The General 'Murican Politics Thread

[Candescence]

I'm pretty sure basically banning abortion by legally setting the start of life at conception and allowing drilling in Alaska alone should disqualify the bill from reconciliation, so I hope they junk those bits first.

[SSF1991]

I was wondering where @Lord Lavender (Ogilvie) was, you've been quiet in this thread for the past 2 weeks. XD

Question: if the bill does end up on Trump's desk and Democrats were to (somehow) reclaim a majority in both chambers after the mid-terms, can they repeal the tax bill? Also, how long would it be before the tax bill's impacts are felt?

[-Robin-]

 

He just admitted to firing Flynn for lying and subsequently asking Comey to let the investigation go afterward, which is essentially obstruction. Unbelievable.

[SSF1991]

14 hours ago, TailsTellsTales said:

When the Bush tax cuts were about to expire, Obama extended them for 2 more years even though all he had to do was nothing.

I see you completely ignored what I said about this. So I'm going to post it again.

Quote

If you don’t remember the Obama tax cuts, there’s a reason. Obama didn’t propose massive tax cuts, and sign his own plan into law. What he did was sign a law that made permanent tax cuts his predecessor, George W. Bush, had put into place. So in a way, Obama merely ratified tax cuts enacted by another president, largely because he had no choice — most consumers would have endured major tax increases had Obama refused to extend the cuts. But the law Obama signed offers an important lesson that’s relevant today, with Congress poised once again to cut taxes and push the national debt higher.

So, no. He couldn't do nothing. Also, they weren't "extended for 2 more years". They were made permanent. So then, why are you lying?

Quote

By the way you mentioned this.

I'm fully aware I mentioned this. I have even been waiting for your response, and it was exactly what I expected it would be. Funny, though, how you see that, but ignore what I said about Obama. Still waiting for a response to that.

Quote

I go after them because--

Okay, stop right there. Because it's not about you going after them that is the problem. The problem is that it is all you do. In just this post alone, you repeated a lie I addressed (and you ignored), talked about Republicans for 2 sentences (the most I've even seen from you in this thread), then immediately went into another tirade about Democrats again. There's also the matter of how you do this. For example lying about Obama's tax extention. Then you bring up stuff like this:

Quote

Remember when Hillary was only in favor of $12 minimum wage instead of $15?

Yes. However, here is why bringing up things like this is pointless. This was a year ago. And she's not president. And Democrats aren't even in power. And people did criticize her for that, including me, but only at the time because this was actually relevant then and not a random talking point brought up. We haven't forgotten, but we've moved on. It's one thing to be critical, it's another to dwell on the past and not focus on the present.

Quote

Yeah that is what I am talking about. This corruption that they become. The party of URGENT RAPID CHANGE for when the wealthy and big corruptions need help, but only PRAGMATIC INCREMENTAL CHANGE for everybody else. That is why I bring it up.

You bring it up because "they're corrupt". So, stating the obvious, then. I even said in my previous post that this is something Democrats have done. You're acting like nobody remembers. Hell, people have been criticizing Democrats for not standing up to Republicans more as of late. It's not like Democrats have become immune to criticism. It's that Republicans are in power, screwing people over, also being corrupt, and trying to turn the country fascist. It's not the issue at hand right now. Later, once Republicans are dealt with. But not right now. There are concerns that are much more pressing at the moment.

Quote

I don't want them given a free pass just because the other side is so horrificly bad there.

That's nice.

How about you not give Republicans a free pass either? Because your response to every single stunt Republicans pull has been "Hillary minimum wage", "Democrats rigged primaries" and "Obama 2009 tax extentions". To be honest, I dread to think what you would've done in FDR's shoes when he and Churchill had to ally with Stalin to defeat Hitler.

[TailsTellsTales]

5 hours ago, SSF1991 said:

So, no. He couldn't do nothing. Also, they weren't "extended for 2 more years". They were made permanent. So then, why are you lying?

I am not lying. Here is a link to when he extended Bush tax cuts. You are talking about what he did after the 2 year extension. Also he really didn't have to do anything. The republican side would have been blamed for raising taxes in a recession. He try to make it where only the middle class and less got the extension but instead fought his own party to extend it for wealthy too for 2 years though before making some of it permanent.

