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Sonic Forces Trailer- GHZ, Classic Gameplay, New Character Tease

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19 minutes ago, Tomazo said:

I still don't really understand what are SEGA's plans with the Sonic franchise. It's like they purposely keep avoiding what they were good at.

Nothing seen in the past few hours should give you any reason to be confused about the direction of Sonic Forces. Even since 2011 people have been wanting to see a direct sequel to Sonic Generations, as it was the last great Sonic game. Now in Sonic Forces with have that direct sequel, the return of both classic and modern Sonic with their respective gameplay; a reasonable and widely popular move for Sonic Team to make. The only wild card here is that mystery third character and it's gameplay but it is indeed a character creation system then I don't think there's anything to worry, player made characters will most likely stick to the established classic and modern gameplay mechanics.

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3 minutes ago, Kintor said:

Nothing seen in the past few hours should give you any reason to be confused about the direction of Sonic Forces.

Yes, I am confused, whatever happened in the past few hours. I think the creators don't do the steps the franchise really needs, and I don't understand why they do what they do.

8 minutes ago, Kintor said:

Even since 2011 people have been wanting to see a direct sequel to Sonic Generations, as it was the last great Sonic game.

Really? I didn't read comments saying this in the past few hours.

I also wouldn't say Forces is a direct sequel to Generations, although the gameplay is the boost formula again, and classic Sonic sadly appears here too, there's no other sign to returning to the past.

10 minutes ago, Kintor said:

Now in Sonic Forces with have that direct sequel, the return of both classic and modern Sonic with their respective gameplay; a reasonable and widely popular move for Sonic Team to make.

One of the worst moves for Sonic Team to make. I think we've seen quite enough nostalgia and endlessly returning elements. Also, there is Sonic Mania for those who would like to celebrate the classic era. It is quite the time for an actually NEW Sonic game to come, as we only saw remakes or horribly bad experiments in the last years.

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16 minutes ago, Tomazo said:

Really? I didn't read comments saying this in the past few hours.

I also wouldn't say Forces is a direct sequel to Generations, although the gameplay is the boost formula again, and classic Sonic sadly appears here too, there's no other sign to returning to the past.

Whether you realise it or not there have been strong and consistent calls for Sonic Generations 2 ever since 2011. It's a logical move to make; Sonic Generations was a huge success for Sega, while the likes of Lost World and Sonic Boom were not. It doesn't need time travel to past levels to be a direct sequel, the importance thing is the return of both classic and modern gameplay in the style of what Sonic Generations was able to achieve. New twists on the formula, like its darker themes and possibly even a character creation system are what give Sonic Forces its unique qualities as a sequel.

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Calling it now. We'll get another time travel story where eggman conquers the world before sonic was even born. The green hill in the footage is basically Green Hill..but destroyed.

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4 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

Jesus Christ there is a lot of salt here. I need some water. I'll admit I haven't watched the Gameplay yet but I Honestly can't see how it could possibly merit this angry of an reaction. 

Tell me if you find any "water" in that trailer...that might be why there's a lot of salt here.

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3 hours ago, Kintor said:

Whether you realise it or not there have been strong and consistent calls for Sonic Generations 2 ever since 2011. It's a logical move to make; Sonic Generations was a huge success for Sega, while the likes of Lost World and Sonic Boom were not. It doesn't need time travel to past levels to be a direct sequel, the importance thing is the return of both classic and modern gameplay in the style of what Sonic Generations was able to achieve. New twists on the formula, like its darker themes and possibly even a character creation system are what give Sonic Forces its unique qualities as a sequel.

If Generations was a success, the right step isn't making (with a strong word) a copy of it with the very same concept, only with a few modifications. I also don't think Generations was a so huge success in the franchise and it should be taken as a good example to follow. There were many other, much better concepts in the franchise that should be used, such as the hundreds of characters, places and stories from the comics, which could be adapted into the games. That would surely polish things with Sonic.

