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Archie Sonic Hiatus Discussion

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Yo if you want to make the comics Game Centric only then we best be getting that Sonic Adventure feel for them. That's Sonic at it's best. Taking itself serious yet still light enough in the way the characters act. Dramatic in some ways but with ebough comedy to not overdo it. I won't mind a total reboot in that case. And if we get a good writer like Flynn taking the lead.

Also, more freedom with the SEGA cast. I understand why it's important to not change the appearance of the characters or make them too different from their core personality but still, more freedom on where and when can they can show up and what they can do. 

1 hour ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Games and comics are two different medias with different sizes of fandoms, cost productions, and a slew of other factors. That is a massive apples and orange comparison if there ever was one, dude. Plus, I was looking at a best case scenario of them not scrapping like you're suggesting here and having them keep things for the most part.

Look i'm not very familiar with comics other that Sonic. I don't like to read them because they never seem to, how do I put it... Have their shit together? So when we're speaking about comic fans, don't they have like a new reboot/continuity every four or five years? So I don't see how with Sonic it would be any different. We already had one reboot and before that a soft-reboot AND even before that going from the Penders storylines and themes to the Bollers stories and themes was very different. And the constant change of artsyles? That's the problem with comics. You're reading it, and then two or three years later comes new writer, new artist, new editor and it's almost a completely different book and all the stuff you read about before won't be relevant and if it is, it'll be completely different.

The comic, even if rebooted, will be the same if we keep the same staff. If we get new writers, artists and a new publisher altogether then it won't be the same even if we get to keep the new Archie continuity . Because we are so used to reading Flynn's Sonic. 

The Sonic comic has something unique that distinguishes it from the rest of the comic industry. And it's that it's a long running comic that for a long time now, has had the same creative staff working on it. On Marvel and DC and many other publishers they pass writers and artists like candy. It's like, you have no time to invest yourself in a book because they're always changing who works on the book. But on Archie they have let Flynn work on Sonic for years now, YEARS. Almost a decade I think.  He's been allowed to work on this book for longer that most other non-independant comic book writers have. It's impressive how much he's lasted.

It's not so much that people are complaning about the Archie universe getting scrapped, as they are about Flynn's Sonic getting scrapped. No one cares about Pender's stuff getting scrapped, and while some characters of Boller's are missed, most... Are not. And since Cesare's and Gallagher's stories were so comedic in nature and light on the story no one cares about that continuity gettting ignored too. That's why reception to the reboot while mixed at first, eventually warmed up. Because it was still the same staff and they did get to keep SOME of the characters. The mixed reception was  because it scrapped the universe Flynn had been working on, his stories, his characters. People were mostly relieved to get rid of the Penders and Boller's bagagge. 

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Point being: I believe that if we keep Flynn and the rest in a possible reboot that scraps the old universe, reception will be very mixed at first but will eventually warm up to it after Flynn has time to craft a new universe. But if we get a new writer even if we keep the current continuity, then who knows? It could be terrible if the writer is terrible, or great if they're great. Sonic could become just like any other comic out there. With new writers all the time that don't really care about keeping a continuity. 

Or, maybe i'm just overthinking things and the book is just cancelled (But Overdrive is still getting out, if any book makes it out it will be that, cause Classic Sonic) and so there is no point to writing all that. I sure hope it isn't cancelled though.

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34 minutes ago, RictalRose0 said:

Look i'm not very familiar with comics other that Sonic. I don't like to read them because they never seem to, how do I put it... Have their shit together? So when we're speaking about comic fans, don't they have like a new reboot/continuity every four or five years?

What does that have to do with Sonic, who's only had one new reboot throughout it's entire 20+ year life? And more importantly, why does that matter? Every comic does things differently, some reboot, some don't. 

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So I don't see how with Sonic it would be any different. We already had one reboot and before that a soft-reboot AND even before that going from the Penders storylines and themes to the Bollers stories and themes was very different. And the constant change of artsyles? That's the problem with comics. You're reading it, and then two or three years later comes new writer, new artist, new editor and it's almost a completely different book and all the stuff you read about before won't be relevant and if it is, it'll be completely different.

