Sonic Forces- Classic GHZ Gameplay

[SolFlint]

Oh hey, Green Hill Zone... shoved into a sand-filled Grand Canyon :L

Should have known they're keeping the Lost World-esque sound effects.

As people have already brought up, the video is calling it Green Hill Zone, but then there's this tweet :/

 

[Ratcicle King]

24 minutes ago, Potada said:

Huh, didn't notice that. What tipped me off to it maybe being a placeholder was the start of the video. There's almost a 1 second delay between the level starting and the music playing. Knowing these two details, I'd be kind of surprised if this was the actual level music.

Not only that, but the song seems to reach a perfect stopping point after the guy finishes the level, instead of awkwardly fading out. Add that to the 1 second delay and it seems like the song was edited in and synched to the footage time to end exactly at that point

[StaticMania]

Quote

Well, I guess technically it teaches the player to watch out for hidden springs (which, again, I really wish they weren't hidden).

"Watching out for" and "Avoiding" hidden springs is what the level designers don't want, the put them there to "help" the player. But all they do is take away control and increase automation.

 

If there were any actual negative to using them, it'd be apparent in the level design. You're not suppose to know they're there.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Virtually every booster placement in this stage is stupid.

There is one exception and even then it depends on how powerful Sonic's spindash is...

[KHCast]

2 minutes ago, Ratcicle King said:

Not only that, but the song seems to reach a perfect stopping point after the guy finishes the level, instead of awkwardly fading out. Add that to the 1 second delay and it seems like the song was edited in and synched to the footage time to end exactly at that point

Gonna laugh if it turns out this is the actual stage song. All that detective work down the toilet 

[PickleBrows]

With regards to the whole "momentum" thing when bouncing on enemies. 

While it looks like the fixed rebound height from Generations is still here, keep in mind that Generations actually did have some areas that required the use of the badnik bounce to gain enough height and distance to access. I remember one section in Seaside hill which made you time your initial jump when the chopper badniks were at the peak of their jump so that you could bounce off both to land on a tiny collapsing platform and then use the momentum you're carrying to jump once more into a cannon.

I appreciate that this isn't as open to playing around as the massive badnik bounce/ using the water shield in the classics but I'd be surprised if there aren't a couple examples of that back again this time.

[Jango]

It sounds like Jun Senoue composed the music track

 

 

and I really don't mean that as a compliment

 

Don't spit on the plate you eat. Jun is a great composer, he's just not great at composing something classic-like, ergo why the Sonic 4's soundtrack is a hit or miss. It's like giving a veteran guitar player a saxophone and expects him to be good at. He's great at composing rock and pop-rock tracks, see the fucking Sonic Adventure soundtrack.

 

Ohtani is great, but I did expressed my concern on him being again the sole composer of a main-line game. His creativity will eventually dry out... Why SEGA didn't hired their other composers is beyond me.

[BubbleButt TV]

Here's another pic that shows the new motobug. I really like how the badniks look in this and I especially dig the LED-esque design, it looks pretty cool.

[Dee Dude]

Agreed, I like how they have a slight Tron like aesthetic while keeping the old fashioned simplistic look of the Badniks and no realistic I, Robot esque designs like in 06 or even SA2.

[Riseodvi]

The level design is a bit bland and there's no interesting new stage gimmicks. What a bummer.

The music is sort of catchy but I think we could move past the "Genesis Soundfont" sound for the big budget series.

 

I'm sure it will still be fun, but I was hoping for something more than this.

[JezMM]

Looks fine.  I'm sad they've learned nothing from Mania and are content to just make a level-pack sequel for Generations' game engine, but whatever I enjoyed it there I'll enjoy it here and honestly it's no shocker that they decided to do it that way whatsoever.  I agree with comments that Classic Sonic looks a bit anti-momentum and weirdly "heavy" and sharp with his movements, a bit off-putting.

The music is... eeesh.  I LOVE the melody, it's seriously good stuff, but what the shit is that instrumentation.  There's a good tune in there somewhere but this almost sounds like some kind of warped version of that tune that the official sonic twitter would use for a bizarre non-sequitur sanic video with intentionally bad animation.

