S3&K or SCD?

[Guest]

Neither S3&K or SCD, Sonic 2 is best.

[Greg the Fancat]

You know.... I'm not really sure. Both games had incredible things going for them.

Sonic CD had that nice soundtrack that at best was fun and quirky, while Sonic 3 & Knuckles made sure to be epic and fun at the same time.

Sonic CD had those most intriguing Special Stages though S3&K had the classic blue sphere where you could actually tell the depth perception.

S3&K had overall more, longer, and better levels (you can't argue this really), while Sonic CD was based mainly on the time travel gimmick that while cool wasn't as great as it's cracked up to be.

But here is where we hit the boiling point. The boss battles. Despite Sonic 3 having some awesome battles the technique to destroy your foe was quite similar. And this is where Sonic CD does some innovation. Every boss has a different attack method and battle setup. We had the pinball machine, Tidal Tempest's bubble boss, and Metal Sonic. All of those bosses were defeated in incredibly different ways that opened up new possibilites to view Sonic boss battles rather than just hitting Ivo in the head.

I'll have to go with S3&K due to its epicness and all even though you can't help but eyeball those Sonic CD bosses and see much potential.

[SuperStingray]

I don't think they're really to be compared; it's like pitting Super Mario Bros. 2 (Doki Doki version) against Super Mario Bros. 3. While they're similar in terms of physics, they're very different in structure. Where Sonic CD sacrifices speed for exploration and basic platforming, Sonic 3&K is more about bringing in various level dynamics to challenge the player. For my interests, I prefer Sonic 3&K because I find it provides an adequate amount of freedom in its level structure without affected the use of speed too direly. Plus, I prefer the music and environments.

Still, I honestly don't understand what the fuss is about Sonic 2 in particular. It's by no means a bad game; it's great, but compared to the others, I don't see the pedestal. I understand that for many it holds a position of nostalgia, but compared to Sonic's other early ventures, I don't really feel the catch. Sonic 1 had a strong variety of level structures that alternated between speed and platforming oriented builds, Sonic CD had an extremely close focus on exploration, and Sonic 3&K sort of felt like a medium between the two. But Sonic 2, aside from a few branches here or there, just felt relatively... straightforward to me, (which really became most evident to me in Sky Chase Zone.) Again, not a bad thing, but I just didn't feel as much variety. Oh, but it does lose points for those terrible bonus stages. But to each their own I suppose.

[Sean]

From what I've gathered, Sonic 2 was the game that got a lot of people into the series. Figures, considering its hype before its release.

The game would have been so much more tolerable if it had a save feature. It's a lot longer than Sonic 1 so I feel that it warrants it.

[Badnik Zero]

Well my Genesis, and probably lots of the consoles came bundled with Sonic 2. I either played it to death and it no longer impresses me, or it really is the most plain of the 16-bit series. I can think of a few things I prefer about Sonic 1 over the sequel.

And to what you guys are saying about CD's level design, that's part of the charm in it for me. It's a lot more platforming compared to the other ones, but I believe it resembles Sonic 1 in basic level structure. The game dares you to go fast and gives you lots more ways to do it, but balances that with good obstacles. The obstacles are obviously there to challenge the time traveling mechanic, but that's why there's signposts everywhere. If a game as large as S3&K were created in the Sonic CD style, that'd be my number one.

Edited August 9, 2009 by Badnikz

[Arrow]

I didn't play Sonic CD until it's re-release on the Gems collection. And Whilst there are elements I like about the game, I find it frustrating, confusing and just... samey. Every level seems exacly the same, only a different colour.

I never liked Sonic 3 much, either. There are a couple of aspects of it that are pretty neat. Sonic and Knuckles is just awful. It feels slow, eugh. It's just horrendous.

Sonic 2 is my favourite of the old school games because it's long and every level feels fresh and new. There isn't any level that I hate. Metropolis annoys me a little, but, can;t have everything. I like how easy the bosses are too, because I hate boss levels.