Except Sonic in this case generally keeps the elements in it's world. Even with a new writer, artist, and editor, the story kept pace and any changes that were made were so gradual that they don't even count as an actual reboot, especially given that we end up revisiting those old elements. The case with Penders was the only actual reboot due to legal issues, but any difference other than that were a matter of story progression--the Sonic Comic was a dynamic world, so things gradually changed as part of the actual story. And as a matter of fact, majority of the stuff we read before in the comics were relevant, because they often ended up being reused again, some more or less than others, but with a degree of focus nonetheless: the Dark Legion and it's central characters that weren't made dead in the story were still relevant prior to the reboot, as was the Echidna society, the Dragon Kingdom and the Iron Queen, Naugus, Mammoth Mogul, even the badniks which were gradually phased out more for the Swatbots, which were then phased out for the Egg Pawns, which were then phased out for the Egg Swats that fought alongside a new Dark Legion.

Sonic comics weren't handled the same way as DC or Marvel comics are. They rarely ditched anything if they could help it--if anything was to have an end, they'd either legitimately kill that character off for good or destroy whatever setting plot device they had. But overall, anything they kept was altered as just about everything else was to accommodate the dynamic setting it was in, and anything that was really gone was removed so gradual and with purpose that would actually work with the story instead of being a complete and sudden shift the the point of alienating the readerbase that was interested.

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The comic, even if rebooted, will be the same if we keep the same staff. If we get new writers, artists and a new publisher altogether then it won't be the same even if we get to keep the new Archie continuity . Because we are so used to reading Flynn's Sonic. 

It more than likely wouldn't, and even you should know that after what you just said.

Everyone here has already seen what happened if the comic was rebooted first hand given the first one we had--everything was different. We had the same staff, the same writers and artist, but we had a completely different world and many characters people really liked under Ian's pen were permanently removed to their dismay--while the Egg Bosses are a great replacement and things in a game-centric world are still interesting under this staff more than the games in some aspects, we lost the Dark (Egg) Legion, we lost dozens of characters unique to that world, we lost a great deal of intensity thanks to a massive reduction in the amount of territory Eggman has, and while thankfully this hasn't happened, we almost risked losing the Freedom Fighters for good in the only setting they can still be relevant in. We ironically got Knothole Villiage back and the Monarchy it's under after the former was completely bombed off the earth permanently in the old continuity, and the latter was transformed into a Republic instead.

So don't try to sell me this shtick that things will be the same, because after the first one happened I'd be skeptical of what would still be around if we were to have another. Even when those of us who stuck around after losing the things we loved in the old continuity, that reboot lost a number of readers as well with some considering the current continuity a shadow of it's former self (which I think is a bit unfair given how much of a bigger history the old continuity had developed over the years, but a point worth considering nonetheless). And many of us who like both the old and new continuity still want the old one back--I know I do, at least regarding a number of characters.

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Even if it's not really the same. We already lost the old universe, and you just said that the new universe according to you is not the same as the old universe at all. So, why do you care? This new universe has only existed for like 3 years. And I personally prefer it over the old universe. But I won't mind losing a universe that has only lived for like 3 years. It'll be sad. But it'll read it. As long as we keep Flynn, or the writer is decent.

Besides the whole more that half a year hiatus has made me come to terms with it.

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11 minutes ago, RictalRose0 said:

Even if it's not really the same. We already lost the old universe, and you just said that the new universe according to you is not the same as the old universe at all. So, why do you care? This new universe has only existed for like 3 years. And I personally prefer it over the old universe. But I won't mind losing a universe that has only lived for like 3 years. It'll be sad. But it'll read it. As long as we keep Flynn, or the writer is decent.

I care because I actually like this new universe despite losing the old one. And I say this as someone that never wanted the first reboot to happen in the first place and was ready to jump ship and not bother with this new universe because of that lost.

I stuck around mainly because I decided to give this one a chance and see what it could keep and was surprised at what it did well. The main problem veteran fans of the comics had with the reboot was because we were going to lose a lot of things that we liked, things that had been developed over 20 years. We don't want that risk again after actually coming around to like these new characters, settings, and conflicts, especially given how short they've been around by comparison to the old setting to where they're no where near as developed.

