Archie Sonic Hiatus Discussion

[Big Panda]

STAFF NOTE: See here for the main Archie discussion thread:

I'm personally getting bored with the main thread being nothing but talk about the hiatus. I know it's a big problem and we're not getting any new material as a result, but I'd still much rather talk about more positive things there, like discussing old stories, making theories about upcoming plots, etc, even if the comic does turn out to be dead.

So maybe talk about it here instead?

I'll even get things started by writing a summary:

What's happening?

The Archie Sonic titles went on a hiatus in January 2017. The last publication to be released before it occurred was Sonic Universe #94 on January 11th, which was the final chapter of the "Case of the Pirate Princess" story arc. Two weeks before that came the last issue of the main series to be released, Sonic the Hedghog #290, which featured the third chapter of the 25th anniversary "Genesis of a Hero" arc, which is intended to be a four-parter, thus the final chapter is still being held from us.

This event was incredibly unexpected. Sonic's comic book adventures were continuing as normal until that Universe issue was released, after which point, the option to subscribe to the comics from Archie's website was suddenly taken down, and Archie's social media feeds went completely silent on the matter, ceasing their promotion of the series in any way.

Why is this happening?

"Ongoing negotiations with SEGA". That's the reason often given by anybody who may remotely be in the know. Archie recently began acknowledging the questions about the series on social media after months of ignoring them, and they continue to say the same thing.

A common theory is that the current legal case with former writer Scott Fulop (creator of such pre-reboot characters as Mammoth Mogul and the Destructix) may also be a contributing factor, but this has not been confirmed.

Can I still get back issues from them?

Yes! Despite their months and months of ignoring the comics existence on social media, the Archie Comics online shop still continues to sell Sonic back issues and graphic novels, and they can still be bought digitally from the Archie App and other digital comic services as before.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

And might as well add - 

Oh no! ARE THE COMICS CANCELLED?! SOMEONE SAID ARCHIE CONFIRMED IT:

No. They are not as of yet cancelled, and discussions are ongoing regarding them. And no, just because talks being conducted months ago does not mean that the comics are cancelled either as we don't know the time scale of the talks, what the deeper issues of the talks are, and more. The reason why this is being said is at least once a month, someone enters the thread with "news" that the comic is for definite cancelled, and every single time, it ends up getting debunked. Especially with the last time with Archie themselves debunking it by confirming they were still in talks, and if anything, the fact they finally began to talk meant that they were getting somewhere hopefully.  In short, unless proper evidence is given, consider it bullshit. 

[doctorbenMD]

40 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

And might as well add - 

Oh no! ARE THE COMICS CANCELLED?! SOMEONE SAID ARCHIE CONFIRMED IT:

No. They are no of yet cancelled, and discussions are ongoing regarding them. And no, just because talks being conducted months ago does not mean that the comics are cancelled either as we don't know the time scale of the talks, what the deeper issues of the talks are, and more. The reason why this is being said is at least once a month, someone enters the thread with "news" that the comic is for definite cancelled, and every single time, it ends up getting debunked. Especially with the last time with Archie themselves debunking it by confirming they were still in talks, and if anything, the fact they finally began to talk meant that they were getting somewhere hopefully.  In short, unless proper evidence is given, consider it bullshit. 

At the very least, it's worth pointing out that Lisa from the subscription office did tell me back in mid-January when I called that the book "might be cancelled," and then quickly changed her answer when other people called.

And at the very least, it's worth pointing out how quick Archie reached out to Bleeding Cool once they published the story about my source saying Goldwater wanted to "get away from Sonic and Mega Man because they aren't really Archie." That's definitely math you can't ignore. What my source told me about the book getting cancelled shouldn't be taken necessarily as gospel, but them mentioning it to me was important enough for me not to just not mention it. 

Look, if the book's NOT cancelled and talks between SEGA and Archie didn't end (like my source said they did), great! I'd love for the book to continue as would every one else. 

But sweeping everything under the rug and saying "this is fine!!!!1111!!!" because of two tweets means you're just disregarding everything else that happened.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

5 minutes ago, doctorbenMD said:

At the very least, it's worth pointing out that Lisa from the subscription office did tell me back in mid-January when I called that the book "might be cancelled," and then quickly changed her answer when other people called.