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2 minutes ago, Tomazo said:

If Generations was a success, the right step isn't making (with a strong word) a copy of it with the very same concept, only with a few modifications. I also don't think Generations was a so huge success in the franchise and it should be taken as a good example to follow. There were many other, much better concepts in the franchise that should be used, such as the hundreds of characters, places and stories from the comics, which could be adapted into the games. That would surely polish things with Sonic.

Um actually... 'the same concept with a few modifications' is the very definition of a direct sequel. Sega already tried wild experimentation after Sonic Generations, the end result were failures like Lost World and Sonic Boom. Now is the time for stability, by returning to the last successful gameplay formula that Sonic Team was able to develop with Sonic Generations. It's not too hard to understand, Sonic Forces is the right concept at the right time.

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If I'm going to be real here if they had said that forces was a sequel to generations I don't think a lot of people would be complaining this much. It's because they said that it isn't but everything that we've been seeing so far makes it seem like this is Sonic Generations 2.0 just sends mixed messages. They need to show us more of the game instead of being silent and in the shadows. BSC's video pretty much sums up my thoughts on this issue.

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5 minutes ago, Dejimon11 said:

If I'm going to be real here if they had said that forces was a sequel to generations I don't think a lot of people would be complaining this much. It's because they said that it isn't but everything that we've been seeing so far makes it seem like this is Sonic Generations 2.0 just sends mixed messages. They need to show us more of the game instead of being silent and in the shadows. BSC's video pretty much sums up my thoughts on this issue.

I'm not sure that'd have even made things better honestly. If they'd straight up said it's a Generations sequel and even literally titled it 'Sonic Generations 2' back in July people would have probably been ticked off that they've gone for what is possibly the most literal easy route possible. Generations was already playing it safe from a general concept standpoint and now, a mere two games later, they've somehow managed to use the safe idea...of reusing an existing safe idea.

I think the 'backlash' would have been fairly similar either way. The only reason this is worse is because Iizuka literally got on stage to say to people's faces that this 'is not a sequel but a brand-new experience" and so far they've done nothing but show things that would suggest it IS a second run of the Generations setup with the recent Classic Sonic footage being a worse offender than Classic Sonic himself even showing up. 

In fairness, in the end it probably would have been more ideal if they had admitted it's a sequel/follow-up, or heck even just flat out not said anything regarding that matter. Now that they've said that, people are gonna be holding them to those words until they prove the game to be its own unique thing.

And hey, maybe it is and they've just given us bad examples, but that's something they should've been considering when preparing public footage. Right now their biggest marketable difference is this third gameplay style/character and they've simply not bothered to give us any tangible info on it. I know they've got schedules and things for these reveals but something's wrong when we've known about the game for a day over 8 months and we've not seen a single gameplay element that isn't found near-identically in a game from 6 years ago.

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2 hours ago, SSF1991 said:

Boost.

Classic gameplay.

You know, the stuff that's in this game? And that people said they were good at?

Just saying.

I see. If boost or classic Sonic are involved, you are impressed. You need nothing else.

Congratulations.

5 hours ago, Kintor said:

Um actually... 'the same concept with a few modifications' is the very definition of a direct sequel. Sega already tried wild experimentation after Sonic Generations, the end result were failures like Lost World and Sonic Boom. Now is the time for stability, by returning to the last successful gameplay formula that Sonic Team was able to develop with Sonic Generations. It's not too hard to understand, Sonic Forces is the right concept at the right time.

'Returning to the successful formula' and 'time for stability' means that they have to re-release the same game, actually same animations and visual world they created in 2008 with Unleashed, reused in Generations and now once again?

I'd have nothing against the boost gameplay if the game itself would be interesting, or would contain some new elements. And I know some users here will go 'hey, we don't even know much about the game, it's just a short trailer'. But a trailer has to show the new developements or features a new game holds, and all the information they have released about Forces only show the very same thing as Unleashed and Generations.

In other words, they have nothing new to show or be proud of.

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2 hours ago, Tomazo said:

'Returning to the successful formula' and 'time for stability' means that they have to re-release the same game, actually same animations and visual world they created in 2008 with Unleashed, reused in Generations and now once again?

