Archie Sonic Hiatus Discussion

[RictalRose0]

Yeah same. I actually prefered when the Freedom Fighter's where their own characters, doing their own non-Sonic related stuff over when they were forced together as a team that isn't really necessary.

That's why Nicole and Sally to an extent were the only ones I could really get invested in. And Sally is more because of the stuff she had with Nicole. When she was shoehorned as a leader that no one really needs I didn't feel much for her. It just never really seemed to me like she was really a leader anyway you know? Like the narrative says she is but it doesn't feel like that and none of the characters really act like she's the leader. They always seem to know what to do on their own so what's the need for a leader?

I much prefered when she was connecting with Nicole, bonding with her and helping her though her issues. Nicole's arc was pretty cool. One of my favorites from the Reboot. I can't say much for Bunnie or Rotor because the reboot never got around to show us what they could do and what they were like (They were about to, before this happened, but ya know). Antoine is a similar case but I feel sad for him 'cause again, he got it the worst. And I liked his design. But again, he didn't get around to really show the audience what he was like and he could do.

I personally think the best Reboot characters are Sonic, Knuckles, Tails, Amy, Shadow, Nicole, Sally and Silver. In no particular order. I would say Blaze too but we only got to see her in one arc and she didn't really get to do much. Shame because she too, was just about to show up again.

The Chaotix get a special mention too, oh and the Good Ol' Dr. Eggman. I quite liked his portrayal on the reboot run. The clove sisters. Big was cool too and Cream but she didn't get to really do much other that cheer. But she was funny. Honey was pretty funny and cute too. The eggman bosses were funny.

Overall I liked a lot of the characters and the general portrayals but a lot of them didn't really get to do much. 

[BlueSky]

7 hours ago, pocket said:

Sure would be nice if there was something we could do as fans to fight to keep the SatAM and AoSTH elements around in some form, but I'm not going to kid myself, I know all too well that fans of the comic are small potatoes who aren't that vocal compared to the fans of the games that give Sega their dough.

Oh, if that's the case I can start shouting on the streets! Everytime from now on when I enter into any game shop I could start shouting how I personally consider Sega not giving damn to the fans who like stuff they don't think is 100% accurate with their view of the franchise while still trying to lick those fans in order of trying to get them to buy stuff. Though for the time being I'll keep myself doing that, but only for now. I'll consider again when I hear what this talk about new direction is all about...

"Loyal and patient fans" really? My patience has worn very thin right now. It's about time to you show that new direction before I'll start againg concentrating just in One Piece and some European stuff.

The only thing I'd find more insulting than this "radio silence" for months is the fact that if the FF would get back they'd get the Pontaff character treatment. That'd be just purely rubbing salt in the open wounds for me and I have no obligations to take it, there's the door after all.

As you can see, I'm still beyond pissed. The only good thing is I'll save around 115,20 € for a year for not getting to buy these comics anymore. (The optimal case of 12xStH and 12xSU for the year.)

All right, I kept positive and I have no regrets. That means I'll be from now on very spicy when it comes to any licking they'll perform if the comics they've planned to make ends up being entirely "pun entirely intended" stuff.

Oh please don't tell me they're planning on making Pontaff do the comics for some reason or another... please no...

Fortunately I still have the comics I've already bought, better keep those in safe.

[RedFox99]

3 hours ago, RictalRose0 said:

Yeah same. I actually prefered when the Freedom Fighter's where their own characters, doing their own non-Sonic related stuff over when they were forced together as a team that isn't really necessary.

That's why Nicole and Sally to an extent were the only ones I could really get invested in. And Sally is more because of the stuff she had with Nicole. When she was shoehorned as a leader that no one really needs I didn't feel much for her. It just never really seemed to me like she was really a leader anyway you know? Like the narrative says she is but it doesn't feel like that and none of the characters really act like she's the leader. They always seem to know what to do on their own so what's the need for a leader?

I much prefered when she was connecting with Nicole, bonding with her and helping her though her issues. Nicole's arc was pretty cool. One of my favorites from the Reboot. I can't say much for Bunnie or Rotor because the reboot never got around to show us what they could do and what they were like (They were about to, before this happened, but ya know). Antoine is a similar case but I feel sad for him 'cause again, he got it the worst. And I liked his design. But again, he didn't get around to really show the audience what he was like and he could do.

