Why Sonic Underground Sucks (In my Opinion)

[SenEDDtor Missile]

4 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

The only other Eggman I think was equally good in this trade of manipulation was surprisingly Boom Eggman, it was dumbfounding how good he often was at manipulating even the main heroes to turn on each other, and not just in generic ways like tricking Knuckles into thinking Sonic was bad again (though granted the Boom universe being almost as dumb as he was certainly helped).

Eh, to each their own, but I didn't really care for Boom Eggman's attempts as much, because not only is the island filled with nothing but cynical self-serving jokes/jerks a good chunk of the time (and not in the sense Underground did, where there was a good mixture of cynicism and idealism from most of the characters to balance each other out), but the characters tend to be such massive morons that Boom Eggman's accomplishments tend to be rather lackluster by comparison. Difference in scale I know, since Boom Eggman controlling one island of idiots isn't the same as Underground Robotnik controlling a decent chunk of the world, but still.

1 minute ago, E-122-Psi said:

It also helped with my other aforementioned plus, that the supporting cast of Underground felt more developed and pivotal, not just helpless bystanders like in AoSth or generic soldiers against a generic evil (and often Sonic and Sally's Worf Brigade) like in SatAm. There was way more legit world building, as episodic as it often was.

Very true. For how goofy the world could be at times especially in regards to the music elements, I did like that there was a lot of the world of Underground shown; I'm a sucker for globetrotting elements.

[E-122-Psi]

Fair enough, I will admit it was perhaps one of the better developed cases of 'Friend or Idol' decision making. In almost all incarnations of the franchise, even the games, we see the greyer characters being perfectly willing to sell out and do immoral things right up until they realise they've been double crossed or they won't get what they want, and thus are forgiven far too easily most of the time. They didn't choose to take the more moral route, it just wasn't optional anymore.

While it's not like Underground doesn't do this at times, there feels a more blatant theme of the cast having to proactively choose the (sometimes harder) right route rather than selling their soul to the devil. Some won't but some will, which I suppose gives a greater more developed balance of idealism and cynicism, compared to say Boom where most of the population feel unsympathetic because they are self centred sheep whose form of taking the right path is crawling back to Sonic to save them only after their jerkassery backfires on them...until next time.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

...I find it odd that I have such intense apathy (and dislike) towards the meta Era of Sonic and Boom, yet here I am having a defense/examination of Sonic Underground of all things.

[E-122-Psi]

1 minute ago, SenEDDtor Missile said:

...I find it odd that I have such intense apathy (and dislike) towards the meta Era of Sonic and Boom, yet here I am having a defense/examination of Sonic Underground of all things.

Probably because, compared to most other interpretations, there's more for you to say about Underground that hasn't already been said a billion times over. People don't really analyse the show as depth fully, just assuming it's weird or crap with odd good or bad points from a quick peak, with any of the more intricate fans being a less vocal minority.

[RedFox99]

5 hours ago, SenEDDtor Missile said:

...I find it odd that I have such intense apathy (and dislike) towards the meta Era of Sonic and Boom, yet here I am having a defense/examination of Sonic Underground of all things.

Probably because Underground at least attempted to show more of its world than Boom and it seems most of the characters weren't too unlikable, badly designed, but still possibly more bearable than the villagers personality wise.

[Almar]

In a nutshell, Sonic Underground in many ways reflected or predated what was done with the SatAM style Sonic setting after SaTAM ended. What with Robotnik being less of a Captain Planet villain than he is an usurper who apparently needs to cooperation of nobility (and what we see of his base of operations shows it as livable enough, not a polluted hell), the more cynical world with characters like Knuckles working with Ivo to protect their homes/otherwise serve their interests either without him obviously blackmailing them or him betraying them, roboticization being saved for his major enemies.

[Sonic Warrior]

I've just watched the series for the first time...Oh wow, the mother is a coward bitch, isn't she? Why the hell can't she meet her kids?

It ended and they didn't even meet their mother. Were they expecting this thing to get a new season? They could have made one or two more episodes with the closure. They didn't even try.

[StaticMania]

That wasn't a season finale, it got canned...be nice to Sonic Underground.