Yet, despite that lost, the new verse managed to keep a semblance of what the old universe had, like the Freedom Fighters still being around, Eggman still having an army of flesh and blood mooks and generals alongside his badniks, Eggman being a major threat, and so forth. Hell, one of the BIGGEST reasons that would have disappointed me was the potential loss of one of my all time favorite characters, Conquering Storm, and everyone in the Archie thread can tell you how excited I was to have her back given how much of a fan favorite she is. So that's another reason I stuck around--the next time this happens, and I lose that in a reboot, there's an even bigger chance I might not even bother with the comics at all. Many of these things I want to keep.

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Personally I would be sad to lose Antoine and Nicole most. With Nicole though I can at least say she got a good arc to herself (And Sally) and was one of the few characters of the old continuity that managed to actually be relevant in the new universe and you know, do stuff and have a good arc. Antoine though, that's sad because we were just getting to his story and we never really got around to see him shine in the new universe. Even in the old continuity he never got out of the bed because well, it was rebooted before he could become relevant again. So even if it sometimes look like i'm a cynic that doesn't like the Freedom Fighters that's not the case.

I care about these characters and I do hope they make it to a new book. But i'm a newer fan, so my attachment to the comic's universe and characters is not that big. I didn't grow up on SatAM or the old comics (just a bit of the Flynn run, which I read after the reboot) so yeah. But I understand, there's similar sentiment going around in all the Forces an Mania discussion. People don't want Sega to just scrap all the characters and continuities and make some sort of reboot. 

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Rebooting the comics and killing off their cast is guaranteed to make me lose interest in them. The main draw of them for me was that they were unique and had their own world separate from the games. The games themselves don't have the depth or consistency necessary to carry a comic series in the long term, so I'd hate to just see them devolve into rehashing game stories. This is actually why I skipped Megadrive and GoaH. Wasn't interested in more Classic rehashing.

I''m new to the comics (as in I started reading post-reboot), so to me, this would also be a terrible time to kill off the world. Finally get the pointless crossover and world-building filler out of the way, and we can finally start getting actual stories and exploring the new cast of characters... and now they no longer exist and any interest you had in them was wasted. Like the state of the story right before the reboot (from what I understand of it), a whole lot of buildup into a whole lot of nothing. 

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If Archie keeps the license, a relaunch will need to happen. Not necessarily a renumbering and/or a reboot, but they can't pick up where they left off and continue like nothing happened. Direct market sales were already going down in part because of the first hiatus. They'll have been gone for nearly a year in a medium built around creating habitual buyers. A lot of people were just broken of their Sonic buying habit and they won't be picking up new readers with part four of a flashback arc. If they don't return with something they can promote as a jumping on point for new and lapsed readers, something like Genesis, the book will have come back just to get cancelled.

If a different publisher has picked up the license, no more subs and magazine/digest reprints. The book will live or die entirely by its direct market sales for better or worse.

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6 hours ago, RictalRose0 said:

 

Look i'm not very familiar with comics other that Sonic. I don't like to read them because they never seem to, how do I put it... Have their shit together? So when we're speaking about comic fans, don't they have like a new reboot/continuity every four or five years? So I don't see how with Sonic it would be any different. We already had one reboot and before that a soft-reboot AND even before that going from the Penders storylines and themes to the Bollers stories and themes was very different. And the constant change of artsyles? That's the problem with comics. You're reading it, and then two or three years later comes new writer, new artist, new editor and it's almost a completely different book and all the stuff you read about before won't be relevant and if it is, it'll be completely different.

 

Weeellll, aactuaally... I suppose it depends on the type of comics you read. Those European comics I read don't really do reboots and some of them have been more or less like tens of years around. Like if they try to make one, it sometimes ends up of being about skipping few albums out of 50 or something, and the continuity is a bit more forgiving in general; albums can be read without buying and reading them all or taking a degree about them. 

And even in the Shonen mangas I know about (like One Piece) they usually perform timeskips, not reboots. Maybe because they don't need to, usually the writers tend to be the same guys till the end, and there's some stuff I don't know anything about.

So, as a comics fan not reading too many US comics, I can tell you this is hardly the case, Sonic comics are rare for me being US comics and all... For me it seems like the rebooting is something US comics should be stereotypically known for, since they use it more than it should be used.

