New Sonic Forces Gameplay teased on twitch.tv (link and screenhots here)

[Nepenthe]

It's not even just the difference in perceived quality.

It's the difference in what you believe each style of game should try to accomplish.

Forces could have the same gameplay, locations, CaC implementation, and nostalgia pandering up the wazoo we've seen so far but be polished and implemented in such a way that it was an actual contender for something, and I'd still be happier with just a fuckin' SA1 remake instead.

[Kellan]

I really love that the characters are going to be talking during the levels. I always found it weird when games would have their characters go through some fantastic experience, and remain silent the whole time. It's like, "Dude, you just saw something explode (or something)! Why aren't you reacting to that!" I always thought that the in-level dialogue in Sonic Heroes made the characters feel more real. When they saw a giant mushroom, they would comment on the giant mushroom, because a giant mushroom is something that's conversation-worthy. I like it.

[Bowbowis]

Can we all just take a second to appreciate the fact that Knuckles just used a five syllable word and it wasn't followed by "Ha ha! Knuckles messed up the pronunciation because he's a stupid moron!" or "Ha ha! Knuckles somehow knows this word despite being a stupid moron, that's weird!" it just passed without comment, almost as if Knuckles is an individual of reasonable intelligence from whom such vocabulary is not unexpected.

...

God has the bar for characterization been set low.

[Tara]

1 minute ago, Nepenthe said:

It's not even just the difference in perceived quality.

It's the difference in what you believe each style of game should try to accomplish.

Forces could have the same gameplay and locations and nostalgia pandering up the wazoo but be polished and implemented in such a way that it was an actual contender for something, and I'd still be happier with just a fuckin' SA1 remake instead.

That's basically also what I was getting at.  This might prove to be a controversial statement, but even as polarizing as it was, I prefer Sonic 4 to what I'm seeing so far in Forces, and I don't even particularly like Sonic 4.  It was still shallow nostalgia pandering, but it was executed much better than what we've seen from this game so far.  As long as products have even the slightest of differences, people are going to have preferences.  So when I see posts that are like "Why do you people have opposing opinions on things that are roughly similar in concept" I have to wonder how far removed from everyday conversation one must be to not understand this concept. XP

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, Bowbowis said:

Can we all just take a second to appreciate the fact that Knuckles just used a five syllable word and it wasn't followed by "Ha ha! Knuckles messed up the pronunciation because he's a stupid moron!" or "Ha ha! Knuckles somehow knows this word despite being a stupid moron, that's weird!" it just passed without comment, almost as if Knuckles is an individual of reasonable intelligence from whom such vocabulary is not unexpected.

...

God has the bar for characterization been set low.

It's sad that I actually noticed that he was talking like a normal person there too. Before anyone pointed it out.

The idea of pointing it out myself made me feel sad though.

[Kuzu]

8 minutes ago, Tara said:

I honestly grow a little bored with the posts and potshots that basically amount to "I don't get why Sonic fans are lampooning upon a game for executing a concept poorly, while praising a game for executing the same thing properly."  It's like... you have your preference in fast food places that sell the same junk, right?  You have preferences for different style of clothes, even if they're the same article of clothing, right?  You have preferences for things that deliver a similar concept, but with notably different results, right?  That's how anything works.

In the Sonic fanbase, there's no such thing as preferences and differences. Just myopic opinions.

[Celestia]

I still think people exaggerate how bad Knuckles' portrayal is in the modern games (worst I can say is that they don't let him back up his taunts towards Sonic with actions), they never stooped to that leve-

Oh right, I forgot about Boom.

[Diogenes]

4 minutes ago, Bowbowis said:

Can we all just take a second to appreciate the fact that Knuckles just used a five syllable word and it wasn't followed by "Ha ha! Knuckles messed up the pronunciation because he's a stupid moron!" or "Ha ha! Knuckles somehow knows this word despite being a stupid moron, that's weird!" it just passed without comment, almost as if Knuckles is an individual of reasonable intelligence from whom such vocabulary is not unexpected.

...

God has the bar for characterization been set low.

You are aware that Boom and the main series are different things, right.

[Kuzu]

3 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

You are aware that Boom and the main series are different things, right.

To be fair, Sega is doing their damnest to make him more bumbling. 

[Chris Knopps]

5 hours ago, Tracker_TD said:

Rehashing the Egg Dragoon feels dumb.

In Mania, we've got the Death Egg Robot; but there it feels like it's used because it can provide a fun fight with neat mechanics, and because it's hilarious juxtaposition. 

This feels like they brought back an old boss just because they had the assets lying around from Generations. Like it plays differently sure, but it doesn't look particularly novel. It's just... eh. 

Well, this is a 3D/2D game with boost included. They have to save money in whatever way possible to afford what they're doing since SEGA likely gives Sonic Team way, WAY less money to work with now after the past few games. Their budget has likely been dwindling away over the years so it wouldn't be a surprise if Forces is being made on penny change, hence all the assets being reused, from props to models, enemies and bosses, how you have a million of the exact same Egg Pawn enemy in the avatar stages, etc.

It's cheap thrills in every sense basically. Sonic Team doesn't have the cash, and likely lacks the manpower to do another Unleashed again, and based on how dialogue heavy this game seems to be, that will eat up a massive chunk of the budget too if they're paying a bunch of different actors to potentially continuously speak in every other stage.