I personally think the best Reboot characters are Sonic, Knuckles, Tails, Amy, Shadow, Nicole, Sally and Silver. In no particular order. I would say Blaze too but we only got to see her in one arc and she didn't really get to do much. Shame because she too, was just about to show up again.

The Chaotix get a special mention too, oh and the Good Ol' Dr. Eggman. I quite liked his portrayal on the reboot run. The clove sisters. Big was cool too and Cream but she didn't get to really do much other that cheer. But she was funny. Honey was pretty funny and cute too. The eggman bosses were funny.

Overall I liked a lot of the characters and the general portrayals but a lot of them didn't really get to do much. 

At least Blaze finished off Captain Metal and helped bring Amy, Cream and Cheese back to their world so she at least did something. Maybe in the new comic she'll appear more since it might focus more on the game characters.

[RictalRose0]

I don't know. SEGA seems to have some special mandates regarding Blaze and her dimension. I think I once read that Flynn wanted to use Blaze more but SEGA was particulary special about her and her world. I hope they ease up on that stuff if they make a new comic.

[RedFox99]

9 minutes ago, RictalRose0 said:

I don't know. SEGA seems to have some special mandates regarding Blaze and her dimension. I think I once read that Flynn wanted to use Blaze more but SEGA was particulary special about her and her world. I hope they ease up on that stuff if they make a new comic.

To be honest, some of their mandates come off as questionable.

[RictalRose0]

All the mandates I know are these. And what I know about how they seem too work.

-Sonic isn't allowed to cry. It's not what his character is

-Sonic can't lose agaisn't Eggman dramastically, and if he does, he has to eventually win. Like if he loses in one issue, he has to win by the next.

-Game Characters can't change outfits. There might be more to this. Can they use alternate game outfits? Game Accesories? No one knows. It might just mean "Don't change their iconic look too much"

-No romance between game characters. And OC characters can't romance with game characters (but OCs among themselves is free game). Subtle stuff between game characters might be allowed? Amy seems to be the only one allowed to show an open crush. I don't know if Rouge and Knuckles can (they sorta had it in the games but that was a long time ago and I haven't see them really flirt in the comics ever, might not be allowed)

-Game characters can't age

-No adding to backstories if it's not in the games. This more specifically is "No parents or family unless they appear in the games" since the comic seemed to change Silver's future very freely. 

-Cream is a pacifist and thus can't have an active combat role. There might be a way to work around this but I don't know

-Only Male Hedgehogs can have superforms. Overclocked Nicole was allowed in because she's technically not super. She's "Overclocked" and didn't use the Emeralds.

-If a story is made where an OC or several are the main focus, it must include a game character as a side character.

-There's some special stuff regarding Blaze, Eggman Nega and some other game characters and stuff related to Sol Dimension and Sonic Rush. It's not know specifically what SEGA means by this.

There might be more but I don't know the full scope of them. And this is just based on what I read of what Flynn has shared about the inner workings of the mandates over the years and my own observations. 

Personally although this might seem limiting, a lot of these were made to prevent stuff like what happened in the Pre-Reboot before Flynn to happen again. They don't want another Penders basically. I think the Year Later Arc stuff might be why SEGA started enforcing these harder. But they seem to have eased up on them. Still, don't expect to ever see crazy stuff like Sonic getting his smack on with every fucking woman in a 600 mile radious, Knuckles is Echidna Jesus, the game characters being side characters to the writer's OCs, etc.

And I think a good writer can always find their way around them. As Flynn and Co. have shown. I think the comic is better this way to be honest. Though some are silly, like the Male Hedgehogs only can have Superforms and the stuff with Blaze and Sol.

[RedFox99]

7 minutes ago, RictalRose0 said:

All the mandates I know are these. And what I know about how they seem too work.

-Sonic isn't allowed to cry. It's not what his character is

-Sonic can't lose agaisn't Eggman dramastically, and if he does, he has to eventually win. Like if he loses in one issue, he has to win by the next.