5 hours ago, SSF1991 said:

How about you not give Republicans a free pass either? Because your response to every single stunt Republicans pull has been "Hillary minimum wage", "Democrats rigged primaries" and "Obama 2009 tax extentions". To be honest, I dread to think what you would've done in FDR's shoes when he and Churchill had to ally with Stalin to defeat Hitler.

You act like them giving tax cuts to wealthy is the most shocking thing. They always do that. It's the only policy they know. I do not go after them much because it's pointless. They will never change their ways. They will always serve the rich. They will always be other things that I can not say. But at least the other side has chance to change. I get that it can be annoying though.

[Tani Coyote]

15 hours ago, Candescence said:

I'm pretty sure basically banning abortion by legally setting the start of life at conception and allowing drilling in Alaska alone should disqualify the bill from reconciliation, so I hope they junk those bits first.

The fact they haven't been already struck out means they probably never will be.

My guess is the abortion change is saving the government money on the subject of what it will subsidize, which is why it passes the "must save the government money" rule of reconciliation.

9 hours ago, SSF1991 said:

I was wondering where @Lord Lavender (Ogilvie) was, you've been quiet in this thread for the past 2 weeks. XD

Question: if the bill does end up on Trump's desk and Democrats were to (somehow) reclaim a majority in both chambers after the mid-terms, can they repeal the tax bill?

No.

Even if they retake both chambers, Trump is likely to veto any proposal they put forward. Even if Democrats captured all 33 Senate seats next year, they'd only have a majority of 56, short of the 67 they would need to override any veto.

This bill will stay around until the next Democrat takes office. It is statistically impossible for Democrats to do anything without Trump's approval for the remainder of the latter's term.

Quote

Also, how long would it be before the tax bill's impacts are felt?

Depends on when the provisions take effect. We could see effects as early as the upcoming Spring when taxes are due.

[SSF1991]

Quote

I am not lying. Here is a link to when he extended Bush tax cuts. You are talking about what he did after the 2 year extension. Also he really didn't have to do anything. The republican side would have been blamed for raising taxes in a recession.

Okay, I give you credit for at least finally backing up your point and addressing what I said. Thank you for doing this. I admit fault on my part.

Still, "Republicans would've been blamed"? No. The right would just blame Obama. Like they always do. And it would work, like it always does. Sure, liberals know the truth about this...but that doesn't mean a thing if the right is still making things up.

Quote

You act like them giving tax cuts to wealthy is the most shocking thing.

I have to be shocked to be angry and/or talk about it?

I'm not shocked. I'm pissed off.

Quote

They always do that. It's the only policy they know.

Doesn't matter. It's still a crappy move.

These policies kill people.

2 hours ago, TailsTellsTales said:

I do not go after them much because it's pointless. They will never change their ways. They will always serve the rich. They will always be other things that I can not say.

This kind of defeatism and enabling is why Republicans rose to power in the last 7 years in the first place.

[TailsTellsTales]

21 minutes ago, SSF1991 said:

Okay, I give you credit for at least finally backing up your point and addressing what I said. Thank you for doing this. I admit fault on my part.

I see where the confusion was. I was talking about the 2 year extension and you was talking about after the 2 year extension.

22 minutes ago, SSF1991 said:

Still, "Republicans would've been blamed"? No. The right would just blame Obama. Like they always do. And it would work, like it always does. Sure, liberals know the truth about this...but that doesn't mean a thing if the right is still making things up.

That is why they have to keep fighting it and not allow themselves to get pushed around.

13 minutes ago, SSF1991 said:

I'm not shocked. I'm pissed off.

That is understandable. I'm disappointed at how greed is the biggest sin today.

15 minutes ago, SSF1991 said:

 

14 minutes ago, SSF1991 said:

These policies kill people.

I wish you was wrong about that.

16 minutes ago, SSF1991 said:

This kind of defeatism and enabling is why Republicans rose to power in the last 7 years in the first place.

You are right but I would also say because the other side does not have much of an inspiring message except "We are not Trump." Though that could change and have nice strong message.

[SSF1991]

20 minutes ago, TailsTellsTales said:

You are right but I would also say because the other side does not have much of an inspiring message except "We are not Trump."

Being anti-Trump is all that Democrats need to inspire people right now. And it may very well work for the GOP as a whole, if they piss people off enough (and so far they're doing a good job at that). They can't ride off of the resistance forever, however. But to be fair, they don't even have potential presidential candidates yet. I think they look to making more inspiring messages during presidential elections, and it's too early for that. Right now, they're focusing on mid-terms.