This game is likely trying to go for AAA on an almost indie-level budget. Of course to most this would be a drastic exaggeration, but especially after how cheaply it seems Generations, the 20th anniversary game was treated, Forces is several steps beneath that despite its potential length to me. Plus not to mention how stages like Park Avenue likely eat up so much of the budget as well on top of all the voice acting...

They're likely putting too much in specific places and much too little in others. The way it looks it seems like they're trying to do the impossible with cash that just isn't there.

[Sean]

The avatar version of Green Hill looks insane. The level overall looks a lot better than the first glimpse we saw of it a month or so ago.

[Zippo]

Game is being streamed on Gameslice right now. 

[Nepenthe]

It's been so long since Knuckles has been relevant that you can forgive people for getting Boom mixed up with the Sega universe when it comes to the cast's characterization.

[Tara]

Plus, Sonic Boom honestly doesn't feel that different from Pontac and Graff's usual outings with the character, so aside from aesthetics and location, I don't see any reason why it can't be used as a basis of comparison.

[Multikaris]

1 hour ago, Acoolsonicfan said:

Why all the red? Is sonic in hell?

With all these ideas together, I wonder how you'll transition from level to level.

Actually;

 

"They complained it's not edgy enough! What kind of quick fix do we need?"

"Let's add a tint to the scene!"

[A super No.1 washedupgamer]

3 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Well, this is a 3D/2D game with boost included. They have to save money in whatever way possible to afford what they're doing since SEGA likely gives Sonic Team way, WAY less money to work with now after the past few games. Their budget has likely been dwindling away over the years so it wouldn't be a surprise if Forces is being made on penny change, hence all the assets being reused, from props to models, enemies and bosses, how you have a million of the exact same Egg Pawn enemy in the avatar stages, etc.

It's cheap thrills in every sense basically. Sonic Team doesn't have the cash, and likely lacks the manpower to do another Unleashed again, and based on how dialogue heavy this game seems to be, that will eat up a massive chunk of the budget too if they're paying a bunch of different actors to potentially continuously speak in every other stage.

This game is likely trying to go for AAA on an almost indie-level budget. Of course to most this would be a drastic exaggeration, but especially after how cheaply it seems Generations, the 20th anniversary game was treated, Forces is several steps beneath that despite its potential length to me. Plus not to mention how stages like Park Avenue likely eat up so much of the budget as well on top of all the voice acting...

They're likely putting too much in specific places and much too little in others. The way it looks it seems like they're trying to do the impossible with cash that just isn't there.

I suspected the same thing. It's like their trying their best to dress this up as a triple a title without creating very many new assets.

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, Nepenthe said:

It's been so long since Knuckles has been relevant that you can forgive people for getting Boom mixed up with the Sega universe when it comes to the casts' characterization.

Yeah. The complaints about Knuckles's state of mind was an ever present thing long before Boom made its way onto the scene. Boom was just the culmination of what people were anticipating he'd end up being. Thankfully, that culmination never truly ended up in the main games themselves. Lord knows what they're doing with him now is bad enough. 

And I don't even hate Boom Knuckles. When he's in Boom he's virtually harmless to me. And I did feel like some of the complaints about Knuckles being an idiot were exaggerated to some degree when it came to a few specific things. But there's always been some sort of issue that's gone unattended to with him regardless.

[Shadowlax]

7 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

It's been so long since Knuckles has been relevant that you can forgive people for getting Boom mixed up with the Sega universe when it comes to the cast's characterization.

Also to be fair, they did approve and put that out there. Like the comic book versions. They weren't the same, but they did approve of the littany of ... almost franchise ruining horshit they had their characters do for... years on end. Its not the same, but someone said that's an ok representation of that character at one point in time. So depending on you feel about boom, that's either a plus or a minus

[Diogenes]

7 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

It's been so long since Knuckles has been relevant that you can forgive people for getting Boom mixed up with the Sega universe when it comes to the cast's characterization.

Nah, I give people no credit for not being able to separate the two and causing a stink over things they only imagine are happening.

Yeah. The complaints about Knuckles's state of mind was an ever present thing long before Boom made its way onto the scene.

Yeah and they were always pretty bullshit because Knuckles was always kinda dumb.

[Celestia]

Looks like the air boost doesn't send you very far before you start falling. Nice change in my opinion, it made some sections in Generations way too easy cuz you could just fly over it all (sometimes even on your first run of the act!).

edit: In fact, looking at it again, it almost looks like the air boost is diagonal??

[Nepenthe]

Just now, Diogenes said:

Nah, I give people no credit for not being able to separate the two and causing a stink over things they only imagine are happening.

These are the jokes, kid.

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, BlueParadox said:

Here's the gameplay of the 2D Section of Park Avenue (Modern):

 

Shadow's traveling above the city at high speed? Is he in his Super form or did one of the Death Egg Robots grab him and toss his ass clear across the skyline?

 

[Diogenes]

Just now, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Shadow's traveling above the city at high speed? Is he in his Super form or did one of the Death Egg Robots grab him and toss his ass clear across the skyline?

Rocket shoes.

[Nepenthe]

He has hover shoes, warping abilities, and Chaos Control.

[Chili Dawg]

If this game was all modern Sonic, I'd be fine. A bit underwhelmed perhaps, but fine.

Everything else though, get it away from me.