It's way, way too jarring a difference.  I hope this is a WIP of the track and it's going to get a treatment to it to put it in style with Classic Sonic's music in Generations.  I want more o' that funky electronic pop stuff.

1 hour ago, Jango said:

There's just too much automation in there, I especially dislike the ending segment with the falling bridge. What if I want to go back and get more itens, rings? This ain't Uncharted, the classic gameplay don't need SCRIPTED SEQUENCES to be cool.

There have been scripted sequences as far back in the series as Sonic 1's lava tidal wave blocking off the first half of the act in Marble 2, and Sonic 3 & Knuckles was chock-full of backtracking-incompatible set-pieces, whatchu talking about.

[Nepenthe]

Actual thoughts on the video itself.

The music's worst offense is the weird midi-esque cat instrumentation. The actual melody itself is upbeat and ultimately inoffensive. Change the fucking instruments.

Graphically, it looks better than Generations. It's not chock full of all of the densely-populated geometry Gens GHZ had, but the anti-aliasing and proper atmospheric lighting make what is there look clean AF. It is a definite upgrade and you all should be fucking thankful we finally got an upgrade after Unleashed set the benchmark. The weirdest thing at first was the sand waterfall in the beginning because it looks very flat under the shadows, and I honestly can't tell whether that's a mistake or a deliberate oddity for the reveal of the huge sand river later, which in turn is a great vista.

Speaking of that vista, I'm kinda pissed we can't go there. Or at least, I think we can't go there- I've rewound it a few times and I can't see any indications (rings, springs, enemies, etc.) that we can, which is ultimately symptomatic of my longing for more traditional and methodical platforming to finally snake it's way back into the series, and ultimately just how boring Classic Sonic looks to play. 

Aside from the numbing linearity of it all (going forward in a straight line is only fun if you've got blistering speed a la boost or the timing-based shenanigans of Rayman or Donkey Kong, and Classic so far has neither), looking at him make jumps, it looks like he's got this weird binary feel in the air where momentum is either on or off, and entirely dependent upon whether you're pushing the stick over. Basically, it looks like if you wanted to make a jump from a standstill, if you stopped pushing the stick over while over a hole, he'd stop immediately in midair and fall straight down. His momentum doesn't look like it carries over naturally.

But why should I have expected anything better from the guy who directed Colors and Lost World in an era where people want little more than superficial nostalgia huehuehuehuehuehuehue.

It gets a C+ out of 10.

[SBR2]

1 hour ago, Strong Guy said:

That looks way better than what the trailer showed. I dig the music too, very cute.

I think I actually prefer the simpler style now that there's a much better look at it.

Also, the spin dash is not as ridiculously overpowered as it was in Generations. +10 points for that.

Not trying to be a smart ass but like of course a minute of Gameplay's going to look better than the brief, BRIEF, look we got in the last teaser.

Anyway I think this looks really fun. It looks way more similar to the actual Classic Sonic Gameplay than Generations.

[azoo]

For every place there should be a ramp or something to keep the flow going, they instead have a flat wall and a spring. And for every loop and slope there's a dash pad to precede it. And yeesh, that music.

Releasing this the same year as (in fact after) Mania is downright hilarious. Good show, ST, loving the laughs.

[JezMM]

Random observation, seems they've replaced the helpful but garish "WARNING BOTTOMLESS PIT!!" signposting from Generations/Episode 2 with wooden "X" panels surrounding offending pits that fit into the zone's visual style.

Frankly there's kind of... a lot of them if this is Classic Sonic's first stage, but still, an aesthetically pleasing touch.

[Indigo Rush]

7 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

in an era where people want little more than superficial nostalgia huehuehuehuehuehuehue.

I have yet to find a single human being that's excited for this game because Green Hill Zone and Classic Sonic are in it.

Assuming you're not just being funny. Because holy halibut this forum in the past few months.

19 minutes ago, Jango said:

Don't spit on the plate you eat. Jun is a great composer, he's just not great at composing something classic-like, ergo why the Sonic 4's soundtrack is a hit or miss. It's like giving a veteran guitar player a saxophone and expects him to be good at. He's great at composing rock and pop-rock tracks, see the fucking Sonic Adventure soundtrack.