Exactly, when a game publisher makes something that fans like they are asked to make more games just like it. These shared gameplay and thematic ideas are the defining characteristics of a series. It shouldn't come as any surprise to you, given the success of Sonic Generations, that Sonic Forces is following in its footsteps. Sonic Generations is loved by Sonic Fans and general gamers alike, deciding to create Sonic Forces in the image of Sonic Generations is precisely the right call to make.

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Someone mentioned that the new Green Hill looks like a low-poly version of the one from Generations. After watching the Game Xplain side by side comparisons, it really does look like they sucked out a ton of detail from the terrain. Sonic Forces is really... flat.

A lot of people noted that Generations looked worse than Unleashed, and now Forces looks worse than Generations. It's a bit mind boggling because Forces is on much more powerful hardware.

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1 hour ago, KHCast said:

If Unleashed somehow is still the pinnacle of impressive visual flare and atmosphere for Sonic, despite the time spent on this and the hedgehog engine 2, I'm gonna just be baffled 

For what it's worth the visually in the modern gameplay still look great, as you can see from the latest batch of screenshots. This is why I think that the few seconds of classic gameplay might have actually been from the Switch version, hence the downgraded visuals. While the modern gameplay was most likely recorded from a PS4 or PC, which is why everything looks so much better.

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19 minutes ago, Kintor said:

For what it's worth the visually in the modern gameplay still look great, as you can see from the latest batch of screenshots. This is why I think that the few seconds of classic gameplay might have actually been from the Switch version, hence the downgraded visuals. While the modern gameplay was most likely recorded from a PS4 or PC, which is why everything looks so much better.

The NS is more powerful then a PS3 which Unleashed was on... So that makes no sense.

I say it's more 1 of 2 things. A design choice, to back this up you can see what looks like this simple green hill in the background on the modern Sonic level. or it is a early prototype build for the level that'll be replaced later.

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It's very convenient to have no proof and no way of verifying any statement you might make, because it means you can assume whatever you want, and by the time anyone can disprove your statement, it will have been long-forgotten.

For that reason, I'm going to propose that the Direct footage of the Modern Sonic gameplay was definitely from the Switch version because it was a different recording, and that the Classic gameplay was such a downgrade because the director didn't work on Generations and is bringing Lost World standards to the Classic visuals instead.

Oh, sorry, my mistake - I actually included two objectively-verifiable statements in my suggestion.  I'll have to try harder next time to create my own unprovable narrative rather than deducing from available evidence!

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23 minutes ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

The NS is more powerful then a PS3 which Unleashed was on... So that makes no sense.

I say it's more 1 of 2 things. A design choice, to back this up you can see what looks like this simple green hill in the background on the modern Sonic level. or it is a early prototype build for the level that'll be replaced later.

Not exactly, the Switch is just a rebranded Nvidia Shield, which was never designed to compete directly with PS3/Xbox 360 hardware. That in many ways thanks to its portable nature the Switch is significantly weaker compared to a console with similar hardware. Push the Switch too hard while it's in dock mode and the thing will start to overheat; so you'll never see what the Switch is truly capable of due to its flawed design. Inevitably this means that sacrifices have to be made to get Sonic Forces working on the Switch, most likely by removing graphical features in order to achieve a sustainable framerate. What we saw in the Nintendo Direct is unlikely to be representative of the main version of Sonic Forces.

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10 hours ago, Kintor said:

Exactly, when a game publisher makes something that fans like they are asked to make more games just like it. These shared gameplay and thematic ideas are the defining characteristics of a series. It shouldn't come as any surprise to you, given the success of Sonic Generations, that Sonic Forces is following in its footsteps. Sonic Generations is loved by Sonic Fans and general gamers alike, deciding to create Sonic Forces in the image of Sonic Generations is precisely the right call to make.

I can only repeat myself, I like the boost gameplay, but I don't think it's the big thing Sonic Team was good at. I became a Sonic fan because of the characters, the plot, the levels, the soundtrack and the awesome ideas the creators came up with. I actually have a personal connection with each character from the franchise, I loved the sound acting, their personalities and adventures. There was a point to fight yourself through the levels, because you knew you'll get a cutscene for your work, and you'll progress in the story.