And at the very least, it's worth pointing out how quick Archie reached out to Bleeding Cool once they published the story about my source saying Goldwater wanted to "get away from Sonic and Mega Man because they aren't really Archie." That's definitely math you can't ignore. What my source told me about the book getting cancelled shouldn't be taken necessarily as gospel, but them mentioning it to me was important enough for me not to just not mention it. 

Look, if the book's NOT cancelled and talks between SEGA and Archie didn't end (like my source said they did), great! I'd love for the book to continue as would every one else. 

But sweeping everything under the rug and saying "this is fine!!!!1111!!!" because of two tweets means you're just disregarding everything else that happened.

It's not "sweeping everything under the rug", it's called not going into panic mode and making assumptions and it's got more evidence than "supposed" sources with no evidence claimed shit that later get debunked

[Dejimon11]

24 minutes ago, doctorbenMD said:

At the very least, it's worth pointing out that Lisa from the subscription office did tell me back in mid-January when I called that the book "might be cancelled," and then quickly changed her answer when other people called.

And at the very least, it's worth pointing out how quick Archie reached out to Bleeding Cool once they published the story about my source saying Goldwater wanted to "get away from Sonic and Mega Man because they aren't really Archie." That's definitely math you can't ignore. What my source told me about the book getting cancelled shouldn't be taken necessarily as gospel, but them mentioning it to me was important enough for me not to just not mention it. 

Look, if the book's NOT cancelled and talks between SEGA and Archie didn't end (like my source said they did), great! I'd love for the book to continue as would every one else. 

But sweeping everything under the rug and saying "this is fine!!!!1111!!!" because of two tweets means you're just disregarding everything else that happened.

Ok since I've been quiet about this for a month now because I didn't want to cause any drama and didn't know how the best way to put it but might as well: I was told from a reliable source that "I shouldn't believe everything you hear online" and pretty much debunked that rumor that you posted. Archie and SEGA are in talks right now that's pretty much true. This is just me speaking but honestly with how long this stuff has been going on it could change either way. Hell I remember we knew something like this was coming back in December/January when @VEDJ-F first posted a rumor that the book might get canceled and this was before shit hit the fan. 

[doctorbenMD]

8 minutes ago, Dejimon11 said:

Ok since I've been quiet about this for a month now because I didn't want to cause any drama and didn't know how the best way to put it but might as well: I was told from a reliable source that "I shouldn't believe everything you hear online" and pretty much debunked that rumor that you posted. Archie and SEGA are in talks right now that's pretty much true. This is just me speaking but honestly with how long this stuff has been going on it could change either way. Hell I remember we knew something like this was coming back in December/January when @VEDJ-F first posted a rumor that the book might get canceled and this was before shit hit the fan. 

Again, if my source is wrong and talks are still ongoing, great. I would love to be wrong and for the book to eventually come back from this.

[RetroRy]

I'm inclined to believe @Dejimon11 claims right now because honestly, its the first time we heard any positive news about the whole situation. Every month has been "my source said it's cancelled" from a different user with no confirmation. Now Archie is actually responding (barely but still) and now we have a positive source. Could it be true? Still take it with a grain of salt but after weathering 6 months of "its cancelled, my source is always right" it's interesting to see the exact opposite of that is happening. 

 

Edited June 10, 2017 by Zaysho

[Zaysho]

Gonna ask that we move on from the random outburst I removed and just stay the course with this topic. Any trouble, report it.

[Kintor]

At this point it's probably worth considering the idea that the Archie run Sonic comics are effectively done at this point. Even if no official cancelation announcement has been made the damage has already been done. Months of unexplained hiatus, in the always shaky comic book industry, is just going to burn long time readers and scare anybody else anyway. So that even if publication were to resume tomorrow it's highly likely that sales would crater dramatically into cancelation levels and never recover.

The best chance for Sonic comics is for Sega to give the licence to somebody else. In the past I had recommended IDW but recently they've been getting a lot of flak over their mishandling of the Transformer comics. Still, there's got to be some other Indy publisher will and able to competently publish a new generation of Sonic comics.