[Sonic Warrior]

12 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

That wasn't a season finale, it got canned...be nice to Sonic Underground.

 

I can see why it got canned, but they could have given some closure at least. Did they really think ratings would be great for this show? lol

[Phos]

I'm just going off my memory because wow I'm super not interested in trying to find this stuff again, but I recall that Sonic Underground had been through a lot of its pre production when someone central to SatAM was brought onboard (I think it's that guy who keeps pitching garbage SatAM based Sonic movies to Sega) and they promptly went about forcing in as many SatAM elements as they could get away with even though it was explicitly not the continuation of SatAM.  

[E-122-Psi]

10 minutes ago, Phos said:

I'm just going off my memory because wow I'm super not interested in trying to find this stuff again, but I recall that Sonic Underground had been through a lot of its pre production when someone central to SatAM was brought onboard (I think it's that guy who keeps pitching garbage SatAM based Sonic movies to Sega) and they promptly went about forcing in as many SatAM elements as they could get away with even though it was explicitly not the continuation of SatAM.  

From what I recall the former SatAm member who helped with Underground was Ben Hurst, lead writer for most of the second season of SatAm who passed away a few years back, so likely not said guy.

I know in an interview he said he resented Underground being made over a SatAm revival and had to help revise a lot of sloppy early scripts. I don't know what episodes Hurst specially wrote so I don't know if his writing style was prevalent within both shows.

[Cuz]

Yeah, as I understood it Hurst is actually responsible for some of Underground’s better episodes, and while he was involved with a SatAM movie pitch at one point. You’re conflating him with the guy who dicked over the Archie comic. Story goes he also caused the pitch to fall through.

[Phos]

5 hours ago, Cuz said:

Yeah, as I understood it Hurst is actually responsible for some of Underground’s better episodes, and while he was involved with a SatAM movie pitch at one point. You’re conflating him with the guy who dicked over the Archie comic. Story goes he also caused the pitch to fall through.

Ah yeah I forgot Penders also pitched a SatAM based movie. I bring it up because Underground’s status as a non-sequel series to SatAM is so weird. I can’t imagine Underground had much going for it prior to Hurst’s inclusion, so I doubt anything of value was lost. 

[E-122-Psi]

Underground did take some concepts from SatAm and tried to iron them out. I don't know whether that was Hurst becoming more versatile in his original idea or the other writers helping flesh it out however. Maybe both.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Random thought: Bartleby was basically a prissier yet somehow better done version of Antoine from SatAM.

Let that sink in.

[Gumbit]

I can see why some fans don't like underground show , still would like to see Manic and Sonia again , but not as Sonic's siblings .

[Almar]

26 minutes ago, SenEDDtor Missile said:

Random thought: Bartleby was basically a prissier yet somehow better done version of Antoine from SatAM.

Let that sink in.

He had a neat dynamic with Robotnik, Sleet, and Dingo as their Coconuts more or less (that is, a 3rd minion who more obviously than the other two minions has his own agenda of looking out for #1). I'll say that it looks like the showrunners weren't really sure if they wanted him to be a villain or not.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

6 hours ago, SenEDDtor Missile said:

Random thought: Bartleby was basically a prissier yet somehow better done version of Antoine from SatAM.

Let that sink in.

Honestly, I never liked the cartoon version of Antoine anyway given how two dimensional and petty he was, in addition to his incompetence.

[E-122-Psi]

29 minutes ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

Honestly, I never liked the cartoon version of Antoine anyway given how two dimensional and petty he was, in addition to his incompetence.

He was passable in the earlier episodes, but then they made him more over the top incompetent and, combined with Sonic's obnoxious jock bully-level contempt towards him, he felt like a stock loser just to make Sonic look cool in a forced way. That sort of 'Euughh, look at that nerd and how uncool he is, isn't the main character so much more hip and awesome?' But hey, this was the early 90s.

I can actually credit Underground for having more developed agency and chemistries among its cast. Rather than the rather one note hierarchies within Satam's trio of 'hyper competent smart girl, arrogant powerhouse, dead weight comic relief', Underground's trio felt more rounded and got more equal limelight and foibles.