I did it in 2010 and I'll do it in 2017, if he can't play the Cat-o-thizer, don't give him a Cat-o-thizer. I'm allowed to have standards.

[Solly]

I think my problem with the music, besides the instrumentation, is how fast-paced it sounds. Classic Sonic songs usually move at a slower tempo and hang on some long notes. For as much flak as people like to give Sonic 4's OST, they actually adhered to this pretty well and managed to make some decent, if not good, Sonic-y songs, especially in Episode 2. 

The GHZ theme in Forces (which I don't personally think is a placeholder) sounds more fitting for a Special Stage or something. 

[Nepenthe]

Just now, Indigo Rush said:

I have yet to find a single human being that's excited for this game because Green Hill Zone and Classic Sonic are in it.

The only reason Classic Sonic is back is because people wanted him back, because they were totes okay with the same exact thing we got in Generations. In fact, I'd put $100 down on the assertion that most people outside of nerdy niche' Sonic circles are probably happy that this is basically Generations 2 in all but name.

So yeah, everyone who liked Classic Sonic in Gens is to blame for this.

EVERYONE.

[azoo]

Nah, because even with it being Generations 2 in all but name, they'll run away from the "Buddy" character creator thing, and everything will fall to shit regardless of whatever twelve-directioned pandering they try to pull off in this game.

But that's another can of worms to open once we get around to E3 2017, right boys? :^)

[Muscles Maximum]

6 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

Not trying to be a smart ass but like of course a minute of Gameplay's going to look better than the brief, BRIEF, look we got in the last teaser.

More saturated color, more interesting background. More lively. The footage actually looks better.

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

2 minutes ago, Strong Guy said:

More saturated color, more interesting background. More lively. The footage actually looks better.

They removed the pyramid and added a canyon like scenes to it...

[Indigo Rush]

Just now, Nepenthe said:

The only reason Classic Sonic is back is because people wanted him back, because they were totes okay with the same exact thing we got in Generations. In fact, I'd put $100 down on the assertion that most people outside of nerdy niche' Sonic circles are probably happy that this is basically Generations 2 in all but name.

So yeah, everyone who liked Classic Sonic in Gens is to blame for this.

EVERYONE.

It's not my fault Sonic Team is stupid. I will not be held accountable for Sega giving us a monkeys paw with us wanting to see more of Classic Sonic with improved fidelity. I wanted Mania, and I'm getting Mania, but I didn't want another Generations, let alone one that manages to not learn anything from past endeavors, and I'm fairly certain I'm not the only one around here who feels that way.

Kinda like that time where people were sick of playing as characters that had nothing to do with Sonic's core gameplay, therefore we get a game where you technically play as Sonic, but half of the time he's a furry Mr Fantastic on steroids. Doesn't quite satisfy what people are asking for, does it?

[Muscles Maximum]

Yeah and it looks better.

[Blue Blood]

Fucking wow, SEGA. This is a special kind of bad.

[Sonikko]

36 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

Virtually every booster placement in this stage is stupid.

There is one exception and even then it depends on how powerful Sonic's spindash is...

Absolutely, but every single one of them is there to avoid the player to even loosing the slightest amount of speed, like the one right here

 

Or to fake momentum, like I predicted when the 10 seconds footage was first shown.

If you pay attention through the whole video, Sonic is NEVER shown interacting with sloped terrain, without hitting a booster, or an S tunnel thing that is also automated. Besides that, in Generations, Sonic was able to mantain the momentum gained through a booster, or at least some of it, here after the scripted event you just get back to normal speed cap, and it's really jarring. Especially in this situation

Right after the first S tunnel, there's a brief section where Sonic is running, and he loses all the speed he gained through the scripted event, just to regain it in the next tunnel, 2 seconds ahead. It looks BAD.

Also, why is everything so flat? I get minimalistic design and everything, but the level design is flat, it looks like an old Mario level. Even New Super Mario levels are more sloped than this.

So, everything I said about the 10 seconds footage was just confirmed in this level playthrough, the issues were evident just by watching a short gameplay video. I really hope that the Modern sections and the 3rd character sections are very good, because while Classic Sonic doesn't look boring per-se, it's surely not the selling point of the game for me. I could do without that kind of levels in the game, to be quite honest!