[Scritch the Cat]

While they might not be intending to cancel the book as of now, if they can avoid it, and I'm guessing the unfinished arcs will be finished, you do have to wonder how long they'll want to go if this legal shit keeps happening, or even if they just fear it could.

Presumably, SEGA and Archie see eye-to-eye in that both would prefer things not happen that scare audiences away from their Sonic stuff, but their disagreements could be over whether that preference takes priority over other concerns.  Archie retconning their stories to remove characters and change settings, as prompted by Penders, and maybe to be again by Fulop, is a big risk to maintaining readers, but it's also possible that SEGA wants them to retcon things out; things that SEGA doesn't explicitly own.  For SEGA, this would likely be with the intention of removing themselves from the risk of any more lawsuits, but Archie would rightly consider such a move the most alienating retcon yet to their readers.

That's just a theory, and for all I know, their disagreements could be about little more than money, but I'm not sure how likely that is because I don't know what their existing deals are.  Is Archie paying SEGA a set rate for the license to sell books about Sonic, or is Archie forwarding royalties to SEGA from the sales, or is it both?  Or is it that SEGA is paying Archie to write and sell Sonic books, and taking back most of the profits?  Can someone answer those, at least?

[BlueSky]

I don't know about that stuff (probably we will never know since aren't those the kind of facts companies don't want to show to the outsiders or are there something that makes companies show their money transferring for public mandatory, some countries do have some things like that for some types of companies), but I think stuff in post-SGW timeline is pretty much Sega's however one looks at it. I suppose this stands for even the stuff from the cartoons, but well, I could be wrong.

And stuff created specifically for the comics... aren't there those contracts that prevent creative staff carrying any rights over the content they make for the comics? At least I recall so...

And yay for you making a new topic! This sure is alot healthier way, that "every month someone asks" thing was creating a neverending cycle...

Archie and Sega should get a Nobel prize (not Millenium Technology Prize though, since it doesn't make our lives any better outside being a steam eruption channel for frustrated fans) for making a working perpetual motion machine in on these Sonic sites.

[Detective Kaito]

Someone on these forums once theorized that the comics are on hiatus because of Sonic Mania's delay. The Classic Sonic Arc probably had spoilers for Mania or something?

[Your Vest Friend]

That's ridiculous for two reasons;

1. The end of the classic arc was covering S3&K, it'd have no reason to have Mania spoilers.

2. The original release date for the last part was January 2017, which would still have been at least 2-3 months before Mania was out.

But speaking of classic, wouldn't SEGA doubling down on the classic branch in the wake of Mania play havok with the comics' narrative?

[Scritch the Cat]

On 6/10/2017 at 2:26 PM, BlueSky said:

I don't know about that stuff (probably we will never know since aren't those the kind of facts companies don't want to show to the outsiders or are there something that makes companies show their money transferring for public mandatory, some countries do have some things like that for some types of companies), but I think stuff in post-SGW timeline is pretty much Sega's however one looks at it. I suppose this stands for even the stuff from the cartoons, but well, I could be wrong.

And stuff created specifically for the comics... aren't there those contracts that prevent creative staff carrying any rights over the content they make for the comics? At least I recall so...

And yay for you making a new topic! This sure is alot healthier way, that "every month someone asks" thing was creating a neverending cycle...

Archie and Sega should get a Nobel prize (not Millenium Technology Prize though, since it doesn't make our lives any better outside being a steam eruption channel for frustrated fans) for making a working perpetual motion machine in on these Sonic sites.

Does SEGA own the characters who originated in Sonic cartoons?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

10 minutes ago, Scritch the Cat said:

Does SEGA own the characters who originated in Sonic cartoons?

To my knowledge, yes. They own everything in the cartoons. Not that we'll see them anytime soon anywhere, unfortunately.

[NicoGuardian]

On 10/6/2017 at 3:13 AM, Zaysho said:

 

1 hour ago, Borvoc said:

@NicoGuardian, Sonic fans and the quality of recent Sonic games and TV show is a very interesting topic to discuss, but it's probably outside the purpose of this thread, aside from how it affects or could affect the comics. To me, the comics have been higher quality than the rest of the recent franchise. Perhaps I am missing your point, so if I am, I would need you to further explain what you mean. ^_^;. If you're saying that the fans are killing the comics, then I hope it's not true, but I can see where you're coming from.