-Game Characters can't change outfits. There might be more to this. Can they use alternate game outfits? Game Accesories? No one knows. It might just mean "Don't change their iconic look too much"

-No romance between game characters. And OC characters can't romance with game characters (but OCs among themselves is free game). Subtle stuff between game characters might be allowed? Amy seems to be the only one allowed to show an open crush. I don't know if Rouge and Knuckles can (they sorta had it in the games but that was a long time ago and I haven't see them really flirt in the comics ever, might not be allowed)

-Game characters can't age

-No adding to backstories if it's not in the games. This more specifically is "No parents or family unless they appear in the games" since the comic seemed to change Silver's future very freely. 

-Cream is a pacifist and thus can't have an active combat role. There might be a way to work around this but I don't know

-Only Male Hedgehogs can have superforms. Overclocked Nicole was allowed in because she's technically not super. She's "Overclocked" and didn't use the Emeralds.

-If a story is made where an OC or several are the main focus, it must include a game character as a side character.

-There's some special stuff regarding Blaze, Eggman Nega and some other game characters and stuff related to Sol Dimension and Sonic Rush. It's not know specifically what SEGA means by this.

There might be more but I don't know the full scope of them. And this is just based on what I read of what Flynn has shared about the inner workings of the mandates over the years and my own observations. Personally although this might seem limiting, a lot of these were made to prevent stuff like what happened in the Pre-Reboot before Flynn to happen again. They don't want another Penders basically. I think the Year Later Arc stuff might be why SEGA started enforcing these harder. But they seem to have eased up on them. Still, don't expect to ever see crazy stuff like Sonic getting his smack on with every fucking woman in a 600 mile radious, Knuckles is Echidna Jesus, the game characters being side characters to the writer's OCs, etc.

I guess the whole Penders argument makes sense.

[SonicComicFanboy]

You know if SEGA is so worried about the FF &/or OC's overshadowing Sonic & Co. I guess another middleground would just to be give the FF their own book.  The Sonic book focuses on the SEGA cast fighting Robotnik, Metal Sonic, The Zeti, Infinite, Shadow & G.U.N. , etc.  And the Freedom Fighter book has Nagus, Wendy & the Witchcarters, the Battle Birds, etc. With the two only mentioning each other in passing and maybe crossing over for bigger stories once in a blue moon as needed.  That way SEGA could get what they want & long time fans would still something to enjoy as well.

 

 

Also yes some of SEGA's mandates for the book post SGW do seem a bit vauge or silly.  Hopefully they will play nicer with whoever gets the liscense next. 

[Speedi]

1 hour ago, RictalRose0 said:

All the mandates I know are these. And what I know about how they seem too work.

-Sonic isn't allowed to cry. It's not what his character is

-Sonic can't lose agaisn't Eggman dramastically, and if he does, he has to eventually win. Like if he loses in one issue, he has to win by the next.

-Game Characters can't change outfits. There might be more to this. Can they use alternate game outfits? Game Accesories? No one knows. It might just mean "Don't change their iconic look too much"

-No romance between game characters. And OC characters can't romance with game characters (but OCs among themselves is free game). Subtle stuff between game characters might be allowed? Amy seems to be the only one allowed to show an open crush. I don't know if Rouge and Knuckles can (they sorta had it in the games but that was a long time ago and I haven't see them really flirt in the comics ever, might not be allowed)

-Game characters can't age

-No adding to backstories if it's not in the games. This more specifically is "No parents or family unless they appear in the games" since the comic seemed to change Silver's future very freely. 

-Cream is a pacifist and thus can't have an active combat role. There might be a way to work around this but I don't know

-Only Male Hedgehogs can have superforms. Overclocked Nicole was allowed in because she's technically not super. She's "Overclocked" and didn't use the Emeralds.

-If a story is made where an OC or several are the main focus, it must include a game character as a side character.

-There's some special stuff regarding Blaze, Eggman Nega and some other game characters and stuff related to Sol Dimension and Sonic Rush. It's not know specifically what SEGA means by this.

There might be more but I don't know the full scope of them. And this is just based on what I read of what Flynn has shared about the inner workings of the mandates over the years and my own observations. 