[Candescence]

On a positive note, Trump has very likely incriminated himself with a single tweet.

tl;dr: Trump has potentially admitted that he knew Flynn had lied to the FBI when he tried to convince Comey to "let Flynn go". This could bolster Mueller's obstruction of justice case against him.

[Patticus]

18 hours ago, -Robin- said:

 

He just admitted to firing Flynn for lying and subsequently asking Comey to let the investigation go afterward, which is essentially obstruction. Unbelievable.

Flynn resigned, IIRC, making this "I fired him" thing another one of Trump's many lies. He resigned two full weeks after Trump had been made aware that he had lied to the FBI and VP, and only because the press (and therefore the public) had caught wind of it. And Trump still had the gall and temerity to, a while later, personally ask James Comey to wind the Flynn investigation down - with hints in a Tweet IIRC that Flynn would be coming back into the fold at a later date.

Mueller's obstruction of justice case just got a whole lot stronger.

[8ther]

I have a cousin with autism who receives a   Disability check each month, should I be worried for her if Social Security is cut?

[KHCast]

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/12/05/homophobic-republican-caught-on-camera-with-teenage-male-prostitute/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=PNFB&utm_content=ND

 

Gee, I’m starting to see a pattern here. But what could it possibly be???

but for real, this guys a homophobic piece of shit, so it’s satisfying to see him caught and trying to scramble for an excuse, and face charges. This party is pathetic 

[SSF1991]

No, the party is not pathetic.

It's a vile, disgusting, pile of hateful crap.

[KHCast]

Can someone confirm if Trump really said this...cause wow. Wtf is he ranting about this at this point?

[SenEDDtor Missile]

7 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Can someone confirm if Trump really said this...cause wow. Wtf is he ranting about this at this point?

From what I can get out of the ramblings, it sounds like he’s basically considering the internet to be a terrible thing that allows people to disagree with him, so therefore he Internet needs to be shut down or controlled so only things that boost his ego are allowed.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

A few years from now, do you think history will remember the GOP and Trump solely as traitors and fascist wannabes to the nation?

[Dizcrybe]

I'd say it depends on who you talk to. There's a not-insignificant amount of people who'll defend their actions no matter what.

[Kevin]

Regarding Trump Jerusalem move yesterday, one thing to note is that Jordan, Egypt, and Turkey not only have diplomatic ties to Israel, but are also US allies whom have criticized this move, so it's going to be interesting to see what their reaction is? Will they severe ties with Israel in response? How will they also respond when it comes to advancing US interests in that region?

[KHCast]

5 hours ago, Dizcrybe said:

I'd say it depends on who you talk to. There's a not-insignificant amount of people who'll defend their actions no matter what.

I think yesterday’s South Park episode did a good job at depicting Trump defenders and how they defend him and the gop lol

[8ther]

1 hour ago, KHCast said:

I think yesterday’s South Park episode did a good job at depicting Trump defenders and how they defend him and the gop lol

Got a clip of it?

[Dizcrybe]

Gonna second that request; I don't watch South Park so I don't know what you're referring to.

In the meantime, Bad Touch Franken has resigned. Reactions seem to be mixed among Dems.

[Patticus]

Franken was a well-liked and respected Democrat, and had a bright future ahead of him. Reactions are mixed because his resignation may put the party at a disadvantage, next year and beyond. What he did was unacceptable though, and if the party is to reclaim the moral high ground (so artfully lost by Pelosi's defense of Conyers), there can be no exceptions. We're even seeing Bill Clinton, long idolized by party and country alike, being harshly reappraised.

I hope that Trump's myriad accusers come forward again. What didn't stick to him last year may yet this, or next year, in this post-Weinsteinian era.

[KHCast]

2 hours ago, CD Sanic said:

Got a clip of it?

 

1 hour ago, Dizcrybe said:

Gonna second that request; I don't watch South Park so I don't know what you're referring to.

In the meantime, Bad Touch Franken has resigned. Reactions seem to be mixed among Dems.

http://southpark.cc.com/full-episodes/s21e10-splatty-tomato

here's the full episode 

[8ther]

31 minutes ago, KHCast said:

 

http://southpark.cc.com/full-episodes/s21e10-splatty-tomato

here's the full episode 

The site won't load for my phone, what did they say?