You are correct in saying that Archie is not as successful as Marvel and DC—at least not as classically successful as sold in comic shops. Unlike Marvel and DC, Archie is able to sell in grocery stores, which is money we likely don't get to see accounted for in sales figures that come from the comic stores, but I would still say that Archie is a much smaller company than Marvel and DC and operates on an entirely different level. I would put Archie closer to IDW and other smaller publishers, probably even smaller than IDW, but I have no real information beyond that opinion.

I think the main guesses regarding what's going on between Archie and Sega are (and others can add to the list):

1. Archie and Sega are renegotiating the contract. Either Sega wants more money for the license or they want to be paid separately for "classic" Sonic and "modern" Sonic, which again is more money. Or maybe they want Archie to reboot like you mentioned and make the comics even more like the games if not exactly the same and Archie is fighting back (I don't see this last option as likely, because I don't think it would take this long to figure out).
2. Archie doesn't care about Sonic anymore because of their new Riverdale TV show and their All New All Different Archie. (Some sources seem to have denied this, but it could still be a small factor regarding what Archie is choosing to focus on.)
3. Archie is having financial issues and simply can't print the issues or pay for the license until things stabilize. (I don't know if people are actually saying this; it's just a thought. Archie has printed on lower-quality paper for their trade paperbacks recently.)
4. The Fulop lawsuit has something to do with what's going on. Either it's draining resources or making Sega question whether or not they want to continue doing business with Archie. Maybe Archie and Sega are both waiting on the results of the court case before deciding what to do with the comics. (Again, some disagree with this possibility, but I think it could maybe at least be a small factor.)

Whether any of the of the above is true, I don't think anyone can say with certainty, but that's my attempt at consolidating the various theories.

I've stated before that I hope that Sega isn't demanding another reboot, since I think this would bring the comics down to the level of the rest of the current franchise and guarantee financial ruin and cancellation of the comics. You're right; doing so would make the comics little more than filler for the sub-par games, while possibly still being better than the games.

I can't tell if you're asking me about Countdown, but I liked it just fine. I'm  happy to hear your thoughts if you have any.

 @BorvocI respond you right here, sorry for the mess everybody. 

Really really sorry, I do not mean that fans have killed Sonic. I simply referred to an article (I do not recall what site) where it seemed to blame the fans for what's happening with the comics.
"Where are Sonic fans in this difficult time?" It hurls me as much as Sonic is so underestimated ... as if there was no one to hold to him and their friends (I said it as if they existed, but wisely, they understood the concept ... XD).

To follow your point: I know Archie has released volumes / graphic novel by Sonic containing issues to "keep up with Marvel / DC." One of the reasons for the discussions might have been the high costs of the discussions, and as a result, revenue was not great. Or maybe the issues are the same as you said at the first point I now list my theories / opinions.

1. The fact that Sega wants more money makes me frighten and at the same time makes me angry. If I say it correctly, it's as if they even underestimate the franchise they have created and in recent years, since maybe they have not earned anything or enough from their other games, they ask for more money. I understand that they are the creators but I feel a bit selfish about them, given the millions of copies sold and the efforts they are doing with Sonic Mania and Forces (of which the latter have great expectations). I am of the opinion that comics based on current video games may not be as effective as interest in the universe created by Archie. I could be wrong, but it depends on how they want to set both Archie and Sega the entire narrative structure.

2. Riverdale I do not know him, but as far as I can see he has nice numbers as the views and the only see that Netflix is streaming it ... I want to blow my hand on my face. I would not be surprised if Netflix was helping so much to encourage them to concentrate more on this show ... sigh. All New All Different Archie is a reboot of the same publishing house?

3. I did not care about image quality, but how much did they start to publish in low quality? Honestly, I thought they would do it regardless of being a small publishing house. However, it may have some influence on sales ... I've never heard anyone who is happy to read a low-quality comic, especially if he buys it digitally.