Personally although this might seem limiting, a lot of these were made to prevent stuff like what happened in the Pre-Reboot before Flynn to happen again. They don't want another Penders basically. I think the Year Later Arc stuff might be why SEGA started enforcing these harder. But they seem to have eased up on them. Still, don't expect to ever see crazy stuff like Sonic getting his smack on with every fucking woman in a 600 mile radious, Knuckles is Echidna Jesus, the game characters being side characters to the writer's OCs, etc.

And I think a good writer can always find their way around them. As Flynn and Co. have shown. I think the comic is better this way to be honest. Though some are silly, like the Male Hedgehogs only can have Superforms and the stuff with Blaze and Sol.

Yeah, and in a recent interview Ian Flynn said that the mandates didn't really limit his creative freedom at all and seemed like common sense after what happened.

[doctorbenMD]

At 41:20 on my twitch stream last night ( https://www.twitch.tv/videos/160734338 ), my friend and I touched a bit on the cancellation before we started talking about our SDCC predictions (before that, we discuss Spider-Man Homecoming, D23, and other random junk we like, but I figured I'd let you all know the mark where we talk about ArchieSonic). 

[RictalRose0]

Also like I've said about Backstories, it just seems to limit to parents and stuff and not changing lore that is very important to the core of the game characters. Trivial stuff doesn't seem to matter. Like Amy's dress, in the comics Honey made it for her but in the games it doesn't need an explanation. Does that count as changing a game character's backstory? Yes but it's just a trivial thing so it doesn't matter. Also they allowed a lot of stuff with Silver, so who knows exactly how this works.

Also on the subject of Honey and the other characters who are game characters but haven't been used in the games since forever and will most likely never show up again in games, where do they stand on this? Do the mandates affect them fully or what?  The Hooligans and Honey specifically, what does SEGA consider them? 

 

[Your Vest Friend]

They're pretty much fair game and aren't under mandate...bar ones which limit their connection to active game characters. 

[RictalRose0]

1 hour ago, SonicComicFanboy said:

You know if SEGA is so worried about the FF &/or OC's overshadowing Sonic & Co. I guess another middleground would just to be give the FF their own book.  The Sonic book focuses on the SEGA cast fighting Robotnik, Metal Sonic, The Zeti, Infinite, Shadow & G.U.N. , etc.  And the Freedom Fighter book has Nagus, Wendy & the Witchcarters, the Battle Birds, etc. With the two only mentioning each other in passing and maybe crossing over for bigger stories once in a blue moon as needed.  That way SEGA could get what they want & long time fans would still something to enjoy as well.

 

 

Also yes some of SEGA's mandates for the book post SGW do seem a bit vauge or silly.  Hopefully they will play nicer with whoever gets the liscense next. 

Well Sally did use to have her own book back in the 90's but it got cancelled pretty early on due to low sales. And most importantly, because it was Penders and Penders can't write female characters for shit and it was the 90's so, unless you were the second coming of jesus in terms of writing, female lead comicbooks were very hard to get an active readership on. 

I wonder if a full Freedom Fighter's book would have fared any better? Under Penders, I really doubt it. Even Bollers. Flynn? Maybe... But it wouldn't have gone for too long me thinks. 

[RedFox99]

1 hour ago, SonicComicFanboy said:

You know if SEGA is so worried about the FF &/or OC's overshadowing Sonic & Co. I guess another middleground would just to be give the FF their own book.  The Sonic book focuses on the SEGA cast fighting Robotnik, Metal Sonic, The Zeti, Infinite, Shadow & G.U.N. , etc.  And the Freedom Fighter book has Nagus, Wendy & the Witchcarters, the Battle Birds, etc. With the two only mentioning each other in passing and maybe crossing over for bigger stories once in a blue moon as needed.  That way SEGA could get what they want & long time fans would still something to enjoy as well.

 

 

Also yes some of SEGA's mandates for the book post SGW do seem a bit vauge or silly.  Hopefully they will play nicer with whoever gets the liscense next. 

That is a smart idea. Quick someone spread the idea

[SonicComicFanboy]

The sally book was just a mini-series to begin with.  But yea a FF side book could work, if they are worried about sales just cut risk by making it a bi-monthly release with only 6 issues a year like IDW does for WD Comics & Stories.