6 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Everyone here has already seen what happened if the comic was rebooted first hand given the first one we had--everything was different. We had the same staff, the same writers and artist, but we had a completely different world and many characters people really liked under Ian's pen were permanently removed to their dismay--while the Egg Bosses are a great replacement and things in a game-centric world are still interesting under this staff more than the games in some aspects, we lost the Dark (Egg) Legion, we lost dozens of characters unique to that world, we lost a great deal of intensity thanks to a massive reduction in the amount of territory Eggman has, and while thankfully this hasn't happened, we almost risked losing the Freedom Fighters for good in the only setting they can still be relevant in. We ironically got Knothole Villiage back and the Monarchy it's under after the former was completely bombed off the earth permanently in the old continuity, and the latter was transformed into a Republic instead.

So don't try to sell me this shtick that things will be the same, because after the first one happened I'd be skeptical of what would still be around if we were to have another. Even when those of us who stuck around after losing the things we loved in the old continuity, that reboot lost a number of readers as well with some considering the current continuity a shadow of it's former self (which I think is a bit unfair given how much of a bigger history the old continuity had developed over the years, but a point worth considering nonetheless). And many of us who like both the old and new continuity still want the old one back--I know I do, at least regarding a number of characters.

I couldn't agree more, really.

And somehow, this makes the chorus(ses) of "Manhattan Skyline"to play inside my head... I really don't want to lose this continuity, I just can't. I love it too much.

PleasekeeptheArchiecastwhatevertheoutcomeisandpleasekeepMr.Flynntooohpleeeeeaaaaseee!!!!

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6 hours ago, RictalRose0 said:

Even if it's not really the same. We already lost the old universe, and you just said that the new universe according to you is not the same as the old universe at all. So, why do you care? This new universe has only existed for like 3 years. And I personally prefer it over the old universe. But I won't mind losing a universe that has only lived for like 3 years. It'll be sad. But it'll read it. As long as we keep Flynn, or the writer is decent.

Besides the whole more that half a year hiatus has made me come to terms with it.

With me, being a Archie Sonic fan by far than a SEGA and one who was sad to lose the original world, what I would miss most is the the themes that it had going for it. Ideally, the central theme of Eggman already dominating the world where he has a group of rebels trying to take it back.

This formula keeps Eggman looking very powerful while allowing Sonic and his homies win victories here and there. All of these are acceptable losses as usually Eggman is right back at it when the plan has to fail.. Sometimes, he has a very strong showing of capability.

With a new reboot, or worse, new series, I'd fear losing that formula.

My next priority is loss of main characters, Freedom Fighters. I grown quite attached to them. I was thankful they survived the cutting board, originally. I don't think they'd do it again.

Next in line, is loss of other characters I liked. This one took the biggest hit, losing Mammoth Mogul, the anti-FF/Suppression Squad, some of the more important echidnas.

The final loss is loss of lore. History. Some important things stuck, like Ivo's coup (makes more sense in the new verse, since old Robotnik looked more villainous than the Classic design), but others were potentially dismantled. That we were still discovering. This is the last priority.

 

If the new comic could keep the dynamic of Dictator Robotnik vs Freedom Fighrters with the FF attached, I could probably still get into it. Though it'd hurt. Again. Without that, I just wouldn't be interested.

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I think my biggest problem with recent comics were the Freedom Fighters, the book focused too much on them, I'm talking about the SatAM characters. Like, they appear more than characters like Knuckles, Amy and even Shadow, this is why I sorta prefer the Sonic Boom team, it's not that big but it features the key members of the franchise regularly.

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With the Freedom Fighters, their position as being direct teammates to Sonic kinda allows them to appear more than Knuckles who has to guard an emerald. 

However, that's not exactly a bad thing. Knuckles' limited appearance means when he does show up, he has a damn good reason for it. 

However, Amy appears more than Knuckles as well. A lot more. But she's also a Freedom Fighter, too. 

You state that other FF appear more than Amy. Maybe when you count up each tally of the FF without individualizing them, but I really doubt Rotor, Antoine, Bunnie or Nicole appear more than her. Maybe Sally but her position as the leader allows it. 

In the end, appearances should be dictated by position in the world, not character favoritism. 