Edited August 9, 2009 by Arrow

[JezMM]

Overall I thought Sonic 2 was a bit more unfair simply for the lack of save feature. I mean, I can't blame it for a technical limitation of the time, but it was very depressing to get far through it and not win.

Also, Oil Ocean, Metropolis, Wing Fortress and Death Egg are horrible -horrible- zones before you've played them a good 10-20 times.

Also, Sonic CD and 3&K beat it hands down on the special stage front. At least the perspective made sense in them. I can't get more than two emeralds on Sonic 2 because of how suddenly everything appears and the low frame rate on the tunnel. And of course, what a dumbass Tails is, lol.

Edited August 9, 2009 by JezMM

[azoo]

From what I've gathered, Sonic 2 was the game that got a lot of people into the series. Figures, considering its hype before its release.

The game would have been so much more tolerable if it had a save feature. It's a lot longer than Sonic 1 so I feel that it warrants it.

Well, I got into the series via Sonic 2, but now I put it down rather often for being the "Sonic Advance 2" of the Genesis games. =P

As for the save, saving has never really bothered except for one thing; the entire game is easy-peasy until Wing Fortress. THEN it gets scary hard. 0_0

[lounge]

Also, Oil Ocean, Metropolis, Wing Fortress and Death Egg are horrible -horrible- zones before you've played them a good 10-20 times.

Yes, I agree. It's a shame too, cause the game is actually enjoyable and relaxing when you start off the first level and go thru, until I reach those zones. Oil Ocean graphics confuse me. And its setup is bad. Metropolis has bad enemy placement, and boring ground design. Wing Fortress (same as oil ocean with its graphics). I also hate the special stages.

[azoo]

Although I don't care for S2, what's so bad about they're Special Stages? They don't suck or anything, in fact, I like them more than S3K's and S1's combined (but they still can't beat SCD's =3). Their music was awesome and so was the concept of it. It was fun and I got most of the Emeralds (hence I've playing them since I was 4). So I don't get the hate. Also the point that they're not hard and they're also easily the smexiest-looking special stage of the trilogy. =P

Edited August 9, 2009 by Azukara

[Rusty Spy]

Although I don't care for S2, what's so bad about they're Special Stages? They don't suck or anything, in fact, I like them more than S3K's and S1's combined (but they still can't beat SCD's =3). Their music was awesome and so was the concept of it. It was fun and I got most of the Emeralds (hence I've playing them since I was 4). So I don't get the hate. Also the point that they're not hard and they're also easily the smexiest-looking special stage of the trilogy. =P

Because they are very trial and error based and you HAVE to memorize the layout of all of them to stand a chance.

Out of the trilogy, S3's are the only ones that don't require memorization to beat.

[Sean]

Sonic 2's Special Stages are the spawn of the devil, and it's the only Genesis game I never bothered with them in the long run.

Also, Sonic 2, the Sonic Advance 2 of the trilogy? That's a bit cruel, don't you think? ): It's still a good game, I wouldn't dare compare it to that atrocity... Plus, Sonic Advance 3 was worse.

[mikeblastdude]

Wow, when did this become a topic about Sonic 2? XD

Anyway, I think both S3&K and Sonic CD are awesome games, but I'd definitely have to go with S3&K. The levels in that game are massive, with numerous ways to go and special paths for certain characters. Also, I'd say that the S3&K soundtrack beats Sonic CD's big-time (both US and Japanese), that game has some of the best video game tunes in history. Also, it has what is probably my favorite plot of any Sonic game, and it's all told through simple non-talking cut-scenes, which is pretty cool. S3&K is my favorite of any 2D Sonic game, and my 2nd favorite video game of all time (coming really close behind the original Sonic Adventure).

But Sonic CD is still awesome and one of my favorites. Plus it gets bonus points for the awesome animated movies.