 

Also Ian James Quarterly creator of the new Cartoon Network series OK KO: Lets Be Heroes posted on twitter his love for the comic and how it helped inspire him to start drawing & telling his own stories.  Its nice to know even though the book is gone its legacy will live on in not only its fans but those it inspired to pursue carrers in animation & comics.

 

[RedFox99]

19 minutes ago, RictalRose0 said:

Well Sally did use to have her own book back in the 90's but it got cancelled pretty early on due to low sales. And most importantly, because it was Penders and Penders can't write female characters for shit and it was the 90's so, unless you were the second coming of jesus in terms of writing, female lead comicbooks were very hard to get an active readership on. 

I wonder if a full Freedom Fighter's book would have fared any better? Under Penders, I really doubt it. Even Bollers. Flynn? Maybe... But it wouldn't have gone for too long me thinks. 

Yeah maybe a spin-off series written by Evan Stanley and other female writers?

[Borvoc]

2 hours ago, RictalRose0 said:

Personally although this might seem limiting, a lot of these were made to prevent stuff like what happened in the Pre-Reboot before Flynn to happen again. They don't want another Penders basically. I think the Year Later Arc stuff might be why SEGA started enforcing these harder. But they seem to have eased up on them. Still, don't expect to ever see crazy stuff like Sonic getting his smack on with every fucking woman in a 600 mile radious, Knuckles is Echidna Jesus, the game characters being side characters to the writer's OCs, etc.

And I think a good writer can always find their way around them. As Flynn and Co. have shown. I think the comic is better this way to be honest. Though some are silly, like the Male Hedgehogs only can have Superforms and the stuff with Blaze and Sol.

Interesting mandate summary, and I agree. Ian doesn't seem to let any of that get in the way of telling good stories, and a lot of it sounds like good common sense to help us avoid Super Saiyan Tails, etc. I'm not super familiar with the older comics, but Jesus Knuckles actually sounds interesting in a non-canonical sort of way.

[RictalRose0]

I myself have only read a few bits. The terror bits. The stuff about Knuckle's dad microwaving him, the hilarious panel with all the Knuckle's copypastes and yes, Knuckle Jesus. Oh and the Year Laters Arc. Fucking christ. Sonic has a midlife crisis, featuring Desperate Housewives of Mobius, Echidna the Jesus, and everyone that Penders doesn't care about might as well be dead on his timeiline. 

[Borvoc]

I kind of want to read this now. Let me know if anyone has any recommended issue numbers for Jesus Knuckles.

http://archiesonic.wikia.com/wiki/Locke#Background_Information

Quote

The Tumblr blog "A Moment of Archie Sonic", which pokes fun at the comic's more questionable artwork, had a meme of sorts concerning Locke irradiating Knuckles: "Had a bad dream; better microwave the baby." This may be the source of where Ian Flynn referred to Knuckles' old backstory being the "Hot Pocket of Destiny".

Oh, man. This is good stuff.

Edit: Wait. There was really a Kneecaps the Echidna?

[RictalRose0]

Yes there was. And Scottish Knuckles. And Jamaica Knuckles (I mean they kinda hinted at this in the games but jesus Penders, you can't just put a rasta hat on an Echidna and call it a day)

[Your Vest Friend]

If you're talking about Athair, he was the one Echidna who wasn't just Knuckles with extra doodads, and had something unique going for him before Penders got hold of him (he was Gallagher's creation). 

[Borvoc]

@RictalRose0 You sure about dat? I was born on an island in dah heavens, mahn.

@VEDJ-F Ah. So a different Knuckles from normal Knuckles.

I find this all so interesting, but I also feel that I'm derailing this thread. Sorry if that's the case.

[RictalRose0]

Athair was the one that told Tails about his "destiny" right? Apparently Tails destiny was to be a goofy-ass furry hulk.

[Borvoc]

Thus tying back into what I said about the mandates making sense for helping to avoid things like Super Saiyan tails. Boom. It all circles back around to where we started from.

[RictalRose0]

I want someone to one day make an edit of Titan Tails saying "I AM THE FUCKING STRONG" like that one JoJo edit.