trump retreats to his political safe space of InfoWars and Breitbart?

[Kevin]

Well supposedly we'll know how gets the first charges in Muller's investigation consider it's been said they'd be taken into custody as early as Monday. Who does everyone think will be indicted and do you think there's a good chance that Trump will fire Muller?

[Patticus]

I'd be surprised if Flynn and Manafort aren't the ones being arrested and charged, TBH. They're the low hanging fruit of this whole sordid affair, so I expect to see them plucked first.

Others following may include Bannon, Assange and Farage. Yes, that Farage.

Awww yiss.

[Tani Coyote]

Honestly, the way things have gone, I'm expecting it to be Jared Kushner.

As the saying goes, he's the least interesting person in the whole administration and yet seems to always have crap follow him.

[-Robin-]

It's Manafort.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/us/politics/paul-manafort-indicted.html?_r=0

 

Manafort was the one who chose Mike Pence to be VP, so it's no small thing.

[Kevin]

14 minutes ago, -Robin- said:

It's Manafort.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/us/politics/paul-manafort-indicted.html?_r=0

 

Manafort was the one who chose Mike Pence to be VP, so it's no small thing.

And down goes Manafort!

Also, word was Donald Trump Jr possibly being implicated. I have my doubts, but one of his sons being indicted would be pretty big.

[Johnny Boy]

And so it begins

[8ther]

13 minutes ago, Johnny Boy said:

And so it begins

Assuming no one gets pardoned and Trump doesn't fire Muller

[Chili Dawg]

let the bodies hit the floor

let the bodies hit the floor

[Patticus]

So, not just one indictment today, but two. It'll be interesting to find out if Gates' continued involvement with the Trump campaign long after Manafort's ousting essentially made him a conduit for Manafort to continue communicating with the campaign.

Edit: I guess news is gonna be coming in thick and fast today.

Nothing directly related to Trump, the 2016 election or Russian collusion, then. Not yet at least.

[Blacklightning]

Conspiracy against the US? Holy shit, that's huge. Can't wait to see how that unfolds.

18 minutes ago, CD Sanic said:

Assuming no one gets pardoned and Trump doesn't fire Muller

Maybe my memory's a little fuzzy on this, but wasn't the special counsel formed specifically because Trump couldn't fire him under those grounds? Or am I missing something else?

[Patticus]

Trump can pressure the Deputy AG, Rosenstein, through Jeff Sessions, to fire him, since he was the one who hired him to begin with, but he can't fire him directly. He would look so guilty if he took that route though, because that's pretty much what Nixon did, and we all know how that ended.

[Candescence]

Wait, there's more.

George Papadopoulos, foreign policy advisor for Trump campaign, secretly pleaded guilty months ago and has been cooperating with the FBI since then. Someone already flipped.

The documents coming out of this whole thing have been stunning, what we know now makes it fairly clear that there was undeniable collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians. If Mueller is releasing that sort of material, I can't imagine what dirt he still has under wraps.

Investigations like this normally take a year at least to bear fruit. It's only been months since Mueller's investigation started and they're already making arrests. That speaks volumes about how easy it's been for him to draw up at least one damning case.

Edit: Dear God, these people were using Facebook Messenger to collude.The staggering incompetence is amazing.

[KHCast]

Well this morning sure did start off great. This is a critical blow to the Trump administration and GOP. Interested to see where we go from here!

[SenEDDtor Missile]

So, The Orange Emperor and his bad of freaks’ house of cards is beginning to crumble...

excellent...

[Tani Coyote]

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/30/trumps-transgender-troop-ban-court-rejects-244324

In other news, the transgender military service ban has been ruled unconstitutional by a Circuit Court.

Eat shit, Mr. President.

4 hours ago, CD Sanic said:

Assuming no one gets pardoned

Trump can only pardon federal offenses. If a state court files charges, Trump is SOL barring a Governor who would pardon the person.

The New York Attorney General in particular has been cooperating with Mueller, so I fully expect Mueller will use New York's courts over the federal courts. Let's see Trump's smile rapidly vanish from his face.

[Johnny Boy]

Ah, President Cheetos day is going from bad to worse. And I am fucking living for it.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

I'm looking forward to the Trump Administration and the GOP becoming known as the biggliest (yes biggliest) traitors in modern American history.

[Patticus]

4 hours ago, Lord Basil (Ogilvie) said:

Eat shit, Mr. President.

He must be so tired of all the winning by now. I know I am!

Holy shitballs, Mueller's not fucking around, is he? Not that he was ever known to.

I could be mistaken here, but this could be huge, if he did indeed wear a wire. Other indictments could very well follow because of this alone, if that's what he did.

One more Tweet:

To be a fly on the wall when he got that news...

[Chili Dawg]

I expect whichever staffer had the job of keeping his phone away will be mauled to death shortly before a good old fashioned incomprehensible 3 AM twitter meltdown.

[Johnny Boy]

I bet Hillary is at home laughing her ass off right now.

[SSF1991]

1 hour ago, Johnny Boy said:

I bet Hillary is at home laughing her ass off right now.

I don't know about her, but I know I am.

[Tani Coyote]

Man, I'm really hoping this will have a Comey effect and cause Republicans to lose big time next Tuesday.

Even if Trump himself is guilty of nothing, it indicates a large part of the campaign was compromised. Propping up resistance - that is, Democratic - figures nationwide is the best counter in lieu of him being removed from office.

Especially considering Democrats who control Virginia's Governorship and lower House will be in an excellent position to redistrict and put in Democratic Representatives who won't screw around on this issue.