[Jix Hedgehog]

Sonic CD was slightly better, it held onto what made the series great but expanded it at the same time.

Of course Sonic 2 beats both

[azoo]

Also, Sonic 2, the Sonic Advance 2 of the trilogy? That's a bit cruel, don't you think? ): It's still a good game, I wouldn't dare compare it to that atrocity... Plus, Sonic Advance 3 was worse.

Well it was constantly straight-foward, but yes, that may have been too harsh. =P But you surely should notice that none of the Genesis games are really bad by any means, and I was just comparing it that because of how they were both hold-right-fests, not because it was a very bad game. Calling Sonic 2 the same quality as Sadv2 is absolutely wrong however. XD

Edited August 9, 2009 by Azukara

[JezMM]

To be honest, I get bored of most special stages that don't have a unique level design to them. Sonic 1, 3, and CD all have specific "stages" - just with a unique set of rules with regards to beating them.

Sonic 2 however, feels much more like a "sequence" of obstacles being generated. It's also the hardest of all the "tube" special stages.

I didn't mind Sonic 3D's and Rush's, but I think it helps that these looked a LOT more 3D than Sonic 2's did, making it easier to memorise and feel like a "stage" as mentioned in the first paragraph.

You could also see much further into the distance and the controls weren't as slippy. In Sonic 2 you NEED to know the sequence to win. There's a one second gap between the rings appearing and dissapearing most of the time, and even worse, the same applies to the bombs.

[serpx]

CD, while still a good game, was way too confusing at points- far more than a Sonic game should be. The addition of the time-traveling system, while interesting, only added to that. Let's not forget the awful soundtrack in the U.S version either. It was so off- especially in the vocal tracks(I'm looking at you Tidal Tempest).

Sonic 3 and Knuckles, however, I consider to be the pinnacle of Sonic games, and so far the perfection of the 2D Sonic formula. It had variety in the stages, characters and there was just a lot to see. I still regard it as the best Sonic game ever made, and one of the best games of all time.

I disagree. I loved the US soundtrack -- Tidal was definitely one of my favorite songs. Stardust Speedway being #1.

To answer the topic creator's question: Sonic 3 & Knuckles. It's just so action-packed, plus Hyper Sonic.

Edited August 10, 2009 by serpx

[Legendary Emerald]

Who cares? Sonic 1 tops them both.

But if I had to pick... I'd pick... uhm... ya know, I really can't choose. Both are good games, but both have their fair share of flaws, and neither of them are Sonic 1.

[SuperStingray]

Calling Sonic 2 the same quality as Sadv2 is absolutely wrong however. XD

I think that comparison was supposed to be analogous.

Although I don't care for S2, what's so bad about they're Special Stages? They don't suck or anything, in fact, I like them more than S3K's and S1's combined (but they still can't beat SCD's =3). Their music was awesome and so was the concept of it. It was fun and I got most of the Emeralds (hence I've playing them since I was 4). So I don't get the hate. Also the point that they're not hard and they're also easily the smexiest-looking special stage of the trilogy. =P

I just think they're the worst of the lot simply because the layout was so bad. For the first two or three stages, it shouldn't be too much trouble, but after that, the level twists and turns so you have to expect bombs or rings you wouldn't otherwise see coming. Plus, Mode 7 graphics are just in general dissorienting. Sonic CD and Sonic 3&K's weren't nearly as bad, but they still had a certain degree of control issues. I think the Sonic 1 stages were the best of all of the early special stages (including CD's) simply because they used a greater degree of skill from the real gameplay.

[Sean]

For the most part, I liked Sonic CD's special stages, but good god the collision detection when it comes to trying to hit some of those UFOs is off. It's like the UFO just vworps right under you.

As for S3&K's special stages, I don't mind them, but I'm not a terribly large fan of them either. Every so often I tried playing some Blue Sphere, though. Oh yeah, and I hate it when it speeds up.