In the past years, SEGA only tried focusing on impressing the fans, whatever it takes. And that's why their recent games were bad. They're just trying to attract fans back with boost gameplay and classic Sonic, but they don't know what were the true motivators in Sonic games. They have nothing new to show.

Dashing through the levels on high speed is fun, but it's pretty nonsense for me if there isn't a certain reason to do it. If there isn't a good background story, there's no motivation to play through the game. Boost gameplay is just a quite small part of the list, and if it's the only thing they can show from Forces, I am not impressed or hyped.

I hope I could make my opinion cleaner now.

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1 minute ago, Tomazo said:

I can only repeat myself, I like the boost gameplay, but I don't think it's the big thing Sonic Team was good at. I became a Sonic fan because of the characters, the plot, the levels, the soundtrack and the awesome ideas the creators came up with. I actually have a personal connection with each character from the franchise, I loved the sound acting, their personalities and adventures. There was a point to fight yourself through the levels, because you knew you'll get a cutscene for your work, and you'll progress in the story.

In the past years, SEGA only tried focusing on impressing the fans, whatever it takes. And that's why their recent games were bad. They're just trying to attract fans back with boost gameplay and classic Sonic, but they don't know what were the true motivators in Sonic games. They have nothing new to show.

Dashing through the levels on high speed is fun, but it's pretty nonsense for me if there isn't a certain reason to do it. If there isn't a good background story, there's no motivation to play through the game. Boost gameplay is just a quite small part of the list, and if it's the only thing they can show from Forces, I am not impressed or hyped.

I hope I could make my opinion cleaner now.

Well, if it's more story you want then you might be in luck with Sonic Forces. The whole post-apocalyptic setting is making Sonic Forces much darker then recent Sonic games, which I think bodes extremely well. Perhaps then Sega is listening to the many Sonic fans, myself included, who have been arguing for a greater level of storytelling. Now Sega just needs to make sure that Pontac and Graff are never allowed near a Sonic game ever game.

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3 minutes ago, Kintor said:

Well, if it's more story you want then you might be in luck with Sonic Forces. The whole post-apocalyptic setting is making Sonic Forces much darker then recent Sonic games, which I think bodes extremely well. Perhaps then Sega is listening to the many Sonic fans, myself included, who have been arguing for a greater level of storytelling. Now Sega just needs to make sure that Pontac and Graff are never allowed near a Sonic game ever game.

A story including Classic Sonic and Green Hill Zone...

Well... kinda familiar...

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1 minute ago, Tomazo said:

A story including Classic Sonic and Green Hill Zone...

Well... kinda familiar...

Perhaps but perhaps not. The 'Green Hill' we've seen in the classic footage looks like several different zones smashed together. Which has interesting story potential if that's the direct Sonic Team is taking the game.

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Being one of the people who were loving the idea of a Generations 2, that was
A ) before Sonic Mania and Lego Dimensions were around and
B )I meant that in a "Tight spectacle filled action platformer with no gimmicks and minimal padding involved." way, not a "do litteraly the exact same concept ad nauseam" one. Oh, and
C )If we're doing Generations again, it would be nice if you picked a couple NEW zones to redo. There's plenty to choose from, dudes.


But now we DO have Mania and Lego Dimensions, making the Meta time travel dimension hopping things a little over-used.
And considering all the constant hinting at new gameplay, the return of the Wisps, the guy directing Sonic Colors and Lost world (And NOT Generations...) is back in charge (Together with the guy in charge of Sonic 06 as a nice bonus. Man, the trailer should have started with "From the team that brought you Sonic 06 And Sonic Lost world." That'd be hilarious).

Game can still be good, and I'm still holding up some hope for E3, but MAN, there's a lot of alarmbells ringing that this game will be the exact kind of bloated gimmicky experimental pile of contradicting concepts that I loved Generations for NOT being.

To Forces' defense, I do love the idea of zones merging. Heck, they can put the whole "Sonic takes place in 2 worlds, a human one and a anthro one" issue to rest in finally having it demonstrated in-game. So it's definitly possible Sonic team can do some cool things with this concept, but MAN am I cautious with my optimism right now.

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