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Oh yes, the Crossovers. The worst part of the reboot by far (And I quite like the Reboot, more that the old continuity). It's like, you're making this universe to attract new readers, and right off you throw a Crossover at them that sorta requires knowledge of the previous one. And it goes on way too long and is unavoidable 'cause all the books were doing it. Decisions like that are why i'm not particulary thrilled to see Archie keep the licence. 

5 hours ago, BlueSky said:

So, as a comics fan not reading too many US comics, I can tell you this is hardly the case, Sonic comics are rare for me being US comics and all... For me it seems like the rebooting is something US comics should be stereotypically known for, since they use it more than it should be used.

12 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

That's what I was saying. That Sonic is rare for a US comic. Because it's long running, and only had ONE reboot. And I mean, sure some retconning happened here and there but it wasn't like a real reboot. Flynn was pretty determined to keep consistent with the previous writers. Penders not so much, he just sorta ignored all the Gallagher and Cesare material (even though he worked with them as well) but I can forgive that because like I said before, the early Sonic comic stuff was very light on plot and stuff.  

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3 minutes ago, RictalRose0 said:

Oh yes, the Crossovers. The worst part of the reboot by far (And I quite like the Reboot, more that the old continuity). It's like, you're making this universe to attract new readers, and right off you throw a Crossover at them that sorta requires knowledge of the previous one. And it goes on way too long and is unavoidable 'cause all the books were doing it. Decisions like that are why i'm not particulary thrilled to see Archie keep the licence. 

As far as I recall this statement fits better for Unite that to Collide, considering the fact Collide was all about game-verse collision of sorts. There wasn't that much of the knowledge required for enjoying it for that one I think.

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I still didn't enjoy it. It just felt like just a crossover for the sake of a crossover you know? It felt forced the first time and it felt even more forced the second time. And it really threw a wrench into the momentum of the reboot and Flynn's plans.

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5 hours ago, WittyUsername said:

If the new comic could keep the dynamic of Dictator Robotnik vs Freedom Fighrters with the FF attached, I could probably still get into it. Though it'd hurt. Again. Without that, I just wouldn't be interested.

This all just breaks down to a preference for a certain theme in story and attachment to characters you know? I know, i'm familiar with this 'cause this is the thing people have been saying in the Forces threads a lot. I have said this. So even though i'm personally not attached to the comic characters I can sympathyse with that feeling. I wish we got back to the Sonic Adventure era, or even Unleashed. Or something that wasn't Pontaff's flat as hell writing and "Sonic only" policy that makes it so that we never focus on other game characters again and only Sonic is allowed relevant screentime. It's frustrating.

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10 minutes ago, RictalRose0 said:

That's what I was saying. That Sonic is rare for a US comic. Because it's long running, and only had ONE reboot. And I mean, sure some retconning happened here and there but it wasn't like a real reboot. Flynn was pretty determined to keep consistent with the previous writers. Penders not so much, he just sorta ignored all the Gallagher and Cesare material (even though he worked with them as well) but I can forgive that because like I said before, the early Sonic comic stuff was very light on plot and stuff.  

Uhm, okay..? What I tried to say was that there are comic book fans not thinking every comicbook needs to have a reboot once a year! Sorry for the inconvenience, I just felt a tiny bit uneasy about that point, you know...

After all, I consider myself as an example of sorts, not really digging reboots though... :D

5 minutes ago, RictalRose0 said:

I still didn't enjoy it. It just felt like just a crossover for the sake of a crossover you know? It felt forced the first time and it felt even more forced the second time. And it really threw a wrench into the momentum of the reboot and Flynn's plans.

Funny, I don't know much about crossovers but Collide felt somewhat natural for me. And after all it was a part of that reboot-thing, part that made an actual in-story sense for me at least. Unite did do some things I think but still, Collide was more naturally flowing as far as I can tell.

But well, if it felt clunky for you, that's how it is. ^_^

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15 minutes ago, HywelAtTheMoon said:

If it just the main universe and Boom, then I'd welcome it. Could be fun to see both Knuckleses meeting up. 

But that literally wasn't allowed. That's why Sticks had to show up with Comedy and Fastidious of all characters, because the Boom counterparts weren't allowed to meet their main selves. 

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