[Phos]

Sonic CD's best parts aren't as good as the best parts from Sonic 3, but it never gets as bad as Sonic 3's problem areas. It also has the added longevity of time attacking it, though it is somewhat irritating that you can't easily replay levels you've already beaten with Time Travel intact without using the debug esque level select. Sonic 3's levels tend to be much more open to exploration and alternate routes, but Sonic 3's levels are longer with more variety. Some of Sonic CD's bosses are lame, especially the last one, but others are brilliant, such as the treadmill one. Sonic 3 did a bit better at making Sonic's world seem alive, but some of Sonic CD's look best when you're time attacking them, and thus going by faster. The environments seem made for viewing at high speeds. Palmtree Panic will almost hypnotize you if you let it. Sonic 3's story is a bit more detailed, but I think Sonic CD's simplicity leads to a sort of innocent charm, and is greatly helped by those famous animated cut scenes.

It seems as though my answer to this question depends on my mood.

[Sean]

The thing I loved about the PC version of Sonic CD was how I could select any level of any time zone via a drop-down menu (when you modify the game's ini file) that is lost whenever I play the game in Kega Fusion.

I guess I could look for that patch to get my copy of Sonic CD running again but eh. The game crashed whenever I ran it in fullscreen mode.

[Eternal EX]

Who cares? Sonic 1 tops them both.

Even though its just your opinion and I respect that, I TOTALLY DISAGREE with you. Sonic 1 to me was the blehest one of the original 4 (5 counting S&K as a separate game). Yes without the 1st we wouldn't have sonic now but...He wasnt fast in the 1st game. He was moving at the speed of...any other normal platformer. Hell mario at times moved alot faster. And the special stages, which were cool, were to me very complicated. If i had to rank sonic 1 with the other 3-5 games, the order would be:

1. Sonic 3 & knux

2. tie between Sonic 3 w/o knux and Sonic 2 (with or W/O knuckles)

3. Sonic CD

4. Sonic the hedgehog

5. Sonic and Knuckles

[Sean]

No respecting of opinions allowed. ):<

There's a certain pizazz to Sonic 1's simplicity, however. I'd actually rank it as my second favorite of the original four, right after Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

[Semi-colon e]

I like certain stages in S3&K more than any in Sonic CD (Hydrocity and Carnival Night), but my main issue is the stages are just way too long for their own good, especially, ESPECIALLY in Sonic and Knuckles. S&K is nowhere near the standard imo of Sonic 3, it just made it way too long with each level, and trying to play the whole thing in one go is painful after Sonic 3's half. Nonetheless, it is a rich, varied, and good game, and Knuckles's playthrough is different but very good. That, and the shields. The shields are one of the best things about it.

Sonic CD is easier to pick up and beat as it's not exactly challenging and long, but can get quite confusing with awkward level design. However, there is a lot more platforming and intricate movements, and the environments with the epic music (both) and time periods add considerable replay value. There is also a shitload of routes to go through. However, some levels feel clumsy and don't flow as well as levels in S3&K, and some of the bosses are disappointing, though the rest are good.

Sonic CD is the funkier of the two games, S3&K felt, like Sonic 2, oddly mundane or bland in half of it's environments, especially Sandopolis. Not as bad as some parts of SA2 or 06, but enough so, and not as unique or exciting as Sonic 1's, CD's, or even Rush Adventure's for a more modern example.

But which do I prefer? I like both in equal properties, but think S3&K is overrated as it gets tedious, but some levels in Sonic CD are also tedious. I also much prefer CD's music. I find myself drawn to CD more as it's easier to sit down and beat in one sitting, even if S3&K is probably more polished.

As for Sonic 2, it may have a few bland environments, but with plenty of alternate routes, and most of the levels flow better and I find it a bit easier to pick up and play, even if it takes a slight dive after Mystic Cave, and before that, Aquatic Ruin. For some reason I prefer Rush Adventure to them all anyway, I find it easier to pick up and play, even if it's "not as good."