4. Where did I get lost, what happened exactly among the writers? (Always being true voices)

I thank you for sharing all this information and I'm happy to think you like me about comics based on the games. It is not a wish to reject the idea ... but to make the point better: for me to make a comic set with the game would be like making a 100 million dollar movie, instead of making it one 200 million, like what Archie did. I do not know if I explain.
It may also be a good compromise or a good idea to do separately (just like Sonic Boom), but ... in short, I have doubts.

I personally am very happy with the reading of Sonic Archie. They are stories that give me a fantastic adventure feeling and the characters always (at least for me) have beautiful shades. Well, well, I think it's so pissed off by the simple fact that I love the anthropomorphic animal characters. They have a great influence on me ...

[Borvoc]

1 hour ago, NicoGuardian said:

1. The fact that Sega wants more money makes me frighten and at the same time makes me angry.

Just to be clear, this is just a guess, so don't take it as a fact. It might not be true. I agree with you, though.

1 hour ago, NicoGuardian said:

3. I did not care about image quality, but how much did they start to publish in low quality?

It was just two or so of the recent trade paperbacks (maybe someone will correct me). The images were fine, the pages just weren't glossy paper and were a little bit bumpier or rougher. They were still very readable, but the difference was obvious.

1 hour ago, NicoGuardian said:

4. Where did I get lost, what happened exactly among the writers? (Always being true voices)

Ken Penders and Scott Fulop are both writers who used to write for the comics. Recently, Ken said that Archie couldn't keep using his characters without paying him, so Archie did the Super Genesis Wave reboot to get rid of his characters. They probably had to pay him some money too. Now, Scott Fulop is saying the same thing about the characters he created in the comic, and he has been taking Archie to court over the issue. Luckily, I don't think any of his characters have been used recently anyway, but he may still be demanding money for the trade paperbacks with his characters that keep being sold.

I like that the recent reboot made the comics more like the games, but to make them exactly like the games would be a problem, because it would keep Archie from being able to come up with their own ideas.

I agree that Sega and Archie have done a good job of making well-defined, cartoon-like, animal creatures that are attractive in an artistic sense and fun to look at and play games or read about. Then again, that's one of the main points of art.

[Borvoc]

Also, I don't know what the post was that @Zaysho had to delete, so hopefully I'm not tempting fate here; I just want to say that I believe both @doctorbenMD and @Dejimon11, or at least believe that you're both telling the truth as best you know it (probably with very good sources too), and the same for everyone else here too. I'm very grateful to everyone who's constructively contributing to the conversation whether or not I like the implications of what's being said. I don't want anyone to feel "out in the cold" just because something is said to be true that I'd personally rather not be true (after all, the truth doesn't care about our feeling, right?). It's just that I'm still holding out for misunderstandings, miscommunications, or even for the truth itself to change over time. I respect everyone here and hope that no one's taking anything regarding rumors or inside information personally, regardless of the emotionally charged things may be.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like this is a sore spot, so I'll leave things at that.

[zephyrzaivian]

I'm not quite sure which of these topics to post this in, but I'll link it here. I knew Archie was bad, but this is a new low.

[Your Vest Friend]

Eh, it's tangential to the hiatus, so I would say here was right.

Yeah, pretty dickish of them to do that with the money. Is there an American equivalent of Trading Standards they can approach?

[Big Panda]

If they've started giving out refunds isn't that a bad sign? Or is this just a one off because of being called out publically?

In which case, since when did Archie give two shits about being badmouthed on social media?

[Your Vest Friend]

So far it seems like a one-off. 

As to why this one...it's one thing to be bad-mouthed generally, but a complaint regarding money is a lot more serious as it can put people off buying your product. 

Besides, Hesse listing Mega Drive as a previous work is the bad sign here.

[Big Panda]

The original Mega Drive is a year old, hardly a "current" work.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

This image showed up on r/sonicthehedgehog. I've gone to the site and it's not displaying this, but the user is an active one on the sub (even if hardly one I agree with on a lot of things).

It might be fake, but it's worth noting if it isn't.

 

[Zeer]

Seems to be from here. He's a pretty good artist, so if it's fake then he probably made the last cover.

http://wani-ramirez.tumblr.com/post/161876509995/anyone-else-saw-this-at-the-archie-comics